Poachers at work

[SandyRiverFisher]

Went out to poke around the woods again yesterday. Its funny, right about late October, just as the rut was kickin in we were seeing tons of deer, literally 100 or more a day. As the weeks have gone on that number has dissipated to the point that in this area you will be lucky to see a half dozen does, and no bucks, despite the rut. One evening we were out this way visiting a friend and went on a little drive, after the sun had set we were heading out on the forest road and were passed by two 4X4 vehicles headed in. A few days later I went up to this area to take photos and although I was there at first light and never saw another vehicle or person in the area, every road, skid road, and goat trail in the area had been driven repeatedly. The only thing I could think of was spotlighters. The last few trips have been the worst so far. My suspicions confirmed, I have now discovered the carcass of a doe shot in the throat, a puddle of fresh blood in the middle of a skid road, the fresh skin of a deer so small it must have been a fawn, and the body of one of the large bucks Id been watching relieved of his skullcap and left to rot and feed the coyotes. Needless to say, Ive been in contact with an OSP game warden, shared my photos and GPS coordinates of the locations. Unfortunately, I think this is going on at night and I have yet to see another vehicle in this area during daylight hours. I sure hope something comes of this, that OSP gets in there and at least puts a stop to it if not catching those responsible. I was so mad after finding the buck yesterday that I was literally sick.

[sprigkiller09]

People amaze me. I hope these bastages are brought to justice. There is no excuse for this kind of low, cheap, disgusting BS.Thanks for sharing it is important to know how much of this there actually is out there. And it is up to us to try and put a stop to it. Thanks for doing your part!!

[shadowstalker]

I wonder if its possible for OSP to use Volunteers to catch Poachers. Get 4 or 5 guys and a couple of troopers, all with radios to cover an area that has been hit hard. I would certianly sit out in the cold a few different nights to try and catch someone, and I can't imagine I'm the only one.

[No Fences]

Originally Posted by sprigkiller09

People amaze me. I hope these bastages are brought to justice. There is no excuse for this kind of low, cheap, disgusting BS.Thanks for sharing it is important to know how much of this there actually is out there. And it is up to us to try and put a stop to it. Thanks for doing your part!!

Maybe write down license plate #'s next time you're out there and give those to the OSP?

[MJ13]

That's the kind of stuff that give us REAL hunters a bad name. Your average joe tree hugger see that and think, damn those hunters. It makes me sick.

[rem721]

Too many poachers escape justice with what amounts to a slap on the wrist. Too the uneducaded, we as hunters are grouped with these criminals. As hunters, we need to demand stricter penalties. I think it is a great idea to see if we couldn't work with OSP to try and catch more of these lowlifes. Like Sandy River, I have been out in the woods a fair amount this fall and have been alarmed by the number of rigs I have seen going in after dark.

Thanks Jon, for doing your part!

[SandyRiverFisher]

Originally Posted by Rob Kaiser

Maybe write down license plate #'s next time you're out there and give those to the OSP?

Oh, I would have if Id seen any. The two vehicles that passed me going in were going the opposite direction at a high rate of speed in the dark. Unfortunately, I got no plate #'s. the flip side of this is that about a week ago I observed a guy shooting at deer, basically from his truck, in the Paulina unit. called the TIP line less than 10 minutes after the incident with full description and plate #'s, was told by the lady who answered the phone that the "cascade Buck season" was going on in the PAULINA unit but that she would pass along the info. never heard back from anybody on that one. With this incident I recorded all the info i could, took pics, GPS cords, called the tip line, sent all the info VIA E-mail to the OSPFWD generally, then again to the specific trooper who was going out to investigate.

Since Ive lived in Central Oregon, which is all of about two months, Ive seen more poaching than in all my life on the west side. Seeing these huge rutting bucks acting stupid and coming out if the hills to chase local suburban does apparently brings out the worst in some people. Good thing i didnt see these guys doing it, i dont know what I would have done. With hunting seasons winding down, what id like to see is OSP throw out one of their decoys and see who they get taking shots at it. Im sure that they will handle it though, one way or another.

[No Fences]

Originally Posted by SandyRiverFisher

Oh, I would have if Id seen any. The two vehicles that passed me going in were going the opposite direction at a high rate of speed in the dark. Unfortunately, I got no plate #'s. the flip side of this is that about a week ago I observed a guy shooting at deer, basically from his truck, in the Paulina unit. called the TIP line less than 10 minutes after the incident with full description and plate #'s, was told by the lady who answered the phone that the "cascade Buck season" was going on in the PAULINA unit but that she would pass along the info. never heard back from anybody on that one. With this incident I recorded all the info i could, took pics, GPS cords, called the tip line, sent all the info VIA E-mail to the OSPFWD generally, then again to the specific trooper who was going out to investigate.

Since Ive lived in Central Oregon, which is all of about two months, Ive seen more poaching than in all my life on the west side. Seeing these huge rutting bucks acting stupid and coming out if the hills to chase local suburban does apparently brings out the worst in some people. Good thing i didnt see these guys doing it, i dont know what I would have done. With hunting seasons winding down, what id like to see is OSP throw out one of their decoys and see who they get taking shots at it. Im sure that they will handle it though, one way or another.

I understand now. I remember that case a few weeks ago and like I said then, keep squeeling and eventually the OSP guy will get tired enough of your info and complaints to do something. If he doesn't, contact someone high on the ladder at ODFW as they basically set the agenda for the Game Troopers.

[SandyRiverFisher]

Originally Posted by Rob Kaiser

I understand now. I remember that case a few weeks ago and like I said then, keep squeeling and eventually the OSP guy will get tired enough of your info and complaints to do something. If he doesn't, contact someone high on the ladder at ODFW as they basically set the agenda for the Game Troopers.

Thats the great thing about this instance, the trooper gave me his personal Email, . The guy seemed genuinely concerned when I talked to him and was already on his way out the door to check out my report. ill bet they do something about it this time, hard to ignore some of the pics i sent him, obviously theres a problem out that way. Im also pretty sure I have pictures of this buck from a week or two ago. GPS cords of the before and after photos are approx. 200yards apart. The carcass was definitely a big, trophy buck. If its the one i think it is he was a stud, what a waste! Still makes me sick to my stomach to think about it.

[Uncle ted]

i know my boys and i would donate time and help film and get pics of poachers or anything else we could do to help out

[No Fences]

Originally Posted by SandyRiverFisher

Thats the great thing about this instance, the trooper gave me his personal Email, . The guy seemed genuinely concerned when I talked to him and was already on his way out the door to check out my report. ill bet they do something about it this time, hard to ignore some of the pics i sent him, obviously theres a problem out that way. Im also pretty sure I have pictures of this buck from a week or two ago. GPS cords of the before and after photos are approx. 200yards apart. The carcass was definitely a big, trophy buck. If its the one i think it is he was a stud, what a waste! Still makes me sick to my stomach to think about it.

That's great to hear. Good for you in doing what a lot of us wish we had more time to do......Thank You.

[CombinationLicense]

Originally Posted by Rob Kaiser

That's great to hear. Good for you in doing what a lot of us wish we had more time to do......Thank You.

Thanks for turning in the TIP

"CL"

[Benny]

That's extremely discouraging. It makes me wonder what kind of motivation drives such an individual (although it was probably a group mentality at the time).

[rem721]

The bottom line is these thieves are stealing from all of us. Everyone wants to blame cougars for the decline in wildlife. Read the latest OSP newsletter, the link is provided in a post by Combo License and you get an idea of how widespread this problem is. I know times are tough but I believe most poaching is done for the thrill of it. Again, penalties need to be MUCH tougher than they are now and enforcement needs to be increased. I will give OSP credit for the job they are doing with limited resources

Many, many years ago I used to hunt SW of Lakeview. The area we hunted had pretty fair deer numbers and we got some nice bucks out of there. One year 82 or 3, we did not see a SINGLE deer. A local rancher told us that a poaching ring from Lakeview had been busted and the very conservative number of deer they had killed was over 200. It was years before the area we hunted even started to recover. Poaching is a MAJOR threat to our wildlife.

I know there are members of the OSA on this board. What can we do collectivly to try and change the way poachers are dealt with?

[rrust1]

Sickening.

[Ziess]

That really makes my blood boil. I'm not sure what I would do if I caught somebody in the act of something like that.

[StickFish]

I see nothing by the year on the calendar changes. The coast range was like this when I quit hunting it just before the HLS problem was recognized. We would pass lots of rigs coming OUT in the morning on our way in. Most of them with lots of EXTRA lights all over the rig. Lit up it must have looked like a UFO.

Call the Federal Fish & Wildlife
Call the County Sheriff's Office
Call OSP

Keep on them what your observations are. Better yet catch someone pics and plate numbers.

The real problem obviously is enforcement. Worse yet is we live within the boundaries of the very wild minded 9th Circuit Court of Appeals. Why is that important. Well they have thrown out several cases where poachers were cited with lights and rifles in the car spot lighting at night. Court decided that they were not shown to be hunting and that possession of the weapon in the presence of the light wasn't illegal

One of the last hunts that I participated in on the coast - man it was 13 years ago now - envolved a late season cow tag in part of the Trask unit - Wind River I believe. There was supposed to be only 90 tags, but we would see 900 hunters and hundreds of vehicles and dog hunters. Every track we cut had dog tracks on them and I'd have to listen to them brag on the CB all the way home about all the deer and elk they chased that day.

Well we started complaining. Took three weeks to get some action. The Feds, OSP and Country all showed up and started writting tickets for everything. One example I heard a guy moaning on the radio about, not having a unit map of all things. Course he wasn't complaining about the one for hunting a controlled hunt without a valid tag. Anyway this went on for the whole weekend. the next weekend - we were the only ones in the woods - the way it was supposed to be. Took another week before the elk settled down enough to fall back into their normal habbits and we were able to connect.

Don't think there is a problem - go drive out into the woods about this time of year at night - stop the car get out and watch the stars - pic a nice high spot like Mt Hebo and start counting rigs driving the roads and the gun shots. It is a wonder there is any game left at all given the rampent poaching, HLS and CWD.

[Smoked Salmon]

Originally Posted by MJ13

That's the kind of stuff that give us REAL hunters a bad name. Your average joe tree hugger see that and think, damn those hunters. It makes me sick.

I just think they don't like guns, and are ignorant of the wisdom inherent in wild vs store-bought meat. If they were truly so stupid as to equate poaching with hunting, they should also be so stupid as to think all shoppers are shoplifters.
The few never define the many, and a lot of the anti-hunters don't need the poaching to feel "good" about their moral agenda.

[SandyRiverFisher]

Just to update, I have now emailed my information about this incident and the incident from a few weeks ago to about every person at ODFW whose E-mails I could find via the net, as well as to multiple individuals at the OSPFWD. I recieved an E-mail back this evening from ODFW assuring me that the information has been forwarded to the proper individuals and that they are working on the issue. Lets hope they fallow through.

[Bearden]

Rude post removed by Bearden.

Bearden

[rem721]

good work Jon!! Thanks!!

[No Fences]

Originally Posted by Bearden

Great...now you have multiple people wasting time during this busy time of year to figure out that the first guy you contacted is already taking care of it. Kind of like Mom doesn't give you the candy you want immediately so you go ask Dad!

Bearden

Not quit so. It's more like this is an ON GOING problem that needs to be stopped and there appeared to be ne sense of urgency from the LE side, so he contacted more folks. Obviously it worked.

Doesn't matter what time of year it is, they need to be working on protecting our wildlife from the lowlifes and that's what WE pay them for.

[yagermeister]

We hunt the S.W. Washington Cascades around Packwood. Last weekend was late buck season in the area. It was truly amazing how many vehicles we saw going into the woods as we were coming out, and it was within a few minutes of the end of legal shooting time. It was, in our opinion, already too late to hunt, as there was cloud cover and you would just about need night vision to see anything. We noticed this two days in a row. One friend who lives in the area said he has heard shots in the middle of the night more than once. Maybe if they dealt with poachers here as they do in places like Africa the problem would be far less prevalent!

[SandyRiverFisher]

Originally Posted by Bearden

Great...now you have multiple people wasting time during this busy time of year to figure out that the first guy you contacted is already taking care of it. Kind of like Mom doesn't give you the candy you want immediately so you go ask Dad!

Bearden

yup, the more guys working on it the better!!!

Just jokin, the E-mail I sent out included the fact that Id already been in contact with an OSP gamie, and I gave his name and the details of our conversation. The idea was to make ODFW managers aware of what was going on in addition to OSP.

Your right though, if mom doesnt give me what I want I will go ask dad. Im not about to stand by and let poachers wipe out some of the deer ive been seeing. If im right this buck is the same one my kids got to watch tending his does last week. He should still be out there spreading his good genes, not going to waste to feed the ravens and yotes.

[GDuck]

Originally Posted by Bearden

Great...now you have multiple people wasting time during this busy time of year to figure out that the first guy you contacted is already taking care of it. Kind of like Mom doesn't give you the candy you want immediately so you go ask Dad!

Bearden

Working in the LE field this is EXACTLY what he should have done. And if he gets no response the go directly to Captain Markee in charge of Game Enforcement along with a letter to Kulongoski and the OSP Superintendant. Like it or not, sometimes the guy getting the call doesn't want to be where he is. In this case it sounds like he's doing his job so we'll see.

G

[SandyRiverFisher]

Originally Posted by GDuck

Working in the LE field this is EXACTLY what he should have done. And if he gets no response the go directly to Captain Markee in charge of Game Enforcement along with a letter to Kulongoski and the OSP Superintendant. Like it or not, sometimes the guy getting the call doesn't want to be where he is. In this case it sounds like he's doing his job so we'll see.

G

From what I gather from responses to a couple of my E-mails there are ODFW officials (non-law enforcement) who are interested in some of this info. The other issue with all this is the incident a couple weeks ago in the Paulina unit. The people answering the TIP hotline dont seem to be familiar with the legal seasons in various areas of the state. If the people answereing the phone are telling the caller that what they witnessed was most likely legal hunting in a legal season, and that is not the case, then whats the point of having the hotline??? the problem is compounded when you consider that someone unfamiliar with the seasons may later disregard future poaching that they witness after being told that its most likely legal. Who do you call about this? Clearly not the gamies responsibility to police the TIP hotline, so I emailed higher-ups within the department.

How sad is it when you have to get on a hunting websight and defend your actions trying to stop poachers???

[Bearden]

Sorry for the rude post. I deleted it. To explain, I believe game wardens are doing the job because they want to catch the poachers and even though we know they have different talent/success levels, they take a team approach to these deals and it is amazing what cases they make with the amount of evidence they have. The dead deer's friends don't talk. Each poached deer is like a murder case, but instead of a team of investigators working on a couple of murders a year, there is one or two game wardens working on probably 30 big game murders a year plus a bunch of other stuff. I have a police officer friend who has people call in silly complaints on him or going over his head for no reason and it just slows him down. I assumed thats what was going on based on your comments, and was wrong to assume.

If you called the TIP line, you talked to a dispatcher for all State Police, not a game officer. We can probably all learn from this and make sure that they know we are not a dummy calling in that they have to weed through. Maybe figure out who they are going to dispatch the call to and get their office # or whatever they will give you.

Bearden

[Pond]

Welcome to Central Oregon SandyRiverFisher and home to a huge poaching problem. I finally got a forward of your email today. I read this post late last night and haven't had a chance to respond....was in the Metolius unit most of the day. I'll also give you a phone call.

Just so the readers of this thread know. The Central Oregon wildlife management units have one of the highest non-complaince rates in the entire state. All of my 6 guys hunt & fish and do the majority of it right here. We all take the job very seriously...almost personally. We do WED operations at various times of the year and day/night. You are not witnessing new poaching activities. A couple years ago we attempted to pattern some poachers of China Hat Road. We set up WED bucks every Friday night for a month. We caught people every friday night. The bad part was they were from all over. One vehicle had 3 guys with numerous guns and spotlights & alcohol from Coos Bay. Some of the others were locals. Everyone knows about our deer winter ranges and big bucks. I've seen some of the fantastic photo's you've taken. It no secret the big buck are rutt'n. I hate to say it but this time of year is getting to be known as poaching season and the big bucks aren't safe til they drop there antlers. Then comes search warrant season when we make house calls to some suprised people and make arrests in the comforts of there own homes.

We catch a lot of poachers, you normally don't hear about them as the local papers doesn't list them in the police logs. Just the ones I send press releases on.

The Bend office used to have 4 game troopers not including the sgt. and pilot. Now 2 troops, 1 pilot (who even caught a poacher last week in the Metolius unit cause the weather was to bad to fly), 1 sgt..

I only have one troop in Prineville who works Ochoco, Grizzly, & Maurys, that's a big area.

We will continue to see poaching like this until our F&W become a real priority to our citizens and the state. We know we have poaching problems and where they most likely occurr. I just can't man those areas 24 hours a day with my resources. Like I said earlier, it's not a new problem. I glad that a new set of eyes are seeing it and is as appauled as the rest of us.

Pond

[SandyRiverFisher]

Right on Pond, Thanks for all your hard work, you guys have quite the job. Like ive said, Ive lived in Central OR for about two months and have been blown away by the poaching. Im seeing signs of it everywhere I go. Ill keep giving you guys the heads up as I see it!

[No Fences]

Pond,

Thank you for your tiring service. It can be a very thankless job, but rest assured that most of us here really do appreciate all that you guys are able to accomplish. I hope some day that your field will recieve the necessary resources to be able to make a noticable dent in the poaching epidemic. Keep up the goos work.

[Rank Amateur]

Officer Pond,

Is there something the sportsmen can do to help? Can you use volunteers on the WED'S to keep the use of officers to the minimum, volunteer spotters, other uses of volunteers??

[Limbhanger]

Originally Posted by Pond

We will continue to see poaching like this until our F&W become a real priority to our citizens and the state.
Pond

Not only will we see poaching continue, but our herds will continue to be hammered by predators. The state has pretty much let us know how they feel about hunting and taking control of the resources. We are basically in a slow death spiral and they are doing just enough to make us all feel that something is being done.

[Uncle ted]

i know the best thing we can do is report poachers BUT give us some ideas of what would help you the most in catching these guys. I'm sure you could get a ton of us to volunteer to help out in MANY ways. i personally would go sit out all night with scruffy to help setup video take pics give out citizen arrest tickets anything i could do to help out.

Originally Posted by Rank Amateur

Officer Pond,

Is there something the sportsmen can do to help? Can you use volunteers on the WED'S to keep the use of officers to the minimum, volunteer spotters, other uses of volunteers??

[GDuck]

Originally Posted by Pond

Welcome to Central Oregon SandyRiverFisher and home to a huge poaching problem. I finally got a forward of your email today. I read this post late last night and haven't had a chance to respond....was in the Metolius unit most of the day. I'll also give you a phone call.

Just so the readers of this thread know. The Central Oregon wildlife management units have one of the highest non-complaince rates in the entire state. All of my 6 guys hunt & fish and do the majority of it right here. We all take the job very seriously...almost personally. We do WED operations at various times of the year and day/night. You are not witnessing new poaching activities. A couple years ago we attempted to pattern some poachers of China Hat Road. We set up WED bucks every Friday night for a month. We caught people every friday night. The bad part was they were from all over. One vehicle had 3 guys with numerous guns and spotlights & alcohol from Coos Bay. Some of the others were locals. Everyone knows about our deer winter ranges and big bucks. I've seen some of the fantastic photo's you've taken. It no secret the big buck are rutt'n. I hate to say it but this time of year is getting to be known as poaching season and the big bucks aren't safe til they drop there antlers. Then comes search warrant season when we make house calls to some suprised people and make arrests in the comforts of there own homes.

We catch a lot of poachers, you normally don't hear about them as the local papers doesn't list them in the police logs. Just the ones I send press releases on.

The Bend office used to have 4 game troopers not including the sgt. and pilot. Now 2 troops, 1 pilot (who even caught a poacher last week in the Metolius unit cause the weather was to bad to fly), 1 sgt..

I only have one troop in Prineville who works Ochoco, Grizzly, & Maurys, that's a big area.

We will continue to see poaching like this until our F&W become a real priority to our citizens and the state. We know we have poaching problems and where they most likely occurr. I just can't man those areas 24 hours a day with my resources. Like I said earlier, it's not a new problem. I glad that a new set of eyes are seeing it and is as appauled as the rest of us.

Pond

Hello Pond,

I guess my question revolves around your funding. Your funding should be very stable is it not, since you are funded through dedicated funding unlike the rest of OSP?? I thought that was the case? No? If it is, are you all temporarily short gamies or is something else up where even "your" numbers have been cut? I have seen a new recruit or two in my 'hood, are there more in recruit school?? How about the retirees that come back to work in the fall? Any over there?

Thanks,

G

[bigjake_888]

I think we should organize the first annual Ifish Poacher Going to Get Them Night.

1. Set up a decoy over on the coast range at night.
2. Get our cameras.
3. Take pictures of the whole thing.
4. Report with evidence to OSP.

OR

Offer 100 dollar bounty to persons who set up a decoy and show evidence leading to a conviction of poaching.

My wife perfers the latter and I will pay the first bounty. 100 bucks in the pot. You have it in writing.

[Rank Amateur]

Easy fellows, we want to go easy here, we need to work with the officers not independent of them. Way too much can go wrong and too much liability.

We already know they have used civilians to help on WEDS, this helps to cut the number of officers needed to conduct these stings.

Another idea that I purposed years ago is using people stationed on key look out points looking for spotlight activity and then commuticating locations. The staters can not have the eye in the sky all the time, so this would extend there reach during spotlighting season.

I'm sure there are other things we can do, but we need to let the staters ask for the help.

[Uncle ted]

Originally Posted by Rank Amateur

but we need to let the staters ask for the help.

thats what i am asking. what besides calling the tip line can we do to be more of a help to them. us legal guys want to help to make a big dif in poaching.

[StickFish]

Thanks Pond. How do I volunteer to help stop this? PM me!

[hunter41]

Since the poachers are shooting and leaving these animals to waste for the coyotes and bears, i think we should CATCH THE SON OF A GUNS, TIE THEM TO A TREE AND TAPE THEIR MOUTHS SHUT, HANG THE ROTTEN CARCASUS BY THEM AND WATCH THEM SOIL THEIR PANTS AS A BIG OLE BEAR OR COYOTE COMES IN.

[rem721]

Pond, thanks for all that you do!

[quackersnacker]

Thanks SRF for your efforts and willingness to "do what it takes" to find a solution.
Thanks all LE guys, Pond, GDuck and other silent members for doing what you can!
And to everyone else who is keeping their eyes and ears open to things that are out of place.