Harvey Dories

[Tinman]

I'm thinking of getting a dory for surf launching down at Pacific City for tuna, halibut and salmon. Are the Harvey dories good boats? Are they all glass, or do they have wooden stringers that might be rotten? Are they strong and trustworthy considering how old they are? Are there any around for sale?

Any help would be much appreciated.

[Mr. Fisherman]

Tinman, I very nearly purchased a Harvey Dory with similar intent.. All that fishing space...
Very worthy boats and they are well known at PC...
They have a wooden frame and you always have to be cautious about buying an old used boat with a wood core/frame. I did look at one at Harvey Marine that had a "spongy" spot in the floor. Paul said he would replace that section for about $500.
There are some very attractive prices out there, just know what you are getting into.
You might want to try riding with a few beach launching dorys before you commit to purchasing one for this purpose. There is at least one charter that launches off the beach. They have a joy ride trip that is cheaper than a fishing trip if you just want to check it out.
I have not had the privilage but hear that the pucker factor can be high. Not the sort of thing I would just head out and try with my newly purchased boat for the first time...

I hope you find what you are lookng for and that this helped some...

[ 10-07-2003, 12:47 AM: Message edited by: Mr. Fisherman ]

[fish assassin]

Harvey Dories are *very* narrow across the bottom. There are plusses and minuses
to this set up. On the plus side, they sit lower in the water so you don't slip
down wind as much when you present your side to the wind. On the minus side,
they are more "rocky". You certainly don't want to have 3 big guys standing on
one side of the boat! Also, if you run out-riggers you will find that when you
try to pull one of your wires that the boat will turn in the opposite direction.
Wider is better for this. A wider bottom on the boat will also be more sea-worthy
(take bigger and meaner oceans). :shocked:

Harvey Dories do not have very much glass over thier balsa wood (yes, balsa wood!)
cores. The cores are not soaked in resin before the glass is layed. Therefore, every
little breach in the glass shell lets water make contact with the balsa core and balsa
*really* soaks up water! That is why the boat you were looking at has a spongy
feeling spot in the bottom.

If you want a glass boat, it is my suggestion that you look for an old "Crown Dory",
built by Royal Fiberglass in Valley Junction. I don't think they make these boats
any more, but the building materials were better (they soaked the wood core in resin
before assembley) and they used more glass ... They are also wider, more stable and
a much more comfortable ride.

Personally, I would want a wood boat with a fiberglass shell. Preferably with
a 5 or 5.5 foot bottom (like Fish Assassin has) or possibly one of the aluminum dories
built by Maxweld.

Good luck in your search! There is no fishery in the world that is as exciting as
the Dory fishery out of PC! :grin: :grin: :grin:

FWIW ... JMHO ...

-assAssin-

[edsr]

Tinman - What FA said. The older Crown dories have a good reputation, also, Terry Learned of Cloverdale, near, Pac. Cty is still making a very good quality dory and they will finish, or, I think deliver a hull for you to finish, i.e. glass, paint, and interior to suit. Go to the dory page - http://home.att.net/~td2evers/ Lots of good info there and also a link to Learned.

What kind of a budget you are working with?

A very thorough inspection of any older dory is critical, paying special attention to the areas that collect and hold water. Transoms, deck joints, and hidden crevices are the usual suspect problem places. Years of service are not necessarily the problem but how the boat was stored in winter and was regular maintainence and service performed.

Try to hitch a ride as mentioned in several different boats to get a feel for them.

There was a thread on this forum some months ago about how to outfit a dory that might be helpful since the contributors were dorymen with lots of experience.

Corrirod fished commercially from his dory this summer and I am sure can give you some good pointers on the care and feeding of a dory.

I sport fished my dory this year for salmon, halibut, rockfish, and TUNA. We have been 49 miles from the beach and regularly fish 30+ miles for tuna. THE WEATHER HAS TO BE RIGHT, D0N'T FISH ALONE, RADIO, GPS, MANDATORY! You develop a special relationship and respect for the ocean being out of sight of land in your very little boat.
edsr

Harvey Dory? I just bought a Harvey Dory! As a novice doryman, I had a veteran dory friend of mine check the boat well before I laid down the cash. It's solid and has been stored well through the years.

I went out a few times this summer with friends, ironically, who also own Harvey's. I wasn't specifically looking for a Harvey, I just stumbled upon it while in the market for our first dory. I enjoy the walk-about space and the room. The boat I bought is a '72, but has never graced the beach in PC. That will soon change! Once you've been out in a Dory through the surf, you're ruined.....

Dave

[CAPT KUJO]

On any given week end at PC across from the rck at Webb COunty PArk you will see 5 or 6 harvey dories. I have rode on at least three of them. They have all been very seaworthy.

CAPT KUJO

[Tinman]

Thanks to all. I think I might pass on the Harvey because I don't quite trust the balsa core in such an old boat. My other plan was to build a Glen-L Hunky Dory, or buy a partially completed boat from Learned. Any opinions on those two options?

[corrirod]

I've only had my dory for the summer so I'm not an experienced doryman at all. I will tell you that my "Learned" dory is rock solid. It is built like a tank. Mine is an '82' but is still bone dry, no leaks. It's fiberglass over wood and to say it is heavy is an understatement. I wouldn't give up a single pound of the weight though after launching from the beach in Gearhardt. The heavier the better when pounding thru 8' surf!

Jay Beckman, the "Commercial Fishing God" of the Oregon coast, runs the exact same hull I do with some slight differences in his cuddy. His boat's name is "Legacy". He goes out in some pretty rough seas and catches thousands of fish each year. That being said, I'm pretty sure his father runs a Harvey dory but I can't remember the name.

I must admit, this dory fishing is addicting and I'm glad I discovered it. Hurry up and get a boat before next season! Good luck!

[Miss B Haven]

Hmmm.. I've known Ed for a long time and actually did some modification work on one of his Dories for a guy (put a fish box in). I never thought they were balsa cored but certainly could be I guess. I know that 95% of his boats went to Alaska to commercial fisherman. I'll have to stop at the rabbit and ask him about that some time.
Oh- he's got a gigantic plastic lighted pumpkin in the rabbits hand this year. Usually just a big real pumpkin!

[Woody]

My .02, build one!!!! That's what I plan to do this winter. I've built one boat before and the hunky dory doesn't look too difficult for a first (or second) timer. I'm a carpenter though, I have all the tools and complicated plans don't scare me. Let me know if you want to build one, I may have some helpfull tips.

[Mark Mc]

Hi Tinman....you have mail!

- Mark Mc

Mel,

I'm real interested in the fish box thing on my Harvey. In the front I have a storage box, but half of it is taken by the gas tank. I have no seats and the rest of the boat is open. I'm looking for suggestions on how to add a fish box and possibly put in at the least a capt's seat.

Any suggestions?
Thanks!
Dave

[kamloops]

I had a 22' Harvey a couple years ago. I bought it for a project boat. As most of my projects go it sat in my yard for several years before I got around to rebuilding it.
It had a soft floor but had a good sound transom.

I called Ed Harvey and he said to bring it over and he'd take a peek. I knew it needed a new floor and suspected new stringers. E

[kamloops]

Sorry, need batteries in my keyboard.

Anyway, Ed's guys put in a new floor and refinished the interior to match the new floor.
Along with replumbing fuel and rewiring it was ready to fish. I found a New (1998)Johnson 115 2-stroke and Merc 15 kicker and off I went.
After a few trips with the 30gl stock tank, and a few 5gl port. tanks, fuel was a problem. I quickly found that I needed more fuel capacity. I had another 35gl tank built and installed in the fishbox enclosure. That also served as the Helm seat bench. After installing the new tank there was still plenty of room for 10-20 fish.
My 22' came stock with a fishbox, I can't speak for the 20' but I remember they also had a stock
fish box that in both cases also served as helm and passenger seats. Had I the chance to rebuild another Harvey, I would first inspect the transom for soundness,but in most cases plan on rebuilding the floors. I would also get Honda or simular motor, not that Gas hog think I had.
I would highly reccomend a Harvey to anyone interested.

[fish assassin]

I had a Learned boat built for me that I took delivery of in December of 1989.
What a great boat! Rock solid. Tough as nails ... still going strong even after
the abuse that I've put it through commercial fishing it since it was new!

I had the shell built and took it to Royal Fiberglass at Sheridan to have
the glass work done. I had the engine and controls installed and then did
all the wiring and installation of the "jewlrey". I had the trailer built by Andy
Heathershaw at Maxweld Boats. I ended up with a unit that has served me well for
several years!

I'm planning on selling the Dory in 2004 as soon as the black and blue rockfish
permits are issued and I can get it transfered to Pacific Mistress. Even though
I've used the boat extensively over *many* years, I already have 3 guys fighting
over which of them is going to own her for next season!! So, as you can see, a
Learned boat also holds it's value well.

Good luck on your decision. Enjoy the dory thing out of PC!!

-assAssin-

Originally posted by Tinman:
Thanks to all. I think I might pass on the Harvey because I don't quite trust the balsa core in such an old boat. My other plan was to build a Glen-L Hunky Dory, or buy a partially completed boat from Learned. Any opinions on those two options?

<font size="2" face="verdana,arial,helv">

[Tinman]

Woody: I've built a couple of smaller boats, the largest being Phil Bolger's "Teal", a 15 foot plywood skiff. I'm no carpenter, but the dories look like fairly straightforward construction. Are you building the Hunky?

[Miss B Haven]

Originally posted by Eastside Dave:
Mel,

I'm real interested in the fish box thing on my Harvey. In the front I have a storage box, but half of it is taken by the gas tank. I have no seats and the rest of the boat is open. I'm looking for suggestions on how to add a fish box and possibly put in at the least a capt's seat.

Any suggestions?
Thanks!
Dave

<font size="2" face="verdana,arial,helv">Argghhh... this was what....1977 or 1978??? Anywho.. don't know what size the dory was. The box went up in the cuddy where the bottom started flattening out. Seems there was a storage locker with a hatch up there already. I cut out the top and glassed in the locker and put a new lid on it. Could be I just glassed in a box between the hull sides and bottom up there though (no existing locker?). I do remember grinding a lot of glass up inside that cuddy on a nice hot summer day! [img]graemlins/berry.gif[/img] Best part was I had an old pair of levis on that had holes in the knees. First time I got to find out about "fiberglass zits" ouch! :shocked: :depressed: [img]graemlins/stupid.gif[/img]

[ 10-09-2003, 02:17 PM: Message edited by: Miss B Haven ]

[Woody]

Yep,
I'm building the Hunky Dory from Glen-L. I'm going to add a small berth up front and a cabin. I have the plans now and have been studying them for a while. The construction does look pretty straightforward. My goal is to have it done by April or May '04. I think thats very do-able if I don't get sidetracked.

Mel,

I'm leaning towards simply using the storage locker in the front. Half is taken by the gas tank. I'm probably going to use the other half as the 'fish box'. It's a big area. The boat is a '72.

I need to have some trailer work done to make it beach launching/landing ready. The trailer that came with it is new and galvanzied, but has no roller and doesn't have a tilt. Is there someone in PC that can modify the trailer that you know of? This dory has never been launched or used in PC.

[Tinman]

Woody: How much do you think it will cost to build the Hunky Dory? Here is my estimate:

Plans and fastenings $1000
Marine Ply (13 sheets) 780
Lumber 900
Glue 200
Fuel tank & lines 350
Battery & Box 120
Lights, switches, wiring 200
Compass 150
Paint 200
Cleats & bow eye 100
Bilge Pump 120
Steering Wheel and cable 300
Ext. Fiberglass (contract) 1,600

TOTAL $6,020

I plan to subcontract out the fiberglassing of the bottom and sides. Also these numbers do not include motor and trailer. Are my numbers close to yours?

[Woody]

WOW, that seems REALLY high. I'll have to find my figures again but I was thinking more like 3-4 grand. I am going to do the fiberglass myself, so that will knock off $1000. $1000 is also pretty high for plans and fastenings.

Here is a cut and paste from Glen'L site:
61-652 HUNKY DORY PW Plans & Patterns........... 84.00
67-652 HUNKY DORY PW Galv Fastening Kit......... 109.59
68-652 HUNKY DORY PW Bronze Fastening Kit....... 329.86
71-652 HUNKY DORY PW Epoxy Fiberglass Kit....... 701.62


Edsr also built a hunky, let's see if he chimes in with his numbers.

[ 10-15-2003, 04:43 PM: Message edited by: Woody ]

[Tinman]

Woody: You're right about the $1000 being high for plans and fastenings. I think $500 is closer to the truth. The biggest unknown in my estimate is the lumber. Maybe you can help me with a better number here. What sort of wood were you planning to use for sheer, chine, stem and frames?
I've used Philippine Mahogany in the past, but I understand that clear fir is good too.

The Glen-L bill of material is for a bare hull. I am assuming a more complete boat with console, gear trays, bow deck, fishbox etc.

I hope edsr does give us his numbers.

[fish assassin]

Back in the day ...

I also thought about building my own dory. I even went so far as to buy the
Hunky Dory plans and built the frame to start construction. I didn't want
to use the bronze fasteners ... wanted to use all stainless ... and started
pricing wood, fasteners, etc., etc.

I then went to Pacific City and talked to Victor Learned about the cost of
having he and Terry build me a boat. The cost was comparable and I would save
all those hours spent in the shop trying to figure out how to get all the angles
and stuff correct on the bow section. I also saved a bunch of money because at
the time I didn't have the tools I'd need to do the build. I figured that I
would need to buy (at least) a planner, a table saw, a drill press, and a band
saw. All in all I think I actually saved money by having a professional built the
boat for me ...

... However, I didn't get the joy of owning a boat that I had built with my bare
hands!! What I bought was the bare hull. I then took it in and had it glassed,
had the engine installed and I did all my own wiring and added all of the "Jewlery"
myself. I also did (with a little help from my buddies) all the setup to make it
a commercial fishing boat. I've had a lot of joy out of that boat over the years
and I think if I had to do it again, I'd do it the same way ...

Learned boats (now built by Terry and his daughter?) are solid peices of equiptment
that will give you many MANY years of reliable service with minimal care.
(IMHO, YMMV)

-assAssin-

[edsr]

I built a Hunk Dory from Glen-L Plans. The designer is a Naval Architeict and also has a lot of practical experience.

Before you start - Caution - Building a boat is a lot of work!

//First thing//
Get a good place to build,a secure site to leave tools, close to home, level floor, electric, out of the weather, a double wide garage or larger, if possible, heat is a blessing. You need enough room around the boat so that you can maneuver yourself, tools and materials. Try to work on the boat every day at least one hour even if it is just sweeping-up.

Buy the best materials you can get because the materials will be the least expensive part of the boat when you consider your time. Use materials that are marine grade and proven in our area. Use bronze fasteners or marine grade hot dipped galvanized below the water line, they are the standards. Use screws and bolts where ever possible and limit the use of nails. Stainless steel is for above water use only it must have exposure in air to remain corrosion free, no kidding!

A rough estimate of cost would be somewhere between $5000 and $7000. Actual materials are less but there will be a ton of incidental items you didn't count on. A basic hull will take about 200 hours or more if you are an amateur, less if you, have help or are an experienced carpenter or boat builder like Woody. Basic hand tools can build the boat but modern power tools will cut some heavy labor and building time.

Couple of observations.

Don't screw around and get careless with epoxy. Wear rubber gloves ventilate well and use protective clothing. This stuff is cumulative and once sensitized you are sensitized for life!

Take your time to do the job right because your butt might depend on it.

It can be a very rewarding experience and a lot of fun.

I have had excellent service from Glenn-L answering my questions and good prices on the products they sell. That was several years ago so check for the best deals.

I'll be glad to answer what questions I can.
edsr

[Deepline]

Edsr,

Why do you suggest to use screws rather than nails?

[Woody]

I can answer that Deepline. Screws will hold much better than even ringshank nails. They are considerably more expensive but well worth it. With the pounding that a boat takes, I don't want to take the risk.

My .02 on Edsr's comments:

Get a good place to build,a secure site to leave tools, close to home, level floor, electric, out of the weather, a double wide garage or larger, if possible, heat is a blessing. You need enough room around the boat so that you can maneuver yourself, tools and materials. Try to work on the boat every day at least one hour even if it is just sweeping-up.

<font size="2" face="verdana,arial,helv">Absolutly, I couldn't agree more. In fact, I'm building a pole barn.

Buy the best materials you can get because the materials will be the least expensive part of the boat when you consider your time. Use materials that are marine grade and proven in our area.

<font size="2" face="verdana,arial,helv">Yep, White oak is pretty much the gold standard around here. Fir is OK but it tends to split and Oak directly from a good mill is actually cheaper than clear fir. Silicon-bronze square drive screws are the only way to go. Ed's right about Stainless. If stainless is sealed an anerobic environment it will corrode. It needs oxygen to keep the surface passivated.

Don't screw around and get careless with epoxy. Wear rubber gloves ventilate well and use protective clothing. This stuff is cumulative and once sensitized you are sensitized for life!

<font size="2" face="verdana,arial,helv">I went to Costco and bought two boxes of latex surgical gloves. I ended up using them all on my last boat project. Get some coveralls or have a set of work clothes you are willing to sacrafice to the project. When I got done with my last boat, my work pants could stand up on their own!! Ed's right about epoxy, don't mess around. Also wear a mask or even better a cartridge resperator when you sand.

It can be a very rewarding experience and a lot of fun.

<font size="2" face="verdana,arial,helv">There is nothing like the feeling of cruising around on the water in a boat you built with your own hands. As I could see the light at the end of the tunnel on my last boat, I was actually kind of bummed out. . I was having so much fun, I didn't want it to end.

[edsr]

Deepline - What Woody said about screws, additionally once a ring nail is in place it is very hard to remove, there are no adjustments.

The idea that once the hull is completed you are done is a common misconception. Fitting-out takes a lot more time and effort!

Douglas Fir lumber has gotten expensive, even right here in the heart of America's Wood Basket. Fir plywood is common but A/A or A/B marine is not and it is expensive. Exterior ACX and other non-marine plywoods sold for sheathing houses, etc. are not acceptable for an ocean going boat hull - no exceptions, even if you cover it with glass and epoxy, IMHO. Big deal you save a $100 dollars and it fails at sea right when you need it most. Imported marine ply must have the BS1088,( British Standard 1088), stamped on each sheet and know your dealer because there is some counterfeiting of the label. Sapele and Meranti are two of several varieties coming into the US rated marine and with BS1088 ratings.

If you opt for fir ply remember that it will "print through", i.e. the roto-cut grain pattern and the football patches will show unless you cover them with fiberglass and epoxy. No matter how many layers of paint you put on, even coating with epoxy paints or under coat with C.P.E.S.(Clear Penetrating Epoxy System). Imported plys don't do that but they are not as strong as D.F. or as rot resistant.

Oregon White Oak is a great boatbuidling material, strong, rot resistant, holds fasteners well and it looks good if finished bright. Oh, and it does smell good when you cut it. You can always paint bright work. Prepare oak joints carefully they can fail when glued with epoxy with their high acid content.

Epoxy observations -
DON'T CHANGE THE RATIO OF THE MIX!
VENTILATE WELL AND WEAR PROTECTIVE CLOTHING.
Don't mix components from differnt brands.
Chip brushes and foam rollers work but an auto body squeegee can really spread the mixed epoxy resin around better than anything else I have found.
Epoxy should be clear/amber in color if it starts to look creamy when applying you are overworking it, not good.
Mix only small amounts until you know your personal working speed. Doing a complete hull is a team effort. One person mixes and others spread it around.
Pumps that fit quart and gallon cans are available but you can also mix by volume or weight, check with the manufacturer.
Hope that answers a few questions.
edsr

[Tinman]

Wow, you guys are a wealth of information. Edsrand Woody, how much does Oregon White Oak cost per board foot, and where do you get it?

I agree with using marine plywood instead of AC exterior. I've built two smaller boats using marine ply, with good results. How much does marine ply cost (3/8) and where do you get it?

Edsr, how does the Hunky ride in choppy water. I am a bit worried about the flat bottom of a dory pounding in rough water. What size motor do you suggest? And is the motor well working out ok? I understand the Learned boats now use transom mounted outboards.

[edsr]

TM - I've been off line for a few days. White Oak is available locally from several sources. I got a nice load of random length/random width stuff from Hardwood Components in Mehama,OR 1-859-2144 they used to carry air-dried and kiln dried - also, Hasselblad Lumber in Scappose 1-800-695-5290. Emerson Hardwoods in Portland they carry marine plywood and lumber 503-227-6414. There are other suppliers - be sure to call around for availabiliy and price. I'm not up on current prices but I remember Woody posting a price a week or so ago. You might look up that thread or email Woody.
3/8" fir ply is harder to find than 1/2". If it was me, I would use 1/2" in lieu of the 3/8". The extra 1/8" in most applications is just a little extra insurance. What we want to look for is number of plys and thickness of plys. For non-hull applications, i.e., doghouse sides, seats, etc. MDO will work very well. The MDO that I have seen is a better quality plywood with less voids, really, just a cut below marine. It is designed for painting and the double faced stuff I've seen has been good.
There are certain weather/water patterns which are harder on flat bottom boats than say "V" bottom ones but there are trade-offs. If you want to drive at speed through a heavy chop a dory will pound hard. If in the same conditions you slow-down they ride fine. We found that load distribution affects performance and by moving things forward or aft splash and pounding can be reduced. Dories have tremendous lift and carrying capacity and can handle heavy water if you aren't in a hurry. For their size, double enders are about as sea worthy as anything, they just don't go fast. Because dories drive so easily you don't need as much power. I only have a 90 hp Honda and with a very full load in smooth water we averaged over 26mph. With a light load 32&gt;36mph. A deep "V" of the same length-width etc. would need 150hp. There are several thoughts on a motor in a well as opposed to a stern mount or extended bracket off of the transom. In the case of a fishing boat with high probabilty of line tangling in the prop the well-mount is easier to clear. The motor to water height does not change no matter where they are mounted but only long shaft motors are safe in wells. It is possible to mount larger motors on the transom than in a well which, I think, is why Learned is transom mounting. The 90 hp is, in my mind, about as large as you can go without losing benefits, i.e., planing area at the stern. If I was just starting to plan building a boat, I would review as many current plans as I could get my hands on. Simmons Sea Skiffs, Alaska Skiffs, and Bartenders are worthy candidates but are more advanced projects.

I feel safe in my dory but I also realize there are times and places where I don't feel comfortable. You have to pick your days and be brave enough to say we're not going out today!
edsr

[HUMPTIME]

I've built the hunky dory from glen-l. If you go their website and look under "customer photos" You will find my hunky dory. The name of the builder is Matt Krick, that is me. Love the boat. Took me an entire year to build, and I put many hours, to many to remember. After all is said and done I probably have between 7-8 grand into it, including motor and trailer. Very seaworthy boat. I fished every day I could this summer out in the ocean. Probably 35+. I live in Ocean Shores Washington. Fartherest I went out is 17 miles, but that doesn't mean much it was flat seas. I will tell you one thing. The boat is stable. If you ever hit really rough seas, just slow down and take your time, the thing rides the swell like a drift boat. Here are some specifics about the boat. I have a 70hp evinrude 1980 model. I can do 30mph on calm water. With mild chop and a passenger I can run 25, 26 all day long. I carry 30 gallons of fuel, I have yet to use a half a tank fishing all day long. Fishing out of Ocean Shores the run to the fishing area is usually between 6 and 10 miles one
way.

I too went down and talked with Terry Learned twice. Very nice man. Took the time to show me his boat shop and let me take pictures of his boat. I used many of his ideas in my own boat. I would recommend anyone who is going to build one to go see this guy. He is a true master of the trade.

Also Glen-l is good about helping out the first time builder, but really the best help you will get is from fellow builders of the same boat.

Lastly, forget the buttblocks, and scarf the plywood. By and John Henry scarfing jig, and a powerplaner. Professional joints in about 5 minutes each. The trick is in the clamping. Email me if you have question. If you work hard, and do your best you will love the Hunky Dory

Good Luck