OSP at South Beach

MasterMariner · 08-18-2003, 01:26 PM

I don't have any regs with me, but it is illegal to posses fish in the field that one can not determine size, species or fin clip. I think its in the front around the general prohibitions. I'de be careful, because the dock can still be considered "in the field."

PBR Streetgang · 08-18-2003, 03:39 PM

There were two game officers there on Sunday. One looked pretty cool, I talked to him about what they do with confiscated fish. The other seemed to have a serious case of the Wyatt Earp syndrome, strutting around like he owned the place. I saw him cite a guy for a non-fin clipped coho. I bet the guy you dealt with was Wyatt Earp. Never be afraid to tell a cop where to go, they can be wrong too.

Tim

crabbait · 08-18-2003, 05:29 PM

Never be afraid to tell a cop where to go? I witnessed this "tell a cop where to go" philosophy one time. As the cop was leading the guy away in handcuffs the guy was still telling the cop where to go: "What gives you the right to handcuff me and drag me away like this?" "Your're wearin my bracelets, that gives me the right!"

No thanks. I will stick with "yes officer, no officer, thank you, officer".

[ 08-18-2003, 06:30 PM: Message edited by: crabbait ]

Mark Mc · 08-18-2003, 05:50 PM

When you take the fish off the boat onto the dock, the fish has been "landed" on land. There is no requirement or expectation to wait around for a warden to say "yep, you've landed it, now you have our permission to clean it." Once it is on the dock, you can (a) drag it up to a cleaning station and fillet away; (2) put it back on your boat and clean it; (3) clean it on the dock (if there is a facility); (4) start eating it raw & biting off the head, or whatever you want to do with it.

Look at what they do at some of the charter landings, like at Newport Tradewinds. They start cleaning fish right there 20 feet from the stern of the boat.

The onus is on the regulators to be there to "inspect" your fish if they so choose. Now, if you get tagged for "mutilating fish so the size / species can not be determined" even though you legally landed it, you will almost certainly beat the rap in court if you have a witness. But you still have the hassle of time away from work (which can be 'lost pay') & long drives.

Disclaimer: I am not a lawyer; this is only my humble opinion.

gotfish76 · 08-18-2003, 06:36 PM

My buddy and me, also fished out of Newport on Sat and I ended up with a 23# chinook :grin: , he got none. At the dock he was checked with my fish while I was getting the truck, and never even checked him for a license, or a tag. He just said "it's my buddy's fish" and that was that. Kinda shocked me, guess it can go either way, must be the time of day

apparentgenius · 08-18-2003, 09:15 PM

I'll bet the OSP guy who hassled you was a guy by the name of Swede....6'plus with brown hair. He's a real horse's butt. I was cleaning crab one time along with 2 or 3 other groups and he started pulling shells out of the dumpster and came over to me to give me a warning for an undersize shell. When I asked him how he knew which one of the 100's of shells in there were mine, he just grunted. I also informed him that the shells change shape or bow in once you pull them off the crab...just gave me another dumb look.

PBR Streetgang · 08-18-2003, 09:53 PM

You know, that whole yes officer, no officer is a bunch of crap. If a cop is giving you a hard time I feel I have the right to give it back. An officer cannot arrest you for contempt of cop. The guy you saw in handcuffs was going to jail reagrdless. If a cop is cool to me and treats me with respect, that's what he gets in return. The marine deputy for Lincoln County is a prime example of an obnoxious cop, I told him to write me a ticket one day so I could get on to my fishing, he backed off and let me go.

Being an informed citizen goes a long way in preserving your rights. Just because a guy wears a badge doesn't give him the right to belittle you or lecture you for three hours.

If a cop hassles you, hold your hands out and tell him to arrest you, then settle it in court and if he's wrong, settle it in civil court. 99% of the time a cop giving joe citizen a hard time will back off and start acting like he's supposed to.

1pump · 08-18-2003, 10:39 PM

I'm with PBR. I don't treat cops any differently than I treat anyone else. Consequently, I don't disrespect them unless I get dissed first. Enforcing the law doesn't make you God. Fortunately, most cops feel the same way, but there always seems to be exceptions. :depressed:

Killertraylor · 08-18-2003, 11:58 PM

My wife and son and I stayed at the Embarcadero this weekend with ZZZzzz's and his wife and daughter and had a super weekend of fishing on the flat ocean. However, yesterday when we pulled the boat out at South Beach, we were approached by OSP to check our catch. I explained to him that we had moorage over at Embarcadero and that we had already unloaded our fish over there, cleaned them, etc. What suprised me is he asked to see my license and tag. I told him that I left them over in the hotel, where the fish were as I always thought the tag should be close by if anyone checked the fish. Nate was a bit worried as he had already filleted his fish - I told him he had nothing to worry about - you are allowed to fillet your fish once you return to shore - whether it be the Embarcadero or another port. :smile: The officer proceeded to write down my boat number and the word "Embarcadero" on his hand (a real rocket scientist, this guy). He didn't hassle us any longer, but I was somewhat suprised that he would check for licenses when we didn't have any fish on board and had already returned to port once at the conclusion of our trip. Does anyone have their regs handy regarding when your fish can be butchered? I seem to recall that you can't fillet them on the water, as they need to be able to check the whole fish at the dock, but that you can gut and gill them.

jphelps · 08-19-2003, 02:29 AM

I had a problem last year with a young pimple faced cadet who thought he was god. I had taken a groop of vietnam vetrans out sturgeon fishing on a friday. The water kicked up and everything got wet including myself. The next day I took another group of vetrans out. We fished all day before we got into the bite just before we had to go in. I got 5 keepers to the boat in about 15 minutes. It was a real active fifteen. Anyway once the last one was in the boat and we were getting ready to lift anchor I noticed that my pen was not working. So I decided to go ahead and keep the fish since they were bleeding anyway and when I get to the dock I will get a pen from somebody before we load the boat. There happened to be a cadet on the dock checking somebody else's salmon. So I told everybody to stay in the boat and I went up to the cadet and asked him for a pen explaining to him that my pen was not working. He went to my boat and ticketed the guys for failing to tag game fish. The judge dropped the whole thing and told the cadet that it is his responsiblilty also to use "due disgretion" in his duties. I wanted so bad to smack that little punk for telling these disabled vietnam vetrans that they all need to learn a lesson about the law. And just because they were disable war vetrans does not mean that they can get away with not following the rules. These guys have a pretty easy job at the boat ramps. We are not violent criminals that they wish they could be harrasing. They should just have a little bit more tact in doing there job.

skein · 08-19-2003, 05:21 AM

Early in the year at Newport there were a couple of cops checking tags, etc, when a call came in that a boat was in trouble. These two dropped what they were doing, ran to their boat and beat the Coast Guard out to the disabled boat - a sailboat that had lost power and was just feet away from the pilings under the Yaquina bridge. They got a rope to him and pulled him far enough into the channel to miss the pilings. The CG arrived and got him under control and back into the harbor.

I'll bet that guy didn't cuss the cops.

Skein

Stryker · 08-19-2003, 07:09 AM

I personally have never had a bad experience with any law enforcement officers or coast guard personal. I have been on the water for twelve years and have been checked many times. I have always been happy to comply with any request. I think it helps to be prepared and courteous.
1) I have a Coast Guard inspection every year to get the little sticker.
2) I have a copy of the regs and addendums to the regs on the boat at all times.
3) I have at least 4 or 5 pins on the boat. When I take people with me fishing I explain it is there responsibility to see to it there tags are filled out correctly. I will help them but it is there responsibility.
4) I am a HAM radio guy so I follow radio etiquette to the letter.
5) My boat is always in tiptop shape.
6) I never overload my boat.
7) Everyone whereas PFD�s in the ocean or in rough water. Kids were them all the time.

And perhaps I have just been lucky!

DriftR · 08-19-2003, 10:12 AM

I have never been in favor of disrespecting a police officer. Sure there must be some hot head police. But then again do you want to be the person next in line with your family waiting to be checked when some guy or group of guys goes off on a police officer? I try and be civil even if the person checking me shows a hostile attitude. No need to make a scene or bad mouth them in return. Just take their badge number down and file a formal complaint if necessary. I just think we need enforcement like we need fences. Way to many people try and get away with stepping over the line or limit. I know that I would not want to be in their shoes doing what they do for the pay they receive.

Abalone · 08-19-2003, 10:26 AM

Imagine things from the officers view ! Talk to one sometime and hear their stories about the Characters they run into !

Streetwalker · 08-19-2003, 12:41 PM

I got ticket 5 miles off Garibaldi in July for not tagging out right away, the officers were very polite & even "trolled" along side us so we could keep 2 rods out. We hooked a fish while they were checking our tags & they told us to go ahead and break away to land it. When we got back to them I was the only one cited, they could have got all 4 of us. I wasn't happy about it but they didn't make anymore unpleasant than it had to be, I had it coming. I allways tag out right away now & even take the tags of those in my boat to assure that they do the same.

[ 08-19-2003, 01:42 PM: Message edited by: Streetwalker ]

Mojo · 08-19-2003, 01:04 PM

Years ago I found that if you greet the law enforcement folks with a smile and a wave, and comply with their request, they are ALWAYS pleasant. Even the ones with the meanest reputation. I've known and dealt with some real winners in the "lack of personality department". I'm sure that some days it is impossible, but if you are in the right, and following the laws, you will always win in court.

Joe, as to your situation, I guess you should have offered the nice officer a ride over to show him where your fish and tags were. Once he realized he'd be "off station" for a good while, he'd probably just say thanks for the offer, and walk away...

Pilar · 08-19-2003, 01:06 PM

IMHO, they smell bad attitude or fear the same way a dog does.

So, be legit all the time and exude confidence .. they'll go find someone to rescue or hassle instead of you. No need to be disrespectful. Just remember that you are taxed to pay for them doing the job they do.

They work for you.

puffins crew · 08-19-2003, 01:55 PM

I agree with Pilar. I have been taught to play by all the rules. Do it right, and don't get uptight. Respect works both ways.

Just as I have learned to tell the truth, that way I never have to remember what I said, or to whom I have said it to.

Peace, Tom

Killertraylor · 08-19-2003, 11:40 PM

Whoa! I didn't mean for this to be a cop bashing thread. I have the utmost respect for the police and always treat them with kindness and honesty. I am good friends with many police officers and fish with many of them. I am, however, quick to explain to them what the law is when they go astray. Being a lawyer and a former prosecutor, I know when they are oversteping their bounds. Young officers some times have trouble with the concept of probable cause when it comes to searches, but if you have a polite discussion with them about it, most issues resolve themselves.

This guy that was hassling us probably figured that I had fish onboard and just didn't want to be checked. When I explained to him that we already "landed our fish at the Embarcadero" he became suspicious and began asking us for our licenses, etc. - no problem, I explained where my license was - with the fish - and he kept pestering me. Anyway, I agree that the best way to deal with these gentlemen is to give them the utmost respect and honesty, but if they try to overstep their bounds, politely let them know it.

Skein - I was glad to see your post about them assisting another vessel in distress.

elkn · 08-20-2003, 07:31 AM

on 7-18 7-21 we fished out of newport, fished 200' of water, I just landed a fish, and set my line back in the water to get it out of the way. next thing I know osp wants to get in the boat, checks lic, tags, fish, and gives a ticket for not immediately tagging a fish. this is just a money grab thing, they know we live in redmond, 4 hour drive, so we just pay. not only this but he looked in all the little storage areas in the boat for fish

then started asking about our fish tag from a month before. so i said if you cant read the tag when i fill it out at sea should i just wait and do it at the dock? he just got mad and looked for more fish that he thought we had hid in the boat.

deepsix · 08-20-2003, 08:01 AM

I had a similar experience as elkn. The officer was very eager to board my boat. He asked my wife while I was getting out the boat registration. While in the boat he lifted the lid on a cooler and looked in a storage area. I have a problem with "guilty until proven innocent". What are the laws regarding OSP boarding a vessel while at sea?

Wang · 08-20-2003, 09:30 AM

I treat them with "yes sir" :no sir", but if they are wrong I will voice it and LOUDLY if needed. Im very careful with game laws and traffic laws as I understand with the economy and budget problems they are real quick to write a ticket to help get money for the local agency or the state. I just experienced this at traffic court recently. They dont hardly lower tickets at all.

I guess dealing with people who they have no idead who you or I are makes a cop the way they are, or at least most of them. They will mess with you to make you slip up.

I always wanted to be a officer but....

HawgJaw · 08-20-2003, 01:23 PM

It is my understanding that if you say "no" when they ask to board, then they can't. Just like when you are in your car. The time I was checked I let them board. I really wanted to say no, but I figured I could get back to fishing sooner if I agreed

. HJ

elkn · 08-20-2003, 01:43 PM

my thoughts also hawgjaw, but that did not work at all, and i was as nice as pie to this guy. next time no nice guy, I'll just go to jail.

PBR Streetgang · 08-20-2003, 03:29 PM

You have the right to say no to being boarded and or searched. Without probable cause the officer can go no further. As for the person who suggested taking the badge number and complaining, I have a bridge to sell you and a new way to pee into the wind without getting wet!!! Unless an officer does something grossly stupid, your complaints will always fall on deaf ears.

Tim

The Chub · 08-20-2003, 04:54 PM

Got checked by OSP this weekend on the Columbia. Guys were really nice, and just wanted to see my tag. They gave us a fishing report, and went on their way. Sorry about your hassles. If they asked to board my boat, I would most likley say yes. If you don't, you are gonna get a free tow, and alot of hassle.

larryb · 08-20-2003, 05:59 PM

you can tell osp no but they can hold you for the coast guard beleave me you do not want the coast called too your boat.

fisher-price · 08-20-2003, 07:11 PM

Okay here we go. It was my boat that the native fish came from. It was my responsibility to make sure all the fish were good. I made the mistake of not checking for myself. I listened to my two freinds that I have fished with for over 25 years and broken a reg. But again "It is my boat, so my responsibility." It was an accident and I cannot explain what happened that allowed an illegal fish to be put in the "box". However, it happened that's that.

Now to the "cop". I have, what you might say, a pretty checkered past. I spent a long time on the wrong side if you also know what I mean. So I have expereinced both sides. I have had expereinces with the best cops in the world and let me tell you the most crooked cops as well.

When I was a kid my friends were always being the tough guys. Yep, it took six cops to put "Bob" in the car but they weren't taking him home. The next time I saw "Bob" he was out of jail but had a brand new broken arm. I am not a stupid man. I caught on quick.

Yep if a cop is dissin you you sure can tell him where to go. My question is why? do you want to stoop to that level just because you may be right? I choose not to do that. Yep, and nope work very well. That's all it takes no more no less.

Now to the cop that wrote my freind a ticket. I was there. He was polite, he was professional, he was doing what he needed to do. He stated that he knew it was a mistake but he had to take action because of the number of people poaching fish at Newport for the past few weeks. Many people got fed up with all of the natives and got tired of all that fishing wiht no keepersand started to make the wrong choices.

We were in the wrong, enough said. The cop was okay. No lecture, no hardass attitude or anything else so I don't know where "Wyatt Earp" was.

Thanks for the opportunity to share. sorry about the swearing

f~p

fisher-price · 08-20-2003, 07:19 PM

one last word. After finding the illegal fish and listening to our story the cop wrote the ticket and left. He never came on the boat. He did not check any of the storage lockers, ices chest, boxes, bags, or anything else. I thought that was pretty cool considering what he could have done after finding that illegal fish.

f~p

Killertraylor · 08-21-2003, 08:37 AM

PBR Streetgang - there are exceptions to the probable cause rule and there is a statute in Oregon that states the police can search you if you are hunting or fishing. However, the statute is vague - it doesn't say they can search your boat, truck, etc. I think if it were ever challenged in court, the court would rule that the state can search your boat or truck if they have "reasonable suspicion" that a crime may have been committed. That still requires some knowledge on the part of the officer that a law may have been broken. Absent some report of another fisher or officer, I doubt the search would be ruled constitutional and any evidence found in that search would not be admissable in court. One of the exceptions to probable cause is consent - if you tell them yes, then you waive the protection of probable cause and they can search you.

I've only been asked one time if I could be searched and I just said "no" and the cop went to the next boat. Up until a few years ago I'd always say yes, but now I just don't want the hassle. I think in the future I'll just tell them that if I can come over to their house tonight and search in exchange, then sure :tongue: .

dolphinmarty · 08-21-2003, 12:45 PM

Killer...
Do you know if there is a mileage limit at sea where you no longer fall under the juristiction of OSP? I've heard 7 miles and 12 miles. Does OSP mandate as a federal agency when enforcing game laws or is this only the duty of the law enforcement arm of DFW?

MasterMariner · 08-21-2003, 03:06 PM

OSP is NMFS deputized and has authority/jurisdiction out to 200nm. Basically within the entire EEZ.

lost_sailor · 08-21-2003, 03:31 PM

They need to give a little leeway on the immediate tagging thing. I mean, you have to bonk it, unhook it, bleed it, slow down your heart-rate, high-five the crew ... it takes a few minutes.

Again, OSP does seem to have an attitude - last year I was next to the sheriff checking some guys that just landed a fish - first thing he said was "I know you haven't had time to mark your tag, I just need to make sure you have one." Sheriff's deputies - [img]graemlins/applause.gif[/img] Coast Guard - [img]graemlins/applause.gif[/img] OSP -

PBR Streetgang · 08-21-2003, 03:37 PM

So what kind of authority would OSP have in being NMFS deputized? That would be a fun one. Would the NMFS not be some administrative agency? What are their powers and under what authority are they given?

Tim

PBR Streetgang · 08-21-2003, 04:56 PM

I would like to know what the ORS is of the chapter that says you can be searched if you are hunting or fishing. The Oregon Constitution is far more restrictive than the 4th ammendment. Just because you are engaging in a particular activity doesn't mean you automatically forfeit your rights.

WildHawg · 08-21-2003, 05:39 PM

I had an interesting experience on my home river last year.
A Stater came down a private drive and snuck through the bushes to watch me fish about 300 yards below the deadline. I was anchored in a popular spot and catching fish. We land a big nate, released it gently, then proceeded to catch a dandy hatch. We net, bonk, bleed, hoot and tag.
We finish the exercize, cast, and are fishing again when out pops Mr. Stater, who tells me to row to the bank and show him our tags and license.
I've always heard that they don't have the right to interfere with the taking of game unless they have probable cause (he said he watched us catch it, so he must have seen my friend tag it), so I told him he'd have to wait, as there were others above us waiting to cheebob our prime spot we'd rowed downriver in the dark to secure. He had no probable cause.
He sid he didn't care, and that we had to row over anyway. I told him to use the binoculars on his neck to look at our tags and licenses (he was no more than 35 yards away), but he declined, and told me to pull anchor and row over.
Well...for those of you that know me, I have a hard time knowing when to shut up sometimes...so I told him to put on his state issued water wings and swim out, cause I hadn't broken any law, and I wasn't gonna pull anchor and row over.
He tried his bluff one more time, and I told him where to put it, and where he could check me, and at what time [img]graemlins/berry.gif[/img]
Must admit I was nervous to see what awaited me at the boat ramp, but ya know what? He wasn't even there.
Fished 10 more times for springers that year, and 15 this year--and he's never even checked me :grin:
Sometimes it takes a little lesson in courtesy and approach techniques for law enforcement as well as us in the public. Know your rights, and don't be afraid to stand up for them if your right. Heck with ya if your runnin' illegal.

Sea Jypzee · 08-21-2003, 05:50 PM

Quote:

830.035 Peace officers to enforce chapter; fleeing; attempts to elude. (1) The sheriff of each county and all other peace officers shall be responsible for the enforcement of this chapter and any regulations made by the State Marine Board pursuant thereto. In the exercise of this responsibility, a peace officer may stop any boat and direct it to a suitable pier or anchorage for boarding.

(2) No person, while operating a boat on any waters of this state, shall knowingly flee or attempt to elude any law enforcement officer after having received a signal from a law enforcement officer to bring the boat to a stop. [Formerly 488.027]

<font size="2" face="verdana,arial,helv">hmmmmmm. I couldn't find anything in the ORS that gives them blanket search/seizure without probable cause. I would think they could board, but I'd personally think that the plain sight rule would apply without consent to search.

[ 08-21-2003, 06:56 PM: Message edited by: Sea Jypzee ]

Uglygreen · 08-21-2003, 06:18 PM

Quote:

OSP is NMFS deputized and has authority/jurisdiction out to 200nm. Basically within the entire EEZ.

<font size="2" face="verdana,arial,helv">Close, but not quite. SOME OSP officers are deputized as NMFS agents. Which means that when acting as NMFS agents they can enforce FEDERAL rules and regulations from 3 miles to 200 miles. Even when acting as federal agents they still cannot enforce STATE rules and regulations beyond 3 miles.

Not all OSP are deputized as described. Those who are deputized are REQUIRED to carry and present to you identification stating such when requested. Also NMFS agents do not have the ability of search / seziure without probable cause like the USCG does.

UG

PBR Streetgang · 08-21-2003, 06:45 PM

First off, you cannot simply cut and paste from a chapter. Each paragraph and chapter are written in support of another:

830.035 Peace officers to enforce chapter; fleeing; attempts to elude. (1) The sheriff of each county and all other peace officers shall be responsible for the enforcement of this chapter and any regulations made by the State Marine Board pursuant thereto. In the exercise of this responsibility, a peace officer may stop any boat and direct it to a suitable pier or anchorage for boarding.

(2) No person, while operating a boat on any waters of this state, shall knowingly flee or attempt to elude any law enforcement officer after having received a signal from a law enforcement officer to bring the boat to a stop. [Formerly 488.027]

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Chapter 830 is dealing with watercraft, we'll go from there. Subsection 830.035 has to do with feleeing and eluding and a peace officers duty to enforce the laws of the chapter. That's it. It's just like a traffic stop, you cannot run from the coppers. When they tell you to you have to pull over and just like in a traffic stop they can't search your vehicle without your consent or probable cause and probable cause could be developed if you left your stash out in the open.

Wildhawg has it right, he knows his rights.

I'm sort of playing devils advocate here because stuff comes up like the "cops can search your boat with reasonable suspicion".

Probable cause is a pretty hefty hurdle to get over. It's there to protect you and I and everyone out there. I'm not advocating giving the cops a hard time just for fun BUT when you get the occasional Wyatt Earp or fascist **** like the bearded Lincoln County Marine deputy, then that's when it's fun to know your rights and to reinforce them. It should make them think about their approach.

I got into it with (name removed due to complaint) marine deputy a few years ago at South Beach. I had left my temp permit at home and he was being a jerk about it. A week before he demanded that I pull up to him while I was trying to clear my prop of a crab pot line. That's the kind of stuff he's good for. So, the week later when he was hassling me about the temp, I gave it back to him and made myself a diffucult customer. Finally, his reserve deputy or partner or whatever he was pipes up and diffuses the situation.

The police are out the to protect and serve. They have all but forgotten the serve part. The police are hiring the wrong people and in the case of Benton County, where I live, are training them to be **** stormtroopers. They forgot the lessons of being polite and couteous.

Tim

[ 08-25-2003, 07:25 PM: Message edited by: PBR Streetgang ]

TideRipper · 08-21-2003, 07:35 PM

Probable cause or not, I welcome the OSP to check out my boat any time they want. I have nothing to hide and am proud of it. It's their job to check us out and if that's a hassle then so be it. I just don't see any reason to make it any more unpleasant.

MasterMariner · 08-22-2003, 07:34 AM

Sounds like alot of you are trying to find ways to get around the law... how about keeping it legit and there won't be a problem. I can guarantee you that the OSP Troopers in the Astoria area know their authority/jurisdiction. Its up to each of you if you want to challenge your assumptions on the law...
As for me, I'm all for doing my R&R angling legally

WildHawg · 08-22-2003, 08:06 AM

I have nothing to hide--I dont run illegal, and I won't be harrassed by some overzealous newbie testing his powers.
He backed down because he realized he had no real recourse other than to get a boat or meet me at the ramp. I have no problem providing my tag and license to a stater. I won't however, lose my spot in a small river, so I can satisfy the lust for power of some nimrod cop.
I also disdain weasels who spy on me while I fish--cop or not.
I think they call it privacy...it's one of the reason I fish often from a driftboat on more remote streams.
One of the scariest problems our country faces is the willingness of some people to forgoe their constitutional rights in the name of "security" or convenience ("I just don't want the hassle!"), or just plain ignorance of what their rights really are.
Apathy is as dangerous as a bullet people.
Know your rights and stand up for them no matter what those in authority try and tell ya to buffalo the populace.

Old Coot · 08-22-2003, 08:08 AM

"...Wyatt Earp..."
"...Facist ****..."
"...tell a cop where to go..."
"...smack that little punk..."
"...bearded facist ****..."
"...stormtroopers..."

Hey! The sixties are back!

And you whine because you think the COPS have a bad attitude? You can't think of why they act that way? What would YOUR attitude be if you had to take that crap all day? Think you could do it day in and day out without backhanding the loudmouths?

While I'm on the topic:
General Rules, Oregon Sportfishing Regulations, 2003: "General Restrictions, The following are unlawful...12. Denying ODFW employees, peace officer or landowner opportunity to inspect license and catch."

Jr. high school lesson: You want to play the game, play by the rules. If you don't want to play by the rules, don't whine when the ref calls a foul.

PBR Streetgang · 08-22-2003, 10:25 AM

Old Coot: You have not read much of the discussion on this topic apparently. We have been talking about OUR rights in general as to searches and what is required of you when you get back to the dock. The reason I used names like "fascist ****" is because those police officers are going out of the way to treat the citizens like scum under their feet. This is only a few, maybe 5-10% of the police that behave this way. As for taking that kind of crap all day, I did it for 2 years. Most people that I dealt with were polite and respectful. I treated everyone I dealt with with respect and called them sir and maam. I never got smart with anyone and very seldom did I have to get physical with anyone, those that I did were beligerent drunks.

I always play by the rules. I read the regs and I follow them. What I don't need is some snot nose cop getting in my face because he has self esteem problems and is having a bad day. Treat me with respect and I treat you with respect. I agree with Wild Hawg who said that he would let them search his boat if he could come over and search the cops house. Most of the time they are just on a fishing expedition of their own trying to come up with something.

I never played any sports in junior high so I wouldn't know about refs or fouls or anything like that. I was too busy hunting and fishing.

Every citizen out there should know their rights and understand them. I never plan to be arrested for anything and I never plan to do anything to be arrested. If I saw a cop getting whammed on by a dirtbag I would be the first one to step in and help the cop out, even if it was the (name removed due to complaint) from Lincoln County, that's the way I am.

You live in Marion County which has a failry reputable department. Benton County has been downright corrupt at times. Sex scandals regularly come through here and among other departments Benton County is a laughing stock. I went to the Marion County Reserve Academy and know a few from up there. Benton County was literally laughed at.

This is not about how to circumvent the law or break the law and get away with it. This is about knowing your rights and not getting pushed around at the dock.

Tim

[ 08-25-2003, 07:26 PM: Message edited by: PBR Streetgang ]

MasterMariner · 08-22-2003, 12:02 PM

I'm sensing alot of hostility in this thread... and it seems as if alot of people are talking tough.
Go ahead and roll the dice... just be sure to share it with the rest of us when you come up short.

WildHawg · 08-22-2003, 12:16 PM

Well Master Mariner and Tide Ripper...you just don't get it do you?
It's about your right to live free and enjoy the outdoors without being harrassed unduly. Did you get the idea that I was some kind of outlaw looking to avoid getting caught or somethin'?
I'll show my license anytime a cop approaches me and asks for it. That does not include those times I am making way trolling, or anchored and plunking unless they can come to me.
I don't have to interupt my day to satisfy their curiosity when I am completely legal.
I'll take my chances while preserving our rapidly diminishing rights to live our lives as we please within the law.

MasterMariner · 08-22-2003, 12:32 PM

WildHawg... hey man... how ever you want to play the game is up to you... Best of luck!

Old Coot · 08-25-2003, 02:23 PM

Sorry my response is delayed. Our computer bit it over the weekend.

Yeah, I read the thread. All of it. I don't see where it began as a rights discussion. I think it posed a specific legal question about fish processing. I still think that's what it says.

My analogy about "the game" had nothing to do with sports. Sorry to be confusing.

I do find some logical and knowledgeable discussion of legal rights in the thread, but the inflammatory posts certainly diverted my attention. Most of the vitriol seems to be venting over past wrongs, real or imagined. I've heard it all before, when volunteering at OSCI.

In my post I sort of defended the attitudes of the police. I am not a passive and meek man who is responding because I view the police as my great and infallible protector. I know better. I have been hooked up and tossed into the cage at 5 a.m., a case of mistaken identity. Unpleasant? You bet. Angry? Words cannot describe. Violation of rights? Probably.

But, so what? Literally. So what? Am I less of a man because I was tossed into a holding cell? No. Did the handcuffs emasculate me? Nope, two great kids since. Did repeated questioning turn me into a spineless quivering yes-man? I don't think so, because here I am promulgating my beliefs in direct opposition to what is apparently the popular stance. I simply recognize that cops are human too. They honestly thought they had removed Claude Dallas from the streets.
Only when I stop making everyday mistakes, will I expect the same perfection from others.

I do not advocate wholesale surrender of rights, but I do suggest placing them in context and ranking. Some adults are even able to evaluate their own rights versus the greater good and momentarily and voluntarily subordinate their rights as a favor to the public at large. I don't think they are damaged by that action.

I regret that some disagree with my opinion, but I am responding because I know kids lurk on ifish. They need to know that points of view vary. My point of view is mostly diametrically opposed to that of the name-callers. As I read this thread it appeared, to me, to degenerate more into resentful venting and sour-grapes bluster than constructive discourse on individual rights.

I have lost the logic of the arguement. To me, a sex scandal in Benton County has nothing to do with a tall bearded deputy on a dock in Newport. MCSO's reputation has nothing to do with anybody's rights. Acne has nothing to do with anything. I'm not smart enough to connect these disparate dots, so I will retire from this thread.

skein · 08-25-2003, 05:18 PM

Hey, guys, time to cool it down.

We're starting to get to the labeling, name-calling, flame-throwing stage and that's not what the Salty Dogs forum is for.

Step back, cool off, and bring the focus back to fishing - and sharing.

Thanks.

Skein

Joe Schwab · 08-27-2003, 07:55 AM

KT, the statute you were referring to was overturned years ago, State vs. Filbin. It basically gave police the power to search anywhere except residences for evidence of a game violation based on slightly less than probable cause. Every police officer who worked game enforcemnt knew it would probably be overturned even though it had been on the books for years. It was used very carefully.

What most don't realize though is if you have fish or wildlife and the officer knows it or has probable cause to know it and you refuse a search, you are going to get searched or cited for refusing to allow inspection of your catch. That is in the book and has been upheld numerous times.

TideRipper · 08-27-2003, 10:54 PM

Hey, I thought this thread died a long time ago.

WildHawg, you probably wont even see this but you were not even on my mind when I posted that. I simply made a blanket statement on how I feel about the subject in general. So, no hard feelings - OK?

By the way, I do get it. I mean... thats why I posted.