Good news so far in NE for deer

[ehunter]

This was taken from a channel 6 web site but it is good news hopefully they can recouver from last winter.



BAKER CITY, Ore. (AP) - It's fat city in the countryside of Eastern Oregon's Baker County.

A moist and mild fall has turned the meadows green and the mule deer plump.

That's a good sign for the deer and for the two-legged shooters who prey on them.

"It's a phenomenal green-up," said Brian Ratliff, a wildlife biologist at the Oregon Department of Fish and Wildlife's Baker City office. "The deer are set for a good winter."

Once the snow comes, the deer not only expend more energy getting through the drifts, but also burn extra calories just to stay warm, he said.

When wintry weather fades into spring, every pound a deer adds during the fall means extra survival time.

Ratliff said he and district wildlife biologist Nick Myatt looked at dozens of deer that hunters killed during last month's season.

Almost all the deer had ample fat reserves, Ratliff said.

The weather has been so benign, that many deer have yet to descend to winter range, where even during hard winters the snow doesn't get too deep and the temperatures are at least slightly warmer than in the animals' summer range high in the mountains.

"If they haven't moved down yet, that means they're finding what they need higher up," Ratliff said.

That, too, is abnormal for Baker County.

Most years, snow has driven deer down to their winter range by the middle of November.

The bountiful forage is especially vital for deer because they are more vulnerable to harsh winters than are elk, bighorn sheep and mountains goats, Ratliff said.

But, Ratliff said, other species such as chukars and other upland game birds are also fattening up during the benevolent weather and abundant grass.

[GameChaserFid]

Yeah that is good news for sure. Maybe it will be a good, mild winter for the deer. But if not a mild winter atleast they have been adding the lbs up just in case. Thanks for sharing. GCF

[snowplow]

And my brother inlaw grew up in baker. It takes six or eight prefrence points to get a buck tag!! He's not a happy camper. The cougar have gone up10x in the last 5 years, per his dad. His old man cuts wood and shoots, on average 1 coug every other year off of the road within 15 miles of Baker city. I currently have 9 preference points for cow in the one of the sumpter units. Last year was the last time for that. In five years the cow hunt has gone from 250 something to 50 tags for cows. I'm thinking this was n. sumpter unit.

[gweedo#1]

Fattend up for the kitty cats...

[spottedhawk36]

yep, hearing of a mild winter use to be great news for us hunters but now days there are so many cats that they still hammer on the deer herds bad winter or not.

[ehunter]

Actually thats not totally true it allows the pray animals a better chance because they are not in such a weakened state and they can run without snow. Remember frozen crusty snow allows preditors to run on top and catch floundering deer. Now I am not mistaking the fact that we have too many cats or what they do to the herds I agree with all on that.

[spottedhawk36]

Good point ehunter, but there are still TOO MANY cats!!!! lol

[ehunter]

Oh I gotcha you ment bottom line too many dang cats now I am with you

Probably makes it harder to hunt cats now though in all honesty if they are not hanging out at the local deer pound.

I think that they should allow hunters to take as many cats as possible until the quota is taken. I mean if one hunter can take 4 cats good for him I would be happy to buy a tag and donate it to him I don't live in cat country and it is hard to find one. Maybe we could lobby OFWD to allow us to give away our Portland tags to those guys who could use them. Maybe it would be a state wide party hunt

Originally Posted by spottedhawk36

Good point ehunter, but there are still TOO MANY cats!!!! lol

[gweedo#1]

Originally Posted by ehunter

Oh I gotcha you ment bottom line too many dang cats now I am with you

Probably makes it harder to hunt cats now though in all honesty if they are not hanging out at the local deer pound.

I think that they should allow hunters to take as many cats as possible until the quota is taken. I mean if one hunter can take 4 cats good for him I would be happy to buy a tag and donate it to him I don't live in cat country and it is hard to find one. Maybe we could lobby OFWD to allow us to give away our Portland tags to those guys who could use them. Maybe it would be a state wide party hunt

What about those big coyotes they are letting into oregon from idaho?? Our game herds dont have chance with the broken system we have now...

[ehunter]

I hear you I have been one of the most vocal about them.

Originally Posted by gweedo#1

What about those big coyotes they are letting into oregon from idaho?? Our game herds dont have chance with the broken system we have now...

[VO2Max]

Originally Posted by gweedo#1

What about those big coyotes they are letting into oregon from idaho?? Our game herds dont have chance with the broken system we have now...

With all due respect and I am going to write this seeing both sides of the story: Why is the system broken? Meaning, hunting is for GAME MANAGEMENT... IF the kitty cat population is growing, the necessity for hunting therefore is reduced due to the NATURAL management of the game. I see your point and others re: more cats=less deer and I too, being a hunter, would love to see more deer/elk in the areas I hunt but we need not lose perspective in why hunting is allowed in the first place.

We are no longer subsistance hunting... if we need to eat that badly, we go to the store. I too love to eat the game that I harvest BUT most hunters at this point DO NOT hunt as their only means of filling the freezer. It is a recreational activity/hobbie/way of life for many and we are allowed to harvest animals as a means to manage deer/elk numbers... DNR is not in the business to supply hunters with game if I am not mistaken. I just write this to hit home the point of hunters becoming a bit too idealistic in that game was put on this earth for only us... kitties gotta eat too . Flame away!

[oregonmuley]

Originally Posted by VO2Max

With all due respect and I am going to write this seeing both sides of the story: Why is the system broken? Meaning, hunting is for GAME MANAGEMENT... IF the kitty cat population is growing, the necessity for hunting therefore is reduced due to the NATURAL management of the game. I see your point and others re: more cats=less deer and I too, being a hunter, would love to see more deer/elk in the areas I hunt but we need not lose perspective in why hunting is allowed in the first place.

We are no longer subsistance hunting... if we need to eat that badly, we go to the store. I too love to eat the game that I harvest BUT most hunters at this point DO NOT hunt as their only means of filling the freezer. It is a recreational activity/hobbie/way of life for many and we are allowed to harvest animals as a means to manage deer/elk numbers... DNR is not in the business to supply hunters with game if I am not mistaken. I just write this to hit home the point of hunters becoming a bit too idealistic in that game was put on this earth for only us... kitties gotta eat too . Flame away!

Not sure there is enough flame to respond to some of your commits in this post.

[ehunter]

Yep this is a hunting forum and I will get kicked off for a response to your post maybe your trolling looking to kick up some dust. Sorry I am hand wringing but not typing. Your weclome to your opnions as wrong as you may be.

Originally Posted by oregonmuley

Not sure there is enough flame to respond to some of your commits in this post.

[gweedo#1]

Originally Posted by VO2Max

With all due respect and I am going to write this seeing both sides of the story: Why is the system broken? Meaning, hunting is for GAME MANAGEMENT... IF the kitty cat population is growing, the necessity for hunting therefore is reduced due to the NATURAL management of the game. I see your point and others re: more cats=less deer and I too, being a hunter, would love to see more deer/elk in the areas I hunt but we need not lose perspective in why hunting is allowed in the first place.

We are no longer subsistance hunting... if we need to eat that badly, we go to the store. I too love to eat the game that I harvest BUT most hunters at this point DO NOT hunt as their only means of filling the freezer. It is a recreational activity/hobbie/way of life for many and we are allowed to harvest animals as a means to manage deer/elk numbers... DNR is not in the business to supply hunters with game if I am not mistaken. I just write this to hit home the point of hunters becoming a bit too idealistic in that game was put on this earth for only us... kitties gotta eat too . Flame away!

WOW!!! You have no clue!!! If everyone thought like you Burger king would be our way of life...I will leave it at that...

[VO2Max]

Do you all mean to tell me that you honestly believe that hunting was put here to serve you.. the hunter? It was developed as a management tool for the control of the proliferation of game and the control of the population. now, Teddy Roosevelt perhaps was the initiator of bringing hunting into the limelight as a recreational activity but the underlying reason for hunting was pure and simple meant for management of species. Can you not see that?

I know this is a very touchy subject and sorry for totally hijacking this dude's post but I just thought it was time to bring this sort of thing up. Animals are not here for our consumption... If we are able to hunt them it is a privilege in my opinion. sorry to have caused a few panties to be ruffled...

[fishin]

Originally Posted by VO2Max

Do you all mean to tell me that you honestly believe that hunting was put here to serve you.. the hunter? It was developed as a management tool for the control of the proliferation of game and the control of the population. now, Teddy Roosevelt perhaps was the initiator of bringing hunting into the limelight as a recreational activity but the underlying reason for hunting was pure and simple meant for management of species. Can you not see that?

I know this is a very touchy subject and sorry for totally hijacking this dude's post but I just thought it was time to bring this sort of thing up. Animals are not here for our consumption... If we are able to hunt them it is a privilege in my opinion. sorry to have caused a few panties to be ruffled...

[Rank Amateur]

Biggame meat alone is equal to 2 million beef cattle a year consumed. So I think your thoughts are a little askew, yes hunters hunt for the meat and for the recreation.

Again the point is missed that us hunters want the cougars/ wolves managed, that doesn't mean exterminated.

[Rank Amateur]

Oh yeah, thanks for the update ehunter, I was suspicioning the east side was to the plus side for game animals so far this year. Interesting to note that the bio's were looking at the fat levels on the deer. Interesting that we had a good green up, that is always good news. There were lots of fawns in Desolation this year, so hopefully they can pull off a high percentage of recruitment into the herd next June.

Still have a long winter to go, but they do say that the condition of the animal going into winter is usually more important than the winter it self. I would think that is on average, we could still get a killer winter with crusted snow ect.

[chromebright]

Originally Posted by VO2Max

With all due respect and I am going to write this seeing both sides of the story: Why is the system broken? Meaning, hunting is for GAME MANAGEMENT... IF the kitty cat population is growing, the necessity for hunting therefore is reduced due to the NATURAL management of the game. I see your point and others re: more cats=less deer and I too, being a hunter, would love to see more deer/elk in the areas I hunt but we need not lose perspective in why hunting is allowed in the first place.

We are no longer subsistance hunting... if we need to eat that badly, we go to the store. I too love to eat the game that I harvest BUT most hunters at this point DO NOT hunt as their only means of filling the freezer. It is a recreational activity/hobbie/way of life for many and we are allowed to harvest animals as a means to manage deer/elk numbers... DNR is not in the business to supply hunters with game if I am not mistaken. I just write this to hit home the point of hunters becoming a bit too idealistic in that game was put on this earth for only us... kitties gotta eat too . Flame away!

Ok, they can come to your house and eat your cats and dogs. I love it when people in the city start talking about and dictating wildlife policy. I don’t claim to live in an area that is directly affected by such topics, but I also would not start supporting cats without them being in my backyard.

[gweedo#1]

Originally Posted by VO2Max

Do you all mean to tell me that you honestly believe that hunting was put here to serve you.. the hunter? It was developed as a management tool for the control of the proliferation of game and the control of the population. now, Teddy Roosevelt perhaps was the initiator of bringing hunting into the limelight as a recreational activity but the underlying reason for hunting was pure and simple meant for management of species. Can you not see that?

I know this is a very touchy subject and sorry for totally hijacking this dude's post but I just thought it was time to bring this sort of thing up. Animals are not here for our consumption... If we are able to hunt them it is a privilege in my opinion. sorry to have caused a few panties to be ruffled...

Tell me MR.Smarty Pants what are animals put on this earth for?? Hunting is our GOD given right to put food on table and for someone to sit here and tell me that "Animals are not here for our consumption" has got to have a few loose peta marbles rolling around up stairs...

[VO2Max]

Haha! that gave me a chuckle! PETA!!! haha. I am in no way saying that I do not want hunting to be a part of our culture, my life nor yours. What I AM SAYING is this... if you/everyone is so concerned with the Cougar population, give up one season of your elk/deer hunting and hunt over a cougar killed elk and kill that cat. Get all of your friends to do the same thing and before long, in that area and others the cat population will be reduced.

I AM A HUNTER!!!!! some of you are taking this as if I am saying that hunting is wrong. I, in no way ever, have said nor will I say it or infer it. I have hunted for 18 years and will NEVER stop doing so unless my body or mind fails me.
As far as being a PETA representative and being "city folk" HAHAHA!!! I grew up in a town of 1500 people in upstate NY, probably smaller than most of the people on this board. What i have done is brought up a different perspective everyone and I have challenged "popular" (on this board) opinion.

As far as why game animals are here... Well, I still am not of the opinion that they are here for our consumption. However, I do believe that we have a responsibility to think of all sides of the story in every situation and that includes taking personal responsibility to be proactive instead of placing the blame game on ODFW that it is their responsibility to get rid of the cats because your hunting trip will be spoiled!!! Give me a break on that one.

I had not thought of the Cougars coming into towns/cities and taking cats and dogs... an oversight and i apologize. Again however, no-one is stopping you from hunting cougars.

Keep it coming folks...

[Rank Amateur]

It is ODF&W's responsibility to manage all wildlife in the state. Some species need little management and some need extensive management. Predators, I believe fall into the second category. You do understand that ODF&W currently has the authority to use hounds via public agents to hunt and control cougar populations and have chosen not to do so at this time???? This is what is sticking in many sportsmen craws, we have simply been ignored by the departments fear of a lawsuit by the anti's and some grumbling in the legislature.

Can you tell me how many ungulates are taken by the current estimate of 6,000 cougars in Oregon??? Please take the time to get informed on the effects of a large cougar population.

You are correct, we all should spend more time trying to harvest cougars, but I feel you are incorrect that we as sportsmen can control the cougar population through hunting with the current methods. We are currently harvesting more cougars now than in any time in Oregon's history.

[CombinationLicense]

:lurk:

"CL"

[baltz526]

Originally Posted by VO2Max

With all due respect and I am going to write this seeing both sides of the story: Why is the system broken? Meaning, hunting is for GAME MANAGEMENT... IF the kitty cat population is growing, the necessity for hunting therefore is reduced due to the NATURAL management of the game. I see your point and others re: more cats=less deer and I too, being a hunter, would love to see more deer/elk in the areas I hunt but we need not lose perspective in why hunting is allowed in the first place.

We are no longer subsistance hunting... if we need to eat that badly, we go to the store. I too love to eat the game that I harvest BUT most hunters at this point DO NOT hunt as their only means of filling the freezer. It is a recreational activity/hobbie/way of life for many and we are allowed to harvest animals as a means to manage deer/elk numbers... DNR is not in the business to supply hunters with game if I am not mistaken. I just write this to hit home the point of hunters becoming a bit too idealistic in that game was put on this earth for only us... kitties gotta eat too . Flame away!

your flaw in logic comes from the fact that cougars are not being managed to excepted numbers in oregon. so all your thoughts are basicly misdirected

[VO2Max]

Originally Posted by Rank Amateur

It is ODF&W's responsibility to manage all wildlife in the state. Some species need little management and some need extensive management. Predators, I believe fall into the second category. You do understand that ODF&W currently has the authority to use hounds via public agents to hunt and control cougar populations and have chosen not to do so at this time???? This is what is sticking in many sportsmen craws, we have simply been ignored by the departments fear of a lawsuit by the anti's and some grumbling in the legislature.

Can you tell me how many ungulates are taken by the current estimate of 6,000 cougars in Oregon??? Please take the time to get informed on the effects of a large cougar population.

You are correct, we all should spend more time trying to harvest cougars, but I feel you are incorrect that we as sportsmen can control the cougar population through hunting with the current methods. We are currently harvesting more cougars now than in any time in Oregon's history.

You know, during work today I gave it some more thought about the ban on hunting cougars with Dogs... a bad decision in my opnion. That practice was effective and seemed to do a great job at controlling numbers while it was a legal form of harvesting cougars. I found an interesting link to an ODFW study...http://www.dfw.state.or.us/agency/co...%20summary.pdf
and most interesting in the data related to the decreased harvest of Cougars due to Measure 18 being passed. I think where it went wrong was when the media got its hands on it and saw the 'poor little kitty' being treed and then shot. "In-Humane" cried many and the law was passed to ban the practice.

I guess if one was to look at that practice from a purely "ethical" sense i GUESS I can see from where they were coming. I do understand where everyone on this topic is coming from and from what it sounds, you do understand from where I may be bringing up atleast a valid point (albeit arguable )?

Growing up in a state where the only real predator is Man and only having lived in OR and WA for the past 6 years, I guess it may be hard for me to understand the real change in Cougar numbers and as a result of seeing some of the data I can see where everyone is coming from. BUT, I think it is our responsibility to take more cougars if in fact we feel this strongly about the subject don't you all?

So... with all of this being say I still do believe that ODFW is doing its job and attempting to determine adequate harvest rates and is attempting to get the job done by ensuring adequate opportunity throughout the state... unless I am mistaken? The season open to Cougar harvest is Jan. 1 - May 31 and Aug. 1 - Dec. 31 which is a rather long season if you ask me. In areas where cougars are prevalent can guys get out there for some "scouting" and have at it! Unless ODFW overturns the ban on dog hunting for them hunters have to go about it a different way. Even on ODFW's website http://www.dfw.state.or.us/wildlife/cougar/ when searching for "cougar" you will see that they consider the increase in cougar numbers to be an ODFW success story........

Where i get off track is when someone says that an "eradication" of the species is called for. Not saying that is what all here are saying but that is what i have heard in some circles. Cougars are a natural part of the ecosystem which can and do regulate their own numbers... to a point. And as others have mentioned and I took note of, when people, pets and livestock are in danger, something is amiss.

I guess another thing I did not think of until now is that perhaps ODFW could learn from you all with the hundreds of hours in the field and the encounters you all seem to have with the animals? Have you called ODFW? Have you written? Have you suggested that they have an officer shadow you during one of your outings to see what you see when you see it? Get pro-active... get involved... this is obviously a hot-button issue and you all are very passionate about it. Get out there and do something about it whether that be harvesting more cats yourself or going through the proper channels legally. It's a ***** but someone has to do it.

[whtelk]

boring.....

[Rank Amateur]

VO2Max, thanks for taking the time to read up on the cougar problem.

We hear you about the need to try and target cougars more, but if you look at the cougar tag sales, the sportsmen of Oregon have done that, a whole lot more people have bought tags, in fact a ton more. Many of us have changed our attitude when it has come to cougars, it used to be when the hounds were used that many of us could have cared less to take a cougar, they were cool to see, if you ever got to see one. But now most all of us carry a tag and actually are looking to get a cat. I predator hunt a lot more locally, but I need to go East specifically looking for cats, it is a great opportunity.

Yes, the season is very long, but the method of harvest is extremely tough, cats are very sneaky. Simply put the harvest has not exceeded recruitment.

The ethics of cat hunting is an odd thing, with hounds the people could be selective in harvest and they had a treed cat with which to make a very clean shot on. Now sportsmen are forced to take the first cat they see, take running shots ect.. In my opinion, the dog hunting was technically more ethical. There may have been some unethical practices, but they should have only banned those practices, not the method.

ODF&W could do more... they could offer additional tags, most years quota's go unfilled, unfilled quota's do not roll over into the next years. Non-residents are basically priced out of the cougar tag market. The two month gap in the season could go away, there is no biological reason for it. They could also start using the volunteer agents with hounds to start reducing the population to the management objective.

Yep, cougars are a success story, but the deer and elk are turning into a non-success story quickly. All we want is balance.

Oh, the answer was 273,000 ungulates a year. Don't that knock your socks off???

[otterduck1]

Yummmm,
Deer fat! That's a reminder to take a couple of greasy NE OR deer steaks out of the freezer from this year. Oh and those cougars? Holy every name in the book! THe one I saw this year from 50 yds put the spook on me. It had been watching me- unkowing to me while dragging my deer. Nothing like turning around and having a 30 ssecond face-off with that thing. THat's the last time I put all my shells in my pack for safety to drag my deer. I'm thinking one of those stock shell holders looks pretty nice. I've seen several cougars that I considered big, and now I can say I saw a Mountain LION! I can't even imagine how many deer that thing eats per year!

[Silver Eagle]

I'm at Eagle Crest and all the deer on the Golf course look Fat...

[desertjunky]

Just take a minute to read the first page of the 2009 hunting regs, its a commitment statement from the Director Roy Elicker, they are going to try and turn things around for the muledeer in 4 unit! for now, why not the whole state? If the game dept. had started the mandatory on-line harvest report back when WA did they might have a clue of what is really going on in the woods! I think in just a couple years you will see how bad things have really gotten, and again they are ignoring the real problem, PREDATORS!!!! Sure deer numbers were high prior to the devastating winter of 92-93, but because of the low numbers since then, and the lack of predator control the numbers just have not been able to rebound. I spoke to a fella who hunted antelope in Wyoming this year he said the time they were there they never saw a coyote, and very little sign, yet the antelope numbers are high enough to support them, the answer is GOVERNMENT CONTROL OF PREDATORS!!!
The ODFW has to step up to the plate and ignore the emotions of the general public and stick with the best available science, which is population control with the use of hounds. How many other rediculas states beside WA, OR, and CA let the voting public decide wildlife management issues!! ABSURD! You might as well go and let a carpenter mark out your property lines instead of a licensed land surveyor! It makes no sense, oh wait thats right government is not about common sense, nevermind.
Coyote from central oregon, how many deer and antelope fawns did this save?

[Blacktail Slayer]

The two month gap may help take pressure off deer and elk feeding and taking care of young. I think all those lion tag sales are people who are not hunting lions, but rely on luck while deer and elk hunting.

[Blacktail Slayer]

Hey I like your pic Desertjunky. I did some trapping this past summer in NE OR and got a few yotes.