What would you build?

[Woody]

OK all you Salty Dogs, I'm hooked on salt and it's your fault.

As some of you know, my hobby is building wood boats. I'm thinking of building a salty craft for my next project and I need the opinion of experts.

I would like something large enough to carry a crew of 3 or 4 tuna or halibut fishing, and the resulting carnage, yet small enough that I could put her in the Willamette or the Columbia for salmon. It would need to trailerable.

I plan to use a design from Glen-L. The link to his page is HERE . Just click on "Design Catalog" on the left hand side of the page. I'm leaning towards something in the "Work Boats" section, but there is some interesting designs in "Cruisers" and Inboard Designs".

So, if you don't mind, let me know what you would build if you could build your dream boat.

[ 07-28-2003, 10:06 AM: Message edited by: Woody ]

[Pilar]

Woody, it would have to be a Pacific Dory boat. The engine is inside the boat in the well and there is lots of deck space for fishing. Just one look at Edsr's homemade work of art and you will know what I mean.

Simple, clean design and tough as nails. A fishermans boat.

Dory Rod put it this way when I met him on Friday at S. Beach launch.

You can hear the Valkyries, all the time

Glen-L 's Vee Dory and the big hunk are right there.



[ 07-28-2003, 10:35 AM: Message edited by: Pilar ]

[Big Dog]

Woody have you ever built anything from Glen-L?

I have been toying with the idea of building this boat Riviera, but I don't know anything about his plans.

[Woody]

Thanks Pilar, that exactly what I was thinking. The Big Hunk is not trailerable, so I was thinking about the V-dory. It looks like a little smoother ride as well. As far as cabins, I think I like "B" or "D"

Big Dog, I've never used a Glen-L design. I have a couple of his books on boat building though and I'm very impressed with those. Glen-L has been around forever and from what I can tell, they are the "gold standard" of boat plans. I like the Rivera too. That is a "cold molded" boat. Quite a step up from a plywood dory as far as skills and time. Very cool though.

[ 07-28-2003, 11:08 AM: Message edited by: Woody ]

[Mark Mc]

Hi Woody, one thing to realize is that most of those dory-like designs have flat bottoms, which means they will pound if you try to run at higher speeds in moderate chop / seas. And if you fish tuna or halibut much at all, you can bet it won't be glassy slick most of the time. So this is the dilemma, because you want a river boat too, and something trailerable. To avoid the pounding issue, you want something with some vee to the hull, or better yet a keel or partial keel. But as you go towards a full keel, it is more difficult to put on a trailer. The "double eagle" seems to be close:

"Hull type: Hard chine, vee bottom with skeg, developed for sheet plywood or aluminum."

Good luck.... Mark

[Burner]

I wanted to build this boat http://www.tracyobrien.com/moreinfo.asp?id=28 but I didn't have a garage big enough to build it in :depressed: . Seems salty enough though. Neat thing is its stich and glue. No forms or lofting!!! Wish my garage was ten feet longer.

[ 07-28-2003, 11:48 AM: Message edited by: Burner ]

Give the Calkins Bar Tender a look over.

[ 07-28-2003, 03:07 PM: Message edited by: Keta ]

[crabbait]

Keta you are reading my mind! wOne of the most stable, dependable ocean going designs ever built. Good enough that the Coast Gaurd used them for years. Still a great looking boat after all these years!

Calkins designed and built them in the '60s. I bet the plans are still available. I have seen several home made Bartenders.

[edsr]

All of the above is true. Dorys and other flat bottom boats do pound and the vees do better in handling that but there are trade offs. For their size and the capacity to haul weight the dory consumes minimal fuel. They do ride better with a load. When first tested in the Willamette if the bow was up with a light load we would porpoise once a rythm got started. I loaded it with 640 lbs. of concrete and did the same test and it made all the difference.
My dory is the "hunky dory" plans from Glenn-L - their "v" dory was not available at the time. This boat clocks over 36mph with a light load and with three on board with all tackle 300 lbs of ice and 460lbs of fish we made a little over 26mph coming in two weeks ago. All that with only 90hp.
Some other sources of plans are from Ken Hankinson (former partner to Glenn Witt of
Glenn-L); "Alaska Skiff" ,(they have a website); Clark Craft Boat Co.; Tracy O'Brian - he's up in Wash. Nexus Marine, Wash. and Learned Boats of Pac. Cty. can build about anything you might want. Learned specializes in dories - nice article about him in March 2002 issue of Wooden Boat.
If you are planning a new boat I would enjoy getting together with you over a beer and seeing if there isn't room for a hybrid boat to do those things you need and wood is a very good boat building material.

edsr

[edsr]

A Calkins Bar Tender was my first choice but there is a leap, a big leap in the skill needed to build it and when you look at the cockpit fishing area it isn't really very big. The double ender really has a lot going for it when the water gets rough. If I were going to do a bar-tender the 26' is the way to go with a big inboard. The plans are still available from George he lives up in Wash.

[Rod Holder]

Ken Hankinson has some good plans www.boatdesigns.com I had a craving to build the "Olympian" but then reality set in and I realized that with my wood working skills and patience, a hull held together by duct tape probably wouldn't be to safe so I bought a C-Dory.

[crabbait]

edsr - You are no doubt correct. I just remember watching the Coasties working out with a Bartender in the surf when I was a kid. Man, what a boat. They went throught the stuff forward and backward. Then they did it at speed and only hit the high spots!

For those of you who may not know what a bartender looks like, here is a 26' with a Ford 289cu. for sale in the Boat Trader.



Still one heck of a sea going boat with some great lines. Right Keta?

[ 07-28-2003, 11:17 PM: Message edited by: crabbait ]

[corrirod]

Ahhhhh, the age old dilema of how to pick just one boat to cover all the bases! It can't be done, I'm sure of it.

I'm really starting to like the dory but it does have it's drawbacks. For one, mine is open, which means W E T ! ! When there is a chop you'd better be prepared to get wet. Surprisingly though, and I'm not sure if it's just because my dory is so heavy, it really has handled better in the chop than expected. Last Saturday there was some pretty tight swells but we were able to maintain 20+mph with only an occasional BANG.

One of the biggest benefits I am only starting to capitalize on though is the prime fishing locations realistically only available to dory fishermen, ie. Pacific City, Gearhardt, etc. These places are reachable by general sport boats but not without a long boat ride before and after.

As Pilar said, my favorite selling point on the dory is just the excitement of launching/landing on the beach. I spent my whole life trying to keep my boats off the beach, and now I gun it just to get up as far as I can on the beach.

The Glen-L's are tried and true as far as I can tell. I was looking into building boats for many years but just don't have the space. I was actually looking at an Arch Davis design called the Jack Tar which is basically and east coast lobster boat. Looks cool but not sure it's the right boat for the Pacific.

Link to Arch Davis site

Good luck! Half the fun is just getting there!

Always wanted one.

[Woody]

I love the looks of the Calkins Bar Tender. I'll check around for the plans online.

[Hoosier Daddy]

Oh man, I gotta check this board more often.

Woody, Wooden Boat magazine had an article on bartenders last year sometime. I can look and see when if you want.

Also, all you guys might want to think about going to the Portland Wooden Boat show next month. The 9th and 10th I think. Last years had mostly small stuff, but one big plywood job that I swear was patterned on a big alumaweld. Nice river boat. Anyway, it was pretty cool stuff to look at, and it don't cost nothing to look.

man, you guys are giving me ideas again. I was just getting over my last bout of boat madness too.....darnit, my wife's gonna be mad.....

[Abalone]

Originally posted by Hoosier Daddy:
Oh man, I gotta check this board more often.

Woody, Wooden Boat magazine had an article on bartenders last year sometime. I can look and see when if you want.

Also, all you guys might want to think about going to the Portland Wooden Boat show next month. The 9th and 10th I think. Last years had mostly small stuff, but one big plywood job that I swear was patterned on a big alumaweld. Nice river boat. Anyway, it was pretty cool stuff to look at, and it don't cost nothing to look.

man, you guys are giving me ideas again. I was just getting over my last bout of boat madness too.....darnit, my wife's gonna be mad.....

<font size="2" face="verdana,arial,helv">Where is this wooden boat show in Portland ? What location, I wood love to go there.
I am looking for an old Labstrack row boat to restore ! The funkier the better.

[Big Dog]

Yeah were is the boat show I would also like to go?

[Hoosier Daddy]

Labstrack = lapstrake?

I think its on the Eastbank Esplanade. There is a flier posted on www.riverswest.org . They sponsor it.

[Woody]

Portland Wooden Boat Show
August 9-10, 2003
Location: East Bank Esplanade
along the Willamette River in Portland, OR
at the foot of SE Madison Street

[Hoosier Daddy]

Have you guys seen the Simmons Sea Skiff?

Some pics of some of them. Kind of a dory, but I think they have a lot more V in them. A North Carolina offshore design.

[Woody]

OK, I've aquired some plans for the hunky dory and the optional cabin plans by Glen-l. The hunky dory is a 23ft pacific dory with an 8ft beam. It can be stretched out to 25ft, so I figure why not.

I like the cabin on this one:

and the seats, fish box and engine layout on this one:


I have all sorts of great ideas for this boat (thanks Edsr and DriftR)

The plan so far;
Stretch the boat to 25ft

Increase the freeboard by 6in. from 2ft.8in to 3ft. 2in.

Construction materials will be doug fir marine plywood over white oak framing

"Encapsulate" the entire boat with epoxy non-fouling marine paint over that.

Glass the bottom and up the sides to the splash rails

Inboard 120hp Mercruiser with high output alternator and outdrive

50 gal fuel tank with area for 25-30 gal strap on cans for TUNA

Extra wide gunnels with non-slip coating around the cabin and on the bow.

Removable floor panels with non-slip coating.

Crab pot puller on the transom

Two insulated fish boxes (port and starboard) with fold-up passenger seats

Cabin with comfy high back buckets on swivels for me and my mate.

V-berth up front

Canvas top from the cabin to the transom.

Halogen lights for night running

GPS, sonar, and VHF radio

Raw water wash down pump

Two high output bilge pumps

Two batteries

PVC conduit built in to the construction of the boat for wire runs

Outriggers for TUNA handlines and stabilizers

Did I forget anything?

[Kruechief]

"Inboard 120hp Mercruiser with high output alternator and outdrive"

Woody,

Seems a little under powered???

How about a 165hp Mercruiser, not much gain in weight for much better push. [img]graemlins/idea.gif[/img]

My 20' Reinell had a 120hp in it and it was woefully under powered. Coming back from B10 one day bucking a out-going tide, I actually thought that we were doomed. :shocked:

Just a thought.

Krue (Loren)

[Woody]

Two reasons Krue.
One; flat bottomed boats, like dories, do really well on very little power. They sit so high in the water, and step up onto a plane so easily. Edsr seems to be satisfied with his 90hp outboard. I only have a 18hp on my little 16ft flat bottomed skiff and I pop right on plane and cruise at 25mph with 3 people in the boat.

Two; I can get one cheap!!! I found the engine, outdrive, steering and throttle cables, and instruments for $2000.

[Paddlefish]

Awright, you guys, knock it off!

The last thing I need right now is another boatbuilding project --- and this drool is wreaking havoc on my keyboard.

Woody: Kool!!

[corrirod]

Right on Woody, looks like fun!

[PIR8 Hook]

Hi Woody, Stick w/ the dory [img]graemlins/hearton.gif[/img] . I have been fishing in them since 1967. A word about the seaworthness from a National Geographic special that aired in the '60's: The old Grand banks boys had to chain them to the decks in storms so the fishermen would not abandon the schooner for their little dories!

I have had one since the early 70's. If there is an all-around-boat it's a dory! They ride high in rough seas, they are shallow draft to crab in the bays, they are fast enough to water ski,( mine does around 30 knots w/ an 88 johnson special that's 10 years old), (though it looks like something out of McCalle's Navy), high sided enough to be safe for the family and small kids. They trailer well, I've had mine to Hood's Port, WA several times. Yeah, they bang a bit on choppy seas......SO WHAT? Ya never been wet?? I'm sure not made of sugar and will melt in salt water are you? Concider taking to Terry Learnerd in Cloverdale, OR. He's the last wood dory builder in the world, (I think), and has been featured in Wooden Boat magazine. He may share some of his experience w/ you. Consider a fold up rag top for foul weather. That way you and work a rank ol' chinook all the way around the boat. If you want more info email me.

[CHUMSALMON]

Woody,
i just read this so i'm a little late on the response. I'm curently building a Headwater 16'dory designed by tracy o'brien out of chehalis wa.. I'm about half way done. I decided on a dory for all the same reasons you decided on yours. I hope the glen-l plans work out for you. I had orignally thought of building one of there boats, but the 16' from tracy o'brien could be built in my garage (and just barely at that) so that was my main factor. Though i'm already thinking of building another one (bigger of course, which will lead to a bigger shop too) Anyway, i wish i had more to add but everyone else has pointed out all the boats that i would have recomended looking at. I will say that tracy o'briens plans are very good, and he is very helpful if you ever have any questions. i see that you've already got one boat done, but if you have any questions on building the dory i may be of a little help. Good luck and keep us posted on the progress.
chumsalmon

p.s. There is also the wooden boat festival at port townsend sept. 5th-7th which should be a good show.

[Woody]

Hi CHUMSALMON,

My last boat was a 16ft dory style skiff from designed by Ken Swan in Hubbard, OR.

Here it is:



I wasn't even halfway through the construction of this one and I was already thinking about the next, bigger boat. It's very addicting. If I had my way, I'd start a boat and furniture building business.

Hmmmmm.... Woody's boats and custom woodworking, it does have a nice ring to it. :grin:

[CHUMSALMON]

woody,
you sure did a nice job on that boat! I hope mine turns out as nice. The boat/furniture shop would be a dream come true (more tools, bigger shop, bigger boats,..etc..etc..) I think i'm in the same boat as you, as soon as i started the dory i was looking at bigger boats to build in the future. I'll see how this dory turns out if i like it i may build an even bigger one, or there are the calkins bartenders which i truely love, then again tracy o'brien has a couple of other boats that look very inviting....decisions..decisions. All this boat building is going to start cutting into fishing time! One thing for sure though building a boat has been one of the most relaxing/satisfying things i've ever done and i'm sure i will continue to build more boats!
good stuff!
take care,
chumsalmon

[edsr]

Woody,
With an increase in the width and freeboard overall you will add some weight, additionally the cabin, berths, et.al. will add even more weight. I would think that you would get about the same performance with 120 hp that I am getting with 90 hp in a smaller boat.

I think you should re-assess the amount of fuel and scale-up to a min. of 75 gal and 100 gal would be even better. Lashing down cans is a fix. Why do that when you are starting from scratch and can design in the larger tank/tanks. Two tanks give you redundancy. Should one tank become fouled the other is still available.

Other considerations.
1.) Is it possible to increase the hp in the volvo by a high performance cam and other parts?

2.)Pacific dories were and are designed to synchronize with the pacific swell, or so I have been told and you rarely see one 25ft. because they may not handle our seas as well. I am not qualified to know if this is true - ask around.

3.) Trailering a boat that is over 8' oor is it 81/2' might require a special permit.

edsr

[Woody]

Thanks Ed,

Yet again, you have given me much to think about.

I will consider a bigger tank. I thought 50 would be plenty, except for those occasional long range trips. The rest of the time I would have to keep the tank topped of to prevent water problems in the tank. Two tanks would fix that though.

I'm sure there's a way to add HP to the 120 Mercruiser. It's really just a little 4 banger chevy block. We're going to go through the engine anyway.

I really need to do my homework before I commit to any major design changes. Very good point regarding the width issue and I didn't even consider the dory being sized for pacific swells.

[edsr]

Add some "Stabil" gas treatment every time you put gas in and you will have fewer troubles with stale fuel.

edsr

Woody,
Can I help you "Slime" it the first time :grin:

Keep us posted on the progress

[Woody]

Keta my friend, you are at the top of the list. I may be a hellova carpenter, but I still need somebody to show me how to catch fish. [img]graemlins/1zhelp.gif[/img]