RUT, where are we in the rut as of right now?

[spottedhawk36]

I went out yesterday and saw 4 bucks and no does, the big buck i saw had a huge neck on him. I was curious as to where you think we are in the blacktail rut right now? think its mellowing out or are we still in the peak?

[Artwo]

Peak......................

[Rank Amateur]

Yep, peak.

[3fletch]

In my opinion the Blacktails I have seen are "Prowling" or checking inventory, within the next few days they will be in the chasing phase and by the end of next week they should be hooked up on does.. This is based on the moon phase and by my and other hunters observations. That is not to say that there are not deer currently in all of these phases, but by seeing multiple bucks still coming into the horns of all sizes tells me that we have not hit the peak (locked up on does) yet...

[Wheels]

I was thinking about the blacktail rut the other day and this is what I decided based on past experience.(southern/central coast)

pre-rut = Oct. 20th to Oct. 31st

Rut (does in estrus) = Nov. 1st through Dec. 15th. I think the length of the rut in a particular area depends on the doe population.......some does start much earlier than others.............kinda like some bucks drop their horns in Dec. and others in March.

Peak Rut = Nov. 10th to Nov. 30th.

I have had good rattling success from Oct. 25th to Nov. 10th. (when the bucks are establishing dominance) (also good success where there are multiple bucks in an area). although, I have friends who have rattling success all through the rut......even in December.

Just my thoughts. Wheels.

[SandyRiverFisher]

Depends on where you are at.

[stlhdrgrn]

Originally Posted by spottedhawk36

I went out yesterday and saw 4 bucks and no does, the big buck i saw had a huge neck on him. I was curious as to where you think we are in the blacktail rut right now? think its mellowing out or are we still in the peak?

Pm me their location and I'll take the horns there and report back to you with my answer.LOL I Didn't find any willing responders Saturday but I'll be back after them soon.
Mike

[spottedhawk36]

i was in the santiam unit molalla corridor, bucks where out all day long, so i asume they are out cruising for the ladies.

[thefishslayer]

I shot a buck on the 15 that was Ruttin hard. But that night while we were coon huntin we seen a few bucks that looked normal

[Tony270WSM]

Haven't seen any bucks lately, but the day before Thanksgiving last year I found a 3 point who wouldn't leave a doe alone. Went everywhere she went.

[Art Vandeley]

Where I am at, I would definitely say peak. They are dumb as could be. You could sit there and shoot at them and they would still chase that doe. Not that I know from experience or anything.

Mitch

[DogZilla15]

Most the does were bred over a week ago so the first rut is way beyond the peak. We're now in the phase where the bucks are looking for that one last doe and are moving all over the place in order to locate her. There will be another small rut in mid December when the yearling does will be bred if they come into heat plus any older does that were missed the first time around. The bucks will remain interested till around this time in December then will quickly lose their horns and any desire to breed.

[Mossyhorn]

Saw one buck this weekend following a doe, it was weird though. The doe was just doing her thing feeding on the edge of a cut and this buck just stood there and watched her from about 50 yards. She would moving then he would move and just stand there. He never got close to her. They finally moved into the reprod.

I can't get anything to respond to rattling antlers or doe bleats and I've done quite a few setups.

[Dave Smith]

Originally Posted by DogZilla15

Most the does were bred over a week ago so the first rut is way beyond the peak. We're now in the phase where the bucks are looking for that one last doe and are moving all over the place in order to locate her. There will be another small rut in mid December when the yearling does will be bred if they come into heat plus any older does that were missed the first time around. The bucks will remain interested till around this time in December then will quickly lose their horns and any desire to breed.

Amazes me to hear reports like this! Just goes to show how different things can be in different areas! I have been scouting hard almsot daily and tending 6 cams and things had just barely started to heat up recently. Rifle hunters in the area I hunt did very poorly and there has been no evidence of any does being bred at all except in just the last 8 or 10 days, though I'm sure my little scouting escapades and trail cams don't reveal all- he he. On the valley floor there has been some pretty good activity from what I hear. Also, last year I tried to learn about this "second rut" and decided it was mostly a myth (just my own conclusion)- the rutting activity steadily declined- it never spiked up like they say it does in the magazine articles we all read.

[3fletch]

The does will come in heat 10-14 days after the 2cnd full moon after the autumn equinox. The full moon was on the 13th, that would mean the does will start to come in season any day now and again 30 days after if they are not bred.


It never ceases to amaze me what some people come up with.

[Rank Amateur]

Originally Posted by 3fletch

The does will come in heat 10-14 days after the 2cnd full moon after the autumn equinox. The full moon was on the 13th, that would mean the does will start to come in season any day now and again 30 days after if they are not bred.


It never ceases to amaze me what some people come up with.

I haven't boned up on the deer rut, but some articles I have read about the elk rut seemed to disagree with the lunar equation as far as rut is concerned. Seemed that amount of daylight and weather were more critical aspects of producing rut in elk.

You seem kinda indignant that some people have a different opinion than you, do you have any document data to support your claims??? We are all hear to learn.

[Gun Rod Bow]

Originally Posted by Dave Smith

Amazes me to hear reports like this! Just goes to show how different things can be in different areas! I have been scouting hard almsot daily and tending 6 cams and things had just barely started to heat up recently. Rifle hunters in the area I hunt did very poorly and there has been no evidence of any does being bred at all except in just the last 8 or 10 days, though I'm sure my little scouting escapades and trail cams don't reveal all- he he. On the valley floor there has been some pretty good activity from what I hear. Also, last year I tried to learn about this "second rut" and decided it was mostly a myth (just my own conclusion)- the rutting activity steadily declined- it never spiked up like they say it does in the magazine articles we all read.

I have been sittin most mornings and evenings for about 8 days.

I saw one of the best bucks on my cams locked up on a doe last Sat. Since then I have seen 1 small buck sniff a doe and curl his lip then leave them as the doe and fawn walked to my stand.

I have does I am seeing days in a row hanging around with fawns at side in the same place.

I have been pulling cards on 6 cams every 2 days and the bucks are NOT out in daylight and the bucks on my cams are coming in alone and hanging around ncalm for 1/2 hour at a time.

I thought things were going good when I saw the good buck locked up last week, but since then, not much happening.

Stupid deer!

[slave4chrome]

Originally Posted by Gun Rod Bow

I have been sittin most mornings and evenings for about 8 days.

I saw one of the best bucks on my cams locked up on a doe last Sat. Since then I have seen 1 small buck sniff a doe and curl his lip then leave them as the doe and fawn walked to my stand.

I have does I am seeing days in a row hanging around with fawns at side in the same place.

I have been pulling cards on 6 cams every 2 days and the bucks are NOT out in daylight and the bucks on my cams are coming in alone and hanging around ncalm for 1/2 hour at a time.

I thought things were going good when I saw the good buck locked up last week, but since then, not much happening.

Stupid deer!

I have seen a very similar pattern, with the exception of a few more bucks, and missing a huge 4 point on the opener. but last sat good then all is just ok. those bucks are movin, here for 30 minutes there for 30 minutes...

[TubeFly]

They are moving around. The resident bucks I usually see every few days are totally gone right now (hopefully not in someone's freezer from rifle season ). I think due to the mild weather we are all seeing the majority of rut activity occurring at night and therefore we aren't seeing them during the day as much. I think a lot of people equate seeing the bucks during the day as the rut is occurring...........it has been my experience when the weather is mild they get busy at night and then lay low during the day.

[Dave Smith]

Originally Posted by 3fletch

The does will come in heat 10-14 days after the 2cnd full moon after the autumn equinox. The full moon was on the 13th, that would mean the does will start to come in season any day now and again 30 days after if they are not bred.


It never ceases to amaze me what some people come up with.

This theory is based on a 200-day gestation period so fawns will be born during a dark moon (for survival), so it would have to be backed-up about 10 days for blacktails (right?), however, it sure seems to be dead-on according to my scouting this year. I firmly believe that the higher elevation deer of the Cascades rut later than the Valley deer, again, for fawn survival benefit at time of birth. If this is true then fawns could be born during a full moon this spring in the high country. The need to be born in warmer weather might override the need to be born during a dark moon.
I also firmly believe that you cannot flatly state a 4 day period when the does will come into heat. If a huge majority of them all came into heat at the same time, it would only take one cold snap at time of birth to wipe out the majority of the fawns. There has to be a variety of times that does come into heat for the species to even be here now, which could explain why no one is witnessing a full-blown crazy rut party.

[TubeFly]

When I worked for ODF&W I used to chat with the lab guy all the time for tidbits of info here and there about such matters. I know there is a main couple of days where the majority of cows and does are bred and there was always data on both sides of the mean for younger does and cows that came into heat later and for those that did not take during the first cycle. Yes there is a second cycle or estrus for mature does and cows that do not conceive during the first. I can remember the exact days for Roosevelt Elk off the top of my head but can't for the Blacktails. I will have to call my buddy who worked in the lab.........

Aside from that I think () nature usually works towards getting all the youngins hatched at about the same time to lower the amount of predation when they are at their weakest point. If it was all spread out the predators would have a new weak batch every week or so causing more availablity to increased predator numbers. The more born at the same time the highter percentage some will get larger sooner through escapement. Salmon, herring, sea-turtles, most herd animals and even insects (i.e, hatches) usually work this way..........

I'll have to ask the lab guy for more specifics and get back. He was the guy that looked at all the ovaries and aged the embryos for exact dates of conception during studies. This too obviously doesn't answer the exact question either because we know bucks don't always play by the rules........

[3fletch]

Originally Posted by Rank Amateur

I haven't boned up on the deer rut, but some articles I have read about the elk rut seemed to disagree with the lunar equation as far as rut is concerned. Seemed that amount of daylight and weather were more critical aspects of producing rut in elk.

You seem kinda indignant that some people have a different opinion than you, do you have any document data to support your claims??? We are all hear to learn.

All of the reading that I have done on the subject leads me to believe the more we know the more we need to learn. I have read books and articles
by the authors (Allen Morris, Al Hayden, and Charles Alsheimer) all of these gentlemen studied Whitetails and there is very little information on Blacktails... I base most of my statements on a combination of these guys studies and my 30 years of chasing these blacktails around during the rut, also my dad,s 50+ years of hunting them.

[kill2hunt]

im not a deer so i dont know exactly where they are at in their breeding cycle, but i do know i saw a MONSTER in the middle of the day right in a clear cut on public land that gets hammered by the hunters!?! that tells me they are getting pretty dumb.

[Rank Amateur]

Originally Posted by 3fletch

All of the reading that I have done on the subject leads me to believe the more we know the more we need to learn. I have read books and articles
by the authors (Allen Morris, Al Hayden, and Charles Alsheimer) all of these gentlemen studied Whitetails and there is very little information on Blacktails... I base most of my statements on a combination of these guys studies and my 30 years of chasing these blacktails around during the rut, also my dad,s 50+ years of hunting them.

Fair enough, but I think we would really need to define the rut better which you have to a degree. For many of us, the rut is when the bucks are out moving around and are getting stupid to a certain degree. We are not really concerned about the exact timing of the breeding, maybe we should be, is it the very best time to be in the woods?

I do have some data on blacktail fawning dates in the Cedar Creek enclosure study that was done on the west slope of the coast range near Tillamook. Ten year study, seems if I remember right the first week in June was the peak of the fawn drop. If that was consistent year to year then it would discount the lunar cycles. That is what the elk research showed too. I will do some digging when I get time.

I don't chase the blacktails in the rut, but being mainly a coast second season elk hunter, it is our experience the bucks (in years past) have usually been very much in the rut during our third week of November hunt. Unfortunately now, there are so few deer it is almost impossible to get an accurate picture of what is going on, just a few tracks here and there. Of 6 days of scouting elk and 1 day hunting, I saw a grand total of 3 deer, no bucks. Did see the typical buck tracks going down the road at night that would go for a mile at a shot, probably have to go that far to find a Doe.

[Dave Smith]

Originally Posted by TubeFly

Aside from that I think () nature usually works towards getting all the youngins hatched at about the same time to lower the amount of predation when they are at their weakest point. If it was all spread out the predators would have a new weak batch every week or so causing more availablity to increased predator numbers.

Aaaaagh, I just learned something- again! I was thinking that the fawn production would be spread out incase of a hard freeze at the time of birth- that would insure that some would survive each spring and the whole "crop" wouldn't be wiped out by bad weather.
I think the theory you presented makes alot more sense!!!! There's not that much bad weather in the late spring, anyway.

Dave

[Wheels]

[quote=TubeFly;2276565]

Aside from that I think () nature usually works towards getting all the youngins hatched at about the same time to lower the amount of predation when they are at their weakest point. If it was all spread out the predators would have a new weak batch every week or so causing more availablity to increased predator numbers. The more born at the same time the highter percentage some will get larger sooner through escapement.


I really don't know what the "science" is or what "studies" show but I would have to disagree with this. Personally, through many years of experience in the blacktail woods, I have seen (newly born) fawns at the beginning of may and as late as early July. That would be approximately a 2 1/2 month period when fawns are dropping. Which makes sense.......depending on if mom was bread in late Oct. or Mid Dec. Anyway, I think if all the fawns dropped within the same two weeks or month, the predators would have more of a hayday because they could hang close to a large population of does and then swoop in and take out a big number of fawns at one time. If it was spread out over a couple months, it would be more of a guessing game for the predators????? just my experience/2 cents. Wheels.

[SandyRiverFisher]

I read this today on the ODFW rec report:

Deer continue to be active as the weather cools and despite the decrease in rutting activity. Biologists are seeing some bucks still out looking for receptive does which will keep them moving around the woods, making them vulnerable to hunters who have positioned their tree stands or ground blinds along well-used trails. Rattling antlers and/or using grunt tube calls will continue to be effective for hunters. Hunter’s shouldn’t rattle or call too aggressively this time of year.

Maybe that was my problem last weekend, rattling too aggressively.

Also, I dont know how muleys correlate with blacktails, but I took the kids out looking at deer yestarday (Muleys). 175 deer total, of which 6 were bucks and only 2 of those were with does and only one of the two was a mature deer. All the other bucks were solitary with a lot less swelling in the necks than we have seen the last few weeks. Things seem to be winding down on the Eastside, at least where we were at.

[BlacktailBowhunter]

I guess it depends on the area you are in.

I have just started to see serious rub lines in the past week and finally got a buck on cam last week where I had only filmed does in the past.

I did get a buck on cam about 2 1/2 weeks ago over a rub, but there were zero does in 4 days and the buck was the only animal photoed.

I hope it is steaming the 27th through the 30th.

A friend showed me an area Sunday with about 30 rubs in a square mile. We have high hopes.

BTBH