Columbia Bar

[dlgobeavs]

I originally posted this in the "general" section... but I think it is more appropriate over here...

Greetings all:

I have been around boats all my life...crossed the Newport Bar/ Tillamook Bar 1/2 dozen times... and this year for the first time have gone across the CR Bar 3 times... all uneventful crossings. The fact that theyhave been uneventful worries me greatly, because I believe it is lulling me into a false sense of confidence regarding my abilities.

I CLEARLY don't have the knowledge that I would like about what makes for safe conditions crossing the CR Bar. I know some basics 1) I look at the swell forecast and wind chop forecast to determine if getting across will even be worth the trip 2) I make sure to time my trips so that I am only crossing on flood tides and slack.

My question is this... is there anyplace I can go (Coast Guard, indpendent class...etc) that can teach me some of the intangibles that only a very experienced navigator would know about conditions and safety?

I'm sure my ignorance will show by my list lacking key ingredients in understanding when it is safe to cross the CR Bar... but here is my list of things I would love to learn.

1. How does current affect the bar?
2. Where can I go to see forecasts for those currents?
3. How does direction of swell and wind affect CR Bar conditions?
4. Based on the above... which part of the bar is safest to cross at particular times?
5. What am I missing?????

I am finding myself more and more drawn to fishing in the ocean.... and would love to be as safe as possible!

Maybe one or two of you veterans could coordinate a class to teach some of us rookies? Maybe in conjunction with the Coast Guard providing their input?

Just a thought from a relative rookie.

Dave

[kamloops]

That's an interesting idea you have on a class.

Don't know of anything offered, but you can find priv. Merchant Marine Schools in Seattle offering seamanship and navagation classes. Or you could check out some Community Colleges, Power Squadron or simular courses offered to the public.
The Merchant Marine schools are meant to provide education for Able Seaman wishing to advance or aquire their Coast Guard Licenses.
As far as Local C.R. River knowledge you should do what most local Columbia Charter Skippers gain their knowledge, start out as a Deck Hand on Dad's fishing boat, than aquire your own craft, in most cases these were Commercial Salmon trollers or equal and get many hundreds of bar crossings under your belt.
I don't think you can teach local knowledge or everything you need to know, you got to live these things yourself and learn by your mistakes, ask thousands and thousands of questions till you think your a child , but I don't know how else you can learn.

[Zodman]

Greetings from another I-fish Fry. I have been crossing the CR since 1960 and also probably take to much for granted. IE the bouy 6 death yesterday. One of the main issues I consider in my bar crossings is the current. There are several computer programs that will give you that info by the day and hour and even run a graph for you to take with you. Usually it is a very good idea to avoid crossing 1 1/2 to 2 hours from max current run off. Generally crossing on a flood current is also a good time.
Running the red line is probably one of the better routes, but as the run off increases you can run into some large standing waves in the bouy 12 to 14 area. If you know your routes you can usually find some soft water just outside the red cans but watch your depth, it and get down to 15 to 30 feet very quick. You can also call the USCG on chan 16 and request a bar report, they will usually respond on channel 22.
Going out the green bouy line (North) is usually the roughest and you need to pick your time very carefully. Cutting across the flats on the South side can be a smoother ride but when the water depth is 20 to 30 feet that entire area, you can run into a Breaker very easily, so be very careful. You did not say what length boat you were in, a smaller boat size means more caution needed. I am in a 42' I will watch for some more specific questions if you have some, also I moor in Hammond, if you happen to launch there. Please remember to WEAR your life jackets, have a GPS with you and a VHS radio so you can give your location on Channel 16 if you run into any trouble. A cell phone does not cut it.

[Pilar]

dlgobeavs ... this is a very involved subject. The good thing is that you are aware that you need to know more. Because of that I will not worry about you.

There are general things to know and you mention some of them. One you did not mention is the phase of the moon VS. the size of the tide. The full and new moon will generate the largest tidal exchanges. The speed of the current follows the size of the tide. => the current is the worst at new and full moon. At the 1/4's the tide change is minimal and the current much less.

CR is special because it puts you on a time table. The rule I follow there is to run upwind once I get out to the fishing grounds. The run home is downwind and you are less likely to get caught out in the big blow and delayed beyond your planned tide stage. If you planned to cross going in at high slack and get delayed 2 hours because you had to run north into the wind for 2 or 3 hours .... you will arrive at the bar during max ebb.

This trap is there for you if you run south of the sparkplug ( south of the bar ) and then the North wind kicks up in the afternoon. If this happens on say a full moon then the tide will be high at noon or 1 and that is also when the afternoon wind show often begins. Run that scenario through your head and think about what would happen to anyone who got a late start back in.

This has happened to me and I spent a long day chilling out behind the south jetty waiting for the moon to circle the world and watching the breakers on the bar. Once the tide changed again we went in. 8 hours after we should have done so.

This place is an acquired taste and the fishing is good. I have fished it alot in the past but seldom go there anymore. It's just too much to deal with and the place kills people.

[8knots]

Keep picking the best days and the best times. With that you will continue to gain the confidence, as even on those days you will encounter lots of variance in the conditions. I have been fishing out of CR for the last 13 years. The last month I have been over a dozen times. One day when the forecast was okay it turned out very bad..the Coast Guard was fulltime busy towing and on the radio they expressed surprise at how the conditions had changed. Other days when it seems like the forecast is marginal the conditions will be very good. Listen to the CR Bar forecast on the VHF as it will give you a good feel for the worst times to avoid. I also listen and look online for the forecast from Cape Shoalwater up the WA Coast as it can often be a additional indicator of the conditions off the CR. By listening to that forecast along with the others it can give you a bigger picture. The CR jsut represents so many variables.It is one place that is a true on -going learning experience.

[rags]

I am not a Salty Dog and only fish inside but I have checked out some classes available. If you check Clatsop Community College's website they have several classes that you are looking for. They are located in Astoria.

[gonzoray]

Have a program called Tides. Its a small program, fits on a floppy shows all the tides and currents along west coast and columbia river. When youset it for the columbia river bar it graphs it for you. When it drops into the red, don't cross! I read the zodman's post and I think he's right on.Contact me for more info. Ray