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Old 10-28-2008, 01:55 PM   #1
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Default Good day snaking

Hey ya all, Lentz I went back again to the den sites and check out another area that Ive been wanting to check. It was 64 degrees at 1430 hours and no wind. The other den locations that I have shared with you in the last 2 post were pretty unproductive, one had a gopher snake sunning himself the other have one small juvinile rattler....yawn....., so I decided to go to another draw a ways over that had a very good area of cliffs and rim rocks in it. I should have snapped a pic for you but I wasent too hopfull. When I hiked over to I found multiple snake skins all aound the area. This area had a long network of small caves, cracks and crevices throughout about a 1/8 mile long. All were a southern exposure so I got pretty excited.



Found this juvy right off the bat by almost kneeling on him while I was trying to look back in a cave, thank God he had a 1 rattle as he did his job and alerted me as I was kneeling down......... wheeeeew..... Thanks buddy I let him be. Found another gopher snake also.



Snakes arent the only dangers lurking in the cliffs, thank goodness it was cold









As continued to look I found another one eye level in a hole but he was back in the rock and I wasnt able to hook it without hurting it so while I was trying to figure out how to get him out, he escape deeper into the cracks, another nice one missed. Soon after I was checking the base of the cliff network and there coiled in the leaves under a ledge was this one. I tonged him and got another photo opp.







Had a lot fun and learned more about snaking at den sites, ive been told by my farmer freinds that they have another farmer up the road that is supposed to have a big den on his property, they said I can get access to it. If I do ill share more pics with you all.

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Old 10-28-2008, 02:15 PM   #2
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Well..... not crazy but I know its a little differnt from most types of hunting. If it makes you feel better I purchased a pair of snake chaps last night at sportsman warehouse after the close call. I never handle them alive without my tongs or snake hook. But I like to collect some of the bigger ones for mounting purposes.

Here is a Western Diamondback from TX, I just finished for myself last week.





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Old 10-28-2008, 02:17 PM   #3
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Default Re: Good day snaking

Where was this? I thought they were in their dens for winter?
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Old 10-28-2008, 02:24 PM   #4
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Where was this? I thought they were in their dens for winter?
They are congragating at there den sites this time of year, and will den up soon when the temps stay low. Now they will still come out to sun themselves when the temps rise in the late morn to afternoon. On this day we found 6 in close proximity to each other. I usually let most go unless Im in need of some for projects. They do alot more good than bad IMO.
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Old 10-28-2008, 02:27 PM   #5
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Oh ya, its out side of pendleton in a secret spot, also you are more likly to run into one now while bird hunting than you would in the dead of summer. Most are actine at night in the summer when were in bed, but now they are active in the day when the temps rise enough to let them warm up.
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Old 10-28-2008, 02:27 PM   #6
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There are two different species in the photos posted. Can we have the correct names so I know what to call them beyond buzz worms etc....?

Thanks
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Old 10-28-2008, 02:31 PM   #7
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Almost forgot......

How do we identify areas that may have dens? How far from water and their normal summer habitat? I hunt chukars these days and need to know what to keep the dog away from.

Will night time temperatures down into the mid 20's or lower keep them underground even if it warms up during the day?

Thanks
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Old 10-28-2008, 02:31 PM   #8
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There are two different species in the photos posted. Can we have the correct names so I know what to call them beyond buzz worms etc....?

Thanks
Actually they are all the same as far as the ones that are alive, the first picture shows a small juvinile and the other 2 snakes posted are mature adults of the same species. They are a sub species of the Western rattlesnake called the Northern Pacfic rattlesnake

The picture of the one mounted is a Western Diamondback and are not found in Or.
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Old 10-28-2008, 02:33 PM   #9
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OHHHHHH great, LOL I just realized Lentz put a simalr post on site about our hunt, sorry but we can keep this one up if yopu have other questions. LOL
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Old 10-28-2008, 02:38 PM   #10
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Almost forgot......

How do we identify areas that may have dens? How far from water and their normal summer habitat? I hunt chukars these days and need to know what to keep the dog away from.

Will night time temperatures down into the mid 20's or lower keep them underground even if it warms up during the day?

Thanks
Areas this time of year can have den sites if its a southern exposure, they usually like rim rock cliffs because they need fissures to get well down below the frost line. Water is a key element becasue they cant afford to leave to far from there den to get it and risk getting trapped in low temps overnight, although they dont need to drink much or often. Low temps at night are what drive them to dens but they will still come out if the temps are warm enough to lure them out, when the temps stay low throuhout the day is when they stay in
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Old 10-28-2008, 03:17 PM   #11
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Very cool, didnt think there was any other snake people on this board. I have always loved to take pics of the ones I have found in the past but I havent been over that way when the weather was right in a long time. Hope you get to find the big den and get some shots of it.

Will
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Old 10-28-2008, 03:21 PM   #12
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Uplanders are all the rattlers in NE Oregon the Northern Pacific rattelsnake? Or are there other kinds around? I don't anything about them, but a fews years ago over on a spring bear hunt I was packing out a bear above the Imnaha River and was below a rock out cropping when my buddy almost stepped on one. After we started looking around, we realized there were a whole bunch of them in this concentrated area. Maybe sunning themselves in the sun after being in their den during the winter? Anyways just curious what kind they were? thanks
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Old 10-28-2008, 03:27 PM   #13
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we had one of those visitors in our driveway this afternoon. My dogs didn't take to kindly to the visitor. I helped him across the fence into our back pasture.
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Old 10-28-2008, 04:42 PM   #14
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Uplanders are all the rattlers in NE Oregon the Northern Pacific rattelsnake? Or are there other kinds around? I don't anything about them, but a fews years ago over on a spring bear hunt I was packing out a bear above the Imnaha River and was below a rock out cropping when my buddy almost stepped on one. After we started looking around, we realized there were a whole bunch of them in this concentrated area. Maybe sunning themselves in the sun after being in their den during the winter? Anyways just curious what kind they were? thanks

Hey there, yes up here near the Imnaha they would have been Northern Pacfics, the only other species we have in OR is another one of the 7 subspecies of the western rattler which is called the Great Basin Rattlesnake, this species will only be found in the lower SE part of OR near Burns and lower. mant people belive we have Western Diamond backs and Timber rattlers in OR, but its not the case. The Diamond Back is found in the Southwestern States and the Timber is in the South Eastern states and into Tx and up into Mid East states along with the Eastern Diamond back
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Old 10-29-2008, 05:01 AM   #15
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So what was that in the second photo? A wasp nest?
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Old 10-29-2008, 08:11 AM   #16
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How potent are N. pacific's venom? If you get bit a re you a goner?
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Old 10-29-2008, 09:17 AM   #17
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So what was that in the second photo? A wasp nest?
No, it was a honey comb. There are several honeys bees still there but not many. I have a picture that shows a couple on it.
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Old 10-29-2008, 09:34 AM   #18
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How potent are N. pacific's venom? If you get bit a re you a goner?
I couldent say where they stand in the exact line up in the rattlesnake species venom, but I do know this. They arent the most dangerous in toxicity. The most toxic North American rattler is the Mojave Rattler as it has both a hemotoxin (that effects the blood clotting mechanisms) which causes localized swelling and necrosis and can cause stroke and brain hemorraging at its worst in huge doses. The Mojave also contains a potent neurotoxin ( it effects nerve pathways**which can paralyzie your bodys functions and in the right dose or toxicty will shut your diaphram and intercostal muscles down so you suffocate. The NP just has a hemotoxin, and known in the world of herping to be one of the more shy and docile snakes that take much aggitation to strike as it would rather try to escape or go unnoticed. It is also reported to give up to 80% dry bites in self defence so as to not waste there venom which is needed to secure prey. Ironically the Western Diamond back is know to be the most dangerous rattler in North America, not because of its venom toxicity but because of its attitude/aggresivness and size upto 6-7 feet ( much venom) and its widespread areas that it is found in. I belive your are relativly safe with our NP's unless your screwing with them like me, and than you better know what your doing and have the correct tools to handle them, and dont get over confident like the crocidile hunter and start handling them, you will get bit.
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Old 10-29-2008, 11:29 AM   #19
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This is an interesting thread. I hope I'm not stepping on your toes by posting this picture but I wonder if you can ID this rattler for me. I took this picture just west of the Pueblo Mountains near Fields. Would this be a Great Basin rattler that you mentioned earlier?

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Old 10-29-2008, 04:08 PM   #20
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This is an interesting thread. I hope I'm not stepping on your toes by posting this picture but I wonder if you can ID this rattler for me. I took this picture just west of the Pueblo Mountains near Fields. Would this be a Great Basin rattler that you mentioned earlier?


Hey there, your not stepping on thread at all, glad you liked it. That is a Great Basin, they look a lot like a Prairie Rattler. I can tell you this that snake was getting ready to shed his skin in the next few days, you can tell because he is dull and not vivid looking. This is also a dangerous time to be near them as they get there occular sheilds hazed over so they are more prone to strike because they become blind untill they shed.
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Old 10-29-2008, 04:38 PM   #21
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Gives me the willies, but a great, informative post. Thank you.
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Old 10-29-2008, 04:59 PM   #22
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Hey there, your not stepping on thread at all, glad you liked it. That is a Great Basin, they look a lot like a Prairie Rattler. I can tell you this that snake was getting ready to shed his skin in the next few days, you can tell because he is dull and not vivid looking. This is also a dangerous time to be near them as they get there occular sheilds hazed over so they are more prone to strike because they become blind untill they shed.
I believe you about him being aggressive. I was driving along a dirt road and he buzzed at me as I drove past. Otherwise I never would have known he was there. Thanks for the info on the variety too. Good stuff to know.
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Old 10-29-2008, 05:56 PM   #23
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Cool post....

I almost stepped on a Western Cornback Rattler once, thank goodness I smelled him before he got me...

Keith
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Old 10-29-2008, 06:09 PM   #24
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Outstanding post! I learned a lot in the past few minutes ! ! Thanks! Nik
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Old 10-29-2008, 07:05 PM   #25
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Cool post....

I almost stepped on a Western Cornback Rattler once, thank goodness I smelled him before he got me...

Keith
Hi Keith, that must be a local name for ? species, ive never heard of a Cornback Rattler. Curious where you were when it happened. There is a Canebrake Rattler which was once thought to be its own species but has since been found to be one of three color phases of the Timber rattler, this is the one that has a prominete brownish line down the center of its back. There is a cornsnake but they are harmless unless your and rodent or chicken. I do know what you mean by smelling it, many people dont know this but most snakes including rattlers have another deterent and they spray a musk odor like a skunk to ward of enemys and also to aid in mating and leading themslves and there newborn back to the den that they well return to every year. I told lentz we were close to a den that day because I cold smell them, YUk!

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Old 10-29-2008, 07:20 PM   #26
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Here are some more pictures if your interested

Heres a Den


And another



Here is the type of area that you may find a den in



Here is another couple close ups. Of a little guy. They have the best looking skin for tanning purposes IMO.







More habitat there is a den at the base of this rim rock, notice a creek bottom just below it.

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Old 10-29-2008, 07:33 PM   #27
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Thanks for posting...very interesting. Regarding the honeycomb, wild honey is the best there is, in my opinion.
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Old 10-29-2008, 07:51 PM   #28
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Ya now that I know where its at I will be prepared to get it next time, I had left it alone since I didnt have any thing to put it in.
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Old 10-29-2008, 08:28 PM   #29
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As much as I detest snakes in general and poisoness one's in particular, there is some super photography here. Were you using a DSLR with a long lense or some kind of point and shoot with a zoom? Really really good photo's! I am afraid after taking their photo I would have to injure them,,,,,,,,permently.

Great thread tho!

Last edited by Don Fischer; 10-29-2008 at 08:29 PM.
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Old 10-29-2008, 08:29 PM   #30
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here are a couple pics of a northern pacific rattler I caught on the snake river near Huntington a few yrs ago. I figured I better move him away from our campsite because the guys were loading their guns



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Old 10-29-2008, 08:55 PM   #31
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here are a couple pics of a northern pacific rattler I caught on the snake river near Huntington a few yrs ago. I figured I better move him away from our campsite because the guys were loading their guns



Thats a nice one, pyhtonwill thanks for sharing
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Old 10-29-2008, 08:59 PM   #32
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As much as I detest snakes in general and poisoness one's in particular, there is some super photography here. Were you using a DSLR with a long lense or some kind of point and shoot with a zoom? Really really good photo's! I am afraid after taking their photo I would have to injure them,,,,,,,,permently.

Great thread tho!
LOL, no fancy equipment. Just me and my kodak 7.1 mgpixel. I was about 2-4 feet away but again they are a bit sluggish at 63 degrees and they werent wanting to strike. They sure could hone in on me with the heat pits though so I had to have Lentz stand infront of one so i could get a couple of side shots, they kept wanting to follow me straight on.
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Old 10-29-2008, 09:09 PM   #33
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Boy oh boy. Derrick must be a good friend!!!

Hey stand in front of this rattle sanake while I get a picture from the side......no a little closer ya thats better.
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Old 10-29-2008, 09:16 PM   #34
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Boy oh boy. Derrick must be a good friend!!!

Hey stand in front of this rattle sanake while I get a picture from the side......no a little closer ya thats better.

LOL, well I must say since he started he has become much more relaxed around them. At first he resembled a cat on a hot tin roof the way he would dance around, he looked like this without the smile LOL
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Old 10-29-2008, 09:21 PM   #35
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Hi Keith, that must be a local name for ? species, ive never heard of a Cornback Rattler. Curious where you were when it happened. There is a Canebrake Rattler which was once thought to be its own species but has since been found to be one of three color phases of the Timber rattler, this is the one that has a prominete brownish line down the center of its back. There is a cornsnake but they are harmless unless your and rodent or chicken. I do know what you mean by smelling it, many people dont know this but most snakes including rattlers have another deterent and they spray a musk odor like a skunk to ward of enemys and also to aid in mating and leading themslves and there newborn back to the den that they well return to every year. I told lentz we were close to a den that day because I cold smell them, YUk!
Another sign of a cornback rattler being close is the white tufts of paper laying around.... I should be able to get a picture of one shortly, hopefully by tomorrow...

Keith

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Old 10-29-2008, 09:29 PM   #36
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Another sign of a cornback rattler being close is the white tufts of paper laying around.... I should be able to get a picture of one shortly, hopefully by tomorrow...

Keith
LOL, the jokes on me, good one. Ive heard it called alot of stuff before but never that, BTW uhhhhhhhh, you can forget the picture. Thanks

Nevertheless all the other stuff I said was true in my first reply, so you gotta give me kudos for trying to identify it.
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Old 10-29-2008, 09:30 PM   #37
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LOL, the jokes on me, good one. Ive heard it called alot of stuff before but never that, BTW uhhhhhhhh, you can forget the picture. Thanks

Nevertheless all the other stuff I said was true in my first reply, so you gotta give me kudos for trying to identify it.
Glad you caught on because Google has some pretty good pictures of cornbacks.....

Keith
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Old 10-29-2008, 09:58 PM   #38
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LOL, well I must say since he started he has become much more relaxed around them. At first he resembled a cat on a hot tin roof the way he would dance around, he looked like this without the smile LOL
I wasn't that bad. Sure, just a little nervous...thats why i was holding the most important piece of snake hunting...the flash light.
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Old 10-30-2008, 09:04 AM   #39
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Very nice pictures and interesting post.

They are a beautiful critter.

Thanks,

DW
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Old 10-30-2008, 11:00 AM   #40
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freaking me out!!!!!!! Great pictures though.
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Old 10-30-2008, 11:19 AM   #41
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So would it be the NP rattler that inhabits the willamette valley by Eugene. My friend lives just north of Eugene and he has a bunch around his place that live under his shop. I have never examined them that closely, however they do look like the NP rattlers in your pictures, maybe another subspecies.

Thanks,

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Old 10-30-2008, 11:42 AM   #42
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Great thread,
really tickled to learn about the denning patterns. I have always loved to check out snakes, carefully. In Florida I have been known to stop the car and move big cottobmouths off the road to keep em from gettting squamped, I do not trust myself handling them. They are amazing snakes.

On snakebites: I was once camped near an older fellow and his son-in-law on the eastide, nice folks. It was a snaky spot and they told me they had killed three since arriving. Anyway...the younger guys mentions in passing that he got bit the day before ....eventually it registered in my head and I asked to see the bite....he had two neat fangholes on top of his foot. Said he felt funny for while but was fine.....I did point out to him that despite the fairly high rate of dry bites the profile of a person killed by a snake in this country is a guy about our ages who was drinking (we both had beers in our hands) and who failed to seek medical attention...

Great post and beautiful pics

WR
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Old 10-30-2008, 04:21 PM   #43
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So would it be the NP rattler that inhabits the willamette valley by Eugene. My friend lives just north of Eugene and he has a bunch around his place that live under his shop. I have never examined them that closely, however they do look like the NP rattlers in your pictures, maybe another subspecies.

Thanks,
Hi Bertram, yes they would be Northern Pacfics over there, the only place in OR you would find the other sub species of the Western Rattler ( which is the Great Basin ) would be in the lower SE corner of the state.
We have only the one species (two sub species in OR) out of the 40 species found in North America. In Or we have only 10 kinds of snakes and some have there subspecies (Garter Snakes have quite a few subspecies here in OR). In the Colibrid family we have
1 Garter snake
2 Ringneck Snake, poison to eat it
3 Racer
4 King Snake
(common King)
( California King) gtes confused with the venomous Coral snake
5 Night snake, most people dont know this but they are venomous but not classified as dangerous to humans cause they are rear fanged and to small to hurt you, plus there venom is mild. is often confused with a small gopher snake and not seen often
6 Striped Whipsnake
7 Gopher snake, always confused with a Bull snake not found in OR but a close relative and from the same genius
8 Sharptail snake
In the constricter group all we have is the
9 Rubber Boa

In the viper family, all we have is the
10 Western Rattler
( Northern Pacfic)
( Great Basin)

Here is a Gopher snake I mounted for my collection awhile back



Here is a NP checking out a female Valley Quail

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Old 10-30-2008, 04:26 PM   #44
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Default Re: Good day snaking

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Great thread,
really tickled to learn about the denning patterns. I have always loved to check out snakes, carefully. In Florida I have been known to stop the car and move big cottobmouths off the road to keep em from gettting squamped, I do not trust myself handling them. They are amazing snakes.

On snakebites: I was once camped near an older fellow and his son-in-law on the eastide, nice folks. It was a snaky spot and they told me they had killed three since arriving. Anyway...the younger guys mentions in passing that he got bit the day before ....eventually it registered in my head and I asked to see the bite....he had two neat fangholes on top of his foot. Said he felt funny for while but was fine.....I did point out to him that despite the fairly high rate of dry bites the profile of a person killed by a snake in this country is a guy about our ages who was drinking (we both had beers in our hands) and who failed to seek medical attention...

Great post and beautiful pics

WR
LOL, I thought I was of the only one out there that would chuck a snake in the bushes instead of running him over. Ive got a Cottonmouth and Eastern Diamondback coming from FL, and a Ratsnake and a 36" Copper head coming from AL that I bought, they should be here next week. I should be getting a Timber rattler later this year and maybe a Eastern King snake
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Old 11-02-2008, 02:09 PM   #45
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Default Re: Good day snaking

Outstanding thread Uplanders, very educational...thanks. But did you know you're a bit crazy too.
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Old 11-02-2008, 02:41 PM   #46
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GREAT READING
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Old 11-02-2008, 03:21 PM   #47
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Default Re: Good day snaking

Very cool!! Thanks for the info

I'm just glad Keith didn't post pics of that elusive cornback

-jokester
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Old 11-03-2008, 09:52 AM   #48
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Very cool!! Thanks for the info

I'm just glad Keith didn't post pics of that elusive cornback

-jokester
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Old 11-03-2008, 09:56 AM   #49
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Default Re: Good day snaking

My reply screwed up, anyways I work at a Firedept and had told some of the fellas about the Cornback snake, I havent heard the end of yet, LOL
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