Which sinking line to go with?

[nookslayer]

On past rods that have now found new homes to make way for the new sticks I have always used an Airflow multi-tip line (not the biggest fan). I have now gone to the SA Sharkskin Steelhead on the Sage VPS896 (9'6" 8wt)and I am looking for a sinking line for the new Albright I picked up on that stellar sale they had. Any suggestions on what to go with? It's 10' 8wt (and the reels/lines may be switched back and forth between the Sage and this one depending on condtions). Is a 300 grain enough or would you go more/less? The idea is to have both of these ready to go on the river.

Thanks in advance...

[sothereiwas]

I have been using the Cortland QD 325 on my 8wt. I use it mostly for bulls and shad. Its a lot like a Teeny line but has a much better running line. I think the Welches is clearing them out in the bargain area.

Brad

[MikeT]

Why not go with a shooting head system? That way you can carry several heads of different sink rates and change them as conditions dictate.

Mike

[santiamflyguy]

I'll second the recommendation of the Cortland QD series. I've got a 200, 250, and 300 and fish them with 6,7,8 weights, respectively. The clear intermediate running line keeps you in touch with the subtleties of your fly's movement (and hopefully, the savage grabs, too!).

Not sure if they still are, but both Sportsman's and Joe's have had them on clearance lately.

[Slow and Low]

I know nothing about one handers anymore. Why not go with a singlehand skagit set up?

I've been monkeying around with one on my 890 rpl+. Much easier than casting overhead.

I know that doesn't answer your question. Just a thought, set up the VPS for nymphing and the 10'er for swinging. Then you can pick whatever tip you want...within reason.

[nookslayer]

Slow and low you read my mind. That was the sole reason I picked up the 10er. I do a lot of single hand spey casting on river both you and I frequent so the skagit set up is intriguing. Being that I am somewhat retarted when it coem to the ways of two hander set ups, can you reccomend (or explain) the skagit?

If you had to choose only one line for the 10" 8wt would it be a 300 grain or the shooting head wiht multiple tips? Having used the Airflow in the past with multiple tips (and not a fan) how is the shooting head different? Ideally I would like to go with a single line and add spools if I need others.

Thank you for all your input guys. It does help to have a a congress of experts to confer with when making these decisions.

[Slow and Low]

Originally Posted by nookslayer

Slow and low you read my mind. That was the sole reason I picked up the 10er. I do a lot of single hand spey casting on river both you and I frequent so the skagit set up is intriguing. Being that I am somewhat retarted when it coem to the ways of two hander set ups, can you reccomend (or explain) the skagit?

If you had to choose only one line for the 10" 8wt would it be a 300 grain or the shooting head wiht multiple tips? Having used the Airflow in the past with multiple tips (and not a fan) how is the shooting head different? Ideally I would like to go with a single line and add spools if I need others.

Thank you for all your input guys. It does help to have a a congress of experts to confer with when making these decisions.

Versa tip set ups have kind of outlived thier purpose with the exception of 14' pluss rods. I have a compact 450 that I think will do ok on my 890 rpl+ but honestly I haven't tried. I guess the compacts are shooting heads per se but not in the sense of overhead casting. They are short and heavy as well as able to turn over copeus amounts of t14. I'll run down in the morning and see how it does and shoot you a note. 300 grns sounds light if you want to turn anything of decent size over but maybe not. Also you want something close to 3 times your rod length, give or take. I'll shoot you a note tomorrow.

[Slow and Low]

Nookslayer,

I took my single hand 10' 8wt out and it handled a compact 450 plus a 10' fast sink polyleader and 4" bunny leach easily. 50-60 casts with no problem. You might be able to go down a few grains but 300 would be way too light. Anyhow, it was dredging lisely.

No fish though:-(

[nookslayer]

Thanks man! that really helps. I think I might go with exactly what you rigged.

[steel_beaver]

Originally Posted by Slow and Low

Nookslayer,

I took my single hand 10' 8wt out and it handled a compact 450 plus a 10' fast sink polyleader and 4" bunny leach easily. 50-60 casts with no problem. You might be able to go down a few grains but 300 would be way too light. Anyhow, it was dredging lisely.

No fish though:-(

I have a 10'6" 8wt single hander that I knida turned into a switch (removable fighting but so I extended it). I've been monkeying around with some lines I have on hand and found that it casts best (overhead) with a windcutter 9/10/11 with both tips removed. That puts the head at around 365 gr and 23 ft. For spey casting I need at least another 50-60 grain to load it the way I like it(I get really nice loops but can't shoot more than 25 ft). So for the Albright , I would recommend at least 400 gr, maybe closer to the 450 becasue the albrights are pretty fast. Good luck

S_B

[santiamflyguy]

Originally Posted by steel_beaver

For spey casting I need at least another 50-60 grain to load it the way I like it(I get really nice loops but can't shoot more than 25 ft).
S_B

Indeed therein lies the issue with Skagit-type setups on shorter rods, especially single-handers. Your heads are going to have to be extremely short to keep the overall weight down, like in the 15-25' range, if you want to have a dense enough head to turn over a T-14 tip.

Even with a good single-hand spey cast and decent shoot of line, you're limited in your range... and if you try to overhead that much weight, especially with a heavy tip and the head/running hinge, that's a pretty huge and awkward load on an 8wt.

Try out one of the integrated head lines like the Cortland QD or Airflo 40+. You can roll/single hand spey them well enough, and if you want/need to air it out, well, yeah

[Slow and Low]

Originally Posted by Slow and Low

Nookslayer,

I took my single hand 10' 8wt out and it handled a compact 450 plus a 10' fast sink polyleader and 4" bunny leach easily. 50-60 casts with no problem. You might be able to go down a few grains but 300 would be way too light. Anyhow, it was dredging lisely.

No fish though:-(

I fished this today for about 4 hours and I am selling all my 2 handers...just kidding. But seriously, this is an awesome set up. You can use both hands if you really want to smoke it out there.

[Slow and Low]

Originally Posted by santiamflyguy

Indeed therein lies the issue with Skagit-type setups on shorter rods, especially single-handers. Your heads are going to have to be extremely short to keep the overall weight down, like in the 15-25' range, if you want to have a dense enough head to turn over a T-14 tip.

Even with a good single-hand spey cast and decent shoot of line, you're limited in your range... and if you try to overhead that much weight, especially with a heavy tip and the head/running hinge, that's a pretty huge and awkward load on an 8wt.

Try out one of the integrated head lines like the Cortland QD or Airflo 40+. You can roll/single hand spey them well enough, and if you want/need to air it out, well, yeah

Too bad they don't make a 9 or 10 weight 40 plus so you can spey cast it with an 8 wt.

On that note, the scientific angler steelhead taper is awesome one or two weight up to spey cast...but that's dry line stuff and no good for a few months at least.

[santiamflyguy]

Originally Posted by Slow and Low

Too bad they don't make a 9 or 10 weight 40 plus so you can spey cast it with an 8 wt.

On that note, the scientific angler steelhead taper is awesome one or two weight up to spey cast...but that's dry line stuff and no good for a few months at least.

Don't they make one? I swear I used to have a 9 or 10wt DI7 full sinker, at least I'm sure that I fished it on the 9wt...

The RIO Outbound is much the same design, not sure what all offerings there are on that.

[santiamflyguy]

Originally Posted by santiamflyguy

Don't they make one? I swear I used to have a 9 or 10wt DI7 full sinker, at least I'm sure that I fished it on the 9wt...

The RIO Outbound is much the same design, not sure what all offerings there are on that.

Yep, just checked, Airflo does make the 40+ in a 9wt DI-7. That's as far as they go, though.

The RIO Outbound (which I haven't personally fished) goes up to WF10, Type VIII with 425 grains in the head, a tad much for overhead casting with an 8wt but would probably rock the single-hand spey.

Agree that the Steelhead taper speys like crazy. Looking forward to giving mine a workout in the next couple of months, who says you can't catch winters with a floater?

Side note there, I did cut tips into a Steelhead taper and that was pretty much the best system I've seen for steelhead in the winter if you only want to carry one rod. I have no idea why they don't make a Steelhead tips line straight from the factory.

[JGS]

Try the SA Single Hand Skagit lines on the those rods - short, compact taper (even shorter than the Airflo Compact) and built in 320, 360 and 400 grain weights.

Slow and Low, give the 400 a try on that rod of yours and report back - I know you will be pleased.

I use as follows (all with great success)

RPL 5100 - 320 grain
RPL 7100 - 360 grain
SLT 8100 - 400 grain

Nothing better for the smaller coastal streams and a couple of rivers out the Gorge way. I too will use the Steelhead taper for a floating skagit line on the single handers in 2 plus the rod weight. Great for nymphing...but that's another story!

[nookslayer]

Going to go with the Aiflow compact skagit in a 400 grain and add the 10' fast sink poly leaders as well. Curious about the SA lines you peak of though JGS...

[JGS]

Airflo Compacts start at 420 grains - great lines.

The SA lines are compact as well - supposedly designed for single hand rods (also great on switch rods and very short spey rods). They start at 280 grains and go 320, 360 and 400.

[sothereiwas]

Airflo is releasing a 360, and 390 grain compact that match the Decho 4 and 5wt. They might be out now.

[nookslayer]

I don't want to go to heavy so maybe I'll look at both the SA and the Airflow. Do you guys think a 400 is too much for a 10' 7/8 wt? It's a mod fast action.

[Ty]

This is a no brainer... SA or Teeny Nymph line all the way. Third distant choice is Rio.

[nookslayer]

Picked up the Airflow compact skagit in the Pink (510 grain) and it felt pretty good while casting in the park. looking forward to getting it wet.

[Slow and Low]

wow, the 510. Bold.

[steel_beaver]

Originally Posted by Slow and Low

wow, the 510. Bold.

HAHA Yeah , I tried casting a 540 compact (floater too) and it felt like I was plunking for springers on the Columbia. It got it out there though. Hopefully it works out for you nook...

S_B

[nookslayer]

Not sure I really like this thing too much. I can get it back and shoot it with authority but roll casting and/or single hand spey is just not going to happen. Maybe I shouldn't have listened to my guy at the shop I usually go to. I may just go back and trade it on on the Teeny T-200 and call it good. I mainly nymph for steel and have good success but want to have the other rod rigged and ready to go for swinging.

What do you guys think? Did I listen when I shouldn't have? Should I just get a different shooting head or should I go with the Teeny?

[Slow and Low]

Let me know next time your up here I will take you out to cast around a bit.

Take the 510 back and get something closer to 400 grn. 510 is great for a strong 7wt spey rod which will handle a lot more grains than a 10' 8 weight single hand.

The 10' rod I was using is an fli 8100. A pretty stout rod.

[sothereiwas]

Why not just fish an Airflo nymph line and when you want to swing put 10' of t-8 on. It has a welded loop, and because it doesn't have the mass of a skagit head the t-8 will pull the tip of the nymph line down giving you more depth. works great for me.

[nookslayer]

Slow and low, I shoul dbe out that way in the nexty couple of weeks. I think I am going to head back to Don and get something closer to 400 grain. I think that will work out well and I wasn't account for the fact I have about 2 to 4 feet less rod throwing the shooting head. Thanks for the help and we'll get out soon.

[steel_beaver]

Originally Posted by nookslayer

Slow and low, I shoul dbe out that way in the nexty couple of weeks. I think I am going to head back to Don and get something closer to 400 grain. I think that will work out well and I wasn't account for the fact I have about 2 to 4 feet less rod throwing the shooting head. Thanks for the help and we'll get out soon.

Yeah, that little Airflo chart that Don uses doesn't work very well on the single handers.... according to it, I need 540gr for my 8wt single/switch (like I said it wasn't even close). The 540 works great on my spey 8wt though...
So go back there and get the 400 or 420 compact and it should work great.... like Slow and Low said

[nookslayer]

What a mistake to ever question Slow and Low...especially after that PIG he posted recently. I'm headed there today since he's closed on Mondays. Gonna get the 400 grain.

SO S & L, this guy is itching to get out. Are you opposed to a midweek walk on the tracks?

[Slow and Low]

Originally Posted by nookslayer

What a mistake to ever question Slow and Low...especially after that PIG he posted recently. I'm headed there today since he's closed on Mondays. Gonna get the 400 grain.

SO S & L, this guy is itching to get out. Are you opposed to a midweek walk on the tracks?

No,

I am unemployed until the 5th of Jan.

I'm actually on way to check it out right now. Asume you are talking about the tracks to parkdale.

[Mike Marcus]

This has been a great thread to read through. I have been trying to figure out a single hand spey line to get for my 10' 8wt as well. I have normally run and integrated sink tip line, but after getting a spey rod this year, and using skagit heads, I really want to get a skagit head for my single hander. I just might have to pick up a 420 gr. compact skagit and give it a go.

Mike

[nookslayer]

That I am. Let me know what it looks like and if the turbidity has settled a bit with the colder weather. I was speaking with a fish and game biologist that is a friend of mine who thinks this should be a banner year! That was music to my ears! PM me if you have a chance S & L...

[nookslayer]

Got the 420 grain and it is the perfect line for the rod. Can wait to put a fish on it!

[Milt]

First off, this is a great thread. I've already learned a lot.

Just getting into steelhead fishing on a fly and I too bought an Albright 7/8wt 10' so I'm awfully interested in this discussion.

So, if you folks don't mind indulging a noob, I need a little clarification as I've always used DT or WF floating lines for my trout fishing.

Lines like the Airflo compact head are only ~24' long, correct? So when you load this sort of line onto a reel you go with traditional backing first, then a running line(?), then the head, then a tip of your choice, leader, tippet. Am I close?

For skagit style casting on a one hander the head should be 3 to 3.5 times the rod length? So would the 24' Airflo head be too short or does the 3x-3.5x include the tip length?

As for the tip, how important is selecting the right weight for casting vs. sink rate for getting the fly down? Am I going to need multiple tips for winter steelhead fishing or will one get me by?

Maybe stupid questions, but I'm having a heck of a time finding any skagit casting resources on the net.

cheers,
Milt

[Slow and Low]

Originally Posted by Milt

First off, this is a great thread. I've already learned a lot.

Just getting into steelhead fishing on a fly and I too bought an Albright 7/8wt 10' so I'm awfully interested in this discussion.

So, if you folks don't mind indulging a noob, I need a little clarification as I've always used DT or WF floating lines for my trout fishing.

Lines like the Airflo compact head are only ~24' long, correct? Correct. So when you load this sort of line onto a reel you go with traditional backing first, then a running line(?), then the head, then a tip of your choice, leader, tippet. Am I close?

Backing to a running line (i use miracle braid) to a compact or shooting head. Tips are personal and take a lot of trial and error. You only need about 24" of leader and that is also a personal thing. I go loop to loop straight 8 or 10# ultra green.

For skagit style casting on a one hander the head should be 3 to 3.5 times the rod length? So would the 24' Airflo head be too short or does the 3x-3.5x include the tip length? No, 24' plus 10' plus 24" puts you right there. Maybe you will fall in love with t14 and only fish 7'. You may like t8 or t10. In the end you will like what you can cast and catch fish on, that will vary by river and type of flies you fish.

As for the tip, how important is selecting the right weight for casting vs. sink rate for getting the fly down? Am I going to need multiple tips for winter steelhead fishing or will one get me by?

You will need multiple tips depending on what you want to do, again trial and error. Some people want to feel the botton, I do not. I like to be in the water column and not getting hung up.

Maybe stupid questions, but I'm having a heck of a time finding any skagit casting resources on the net.

There is a lot out there on skagit but zero out there for use with a one hander. Hopefully this starts to answer your questions.

cheers,
Milt

Good luck, and remember the most important part is the trial and error. I am constantly screwing with line combos. My advise is find someone who knows something. Most fly shops know jack, and will sell you plenty of stuff you don't need. Like I said trial and error. If you want a perfect set up it will cost you some time and a little money.

I really like travis duddles at the gorge fly shop. First guy I have met who actually knows what he is talking about.

[Milt]

Thanks, S&L. I did ask one of the local fly shop fellas about a set up like this and he was clueless. Sounds like I'll have to save my to be able to afford all the stuff I'll need on a student budget... I thought the rod and reel were the spendy parts of the rig.

Anyway, thanks again for the rundown.

[Slow and Low]

Originally Posted by Milt

Thanks, S&L. I did ask one of the local fly shop fellas about a set up like this and he was clueless. Sounds like I'll have to save my to be able to afford all the stuff I'll need on a student budget... I thought the rod and reel were the spendy parts of the rig.

Anyway, thanks again for the rundown.

It's not that bad, just do it right the first ime.

[Slow and Low]

Originally Posted by santiamflyguy

Don't they make one? I swear I used to have a 9 or 10wt DI7 full sinker, at least I'm sure that I fished it on the 9wt...

The RIO Outbound is much the same design, not sure what all offerings there are on that.

I gave the rio outbound a go and it's not even in the same league. It'll fish but not well enough for me. I fished the 420 outbound. It would gowever smoke it overhead cashing...massive line speed. Maybe I will cut it up and see if it works better.