24% increase in hunting license?

[ORsouthpaw]

Just checking out the paper and the proposal from the office of Gov. Tax&gouge-me is to increase hunting licenses by 24% (25% for Fishing) in 2010. I can understand that but what is the deal with the 200% increase in vehicle registration. Now my hunting truck will cost me 162.00 dollars just to put tags on it. Anyone else think this is umm... A little extreme?

[Bait Bucket]

Someone would sooner see you ride a bike or walk......

Just be happy that they haven't looked at vehicles and boats as "real" property like some states have.. My annual taxes on my truck was 1.5K annually. And boat was a tad less......

[Cornbread]

Where does it go? The license money I mean. I won't support it unless they can guarantee that it means at least X number of OSP game troopers put back into the woods or something similar. If the money is just going into the general bucket so they can repair a road, fund welfare, or put an Oregon Trail card in some one's hand some where in the 503s or something similar then he can take his increases and stuff it. If we are paying extra money for tags etc. then it needs to go towards wildlife/fisheries/and or enforcement. How about using it to reduce cougar populations in a serious way by cross catagorizing cougars as furbearers and letting us trap them or some other similar piece of perfectly good logic that seems to escape the powers that be as we watch our native wildlife populations plummit due to predation and poaching. OK sorry for the rant but I think we pay enough for the tags given what very little quality managment of wildlife we are seeing in return for our dollars.

[Capin' Dan]

Yes hey won't stop until we all are living in card board shacks. 200% increase in automobile taxes they would have to enjoy that one until we voted it out like wa. did a few years ago.

[BrianMaguire]

The money will go to ODFW, but what they will do is to decrease the general fund contributions by an equal ammount. Essentially we have have to carry more burden for the same service. They take the rest of the money that would have gone to ODFW and spend it on the PERS obligations.

I propose a tax on petuli oil, head shops, Volvos, Subarus, cross country skiis, tofu and Birken stocks, not to mentions a tax on paying rent.

[Chug]

Lets see do not drive, save gas, Buy energy cars, Cut down on power use, Add more wind turbines to make more power. Let more water out of the dams, too much power is being made.

we are paying less on our bills, in Gas, food, auto... getting really confuzed!!..

Go green, pay double Then taxed more. ugh..

They need start taxing Bathroom visits too Per...

Cutting back on hunting & fishing this year due to Fuel cost.. now fuel is down seasons over.. grrrrrrrrrr..

can not win... Must serve the empire they know what is good for the gopher. Hmmm... Wonder how much protin's in a mouse? Might be Cheaper Per pound then Beef.. hmmmmm

[Fisherman_Mark]

My biggest gripe about ODFW is there are no real fish and game officers. Instead they have OSP officers pulling double duty. I know I didn't pay this much in Arizona and could grab cat fish 2 poles at a time and they had real game wardens. Poching is bad here, and IMHO it is because this state has the burden to have biologist heavy wildlife management system instead of a balance of enforcement and biology.

[ehunter]

I agree with all you guys hunting in Wy this year really opn3d my eyes to the posibility of what we could have. Instead of cutting back like most of our companies we are being taxed. I really don't have a problem with paying a little more in hunting fees if it made sense but I am starting to think the best oppertunities are out of state and that is sad.
I would like to see what we are going to get in return for our investment I would like to see it laid out....I will be forced to retire out of state at this rate...

[Rusty Psoadman]

You'll note in my comments below that I don't have all the facts..now that that is out of the way, a few comments about ODFW licenseing....I was at a conference last week where several state agency directors talked about their budgets for the next bienium.

Anyway..maybe it was the ODFW director, but someone talked about how ODFW is primarily funded from licenses and fees...and not from the state general fund. Some other agencies like Oregon Dept of Ag. are funded with a lot more share of general fund dollars..and their budgets are getting whacked signficantly.

So..true, if you maintain level of service and your general fund budget drops, you need to raise license and fee revenue. I also think ODFW indicated that they were pegging increases to some sort of consumer price index.

I also am glad to hear you can buy licenses on-line..I wasn't aware of that option until this year.

When we look at fees we have to pay for the things we enjoy, (or need, like water) it's always important to consider that everything's relative...if the fee's have not kept pace with inflation, it may be reasonable to see signficant raises occasionally to get things back in check. My $0.02.

That assumes that we're all satisfied with the level of service.

[SandyRiverFisher]

yup, out-of-state is sounding better all the time. I might start hunting only every other year and taking all my money out-of-state. From what Ive seen Id likely fill a lot more tags that way. Hard to imagine a state thats worse for sport hunting than Oregon, but then the grass is always greener on the other side.

Im with you all the way fisherman_mark, more of the money needs to go to enforcement!

[baltz526]

they are reducing enforcement at the same time they increase fees. they vote themselves golden parachutes then waste our tax dollars on a million trivial pork projects. there is no accoutability, and they planned it that way. these are exactly the reasons political discussions get banned

[Capin' Dan]

Accountability is right they have none. Don't think more officers in the field is going to save everything. More officers that aren't doing the right things. I say that take the enforcement away from the state troopers and give it to the biologist give them a dual role in saving wildlife the guys who are in the field weather it is the forestry service or odfw. Gets me that we all think just throw more money at it. I went to buy a license in Wa to go duck hunting last week and almost choked Over a hundred dollars to get what is required to hunt over there. I wish that Or. could adopt a rule that made them pay the same that we have to pay over there. INSANE

[Rank Amateur]

Wildlife enforcement officers are a certain breed, one of the most dangerous law enforcement jobs, working with certainly armed people. It would not be good to shove bio's into that field.

Out of all the town hall meetings that I have attended, law enforcement issues or the need for more officers is always right at the top of the list. Maybe what should be done is training the L.E.O.'s in wildlife management and have them do some of the field observation collection, since they are in the field all the time.

Again, we should really tie any increases in getting something in return, I really think we need to get more research conducted, we are managing some species in a vacuum, like Blacktails.

[Blacktail Slayer]

I don't believe that bio's should be put into the law enforcement postions either. They go to school to learn how to become bio's and that should be their job. OSP goes to their own school to become Law & Wildlife Enforcement Officers. I think it is great that Oregon is one of only 2 states I believe to do this.

Another problem that I have heard about ODFW is that about 80% of all their money goes to the fish side, while the wildlife bio's get the left overs. Why is it not 50/50? I think we should contact Salem and find that one out.

[StevenB]

When it comes to fishing laws the biologists seem like they could enforce. Then again some fish poachers could be armed with more than a gaff or club.

[Silver Eagle]

This may be a little ratical but why not use the people that Hunt and Fish to regulate the poachers, I know I have seen laws being violated, you as a hunter or fisher sees things that don't look right. But we often don't want to be involved, or were on a tight sked or something, we all need to start being accountable for people that are stealing from us. Report suspecious behavior, the worst that will happen someone will eventually look into it. I have always been under the impression there should be a law that lets you run over anyone at 3 in the morning on a bike with a wagon hooked to the back with a load of tools in it.........just my

[lake creek charlie]

Youll notice that with unemployment @ 7 percent and going up,that tax and gouge me didnt cut one (THATS ONE) state worker! Used to be that state workers got about 50 percent of the going rate for different occupations, But last year they started making more than private industry jobs, and AND cant be laid off.......Stinks

[uhmw]

Come on now yall quit hammerin on odfw- The coyote ,couger and bear #'s been really good in my old Elk and Deer hunting areas. The bass fishing has also been spectacular in my old eastside trout lakes. I really enjoy getting stoked for shad in the spring, If you use a little imagination and follow a odfw recipe -cook them shad for 24 hrs on low and they can quickly be substitued for a hachery willy springer who needes hatcherys on such a wild river as the willy anyway. Lets crank up the fees and keep the common folk off the rivers and out of the feilds sos the rest of us has more room to shoot yots and catch shad

[baltz526]

give me shad and give me a job in the sewer plant

[ommedia]

You guys are really killing me. I love you all' man...but come on.

fisherman mark - No real Wildlife Officers? There are 119: http://www.oregon.gov/OSP/FW/f_w_personnel.shtml


lake creek charlie - as a 15 year state employee (not any longer) we did suffer during times of layoff. In my experience, Lottery had cuts one year that were very significant. Most agencies have hiring freezes (not just perminant jobs, but temps, seasonals, interns, job share, and anything that requires compensation). There is often a wage freeze (in 2005 I left the Employment Dept. because of a 3 year wage freeze), and then the state really makes up some shortfall money on attrition, as people retire or take other jobs, those duties are absorbed to other positions. ODOT has thousands of seasonal employees, of which, I imagine their Spring/Summer staff will be impacted severely, not to mention Parks & Rec, Fish & Wildlife, etc.

No state agency tries to put itself into huge financial shortfall, but they have a budget given to them each year or biannually. They spend their budget, then wait for word on the next budget. They are not owned by shareholders (like GM and all the big companies that are doing layoffs...like mine is now) whom have to make shareholders happy to try and maintain marketshare and capital. We are their shareholders and we are their employees. 10 or more years ago it no longer became the great "retirement" job, poor management of money in our retirement plan hurt us and they made changes. State jobs are either, very skill specific and proprietary, or they are transition jobs (fresh out of college, in between private sector jobs, gain mgmt experience and move jobs). Very few people enter and stay in state government jobs for very long anymore.

silver eagle - You as a citizen have the right to report crimes and have many tools available to report game violations. With today's technology, we can really get some exceptional evidence. Officers are trained to confront criminals...I don't think many of us really are prepared to do their job.

back to the original topic of discussion:
I too have tons of concerns about fish and wildlife enforcement and management.

So, we have to pay more because getting a piece of the general fund this year/biennium is going to be a DOG FIGHT. Fish and Wildlife are one of only a few agencies that generates any sort of an income to support their budget. Those agencies get less of the general fund pie by De facto. The sqeaky wheel gets the grease!

Come to the next sportsmans group meeting that is held in Salem every month. It's tonight in fact, at 7pm I believe.

Contact Pete Test to get more information about the meeting:
Pete Test
Deer & Elk Program Coordinator
(503) 947-6319

[fishboys]

Originally Posted by ommedia

You guys are really killing me. I love you all' man...but come on.

fisherman mark - No real Wildlife Officers? There are 119: http://www.oregon.gov/OSP/FW/f_w_personnel.shtml


lake creek charlie - as a 15 year state employee (not any longer) we did suffer during times of layoff. In my experience, Lottery had cuts one year that were very significant. Most agencies have hiring freezes (not just permanent jobs, but temps, seasonal, interns, job share, and anything that requires compensation). There is often a wage freeze (in 2005 I left the Employment Dept. because of a 3 year wage freeze), and then the state really makes up some shortfall money on attrition, as people retire or take other jobs, those duties are absorbed to other positions. ODOT has thousands of seasonal employees, of which, I imagine their Spring/Summer staff will be impacted severely, not to mention Parks & Rec, Fish & Wildlife, etc.

No state agency tries to put itself into huge financial shortfall, but they have a budget given to them each year or biannually. They spend their budget, then wait for word on the next budget. They are not owned by shareholders (like GM and all the big companies that are doing layoffs...like mine is now) whom have to make shareholders happy to try and maintain marketshare and capital. We are their shareholders and we are their employees. 10 or more years ago it no longer became the great "retirement" job, poor management of money in our retirement plan hurt us and they made changes. State jobs are either, very skill specific and proprietary, or they are transition jobs (fresh out of college, in between private sector jobs, gain mgmt experience and move jobs). Very few people enter and stay in state government jobs for very long anymore.

While I have no doubt about what you personally have experienced while working for the state. I would be willing to bet a very large sum of money that for each absorption of a job or the equivalent of there is 10 that waste money at a higher rate then the instances you've seen where they saved money by shifting the work load.

While I do not work for the state I am an agent of the state and see waste on a daily basis that a normal business would not be able to absorb, They would go under in less then 6 months in the private sector. My wife works for the county and See's the same exact thing.

I admit to having no real knowledge of how ODFW operates but if its anything like the rest of the state or forest service then there is more then enough waste.

[OutTrolling (ot)]

I read that also Southpaw. But to be truthfully honest, I wasn't the least bit surprised with Gov whatever-it-is-you called him (actually you hit the nail on the head) proposal .......considering. Well, if I really included what I'm thinking, it would be considered political so I'll stop.

[fish forever]

I hope the governor, commission and ODFW take the hatchet to Non Game/Fish programs supported by the ODFW. The 80% of non fisherman and hunters are getting a free ride on our licenses and fees. If the majority of $$'s come from state fees and Federal directed Sportsmans funds (like Pittman-Robertson) then that money should go to directly support services for fisherman and hunters.

Here's the things that should be cut or given to another department unless general funds are allocated
- Wildlife Conservation plans
- Non Hunter/fisherman access to state wildlife refuges (Sauvie Island, Denman....)
- Non Game Biologist.
- ESA compliance programs including some of the non game fish oriented Oregon plan funding
- Support for Watershed councils and activities (many of these are good activities but they are for the general publics benefit).
- All Salem HQ administrative overhead
- Law enforcement (this should be general fund - its important but fisherman and anglers shouldnt foot the bill - it also benefits the general public.)
- Wildlife viewing areas
- Other departments should be forced to help fund access, habitat, fish screening, mitigation and abatement programs. Fisherman and hunters are not the cause for increased development, agriculture, forestry practices. We are impacted but the sources and causes for the issues should be taxed.

Here are some places fees should get raised or taxes added.
- If someone wants access to State refuges they should have to have a fishing or hunting license (Hikers and Bird watchers should pay too)
- Developers should kick into an AnH fund
- Metro - some of those thousands of acres of rural formerly huntable farm land that metro is buying up in the Tricounty area should be dedicated to hunting and fishing.

I used to be in favor of ODFW Fees that supported wildlife, but 10 years of fee increases and reduced services and performance make me feel like they are just tax increases without a corresponding postive impact. I'd rather pay nothing and get nothing, than pay more and get less.

[billc_sbio]

Originally Posted by Cornbread

Where does it go? The license money I mean. I won't support it unless they can guarantee that it means at least X number of OSP game troopers put back into the woods or something similar. If the money is just going into the general bucket so they can repair a road, fund welfare, or put an Oregon Trail card in some one's hand some where in the 503s or something similar then he can take his increases and stuff it. If we are paying extra money for tags etc. then it needs to go towards wildlife/fisheries/and or enforcement. How about using it to reduce cougar populations in a serious way by cross catagorizing cougars as furbearers and letting us trap them or some other similar piece of perfectly good logic that seems to escape the powers that be as we watch our native wildlife populations plummit due to predation and poaching. OK sorry for the rant but I think we pay enough for the tags given what very little quality managment of wildlife we are seeing in return for our dollars.

Ha ha, you've GOT to be kidding?

[lor]

Originally Posted by fish forever

I hope the governor, commission and ODFW take the hatchet to Non Game/Fish programs supported by the ODFW. The 80% of non fisherman and hunters are getting a free ride on our licenses and fees. If the majority of $$'s come from state fees and Federal directed Sportsmans funds (like Pittman-Robertson) then that money should go to directly support services for fisherman and hunters.

Here's the things that should be cut or given to another department unless general funds are allocated
- Wildlife Conservation plans
- Non Hunter/fisherman access to state wildlife refuges (Sauvie Island, Denman....)

I can see where your going and in general I agree with you.
However I think you might find that non hunter use of Sauvie Island is pretty significant. Assuming every vehicle at that place during the warm months buys the $10.00 parking permit, I think they might generate more funds that sportsmans. You should see the beach during the summer.

[dla]

Originally Posted by ehunter

I agree with all you guys hunting in Wy this year really opn3d my eyes to the posibility of what we could have. Instead of cutting back like most of our companies we are being taxed. I really don't have a problem with paying a little more in hunting fees if it made sense but I am starting to think the best oppertunities are out of state and that is sad.
I would like to see what we are going to get in return for our investment I would like to see it laid out....I will be forced to retire out of state at this rate...

Bingo!

At some point Oregon sportsmen are going to have to vote with their wallets. ODFW has been totally unresponsive and this fee increase was pushed through despite majority opposition. So if you want to continue to pay more for reduced opportunity - go ahead. But if you want to force change.............

[fish forever]

Originally Posted by lor

I can see where your going and in general I agree with you.
However I think you might find that non hunter use of Sauvie Island is pretty significant. Assuming every vehicle at that place during the warm months buys the $10.00 parking permit, I think they might generate more funds that sportsmans. You should see the beach during the summer.

I dont know the numbers and I would guess the department doesnt either, but I would hazard to guess that the cost of the parking passes doesnt cover what it takes to run Sauvies or the cost of what it took to acquire it. Also, the parking pass is per vehicle not per user. bikers, hikers, passengers in vehicles, local residents all get to use the refuge for nothing - They should have to buy a license.

But, In general my diatribe isnt so much about that specific refuge. My issue is that the ODFW is chartered with providing a wide range of wildlife services and enforcement that benefit the whole state, But a minority of Hunters and fisherman are increasingly paying the bills for the rest of the general services.

[ehunter]

I like where your thinking is going, there are allot of non hunters and fisherman who gain the benifiets our tags. I think if your animal gawker you should have to pay all those guys and gals that think wolves are cute should have to buy a license to help support them the same for the cougars we are paying (hunters) for a preditor that is hurting our wild life. (Seals for fisherman) I think if you want to support more cougars then the state can support you should have to buy a license to support them and if not we should get the numbers down to the threshold and no politics. Same with coyotes in the fawning areas.

Originally Posted by fish forever

I dont know the numbers and I would guess the department doesnt either, but I would hazard to guess that the cost of the parking passes doesnt cover what it takes to run Sauvies or the cost of what it took to acquire it. Also, the parking pass is per vehicle not per user. bikers, hikers, passengers in vehicles, local residents all get to use the refuge for nothing - They should have to buy a license.

But, In general my diatribe isnt so much about that specific refuge. My issue is that the ODFW is chartered with providing a wide range of wildlife services and enforcement that benefit the whole state, But a minority of Hunters and fisherman are increasingly paying the bills for the rest of the general services.

[Cornbread]

Originally Posted by billc_sbio

Ha ha, you've GOT to be kidding?

No, I can dream can't I?

Here is my dream:

I dream of a state called Oregon where tag money goes towards the full circle of management of the game and fish populations that the tag holders are helping to manage via hunting and fishing as well as the support of their dollars.

I dream of a state called Oregon where actual science is used to manage predator and game populations.

I dream of a state called Oregon where there is enough enforcement officers and support in the back office for those officers so that poaching accounts for less than 0.02 percent of all game taken.

I dream of a state called Oregon where teams of biologists with many years of experience get to determine the policies of how game is managed not politics.

I dream of a state called Oregon where my children will get to hunt and fish for the same things I once did with even better opportunities than I had because the game and fish populations only grew over time under proper care and management by an ODFW that did it's utmost to make a better Oregon, not a better paycheck.

I dream of a state called Oregon where common sense and good science is used in wildlife management not 503 area, bleeding heart, emotions.

I dream of a state called Oregon where the people determining how things are managed actually have spent time in the woods and on the rivers, lakes, and ocean rather than people who have just read about it and vote based on how their TV tells them to vote.



I have a strange feeling though that my Staff Sgt was right years ago when he told me to take my dreams and put them in one hand and then take a dooky in the other hand and see which one had any weight, but I still dream anyway because the last thing out of Pandora's box was hope and we haven't left the box open long enough yet for that to have flown for me.

[Catch 22]

I will be hunting deer and elk in Montana next year. Thanks for the good times Oregon. Hey, can you guys remember paying for tags and then when you went hunting, you actually saw animals. This has been a very bad year, so I know people are overly frustrated. But the way to fix it isn't to raise fees.
Good job on the youth programs and trying to get young folks outdoors. Then tax the daylights out of them. Maybe I'll just stay inside and play Xbox with the kids. I can afford to do that.

[ommedia]

OSP Wildlife Division Funding:

For the 07 -09 budget, approximately:
47% of the Division's funding came from ODFW (license and tag fees),
23% from Lottery (Measure 66),
16% from general fund dollars,
5% from State Marine Board,
5% from federal funds and
4% from other funds (DEQ).

FYI

[BrianMaguire]

So how much funding do they get from Pittman-Robertson dollars? Is that the 5%? So if they increase our fees 25%, they essentially remove all general fund dollars and its a wash. That is not cool.

[drake7590]

Originally Posted by Cornbread

No, I can dream can't I?

Here is my dream:

I dream of a state called Oregon where tag money goes towards the full circle of management of the game and fish populations that the tag holders are helping to manage via hunting and fishing as well as the support of their dollars.

I dream of a state called Oregon where actual science is used to manage predator and game populations.

I dream of a state called Oregon where there is enough enforcement officers and support in the back office for those officers so that poaching accounts for less than 0.02 percent of all game taken.

I dream of a state called Oregon where teams of biologists with many years of experience get to determine the policies of how game is managed not politics.

I dream of a state called Oregon where my children will get to hunt and fish for the same things I once did with even better opportunities than I had because the game and fish populations only grew over time under proper care and management by an ODFW that did it's utmost to make a better Oregon, not a better paycheck.

I dream of a state called Oregon where common sense and good science is used in wildlife management not 503 area, bleeding heart, emotions.

I dream of a state called Oregon where the people determining how things are managed actually have spent time in the woods and on the rivers, lakes, and ocean rather than people who have just read about it and vote based on how their TV tells them to vote.



I have a strange feeling though that my Staff Sgt was right years ago when he told me to take my dreams and put them in one hand and then take a dooky in the other hand and see which one had any weight, but I still dream anyway because the last thing out of Pandora's box was hope and we haven't left the box open long enough yet for that to have flown for me.

Well.... said

[rimrock]

We live in a great State...it's a blessing to be here. I have no complaints. Sure anything can be "better" but it's all and all a pretty good deal.

[Old Soldier]

The is no wash! General funds are being cut if the Governor has his way. I wish I had the details on PR but do not. On the OSP game enforcement cuts we need to tell the OSP Superintendent not to make all the cut in game enforcement. The budget is like trying to grab a hand full of water (fluid) to say the least.

Originally Posted by BrianMaguire

So how much funding do they get from Pittman-Robertson dollars? Is that the 5%? So if they increase our fees 25%, they essentially remove all general fund dollars and its a wash. That is not cool.

[baltz526]

i'm to depressed about game numbers to worry about polititions urinating away our heritage

[BlackTail18]

Originally Posted by ORsouthpaw

Just checking out the paper and the proposal from the office of Gov. Tax&gouge-me is to increase hunting licenses by 24% (25% for Fishing) in 2010. I can understand that but what is the deal with the 200% increase in vehicle registration. Now my hunting truck will cost me 162.00 dollars just to put tags on it. Anyone else think this is umm... A little extreme?

that is extreme! hunting taggs going up like $5.25 not that bad but $160.00 for DMV tags!

[lake creek charlie]

[HTM
i'm to depressed about game numbers to worry about polititions urinating away our heritage
__________________
L][/HTML] YAH that too

[Blacktail Slayer]

Originally Posted by rimrock

We live in a great State...it's a blessing to be here. I have no complaints. Sure anything can be "better" but it's all and all a pretty good deal.

Yep I agree.

Fish Forever,
I don't know if I could agree with taking away our non-game bios. Who do you think is going to keep track of our wolf population and one day start a hunting season? Kicking out all people without a hunting/fishing license would be bad for our economy. If you would split animal watchers, hunters, and people who fish in three different groups you would be surprised at how much money is made from people just watching animals. I had a class that broke down the dollars with all three groups and it went 1.Animal watchers 2.People who fish 3. Hunters
I believe that was the right order from most revenue maker to least. All three were very close. All the money made from people who just watch the animals goes to those certain businesses. I guess it might be fine to charge a yearly parking pass for those people without hunting or fishing license. We have to remember that there are a lot of things out there that are connected in life. If we stop managing some animals to help others; it may in return backfire and hurt the animals or habitat that we would like to save. A lot of thought would have to go into this. This would not be something someone could just type out in a few minutes and save Oregon and all our game. It sure would be nice if our bios were in control of our real wildlife management.

[ehunter]

How did they quailify animal watchers in your class I mean I am a animal watcher I scout pretty much most of the year but I spend no money other than gas and my time? So there is no revenue stream generated me from until I buy a tag and licsense? Unles they are lumping all the guys that go to the beach and spend money at a hotel to watch whales but that really skews the numbers since that also runs into tourist dollars? So how does that equate to dollars spent by hunters in say Eastern Oregon and not the coast? Was there a break down between dollars for animal watchers in Eastern Oregon vs the coast?

Just wondering how they came up with their numbers?

Originally Posted by Blacktail Slayer

Yep I agree.

Fish Forever,
I don't know if I could agree with taking away our non-game bios. Who do you think is going to keep track of our wolf population and one day start a hunting season? Kicking out all people without a hunting/fishing license would be bad for our economy. If you would split animal watchers, hunters, and people who fish in three different groups you would be surprised at how much money is made from people just watching animals. I had a class that broke down the dollars with all three groups and it went 1.Animal watchers 2.People who fish 3. Hunters
I believe that was the right order from most revenue maker to least. All three were very close. All the money made from people who just watch the animals goes to those certain businesses. I guess it might be fine to charge a yearly parking pass for those people without hunting or fishing license. We have to remember that there are a lot of things out there that are connected in life. If we stop managing some animals to help others; it may in return backfire and hurt the animals or habitat that we would like to save. A lot of thought would have to go into this. This would not be something someone could just type out in a few minutes and save Oregon and all our game. It sure would be nice if our bios were in control of our real wildlife management.

[baltz526]

i'm sure your right, they probably include SEA LION CAVES in their dollar figures. and that is just putting a large untruth in the balance of who spends money on wildlife. just another crooked way of looking at the money. SOP in goverment

[Ben Hur]

Originally Posted by lake creek charlie

Youll notice that with unemployment @ 7 percent and going up,that tax and gouge me didnt cut one (THATS ONE) state worker! Used to be that state workers got about 50 percent of the going rate for different occupations, But last year they started making more than private industry jobs, and AND cant be laid off.......Stinks

Your full of beans. The most underpaid state workers got a big raise so they no longer qualified for food stamps just last year. State workers are not overpaid. Can't be laid off, my eye I know many workers in the past that were laid off and never hired back.

[ommedia]

Isn't that the truth!

Glad to see you are back from hunting around the world!

Originally Posted by Old Soldier

The is no wash! General funds are being cut if the Governor has his way. I wish I had the details on PR but do not. On the OSP game enforcement cuts we need to tell the OSP Superintendent not to make all the cut in game enforcement. The budget is like trying to grab a hand full of water (fluid) to say the least.

[lake creek charlie]

You sound like a politician with this....[PHP][Your full of beans. The most underpaid state workers got a big raise so they no longer qualified for food stamps just last year. State workers are not overpaid. Can't be laid off, my eye I know many workers in the past that were laid off and never hired back.
/PHP] no facts just NO ITS NOT true. SHOW ME WHERE THE GOV CUT ANY PERSONNEL. Its time that the state workers are subject to the same layoffs and retirement that the average WORKING american has been . You know this is not the case, and some day the people are going to rise up and stop this insanity laid off state worker is an anomoly Nada

[Blacktail Slayer]

Originally Posted by ehunter

How did they quailify animal watchers in your class I mean I am a animal watcher I scout pretty much most of the year but I spend no money other than gas and my time? So there is no revenue stream generated me from until I buy a tag and licsense? Unles they are lumping all the guys that go to the beach and spend money at a hotel to watch whales but that really skews the numbers since that also runs into tourist dollars? So how does that equate to dollars spent by hunters in say Eastern Oregon and not the coast? Was there a break down between dollars for animal watchers in Eastern Oregon vs the coast?

Just wondering how they came up with their numbers?

You are probably right about whale and sea lion watching. I did however see people all over NE Oregon throughout the summer that were not hunters but still looking to view animals. I'm not sure exactly how they broke up the money. Gas, hotels, books, binos, feed, camping gear, food, state wilderness?parking pass, and the list could go on and on. Ya I know how much hunters spend. I'm right there with all of you. Ever cent of my paychecks after bills goes towards hunting and scouting crap. They may even include Yellow Stone wildlife visitor passes and camping. There are a million ways of making money for the communities and wildlife from people who only view the animals than tags sales. You should contact Bruce Dugger at OSU and he could explain everything better than myself. He was the instructor of that class. I think we all need to look at the big picture when talking hunting, fishing, wildlife, and so on. We all tend to think deer, elk, fish, deer, elk, fish, deer, elk, fish.... Birds? Whales? Wolves? What are all those. Well the truth is non-game and wildlife viewing is a huge market that helps the world go around just like hunting and fishing. One would be selfish not to think the same. I'm not saying that more money shouldn't go towards game animals, but we should not cut out non-game management or push out wildlife viewers. Just my

[garyk]

Originally Posted by ommedia

OSP Wildlife Division Funding:
For the 07 -09 budget, approximately:
47% of the Division's funding came from ODFW (license and tag fees),
23% from Lottery (Measure 66),
16% from general fund dollars,
5% from State Marine Board,
5% from federal funds and
4% from other funds (DEQ).

Another bucket of money is in the Wildlife NonGame Division. Through the Charitable Checkoff on the Oregon State Tax form, over $2-Million Dollars has been voluntarily donated.

[ehunter]

The reason I ask is I wrote a paper on the Economics of hunting when I was in college and I also included a section on fishing. The real impact is broken down when you start to look at the big picture not the micro side of things. For example we all know that hunting is supporting a whole group of side business, I have don't have the numbers here but we talking in the billions now for clothing sales, sporting good stores ect. Those numbers should be included along with 4x4 tires, tents gas that goes into the trip ect. A lot of hunter now stay in hotels buy food ect. I have seen studies that include people counts in the NF but how many of those people have bought bird watching equipment for that very purpose or own a 4 wheel drive truck that they up keep for hunting ect. A lot of those people me included are hikers but they don't tend to buy supporting dollars for hunting unless they are me So there is allot of ways to put this data like any statical analysis depending on the point your trying to make. It was many years ago when I did this study and at that time in some of the small towns were getting annually 50% of their business during the hunting seasons. I would be surprised in this day and age that is still the case but I would be just as surprised to find bird watchers matching the amount of money spent during hunting seasons in some of the small rural towns. I agree we should not discount the others who use the out doors but next to hikers and fishermen I think the dollar spent has to be tough to match up to the total hunting dollars that are put into local economies out side of ski season Recreational dollars are tough to track because there are so many cross over area's. I may have a 4x4 for hunting that I use for snow shoeing ect.

My point is that if we suddenly pulled out the dollars we hunters put into OFWD budget who would make it up? If the bird watchers and whale, and wolf hopefulls were to have to pay would they???? How much money do they give for habitat improvments ect? Money that would be lost by the Pittman acts? The groups like RFM, OHA, Ducks Unlimited ect. Hunters I think without a doubt carry the largest burden for supporting our animals, take hunting away and that will leave a large hole to be filled.

Originally Posted by Blacktail Slayer

You are probably right about whale and sea lion watching. I did however see people all over NE Oregon throughout the summer that were not hunters but still looking to view animals. I'm not sure exactly how they broke up the money. Gas, hotels, books, binos, feed, camping gear, food, state wilderness?parking pass, and the list could go on and on. Ya I know how much hunters spend. I'm right there with all of you. Ever cent of my paychecks after bills goes towards hunting and scouting crap. They may even include Yellow Stone wildlife visitor passes and camping. There are a million ways of making money for the communities and wildlife from people who only view the animals than tags sales. You should contact Bruce Dugger at OSU and he could explain everything better than myself. He was the instructor of that class. I think we all need to look at the big picture when talking hunting, fishing, wildlife, and so on. We all tend to think deer, elk, fish, deer, elk, fish, deer, elk, fish.... Birds? Whales? Wolves? What are all those. Well the truth is non-game and wildlife viewing is a huge market that helps the world go around just like hunting and fishing. One would be selfish not to think the same. I'm not saying that more money shouldn't go towards game animals, but we should not cut out non-game management or push out wildlife viewers. Just my

[Bluefinn]

Here is a link to the whole ugly topic on another thread.http://www.ifish.net/board/showthrea...58#post2298958

[ommedia]

Garyk, I was quoting OSP's budget only, not ODFW.

Originally Posted by garyk

Another bucket of money is in the Wildlife NonGame Division. Through the Charitable Checkoff on the Oregon State Tax form, over $2-Million Dollars has been voluntarily donated.

[ORsouthpaw]

In the end I suspect that I'm like most sportsman (Hunter's & Fishermen). If it means more game to pursue I'm willing to ante up. The problem is that the precedent has been set and the fact is that no amount of political smoke can cover the blatant mis-use of hunting and fishing revenue that has already happened. Can you say... Snowflake? Too many increases have come down the pipe without any real improvements in opportunity and management practices. This is simply an increase to place more of the burden on sportsman. The sad part is the same groups that preach love for the animals and trees are the same people that want to see an end to hunting. Like ehunter said when hunters stop contributing the void will be immense. In fact it I suspect that it would so large that they might have to take part of the proposed 200 percent increase in vehicle registration and allocate to the wildlife.

[garyk]

Originally Posted by ommedia

Garyk, I was quoting OSP's budget only, not ODFW.

YUP. My bad....I misread it as a breakdown of ODFW's wildlife division funding.

The $2-million in voluntary gifts still serves as an example that could be expanded upon.

[ehunter]

I am with you we were simply amazed at what we saw in Wy and there is no reason Oregon couldn't have those deer and antelope numbers. We will all forget about it and reach deeper and pay because that is what we do and you we are hunters. Not because we are excited to add new funds for the same old thing. But maybe some of us will be thinking about other oppertunties out of state seriously.

Originally Posted by ORsouthpaw

In the end I suspect that I'm like most sportsman (Hunter's & Fishermen). If it means more game to pursue I'm willing to ante up. The problem is that the precedent has been set and the fact is that no amount of political smoke can cover the blatant mis-use of hunting and fishing revenue that has already happened. Can you say... Snowflake? Too many increases have come down the pipe without any real improvements in opportunity and management practices. This is simply an increase to place more of the burden on sportsman. The sad part is the same groups the preach love for the animals and trees are the same people that want to see an end to hunting. Like ehunter said when hunters stop contributing the void will be immense. In fact it I suspect that it would so large that they might have to take part of the proposed 200 percent increase in vehicle registration and allocate to the wildlife.

[Mossyhorn]

Why hasn't anyone mentioned the vehicle registration increase 200% !!!!! That is beyond ridiculous! Hearing that, I could care less about the ODFW increase. That just infuriates me to no end. I'm tired of being taxed for everything. There is a tax for almost everything! Gas tax, vehicle tax, hotel tax, food tax (Corvallis has one), it goes on and on.

[Blacktail Slayer]

Excellent post. It would be very interesting to see if the non-game wildlife viewers would pay or not. I would be in favor of some sort of annual pass for wildlife viewers. Has ODW ever looked into anything like this? Has OHA brought this up in any ODFW meetings? Thanks to all for the great posts on this thread.

Originally Posted by ehunter

The reason I ask is I wrote a paper on the Economics of hunting when I was in college and I also included a section on fishing. The real impact is broken down when you start to look at the big picture not the micro side of things. For example we all know that hunting is supporting a whole group of side business, I have don't have the numbers here but we talking in the billions now for clothing sales, sporting good stores ect. Those numbers should be included along with 4x4 tires, tents gas that goes into the trip ect. A lot of hunter now stay in hotels buy food ect. I have seen studies that include people counts in the NF but how many of those people have bought bird watching equipment for that very purpose or own a 4 wheel drive truck that they up keep for hunting ect. A lot of those people me included are hikers but they don't tend to buy supporting dollars for hunting unless they are me So there is allot of ways to put this data like any statical analysis depending on the point your trying to make. It was many years ago when I did this study and at that time in some of the small towns were getting annually 50% of their business during the hunting seasons. I would be surprised in this day and age that is still the case but I would be just as surprised to find bird watchers matching the amount of money spent during hunting seasons in some of the small rural towns. I agree we should not discount the others who use the out doors but next to hikers and fishermen I think the dollar spent has to be tough to match up to the total hunting dollars that are put into local economies out side of ski season Recreational dollars are tough to track because there are so many cross over area's. I may have a 4x4 for hunting that I use for snow shoeing ect.

My point is that if we suddenly pulled out the dollars we hunters put into OFWD budget who would make it up? If the bird watchers and whale, and wolf hopefulls were to have to pay would they???? How much money do they give for habitat improvments ect? Money that would be lost by the Pittman acts? The groups like RFM, OHA, Ducks Unlimited ect. Hunters I think without a doubt carry the largest burden for supporting our animals, take hunting away and that will leave a large hole to be filled.

[Blacktail Slayer]

[
quote=ORsouthpaw;2299052]In the end I suspect that I'm like most sportsman (Hunter's & Fishermen). If it means more game to pursue I'm willing to ante up. The problem is that the precedent has been set and the fact is that no amount of political smoke can cover the blatant mis-use of hunting and fishing revenue that has already happened. Can you say... Snowflake? Too many increases have come down the pipe without any real improvements in opportunity and management practices. This is simply an increase to place more of the burden on sportsman. The sad part is the same groups the preach love for the animals and trees are the same people that want to see an end to hunting. Like ehunter said when hunters stop contributing the void will be immense. In fact it I suspect that it would so large that they might have to take part of the proposed 200 percent increase in vehicle registration and allocate to the wildlife.[/quote]

I would be willing to ante up to help our wildlife, but it would be nice if our bios were the ones in control. The few political problems; such as Snowflake could possibly been avoided. There are probably 40 cases like this a year, but the people don't try and fight to keep their illegally taken wildlife. There is always someone out there to mess it up. Their lawyer in a real winner also. Everyone that has illegally taken wildlife from here on out should receive the max fine and be done with. That is what we get for trying to be nice to those animal lovers. Hopefully there is someone out there in all this political mess reading our posts. What if people who hunt and fish just decided to quit here in Oregon and spend all their money in another state? Where would all the workers find jobs and where would they find their money to help our wildlife. It is sad that the bios get looked down upon for others mistakes. I still really enjoy hunting in this state with the opportunity to hunt year round. I do think things could be a little better like other states that have been mentioned. All and all I am happy but worried at the same time with people getting ready to give up on Oregon and take their money to other states. Hopefully we will see a change in the future with our bios in control and a little less political mess.

[Rank Amateur]

Hey, I will pay the increase, but only if the Govenor signs a deal that only the sportsmen get to say how our game animals are managed. Deal? Otherwise the average Joe citizen can anty up more funds to manage their wildlife, not less.

[ehunter]

A little off topic but speaking of snowflake did you guys see this. I guess the family was not as animal orintated as they projected them selves

Subject: Willamette Week | “Snow Job” | December 10th, 2008



Snow Job

A Molalla couple fights to keep Snowball but Deserts Juanita, Bonita and Lolita, their pot-bellied pigs.

BY BETH SLOVIC

Jim Filipetti and Francesca Mantei never became household names.
But Snowball—the injured blacktail deer that Filipetti found on the side of the road and took home in 2001—became one of Oregon’s most famous animals last year after state wildlife officials removed the doe from the Molalla couple’s care.
The Oregonian, responding to readers’ overwhelming sympathy for the couple, devoted nearly two dozen stories in 2007 to what the newspaper christened the “Snowball saga.” TV and radio picked up the neat narrative pitting a family of animal lovers against a bunch of heartless and bumbling bureaucrats.
For Filipetti and Mantei, however, some animals are apparently more equal than others.
WW has learned that while the couple’s affection for Snowball may know no bounds, it appears they feel differently about other animals.
In August, the couple and their family moved from Molalla. And the new owners of their home got more than the four walls and roof they bargained for: They also inherited a miniature animal farm that included a llama, peacocks, pigeons, roosters and three pot-bellied pigs later renamed Juanita, Bonita and Lolita.
Now, the fact that the family left their pets behind without finding new homes for them has gotten the goat of several Portland-area animal lovers.
“They’re phony heroes,” says Patty Hill, vice president of the Northwest Miniature Pig Association.
Hill is one of several people who responded to a Craigslist ad posted by a friend of the new homeowners seeking families for the Molalla menagerie.
On Sept. 1, Hill organized a “rescue.” And what she found in the pen where Snowball once gamboled appalled her.
“They were so lethargic,” Hill says. “Usually pigs will get up and just take off. But these pigs just laid there. They were sick.”
Kit Collins, a Northeast Portland woman who runs Out to Pasture Animal Sanctuary in Estacada, also took part in the rescue. A year earlier she had backed the Molalla couple in their Snowball fight with the state.
“As a taxpayer, I am outraged to learn of the Oregon Department of Fish and Wildlife wasting my money to remove Snowball…from the family in Molalla,” Collins wrote in a letter published in The Oregonian on Sept. 14, 2007. “The family kindly rescued and rehabilitated Snowball when she was an injured fawn, at their own expense.… Fish and Wildlife needs to make an exception and grant this family a license to keep the deer.”
Now, she says, she views the couple in a new way.
“These were the last people I would have expected to abandon animals,” Collins says. “They sounded really nice. I thought, ‘Oh, they’re really wonderful. Most people would have just left the deer on the road.’”
As Collins spoke last Saturday, Juanita slept in the corner of her Estacada kitchen, rising only when enticed by a dangling banana. When 85-pound Juanita was rescued in September, she had a tumor that weighed at least 20 pounds.
“When we got her, she looked emaciated,” Collins says. “The vet said she was either full of parasites or it was a tumor.”
Bonita also appeared to have a tumor, so both pigs underwent surgery. Bonita didn’t make it. Her belly wrap became loose in the night following the surgery, and after she opened one of the stitches, she died of internal bleeding at the vet’s office.
Juanita recovered after being spoon-fed applesauce, while Lolita (the healthiest of the bunch) also rebounded quickly. Pigs usually get their hooves trimmed every four months, but none appeared to have had their hooves trimmed in quite some time, Hill and Collins say.
All told, the pigs’ vet bills came to about $1,500.
As the pigs underwent surgery and slowly recovered, Filipetti and Mantei were continuing their legal battle to keep Snowball. This fall, their case went before the Oregon Court of Appeals with the help of noted animal-rights lawyer Geordie Duckler. The court sided with the state. But Duckler has said he plans to petition the Oregon Supreme Court for a review.
Matt Rossell of In Defense of Animals says he contacted Duckler in early October to ask the lawyer whether the couple was willing to contribute money to the pigs’ care and to find out why they had left them behind. Rossell, who thought there might have been a mistake, says Duckler told him he’d get back to him. Two months later, he still hasn’t.
“I would assume if there was a mix-up he would have bent over backward to clear it up,” Rossell says. “This information could really jeopardize his clients’ ongoing case with Snowball.”
Duckler told WW on Monday Filipetti and Mantei had other animals in Molalla. But he did not know what happened to them after the couple temporarily moved out of state. “I’m assuming they’re being taken care of,” Duckler says.
Duckler said he would ask Filipetti to call WW. But as of press time Tuesday, Filipetti hadn’t.
Rossell isn’t ready to forgive.
“This is a complete snow job,” Rossell says. “I really believe the public has a right to know. [Filipetti] had so many people rooting for him. And as it turns out, it appears he has really neglected these animals.”

FACT: Filipetti and Mantei filed a civil suit in Clackamas County Circuit Court last year, alleging defamation of character because state officials had called the couple’s actions illegal. No damages were awarded, but the state did issue an apology.
Find this story at www.wweek.com/editorial/3505/11962

[jvp]

Originally Posted by Rusty Psoadman

That assumes that we're all satisfied with the level of service.

it isn't the level but the quality of service that is my issue

[deerbeware]

We need to train city officers about the fish and game laws. A lot of the people that poach live in citys and if the city officers realize what they are looking for maybe some good things could happen.

[hawg boss]

Originally Posted by deerbeware

We need to train city officers about the fish and game laws. A lot of the people that poach live in citys and if the city officers realize what they are looking for maybe some good things could happen.

I think that one of the things that helps poachers get away with poaching is that there are deer and elk seasons open for 7 months out of the year.