shotgun question???

[scarr]

When it comes to goose hunting........Does a 3 1/2" give you any advantage over the 3"? Range? Pattern? I shoot a 3" and dont usually have any problem knocking down birds but a friend rarely gets his birds and is thinking about upgrading to a 3 1/2". I think fit and practice are more important but thought I would ask some of you.

[Teton]

I don't like 3 1/2" shells for any application, but that is just me. Others do.

[RainierRiverRat]

I've never had any problems shooting a 3in... But I haven't shot a 3 1/2 either. Thats just me though.

[steelheadslayer]

I've found that 3&1/2 shells don't kill the birds any deader than 3" shells. I shoot 3" BB's for geese and I can't remember when I've hit one and saw it fly away. Pattern your gun with different shells and find out which choke/shell combo gives you the best pattern and then use it, trust it and you'll kill a lot more birds. Confidence is everything.

[beretta686]

If you make good hits the birds will fall, 3" or 31/2". I have never had a problem with 3" shells. For my shotgun BB shot is the answer.

[Gun Rod Bow]

What all of them said.

[Allwelded]

patterning your gun will definatly help. Find out what load/choke fits your gun best

[Threemuch]

3.5 kicks harder too, if you are flinching, it will make it worse. If you aren't it might make you start. It certainly won't help poor shooting, and will set you back a pretty penny.

3" BB will kill anything that flys.

[fhs willamette]

3" worked fine for me. Then I got a new Benelli Nova camo and love it. I think the 3.5 shells are a little better but maybe I just like the gun better...

[handsmellikenet]

Good choke + BB Will do the trick. I think 3 1/2'' are a waste of money. I have hit and missed the same amount with 3'' as with 3 1/2'' shells.

[No Fences]

Just think of how many years they killed them with the 2 3/4.

[Don Fischer]

Originally Posted by Rob Kaiser

Just think of how many years they killed them with the 2 3/4.

Somebody was goiing to have to mention that! I've never shot anything other than 2 3/4 but also haven't waterfowl hunted since about 1973. At that time the most important thing in cleanly killing a goose was to shoot when it was in range and to hit it well.

[SImudBogger]

Originally Posted by Rob Kaiser

Just think of how many years they killed them with the 2 3/4.

filled with #6 lead of course!

[Linejerk]

Originally Posted by Threemuch

3.5 kicks harder too, if you are flinching, it will make it worse. If you aren't it might make you start. It certainly won't help poor shooting, and will set you back a pretty penny.

3" BB will kill anything that flys.

[Bluefinn]

The 3 1/2" deliver more shot in the air with the same velocity as 3".You will notice the recoil in a pump gun.I have killed many geese at long ranges with 3 1/2 " shells.The 3 1/2" 00 buck is very deadly on Deer and coyotes.Not to mentin a load of 3 1/2" 4 for Turkeys.I love my Super Black Eagle.I would not dream of owning a different all around Shotgun.

[duckboy]

A shotgun that can shoot 3.5 inchers is really good at 1 thing, and probably better at it than just about any other waterfowling accoutrement.

It is great at selling 3.5 inch shotgun shells, and perpetuating the idea that the extra 1/2 inch of shot (which is going to be dragging and drizzling at the back end of the shot string) is going to knock down more fowl.

I have shot quail to Coyote with 3 inchers.

the 3.5 incher was supposed to deliver a payload like a 10 ga, (as though it was superior to a 12 ga).

Anyone that has ever had to carry a 10 ga all day understands that it has some serious shortcomings.

What use
the Howitzer

in the dodging
of doves?

[Moe]

Originally the 3 1/2" shells gave you more shot. Now that folks have found out that steel shot kills better at higher velocity the 3 1/2" shells give you a little less shot moving at higher velocity and making cleaner kills.

I've killed a lot of geese with 2 3/4" shells with lead 2's but I went to a 3" gun when we were forced to shoot steel. I now shoot a 3 1/2" gun and I love it. I still shoot 3" for ducks and 3 1/2" BBB's for big geese. I kill a lot of geese.

[DC]

The difference in cost between 3 in. shells and 3.5 in. makes the three inchers much more to be desired if you are going to shoot very much. The difference in recoil of the 3 in. shell is also much more favorable if you shoot very much. If you can't hit them with 3 in. shells you still will miss them with3.5's. Simply practice more and shoot 3's.

[wapiteaser]

The 3 1/2 inch gun will rock your shoulder if you shoot much. It is much slower than the 3 inch loads. Stick to your 3 inch and save your shoulder and cripple less geese and ducks.

[Born To Fish 2]

Why is it always the "Friends" that need help???? Ha Ha.

Good question. We used to always shoot Ducks with 2 3/4" # 6's and Geese with 3" # 2 lead. But since we now shoot Steel we are using 2 3/4 # 3 for ducks and 3" BB for Geese with quite good success. We'd do better if our "Friends" were better shots. Ha Ha.

[thefishslayer]

if they are that far that you have to use a 31/2 than you probably shouldnt be shootin them. get them into range and it doesnt matter

[Tar Heel]

A day at the range is worth the other 1/2" any day.

[billc_sbio]

The "story" about the 3.5" 12 ga. is really one of shooting large size (Goose size) Steel Shot pellets.

It's really pretty much just a physics thing in that back when Lead Shot was still legal for Waterfowl 3" "Magnum" shells were the limit on the(practical) length for a 12 ga. shell and payload system. In fact the heavier 3" Lead shot loads were NOT as good as the "medium" loaded shells.

But when Non-Toxic shot became mandatory and and larger sized Steel pellets became the norm, the limiting factor in payload was really the shell's capacity (because the Steel was lighter).

There just wasn't enough ROOM in the 3" shell to get as many big pellets into the hull as was desired (remember as the pellets get much bigger, there's lots of unused air space in between them).

Up comes a resurgence in popularity for the 10 ga. system, because it had already been developed as a 3.5" Magnum and had the capacity.

But the 10 gauge repeaters are HEAVY.

And, initially some of the 3.5" 12 ga. guns were also heavy (the orginal Browning BPS 3.5" 12 ga. was virtually IDENTICAL to their 10 ga. version except for the Barrel and Magazine tube and "fit" of the parts that had to handle the smaller diameter 12 ga.)

In actuality there's really very little difference between a 10 ga. Magnum and the 3.5" 12 ga. Magnum.

Later, many manufacturers just decided to make their 12 ga. guns with 3.5" capability. So these ones are lighter, typical of the weight of a "normal" 12 ga. As such they are going to kick a lot HARDER when using 3.5" shells.

So in answer to your original question "Is there an advantage to using a 3.5" 12 ga. shell for Goose hunting?"

For shooting LARGE size Steel shot, there IS an advantage. It holds more.

It's basically an "almost 10 ga." shotshell.

[spurcrazy]

If your friend is shooting side by side with you and not killing geese it sounds like his biggest problem is shooting skill. That said, here is my answer to your question.

Either way you look at it, the 3 1/2 inch shell can give you an advantage either in the payload or the speed of shot coming out of the barrel. Regardless, a person has to be able to put the shot in the right place for any of this to matter.

The best advice you can give your friend is to learn how to shoot better. Assuming you are shooting decoying, close birds, your friend should be killing at least one or two every go.

And one more thought, maybe he just gets to excited. Teach him to pick out one bird, stay with it, and kill it. Teach him to focus on the head of the bird, not the whole target.

I took a guy out the other day who had only killed one goose in his life and missed alot, according to him. The first 2 honks of the day were singles. He killed them both with head shots after I told him how to shoot at them. The next to go's were on flocks, and he completely whiffed on birds landing, and getting off the ground at less than 15 yards. I believe he just got to excited and shot 3 times, rather than truly picking out a target, and killing it.

[nevermiss]

I bought a 3 1/2 inch Mossberg a few years back and have had excellent success with it despite having NEVER used anything more than 3 inch shells. You simply need to be able to hit what you aim at. Geese always seem slower moving than they are and you gotta shoot 'em in the lips. Pick your targets ONE at a time and make your shots count. NEVER try any long, unrealistic shots, you'll just educate the birds you're after and many behind them. It might seem a possibility, but is very likely not. LEARN TO SHOOT FIRST, GET CLOSE SECOND.

[Dr Strangelove]

If your friend would get some shooting lessons, the problem may end. Short of that, he's going to need more pellets in the air. If he's limiting himself to steel BB, Hevisteel B, yes go with the 3.5", and get the number of a good orthopedist... those suckers really recoil using "Steel" Powder and high velocities. I went to Hevishot reloading and any #1-4 Hevishot load of 1.25 oz + will pulverize geese depending on your range and skill. The cripple loss falls 80%. With Hevishot, 3.5" shells are an unecessary waste of spacers. That being said, I do reload steel BB's in 3.5" hulls for swat loads on geese to anchor them. Saves on the Hevishot purchases bigtime.

[llama77]

Scarr,
You are correct. It is not the shell. It is fit and practice (Maybe throw in lessons after fit).

If it was the shell, then you would be on here asking why your friend keeps hitting birds and they dont fall down.

60% chance your friends gun doesnt fit him. Probably an equal or greater chance that he is doing something else wrong. Checking the lead instead of focusing on the bird or lifting his head. If you look at the barrel when you are shooting you will stop your swing. Lift you head and you shoot over it.

Do a search on stockfitting. Get a booklet by a guy named Rollin Oswald. It will teach you everything you need to know to do a good job of fitting a shotgun. From eye dominance to pitch.

Then once you get it to fit him, go see Dan Mitchell. He is great at instructing. He can tell you on every shot where your pattern went and what you did wrong.

I hunted chukars for 10 years with a really nice O/U. And I shot a lot!! Never killed a limit with it. Got it fit and got two lessons from Dan and killed a limit my first trip out.

Dan can tell you if your gun fits, in fact he probably wont let you shoot your gun if it doesnt fit.

Took my limit of geese last sunday with 7 shells. And one of those was a follow up shot on a cripple.

We have had excellent results with 2 3/4 "#4 heavy shot.
So 3" or 31/2" or 10 ga. Mossberg or Perrazzi .Most often it aint the shell. Most often it aint the choke. Most often its fit and then your application of proper technique.

PM Riversledder, he will tell you how much Ive improved.
Good luck. Check your gun too and post back up and let us know what you guys find.

The greatest thing that ever happened to shell manufactuers is the standard one size fits all stock!!!

[billc_sbio]

Originally Posted by scarr

When it comes to goose hunting........Does a 3 1/2" give you any advantage over the 3"? Range? Pattern? I shoot a 3" and dont usually have any problem knocking down birds but a friend rarely gets his birds and is thinking about upgrading to a 3 1/2". I think fit and practice are more important but thought I would ask some of you.

Several other responders have already touched on this...is he HITTING them? (Or totally missing them?)

If you're knocking them down and his gun just goes "bang" and nothing happens, well there's a lot of air around a flying goose.

But if he's hitting and rocking them and they're not coming down, then that's another matter (you didn't say which it was).

As the others have mentioned, if he's outright missing them, then obviously the gun's pointed at the wrong place when he pulls the trigger. This could be partially due to Stock fit, and/or he just doesn't know what the "picture" should look like when he pulls the trigger (or stops swinging etc. -shooting form-).

But if he's HITTING them and they're not coming down, then it might be something else.

Are you both shooting similar shells, same payload and shot size?

If not, then maybe that's it.

Or it might be choke selection.

Back when they started pondering the future requirement of use of Steel Shot, Winchester did a number of "Lethality Studies" on live birds at their NILO Farms test facility.

They determined that in order to repeatably incapacitate waterfowl you needed a minimum of FIVE solid body hits. (Of course you always have that "Golden BB" that will bring one down, stone dead, with a single pellet, but you can't count on those the majority of the time).

As your birds get bigger, you have a larger target area to place those 5 pellets (but preferably more). But also as the birds get bigger they have thicker coats of feathers and more muscle that the pellets have to penetrate to reach the vital organs necessary to incapacitate them. This means that each individual pellet has to have MORE Energy.

As a result a KILLING load for Honkers may NOT be effective for Mallards (or even Cacklers) at anything greater than close ranges. (Plenty of energy per pellet, but not enough pellets to place enough hits on a smaller target)

And it works both ways in that a killing load for Mallards over decoys may not be on large Geese at anything further than "Duck Decoying" range. (Plenty of pellets, but not enough energy in any one pellet)

This is nothing really new. The same requirements exist whether you're using Steel, Lead, or something like Hevi-Shot.

The advantage of the denser shot types is just that they hold so much MORE Energy in pellets that are relatively small and can easily fit in a "regular" sized shell.

[scarr]

Originally Posted by Born To Fish 2

Why is it always the "Friends" that need help???? Ha Ha.

Good question. We used to always shoot Ducks with 2 3/4" # 6's and Geese with 3" # 2 lead. But since we now shoot Steel we are using 2 3/4 # 3 for ducks and 3" BB for Geese with quite good success. We'd do better if our "Friends" were better shots. Ha Ha.

Because i hope he reads the post and gets ****** at me.

[scarr]

thanks for the info all. when we shoot at the trap club he actually does fairly well at around 20 for 25 but just doesnt seem to knock down the geese. When i have duck hunted with him he does pretty good on the ducks. maybe the geese just get him too excited. I drove by a field i have permission to hunt today and there must have been 2000 geese in it today. Last year was my first year goose hunting and it is tough as a beginner, but when we did get lucky and bring in the birds we managed to get 1 or 2 each time out. Now that big game season is over I am switching to geese and hoping to have better success with the geese than last year. I have 3 dozen deeks and a couple laydown blinds. we killed most of the birds we shot at but I can remember a few that got rocked and flew off so that has prompted the interest in a 3 1/2" for my buddy. Hopefully, tomorrow we will get lucky again, hide our blinds good enough and knock down some birds despite my bad calling.

[billc_sbio]

Originally Posted by scarr

we killed most of the birds we shot at but I can remember a few that got rocked and flew off so that has prompted the interest in a 3 1/2" for my buddy. Hopefully, tomorrow we will get lucky again, hide our blinds good enough and knock down some birds despite my bad calling.

I'm thinking that IF your buddy still has trouble (and you don't), make sure he's using everything as close to what you're using as can be managed.

That is, same shells, size shot, choke, and shooting at about the same range.

My feeling is that IF you're knocking them down fine with 3" shells he should be able to do the same.

Yes, if he was shooting 3-1/2" shells he'd be launching heavier/denser patterns, but chances are he'd probably be getting pounded harder and his shooting would probably end up being worse.

Anyway, if you're hunting around here and your birds are mainly small race Geese, 3" loads of #1s or BBs is all you need and they'll fold just fine with those.