Swapping Yamaha 250 for Honda 130?

Killertraylor · 08-18-2003, 10:23 AM

I'm thinking of trading in my 01' Yamaha 250 Saltwater Series for a new Honda 130 or maybe the new Yamaha 150 4 stroke. I've got a 23' Northriver Seahawk (run the outboard with a prop) and would like to get more offshore range out of it. I cruise now at about 3600 RPM at 28-32 mph. For those of you with similar sized boats, what is your cruising speed and RPM's with the smaller 4 strokes? I'm not concerned with top end speed, just better fuel efficiency. Am I making a mistake? Will this be too big of a loss in horsepower? I've got about 125 hours on the 250 and I love it, except for the fuel economy. I currently burn about 15 gallons an hour at 3600 rpm. Thanks.

Joe

edsr · 08-18-2003, 10:34 AM

KT - What does the Mfg. project with the smaller engine? Do they have any specs.?

A smaller motor equals less gas burned but will you be able to live with the reduced performance?

edsr

skein · 08-18-2003, 10:35 AM

KT,

If you're thinking of a 130 or 150, give that Suzuki 140 a look-see. It pushes my new boat at 32 with 4 people and close to 100 gals of gas. That's at 5200 rpm. I expect to get 5600 out of it when it's fully broken in. It also weighs almost 100 lbs less than the Honda. So far I am very pleased.

It seems to sip fuel, but I don't have enough running time to say what the gph figures out to be. The dealer I got mine from has been nothing short of wonderful to work with, and that's always a factor in buying a motor.

Skein

PBR Streetgang · 08-18-2003, 10:54 AM

I can't believe you burn 15 gallons and hour. Have you had it checked? What does the factory say for fuel consumption. My 88 Suzuki 200 on a 20' uses 4-6 gllaons an hour.

Tim

Killertraylor · 08-18-2003, 10:58 AM

Wow - 5200 RPM! Do you plan on cruising with it that high? Will it plane and cruise o.k. at 4000 rpm? Is 5200-5600 working the engine too hard? I occasionally take mine up to 5500 on glass-like conditions and it scoots along at about 52 mph - too fast! That's exactly what I needed to know though, Skein. I know Puffin has a 130 Honda on it - I should check with John to see what his RPM's and cruising speed are. Thanks for the reply.

PBR - the manual says 20 gallons an hour at full throttle (5500 RPM). I've never had it checked (not sure how you would do that). I have a 103 gallon fuel tank and I'm never sure whether it's full as I don't trust the fuel guage, but I don't think I'm too far off at 15 gallons an hour.
Joe

[ 08-18-2003, 12:10 PM: Message edited by: Killertraylor ]

fop · 08-18-2003, 12:14 PM

107 gallons!!!!wow

Thats when I would take one of those guys that say "lets go fishing and I'll fill the tank." Then invite them when its about empty.

fop

Killertraylor · 08-18-2003, 12:43 PM

Yeah, Nate, I really like it the way it is, but I think 4 stroke is the way to go now with outboards and I've been considering a swap for a long time. I never considered going as small as 130 until I got the urge to chase tuna. However, gimmeumpqua has got me thinking that the 225 is probably the way to go if I swap, and I'm not sure that big cowling will fit in my little splashwell...

I won't chase tuna now with the 250 not knowing if my tank is full. Maybe I should work on a more accurate way to judge whether my tank is full instead! You'd think that when you spend over 40K on a boat, they should have a fuel guage that works!
Maybe I just need 3 of these 300's like this guy.

[ 08-18-2003, 01:52 PM: Message edited by: Killertraylor ]

corrirod · 08-18-2003, 12:56 PM

KT,

Get a $150 flowmeter put in and you'll know exactly how much gas your burning in real-time. It will total your trip, tell you how many gallons are left in the tank, and exactly what your consumption rate is at that moment, all with a 5% accuracy.

There is no better piece of mind when your way offshore!

Killertraylor · 08-18-2003, 01:02 PM

That's exactly what I need, Corrirod. Is there a good one out there that you recommend, or are they all the same? I have to head over to West Marine this afternoon anyway so I'll check them out. I hate not knowing how much fuel is in the tank, and this way I'll be able to see how much gas that 250 really guzzles to pencil out whether a change is worth it.

Backlash2 · 08-18-2003, 06:39 PM

Killer-

We just repowered my Dad's 23' Trophy with a Honda 225hp 4-stroke. All that I can say is WOW!!!

Too early to be real accurate, but from initial checks it appears somewhere in the 5.8 to 6.0 GPH range at 4200 RPM. A huge difference compared to the 200hp Suzuki that sat back there.

The other gargantuan difference is the noise, or the lack there of. Two guys standing at the helm can have a conversation in absolutely normal voices with the engine wide open at 5600 RPM. They are not quite as torqeee as a 2-stroke, but obviously power is not lacking. The thing is as quiet at idle as my Honda 9.9, no kidding.

I can't say a bad thing about Yamaha, as both of these manufacturer's have 4-strokes figured out. I will say that if you are interested in going 225hp I know of a screaming deal on the last brand new '02 225 hp Honda on the West coast. Just let me know....

skein · 08-18-2003, 11:01 PM

KT,

The manual calls for operating between 5600-6200 rpm. She's up on plane at 4000, running about 20 mph.

Give me more time! :grin:

Skein

gimmeumpqua · 08-18-2003, 11:15 PM

I think you'll be unhappy with less power....I have a 22 ft NR seahawk, and at 3000 rpm (21mph)I am burning 6 gallons/hour with a 225 Yamaha 4 stroke.
The torque is quite confidence building in the bar and swells....

BTW, NR told me that Yamaha is coming out with a 150 4 stroke any day now.

Kurt

[ 08-18-2003, 12:22 PM: Message edited by: gimmeumpqua ]

Critr Gitr · 08-18-2003, 11:16 PM

I have a yamaha F100 4 stoke and love it. In talking with some mechanics they say that the 6/7 yr old Hondas that are now coming in for work and they are noticing a fair amount of corrosion of the internals. I was told that Yamaha revamped the copper content (lowered it) in their alloys a number of years back and have had outstanding corrosion resistance. I am anxious to see the new 150 - Yamaha resell is very good also. Suzuki years ago were the worst for corrosion problems but their new engines have won pretty high praises - a friend of mine got a new one and it seems to be put together pretty well - the 6 year warranty (buy before end of Sept) is hard to beat also.

Remember - when the big wave comes - I've never heard anyone say - I wish I had less horsepower.

gimmeumpqua · 08-18-2003, 11:16 PM

Woops! I see you already know about the yamaha 150!

Kurt

Killertraylor · 08-18-2003, 11:22 PM

Thanks, Kurt. That 225 is a sweet motor - wish I would have bought my boat a year later and that's what I would have got. The fuel economy is much better than I expected too! I think the problem will be the size and price. I had a custom splashwell built around that 250 Saltwater series and the cowlings on the big 4 strokes are huge. Not sure it will fit in the splashwell when it's tilted up. Also, my motor is only worth about $9500 which means shelling out some serious cash if I go to a big 4 stroke. Decisions, decisions! Thanks for the info.

Joe

rockn'reel · 08-18-2003, 11:30 PM

Personally, I would get as much Hp on the back of that boat as possible! when you deal with 4 strokes you have the added weight and the powerband doesn't hit like a 2-stroke so it takes a little longer to get to plane. I have a friend that put a 60 hp 4 stroke on his NR 18 ft. and I told him to limit out on the hp but he didn't, now he is regretting it! There is one thing to consider about getting as much Hp as possible and that is weight! There is no differenc in weight between the 200 and 225 hp 4 stroke yamaha so go with the bigger one. If there wasa weight difference I would go smaller.
I have a 23'6" jetcraft with a 16 deg hull it has a 150 oceanrunner Johnson on the back. I just had it rebuilt (new motors out of the budget) but if I was to put one on it would be the yamaha 225 4 stroke. I researched them quite a bit before I rebuilt my current one. The differencebetween the yamaha is yamaha started from the ground up to build a new outboard and honda made some changes to their car motors. I thik yamaha will last longer. Honda is def. a good motor and their epa standards are higher than those of yamaha, but that doesn't matter once you buy one. The honda motors do run a little cheaper but not much. If you want a side by side comparison talk to Troy at Pacific Boatland he should be able to help you make an informed decision.

gimmeumpqua · 08-18-2003, 11:32 PM

You know, I've been thinking about this...Your fuel consumption, no matter which motor is going to skyrocket the moment you hit 4000 rpms, which I'm sure you are doing at those speeds. If yopu look at MPH instead of gallons per hour, you'll probably have about the same range if you slow down a little bit(you'll be forced to anyway with a smaller motor, or burn more fuel at higher speeds)...say 3500 RPM and would not likely benefit you to trade all that power for a minimum of range enhancement.

Your Yamaha is a great engine, I only went with a 4 stroke because I have seasickness issues at times and can't handle the exhaust.

Kurt

rockn'reel · 08-18-2003, 11:38 PM

Personally, I would get as much Hp on the back of that boat as possible! when you deal with 4 strokes you have the added weight and the powerband doesn't hit like a 2-stroke so it takes a little longer to get to plane. I have a friend that put a 60 hp 4 stroke on his NR 18 ft. and I told him to limit out on the hp but he didn't, now he is regretting it! There is one thing to consider about getting as much Hp as possible and that is weight! There is no differenc in weight between the 200 and 225 hp 4 stroke yamaha so go with the bigger one. If there wasa weight difference I would go smaller.
I have a 23'6" jetcraft with a 16 deg hull it has a 150 oceanrunner Johnson on the back. I just had it rebuilt (new motors out of the budget) but if I was to put one on it would be the yamaha 225 4 stroke. I researched them quite a bit before I rebuilt my current one. The differencebetween the yamaha is yamaha started from the ground up to build a new outboard and honda made some changes to their car motors. I thik yamaha will last longer. Honda is def. a good motor and their epa standards are higher than those of yamaha, but that doesn't matter once you buy one. The honda motors do run a little cheaper but not much. If you want a side by side comparison talk to Troy at Pacific Boatland he should be able to help you make an informed decision.
Now for suzuki, ther is not much I can say about them, except for...everyone I know (eight boats) who has owned one has had nothing but problems even when it was covered under that monsterous warranty. They never had a chance to take their boat out because it was in the shope beign worked on most of the time. Most of these people have changed out those motors and went with yamaha instead. Now, I am not against giving a product a second chance and hopefully they have worked all the problems out, in fact it sounds like Skein has a motor that is really working out for him. I must also add, all the problems I saw were on 2-strokes and not the new 4-strokes! I never researched the suzuki 4-strokes because of the aboved mentioned problems with the 2-strokes. I do not know where to go to get info on those but I bet Skein could tell you who to talk to. I hope some of this helps you make a decision you will be happy with. These are big investments and I know I hate to go in uniformed!
Skein I hope I didn't offend you about Suzuki, you seem to be really happy with yours and I hope it works well for you.

'ZZZZzzzzzz' · 08-18-2003, 11:59 PM

Whoa there Joe:

That's a sweet ride the way it is and with 103 gallons you've got some good range. How far do you want to go?

The guys at the gas station always comment ("Man, you must hate to fill this thirsy gal")when I put 60 gallons of fuel in my boat. My reply is usually something close to (Nope, I hope I'm back here filling her up a whole bunch of times this year").

Besides a good crew will your tank :grin: for you and you're good for a long haul with 103 on board. Love her the way she is.

Z's-

[ 08-18-2003, 01:22 PM: Message edited by: 'ZZZZzzzzzz' ]

Denali · 08-19-2003, 03:51 PM

KT,

You have not mentioned the HPDI option?? Your fuel consumption will be just as good as the 4-stroke without the added weight. Yam has a 250HPDI,200HPDI, and soon to be introduced 300. I have the 200 on a 21ft Duck and the engine just hums. Just something else to think about.

Stratocaster · 08-19-2003, 04:46 PM

Quote:

Personally, I would get as much Hp on the back of that boat as possible! when you deal with 4 strokes you have the added weight and the powerband doesn't hit like a 2-stroke so it takes a little longer to get to plane.

<font size="2" face="verdana,arial,helv">Actually most 4 strokes have in tests, plane as fast or faster than comparable 2 strokes(think torque) A lingering 4 stroke myth, my 4 stroke planes out faster than my 2 ever did.

Denali · 08-20-2003, 03:55 PM

You'd be crazy to take that yammy off there. You have plenty of range with what you have. I think when you hook up the Floscan or Navman you will confirm this. That's a nice size gas tank for a boat that size.

TheRogue · 08-20-2003, 05:14 PM

1/2 the horsepower, and more weight??

Won't save that much in fuel, if you have to have it WOT all the time.

TR

Lepper · 08-20-2003, 05:36 PM

I have a 19ft alumaweld with a 90hp suzuki on it.. LOVE IT.. took it out for a tuna run..

went 75 miles. (via GPS) Took me 13.5 gallson on those 75 miles.. that was 6 hours of running.. Running out and back I pretty much had her around 4500-5200 rpms'.. (it was a flat ocean :smile: ) inbetween was the 7-9mph for tuna trollin..
dave

Killertraylor · 08-20-2003, 06:38 PM

I'm having the floscan installed as soon as I'm done B10 fishing. Think I'll keep the big engine once I can find out my GPH and MPG. Wish I would have thought about that before. I love that Yamaha - it's been awfully good to me and seems to power the boat just perfectly. Thanks for all the input - it really helped.

Joe