Tuna 9/19 Results

TWB · 09-19-2003, 09:55 PM

It is late, just got in, but here is what I have to report. Left Newport at 6PM, heavy fog on shore, broke out about 5 miles out. Seas very nice today, about a 6 foot swell and no wind until the afternoon. Fished around 44 55 and 124 43. Water temp most of the day was 59.7 degrees, lots of birds on top of feeding fish. Saw many jumpers and fish cutting bait. But it was sure hard to get them to bite. Used every color of jigs, cedars, rapalas, and traps we had. Just could not get them to bite. Ended the day with only 3 fish and one lost. In the same area was the Irish, with 5 fish, the Maverick with about the same amount as we had and another boat with 9 fish.

Looked like a fair amount of fish still there, if only they would go on the bite?

Saw quite a few Salmon trollers fishing close to shore for Chinook. Most boats were out 3 to 7 miles, from straight out, up to the lighthouse.

Swell did come up to about 8 feet when we came in.

Jerry

Nofish · 09-20-2003, 04:18 AM

This not biting the jig thing is a pretty common occurance for fall tuna chasers off central California. Those guys down there rely on live bait to get tuna to the boat. Some are even successful with dead bait when live bait isn't available. It sounds as if there are still plenty of fish out there anyway.

Fishmstr · 09-20-2003, 06:35 AM

I know that a lot of folks switch to rapalas and swim baits in the the fall. Might be worth trying next time you see fish but they won't take the jigs.

Sea Jypzee · 09-20-2003, 06:39 AM

This time of year the TUNA switch to feeding on bait fish rather than squid generally. The clones and feathers are more 'squid' like. I agree, swim baits, fish traps, rapala's etc on either a VERY slow troll or cast into feeding fish directly from a drift.

Mark Mc · 09-20-2003, 07:34 AM

Good morning Jerry, Bob, Steve, & Nancy!

One other thing to add...try lighter leaders...like 40 lb. Or try tying the fishtraps directly onto a 30 lb rig for trolling, & ditto on the slow troll - 4 knots or so, lot of line out. Or try doing a dance!

Sea Jypzee · 09-20-2003, 08:01 AM

Good morning Mark and others,

Also, don't try to troll 'through' feeding fish...don't run over them as you'll just put them down. Best to stop up-drift from them and let the current bring the boat in closer...just cast into them, let it sink way down, 75-100' and then reel up fairly fast.

[ 09-20-2003, 09:02 AM: Message edited by: Sea Jypzee ]

Nofish · 09-20-2003, 08:10 AM

Mark,
That's a good tip about slow trolling swimbaits - I hear that works quite well. I also understand that's a good way to entice bluefin - which are starting to show off Half Moon Bay and Santa Cruz.

TWB and Nancy - How far out are the tuna off Newport right now?

We are trying to put together one last trip for the year. We may try to run out of Crescent City or Brookings on Tuesday or Wednesday as the ocean is forecast to flatten out...at least right now. Cheers...Bob

Sea Jypzee · 09-20-2003, 08:17 AM

Bob - I have heard reports of them still around 30-35 miles out...which is doable. This distance is run from Depoe Bay, to the West/NW area....will be further from Newport of course.

I am keeping a close eye on the marine forcast, looking at a possible exploration run out around tuesday. Working Wednesday so that one is out...but if thursday is looking better, may go then instead of tuesday.

TWB · 09-20-2003, 10:14 AM

Good morning everyone,

A good discussion here, but the real question is...why are all of you not fishing on a beautiful fall day like today...???
My excuse is, my wife went to the coast for the weekend with her sister, and I am left incharge of dog sitting and tuna canning....!!!

Well I think you are all right on with your thoughts about these fussy fish. I think there is no question that they needed to be finessed.
I was on a friends boat yesterday and we were not set up to fish in that manner.

Here is some more food for thought......I consider Rapalas and swim baits kind of seceret weapons for finicky fish, and have been very sucessful at times with both. Trolled both yesterday with no sucess. Last year at this time they were eating both of these baits very well? One of the fish that I caught yesterday was on a trap cast into a school of feeders. Had we been in my boat I would have like to tried to slide up to these fish and worked them with traps. Almost all of the fish that were caught yesterday by those out there, came by running to the birds, then you would see the tuna boiling on the bait and some fish jumping out of the water. Tried trolling the edges and finally in desperation right through the school? It's true, the fish were dialed in on those schools of bait fish and would not leave that spot to chase a jig. I think you are also right about line size. Last year I tied all of my jigs on 60# but after a couple of fish, they would chew the leader and the next fish would pop off the jig. This year I put every thing on 175# (thats all Englunds had at the time.) I think that overall my catch went down with the heavy line. Not a problem on a wide open bite, but when it is tough, I think it makes a difference?
And yes, what we woud give for some live bait here!!! There is no question that those fish could be caught with it. I know of one charter skipper that drifts a dead hearing on a jig stop with some sucess. I think that right now the the word would be, FINESSE.
Bob, we were fishing from Newport at 42 miles but we were about straight off of Depoe Bay which was about 35 miles to the fish. We were just on the edge of the fish. I talked to a friend who runs an 80' boat off of the Columbia this last week. He had just returned form a trip farther out. He said that they were catching about 2ton a day. So there must still be a lot of fish out there off of the Oregon coast. Terrafin this morning shows some interesting looking water off Coos Bay at 43 30 and off Trinidad at 41 30.
Nancy, I might be interested in one more run myself next week if the weather shapes up. Looks like it is blowing up off shore right now as it was predicted to do. Can't let them fish get the best of me like that....might be mad all winter?

Sorry about such a long post..good luck everyone.

Jerry

Marty · 09-20-2003, 03:57 PM

Jerry..........good post and all great suggestions. I had pretty good luck with the mega baits last couple of trips out. Put someone on the bow (weather permitting), while you are trolling and cast to the boils on the either side. Sometimes it may even be better to not have any of your troll gear out, especially if you are in an area of lots of fish, and you can 'run-and-gun' to any blow up very quickly. If the fish are doing a lot of head and tail type rising (not big showy spashes), they are most likely feeding on much slower sauries or pin-head anchovies. These bait fish are so slow the albies don't need to put a ton of energy into catching them. EXCEPT, when there are a lot of other tuna in the school, as they have to quickly eat as many as they can before their buddy's get'em.

I think the chunk bait will work good for these fish also, but I have never found a good source of bait to use. Should have anchovie or sardines. I have hear there is a source for fresh frozen anchovie and sardines in Astoria. They are bulk frozen 22 lb. boxes for $10.00. The company name is Astoria Pacific Seafood at 503 325-3156 or call Nancy Mcquire at 503 741-6100.

The hour glass is getting towards the end.....but success this time of year is remember ALL winter. See you all out there next break in the weather.

Marty

Nofish · 09-20-2003, 04:53 PM

Jerry,
I agree with Marty...great post!

I have always heard the same thing that Nancy echoed...albacore go from a squid diet to a bait fish diet late in the season. With my biologist background, I can't help but examine stomach contents of carked albacore. I haven't looked at all of 'em this year, but I have looked at probably 20 or so. I did see small squid in some (about 5-6) but the bulk had bait fish remains, mostly saury and sardines (from what I could make out). I am not really convinced it is a change in feeding habits that make them so picky in the fall.

I would love to try the dead/chunk bait...if we make it out one more time.

Has anyone heard anything out of Coos Bay???
Great discussion thread. Cheers...Bob

TWB · 09-20-2003, 07:59 PM

Marty.....tell me more about using chunk bait, I didn't know that would work for Albacore? What size of fish would you use? Would you just cut a fish into chunks and cast it, unweighted, into the school of boilers? Have caught Dorado on chunks of skipjack. Hmmmm.....?

The sardines that are available from the Columbia are from that fishery they started a few years ago. They purse them, freeze them, and sell them as bait to the loneline tuna fleets. Kind of a neat fishery, they use a helicopter to spot the fish. Then purse them.

So would that size fish be big enough to use as chunk bait?

If it was like it was yesterday, it would be like they fish strippers on the top. Just run hard to the fish when they push up the bait and you see the birds.

Here is a question for all of you experts? How are you rigging up your jigs on your rods?

This has been my setup for a long time and I am not sure if the line is scarring them? I use 80# tuff line and tie a snap swivel to that. Then I have a jig tied to a fishing rod length of mono. I have a loop on the end of the mono so I can easily change colors of jigs on the rod. Here is the question. Do you think the fish might see the tuff line with that short rod length of mono, about 8'? How many of you use straight mono on your Reels? Once again it doesn't seem to matter on a wide open bite. Just wondering?

Bob, I was thinking that I should look at the stomach contents of those fish last night, but all I really wanted to do was go to bed, so I didn't!

If the current blow settles down next week, lets look at it for "just one more cast" before it ends.

Jerry

Sea Jypzee · 09-21-2003, 07:23 AM

Jerry - One thing I've heard of that some people have done with chunk bait is to use it to chum the tuna up to the boat. The problem is the volume you would need to be able to do it very effectively though.

What size of mono leader are you using on your jigs? If I get out this week, I'm tempted to go with no real leader at all. I use 80lb power pro line, which is about the size of 20lb mono. It's small enough so it shouldn't bother the fish at all...run it to a snap swivel and hook direct to the luer.

The marine forcast for tuesday has got worse since I looked at it last evening...so I'm probably going to wait and see what Thursday's looks like. That is my current target day for making a run if this NW wind/swell doesn't push the warm water back out again too far.

[ 09-21-2003, 08:25 AM: Message edited by: Sea Jypzee ]

Booja 1 · 09-21-2003, 10:34 AM

Hey Nancy,,We on the El Shaddai don't use a leader on the troll...We just put a good size barrel swivel onto the double hooks in the feathers and tie directly to the swivel..We like to use mono,,60 or 80 lb,,mostly 60..We check for bad spots on the line after each fish and just quickly retie if need be..We haven't broken a fish off yet..Like a little give on the jig strike hence we use mono and boy that braided stuff is a real pain in tangles............

Marty · 09-21-2003, 02:57 PM

TWB......I troll with 150 lb. test leaders and no handlines. In the prop wash, I don't think leader size makes much of difference when you are fishing the turbulence, especially closer to the boat. When I troll with traps, I go down to a 3 or 4 foot 40lb. or 50lb. test floracarbon leaders attached to a swivel. In the warmer summer months, I think you could fish with 300 lb. test and still nail em. This time of year is different, why, I don't know. We had one trip two years ago in late Sept. where we had the engine turned off and were casting traps to dimpling (almost like trout slurping emergers)tuna. Their tails would come out of the water as they slowly went back down. The small traps 3 1/2" worked better than the usual 5 or 6" models and we were using the salmon gear and 20 lb. test. We had the Irish and another commercial doing circles around us and they never landed a fish and we had doubles on for almost 2 hours until the school finally went down and we smiled all the way home. The Irish ended up going another 20 miles outside to find some blue water biters that would hit the jigs and ended up with the same amount of fish as we caught. It can get really frustrating trolling through fish that are busting up all around you. This time of year lighter is better and smaller is better. IF you fish the green water go slower, fish the blue water you can speed up.

The chunk bait would be primarily to keep the fish around you as you are throwing traps or other lures. Cut the sardines into one inch pieces and throw out 5 or 6 pcs every minute or two or keep a one or two pcs going every ten seconds or so. You may not see them boil on the pcs, but watch the pcs as they sink. You will see the silvery side of the bait sinking, sinking, sinking and then it will just disappear. Its hard to see the black backs of the tuna 40 feet down, but you can see the silvery pcs of bait disappear. If you keep this up the school will hang around. Just don't throw too much bait or they won't eat your lures. Let a hooked fish hang 50 or 60 feet down until your buddy gets hooked with his fish, then you can gaff your fish. And then its your buddy turn to let his fish hang til you get one on again. Just like dorado the school will hang around longer when one of their buddy's is thrashing around under the boat. You can use chunks of bait "on the slide" to keep the school interested in your stuff OR you can use a live bait hook and put it thru the nose of the bait with no weights and 25lb. test and let it off the back of the boat as you are slowing to a stop. Keep your reel in free spool and let them run with it for awhile before you set the hook. You will hook them in the corner of the mouth about 90% of the time if you don't set the hook ( I know its hard), but just flip the bail over until the fish is taking line off your reel. Then you can set the hook if you want to.

Pray for flat water

Marty

TWB · 09-21-2003, 07:28 PM

Hi everyone,
Thanks for all the replies, great information.

Nancy, I am rigging up just about the same as Marty described, with 150# mono leaders to the tuff line. After reading Booja's reply, I am thinking that it might be just as easy to run mono on the reel and just tie them on. It would be easy to cut back when it gets nicked up. Mono used to work just fine before spectra came along?

Marty, good info about using the chunk bait. I think that we should give it a try. We know that live bait will hold a school of albacore for hours and the CA boats chunk the cow yellow fin, so why not on these finicky fish? As much as I like trolling for tuna, there is nothing quite as fun as casting to boiling fish! I can set on a school of surfacing rock fish and catch and release for hours. Great fun!

Your describing holding a fish in the water until another is hooked reminds me of a trip to Mexico. We were catching and releasing large Amberjack. You would get one to the boat, hold it in the water while the guide hooked another and handed the rod off. It was a production line of Amberjack, mighty strong fish and tireing catching them back to back. No fish were killed.

I think you are right on with the finesse tactics and light gear when the fish get in this mood. The buba gear just won't always work.

Hope that wind quits blowing.

Jerry

Threemuch · 09-21-2003, 07:41 PM

Another tip for fall albies is diving plugs. I hate to run em, but some days they just won't hit feathers, but will jump all over a diving plug. CD 18 Rapalas in black and purple, green and black, and dorado are good. I run a 16 oz trolling sinker in front of em and keep the speed under 5 kts so they dont jump and tangle. These are also effective for the wayward thresher.

Zuker Broomtails tend to still fish OK, better than any other jigs. My theory is that the fish are now eating much larger bait now, and the diving plugs match the hatch.

KB

Steelhead Hound · 09-25-2003, 12:39 AM

How Many miles out are the Tuna???? And is coho still open in the ocean??? If so how many miles out are they. THANKS

Sea Jypzee · 09-25-2003, 05:11 AM

T.O.K. - Coho is closed in the ocean down here in Depoe Bay area. They still catch them up on the Columbia Bouy 10 area I think though...one of the folks up north could better address how and where on that fishery.

As for Tuna - What to use? That's the big question this time of year. Look at this thread and the tuna fix thread for discussions on that topic. Where they're at?

My guess would put them 30-40 miles out.

Pilar · 09-25-2003, 08:30 AM

Cedar plugs seemed to work last Thursday on Julie Rose III. The green watermelon color especially. We were trolling fast about 7 kts and had it way out.

Chunk bait is good. We usually make a 1/2 a five gallon bucket of chunked herring and toss a handful into the wake whenever anyone remembers to. Also on any strike we run the bilge pump and dump blood into the wake and fling several handfuls of chunks out. This almost always results in more strikes.

On the sword trip we actually saw the dimpling schoools of TUNA! and the bait exploding out of the water as they got herded by the fish. We were 80 or 90 miles out by then in 65 degree water. After circling we drove by the school and managed to get one P-nut and nothing touched the 5" fishtrap.

Miss B Haven · 09-25-2003, 08:41 AM

Ummmmmm.... isn't chumming (if you'r eout of an Oregon port) still illegal Pilar? Even next year (if I read it right) chunk bait or ground chum will not be legal, only whole fish. :whazzup:

PS- Cedar plugs look and act a lot more like bait fish than the clones/feathers. I was thinking the same thing as I was reading about Tuna switching from squid to baitfish. ooks like we'll start light on the feathers, heavy on the cedars and trolling plugs.

[ 09-25-2003, 09:43 AM: Message edited by: Miss B Haven ]