Battery/ Electrical Probelms

Tar Heel · 12-31-2008, 03:01 PM

I have a 17' whaler, about 1975 Montauk, with a 1995 90 horse Yamaha. The guy I bought it from about 5 years ago had done a nice job of overhaulinig the boat's electrical/wiring. Last summer, I was having trouble with the cranking battery. It would not turn the motor over enough to crank the motor. I tried cleaning the terminals,and then bought a new battery, and had the same problems, including very hot terminals--when I went to check the terminals last weekend, they were very hot. I have been jump starting my motor with a portable battey charger, and I don't think the terminals (corosion) are the problem, as I have cleaned/lubed them and the connections look good. When I hook a charger to the battery, it says fully charged. Probably a wiring issue? Any thoughts? Maybe I just need to take it in, but I want to use it this weekend, and using the jump starter all the time is not only getting old, but is also a bit dicey this time of year on the lower Columbia!

lurking_out_loud · 12-31-2008, 03:57 PM

Hot wire/terminals indicate a resistance issue. At first take I'd look at the size (gauge) of wire used between the positive terminal of the battery and your starter. Same with negative, but this can be smaller than the positive depending on the system. It may be too small for the load. Next question, are the terminals hot only when you are trying to start the boat or are they hot all the time?

-lol

Highmark · 12-31-2008, 04:39 PM

if the wiring is getting hot, when you are starting or trying to start it.
just where is it getting hot. at the starter, by the battery, where?
I would say you have a loose connections some where by where it's getting hot. Thats a starting point. Check all connections first. Corrosion will do it, but a loose - wire is more likely the problem.

HM

Tar Heel · 01-01-2009, 09:15 AM

The terminal connectors seem to be clean and snug, but I'll check some of the less obvious connections and the wire size. the only area I noticed heat was the connectors to the battery, and it was sizzling to the touch--melted through my decoy gloves! Maybe I need to clean it again and tighten. I have been told by one fellow ifisher he has to clean his terminals on every use, so maybe that's it--although it looked good to me. I'll give these tips a try when Im can get to the baot, and see what happens. thanks!

stupenny5 · 01-01-2009, 09:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tar Heel

The terminal connectors seem to be clean and snug, but I'll check some of the less obvious connections and the wire size. the only area I noticed heat was the connectors to the battery, and it was sizzling to the touch--melted through my decoy gloves! Maybe I need to clean it again and tighten. I have been told by one fellow ifisher he has to clean his terminals on every use, so maybe that's it--although it looked good to me. I'll give these tips a try when Im can get to the baot, and see what happens. thanks!

I had an issue like this in an old ford truck. It was the starter and loose connections.

Tar Heel · 01-01-2009, 11:40 AM

The starter on a 90hp yamaha--is that possibly a problem? "I don't know jack about motors, and wondered if it could be a starter or alternator issue, bit not sure i even have one. since it says it's has a charge, probably wiring/connection issue.
thanks again. i'll let you know how it turns out..

Highmark · 01-01-2009, 12:02 PM

OK Is the wire the + that's getting hot or - wire. and how old are the wires that are getting hot. I think you said someone redid the wiring last summer. And are they the right size wires for starter application. Most OB engines have a Magneto on the fly wheel not an alternator.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tar Heel

The starter on a 90hp yamaha--is that possibly a problem? "I don't know jack about motors, and wondered if it could be a starter or alternator issue, bit not sure i even have one. since it says it's has a charge, probably wiring/connection issue.
thanks again. i'll let you know how it turns out..

Lurp · 01-01-2009, 03:14 PM

If it is getting hot at the battery maybe the terminals on the ends of the battery cables are not on tight
Are they the ring type or the automotive type?
corrosion can go under wiring insulation and cause problems or the ends were not crimped on very good and have worked loose from vibration
I always use ring terminals that are open all the way thru where the wire attaches, crimp them then heat them with a small torch and solder them after they cool I put a coating of boat rubber (comes in tubes like silicone at your local marine supply) then 2 layers of heat shrink the type that a little sealer oozes out when it shrinks up tight

GOOD LUCK

lurking_out_loud · 01-01-2009, 08:12 PM

Heat is from resistance as stated earlier. a bad connection, corrosion, or undersized cable are all potential causes for your troubles. If the cables are not "tinned" they can corrode and increase resistance to your starter. The end result is heat. Another potential issue could be a bad battery cell or under rated battery trying to supply power to a starter with a very high draw. Your starter could also be part of the problem if the solenoid is drawing more power than typical.

Start with the battery cable and check if the ends are green. Green copper is bad. If the wire is silver, scrape some of it to see if there is copper underneath. Aluminum wire on your boat is doubly bad. If the cables to your starter are smaller than your little finger, check the size marked on the cable jacket. Smaller than 4awg, (larger number the smaller the cable) is again a bad deal. From there, get your battery checked then the engine in that order.

One more thing going back to the rewire done last year, disconnect ALL of the other cables connected to your battery other than your starter, start the engine and check again for heat. You may have another issue that is manifesting itself through your starter or engines electrical/grounding/bonding system.

Good luck.

-lol

fishkisser · 01-01-2009, 11:55 PM

Highmark · 01-02-2009, 04:54 AM

I agree with what has been said here.. But which wire is getting hot.
that is the problem side of the wiring. start there..

HM

fishkisser · 01-02-2009, 07:16 AM

In the original post it sounded like both ***. and neg. wires ...
But one will be hotter than the other ... Sometimes the internal contacts for the solenoid on the starter get corroded and will do the same thing ...

lurking_out_loud · 01-02-2009, 07:38 AM

[quote=Tar Heel;2334878]The terminal connectors seem to be clean and snug, but I'll check some of the less obvious connections and the wire size. the only area I noticed heat was the connectors to the battery, and it was sizzling to the touch--melted through my decoy gloves!

Looking at this again, my guess from this statement is that if the wire is cool to the touch the wire is probably fine. You have another issue to identify. Look at the terminal lug and make sure its pretty hefty. Compare it with the one connecting your car battery to your car starter. If it is smaller, get it replaced with the proper sized lug. I'd also check to see if your battery is hosed. You may have a cell that's bad casuing the heating issues you have found. Then its back to the starter solenoid and the rest of the issues mentioned above.

-lol

Lead Bouncer · 01-02-2009, 09:27 AM

You need an ohm meter. You can poke through the insulation to check the route. Resistance is a problem because it feeds itself. I would not over look the possibility that your cables are backwards. No voltage is allowed when doing an ohm test or you will blow the fuse in the meter.

Pagorits · 01-02-2009, 09:58 AM

There are two connections at each battery post. One connects the 'clamp' to the post, and the other connection is the cable to the 'clamp'. If the connection is getting hot, it's possible the cable(s) are bad. Install one of those replacement battery connectors and if this helps replace the cable with new ones.
All your wiring has worked satisfactorily for a few years so you should be OK there.

uhmw · 01-02-2009, 10:14 AM

I had a problem with very simular symptoms on a 100 hrs merc out board. It turned out to be the wires that run to the motor from the battery . The wires had become compromized because they were bending over time as the out board was turned back and forth. I had ruled that out befor because the wire damage wasnt evident(wire had continuity when cold) till the motor ran for a bit or I had to crank it more than once or twice and the wires got hot the problems would start with the starter. When it was cold it would crank but then eventually the starter would simply get hot and have no cranking power even when cold. New wires fixed the problem. After I bought a new starter and a new battery

good luck.

Lurp · 01-02-2009, 09:09 PM

After reading the post by uhmw something else came to mind
Have you followed all the wiring looking for a spot that has rubbed thru the insulation on your wiring causing a dead short

Tar Heel · 01-03-2009, 01:43 PM

Thanks, fellow ifishers! This should give me plenty work with, and hopefully keep me out of the water for another month til' the end of duck season. I hope to have a chance to get to it tomorrow--if it's not raining. Thanks again for all the helpful tips! ifish, what a resource.