Upland Bird Wing Please?

[Benny]

Hi, anyone in Corvallis have spare parts? I've seen a lot of upland posts lately and if you haven't tossed the feathers in the garbage or turned them into Royal Coachman flies...Well we adopted our first dog and she's 1/2 GSP but has a 100% interest in birds.

I live in Adair Village which is pretty much Corvallis, so anyone in the region with a pheasant, grouse, quail, pigeon, dove, bald eagle (just kidding) wing, PM or whatever.

Thanks!

[Lucky Guy]

Call Randy at Hedgerow Kennel in Shedd, he ought to have something around. I've got some I could send you if you strike out there.

[ogrejager]

Benny,

I'm going pheasant hunting Friday and I live in the Kings Valley area. I'll save you a few wings. Drop me a PM this weekend and we'll schedule a get together.

[rimrock]

What do you need a bird wing for? I can't think of anything I'd do in training a upland birddog where a bird wing is part of the program.

[Benny]

well like I said, I'm pretty new, and I got the impression that planting the wing and working on point and retrieve would be helpful.

I'm waiting for my copy of "How to help a gundog teach itself" by Joan Bailey, but until then I'm pretty clueless on where to start. Hence the e-collar thread last week.

Emma shows a lot of interest in birds, but she's RAW, and needs lots of work. Foundational stuff first, like a solid "come," knowing the difference between "whoa" and "come."

I'm as green as she is.

[salty dog]

I'm on my third English setter and I used bird wings with all of them when they were pups. Great to teach "whoa" and to hold a staunch point. Just tie to a fishing rod with 10-15 feet of line and jerk it away if the dog breaks point. They'll get the idea after several tries.

You can also buy quail chicks in the spring and use them as planted birds. Just remember to keep 1-2 in the call-back pen so the rest of the covey will return.

[rimrock]

When it comes to pointing, that’s genes. You can’t teach a dog to point. How old is the dog? Bailey’s book is good exposure stuff, not so much dog training. An easy read and I think you’ll like it. For training Delmar Smith still is kind of that standard in pointing dog world, good stuff.

As for wing-on-a-string if you must fine, but you’d be far better off breaking the fishing pole and be done with it. It only serves to reinforce sight pointing which if entrained too much in the dog will cause problems down the road. A sight point exercise here or there is fine, but use it to train the dog you will have problems. No top-notch trainer would ever think about using wing-on-a-string to train a dog to point, whoa, staunch a dog, or anything other than a one-time game (or again better not at all).

If you want to work on play retrieve great…work all kinds of objects with the dog on a check cord. Even work up to a frozen bird is great…again on a check cord until the dog really understands “come/here”. Much more can be said for play retrieve but just wanted to drive home wing-on-a-sting is full of problems.

[Linejerk]

RimRock you realy know your stuff with the dogs are you a trainer, vet or just realy into it???

[Benny]

Emma is about 1 year old (perhaps a few months over). She points when we're walking through EE Wilson, but she's become really interested in varmint holes and spends more than 50% of that effort than scanning the brush.

I've literally only had her 3 full days, and since she's a rescue I don't want to push her too hard.

You said sight pointing, but I was thinking about going out and hiding it in the scrub or kicking grass & debris over it. No good?

[Don Fischer]

This must be what you were talking about. You've only had her three days, keep socializing. Keep walking her over on the old army site and if she's pointing holes, shes pointing. All you'll have to do is follow up on it later. You could do the wing on a string thing but it won't prove a thing. I'd guess she'd point it but then you take a piece ao cloth and use it instead of the wing and she'd still point it.

Start looking for pigeons and set yourself up a coop. first thing you know you'll need one. Also as rimrock said, the Delmar Smith book, written by Bill Tarrent (The Best Way to Train Your Bird Dog, The Delmar Smith Method). it's an old book and some say that his son rick has improved his methods. Maybe, maybe not. I've been using his method for 20+ years with good results. Everything I have learned has it's roots in that book, it's a master piece!

Now while your happy timing her, talking walks and letting her run, Keep your mouth shut unless you are positive she'll do as you want. Set her up to do as you want. You want her in front so for now, while your walking her, no matter where your going, keep facing her. If she's coming in close and you can call her in, do it and make a fuss over her.

I'm reading a manuscript for a new book that a guy in the midwest is writting. Looks like it will be a good book for people like you. It is aimed at the first time owner. Sorry I can't let you see it. Not sure when it will get printed, I'm sending it back next monday.

Anyway, go thru obedience with her, just make her stand still when your told to stop, if it's alright with the instructor. Early on the people will tell their dog to sit when their told to stop, you tell your's whoa and stop her and have her stand still. When they get to the recall, they'll start by having you take one step forward and turn to face your dog. Keep your dog standing. Wish I was closer, I'd show you how to make a leash that will stop her. Simple really. 6' piece of tight woven nylon 3/8th or 7/16th rope. Tie a snap on one end with a bowline knot. Make the knot loose so that when the snap is on the dogs collar and you pull forward gently, the knot will come up right under the chin.

When your standing in front of the dog and it tries to move, pop it under the chin with that knot. If she sits down on you, step back and lift her with the lead. Soon as her butt comes off the floor let the pressure off the lead and say whoa again. To lift her, raise your arm a bit and pull toward you gently till her butt starts coming up. You want to pull up to help her come up. You should have whoa well underway in no time if an instructor will let you do that.

Next thing to do is contact the Green Valley Hunting and Retriever Club in Eugene. Look up Jim Shank or Stan Zorn in the phone book there. Stan is an insurance agent and Jim appliance repair. Great club with great training days in the spring and summer. They'll help you. Tell them I said hi.

[Benny]

I think I'm getting the impression that obedience comes first. When you say "before you know it, you'll need a bird..." how will I know? I'm equally concerned with her losing that interest in birds.

[DogZilla15]

As usual, RimRock is on top of things. Don also knows his stuff and gives great pointers, pun intended.

You'll never know what a dog can deliver till you take it hunting a lot. Training is to fill in the rough spots that are not covered by natural ability, like force fetch, steadiness etc.

The fact that your dog is a mixed breed, I wouldn't set my expectations very high. If you want a hunting dog, buy a hunting dog. You can't make a silk purse out of a sow's ear.....

[Benny]

Right, no I'm just trying to hone and maintain the abilities that she has. Her nose might not be as strong, but the determination is there.

Mixed or not, she's a great dog.

[ogrejager]

Well, I've got a 8-10 pheasant wings now. Saved 'em for you. Do you want them?