Captain's meeting

Pilar · 07-14-2003, 01:16 PM

I've been thinking that maybe we should get together as captains before we run as a pack and talk about that days weather among other things.

Things like...

1) Boat teams. Two or three boats with similar capabilities that stick together all day long. No matter what you stay in radio contact and within visual all day long. Run out together, fish together, run in together.

2) Float plans. Decide as a boat team where you will run, departure time, duration on the fishing grounds and return time.

3) Ombudsman. One beachbound person or persons who check people in or out from the big salty. You give your float plans to the ombudsman. They do the worrying and calling for SAR if you do not report in.

4) Plan 'B'. We should decide as a group what to do instead of getting pounded if the weather goes away and we do not fish.

Any other ideas?

This meeting should be short and right before (if) we launch. I am open to ideas about location and format. I realize there are pressures to get in the water, wait in the launch line and whatever but we should work as a group for safety sake. My hope here is to restrain some of the complacency that plagues us more experienced guys and the inexperience that may harm some of the new guys.

Teamwork, before we go, on the water and after the trip.

Popeye · 07-14-2003, 01:27 PM

Pilar... [img]graemlins/applause.gif[/img] [img]graemlins/applause.gif[/img] [img]graemlins/applause.gif[/img] [img]graemlins/applause.gif[/img]

Fishplay · 07-14-2003, 01:35 PM

An idea with great merit John! [img]graemlins/applause.gif[/img]

Miss B Haven · 07-14-2003, 01:43 PM

Good idea Pilar.
Basically what we do on the dock the day or night before a run. If you do it the night before of course, you get to have an adult beverage (maybe 2!). Regroup again in the am to see if there's any changes (forecast, mech problems, missing crew, stowaways, etc) and go.

RJ · 07-14-2003, 01:47 PM

good Idea John

07-14-2003, 02:17 PM

skein · 07-14-2003, 02:18 PM

Great idea, but I'm trying to put the logistics together in my head.

Meet the night before?

Not everyone is there. Lots of trailer sailors drive down at 4am and queue up in the launch line.

Meet at the dock?

Again, it's tough when you're in line and getting stuff ready as the line moves forward. There's no place to gather up and chat, and once in the water, what are you going to do?

Discuss it on the radio?

That makes the most sense (IMHO) because the Dogs are most likely monitoring 78, and everyone can hear the plans for the day. We can also do the talk-talk while we're underway. Even the guys in the launch line can participate since they've all got a handheld for backup, right? (No stab intended if you don't - just leave your main radio on)

Boat teams?

THAT is a great idea. That one will take lots of trust in your running mates, but isn't that what we're talking about anyway?

All this is good - but only if we can make it happen. The devil is in the details.

Skein

CAPT KUJO · 07-14-2003, 02:22 PM

Pilar,
Great idea....count would love to have a "pack plan".

Keep us posted.

CAPT KUJO

Pilar · 07-14-2003, 02:23 PM

Skein, I think talking while we are underway blows the first part of the Captain's meeting.

Are we going out today and is the weather acceptable>?

If we are underway then this is a moot point.

We should meet before the line forms at the boat ramp. Teams could be decided any time before the trip. But the question is how to do that.

Any ideas?

Miss B Haven · 07-14-2003, 02:26 PM

skein- your right, the logistics are a lot tougher for the trailer sailors. When we're docked up together it's easy. We meet up with boats out Hammond (Hopefully some Ilwaco boats this year) and that's pretty easy too since we go right by. Get's tougher the more people you have too, makes sense to bust into smaller "attack squads" right?
What do you do if everybodies ready to go and one party isn't at the launch yet? :whazzup:
Skein- you have it toughest of all, don't even have a boat! :shocked:

skein · 07-14-2003, 02:39 PM

Quote: I think talking while we are underway blows the first part of the Captain's meeting.

Not necessarily. If it's obviously bad, then we're probably not going to launch at all. If it's questionable, then we've got the harbor or bay to queue up in while we discuss it. And if it's deteriorating or changing, we can discuss that enroute.

Quote:
What do you do if everybodies ready to go and one party isn't at the launch yet?

If that boat is in your "team" you wait until they get there or you hear from them. That's the trust (and the hard) part.

I'm just thinking out loud guys, but this is too good a concept to let "what-if's" clobber it.

Mel - I do too have a boat. Almost.

Weld, Ed, weld!

Skein

CrazyFish · 07-14-2003, 02:44 PM

How about a breakfast meeting

crabbait · 07-14-2003, 03:03 PM

This is going to take some thought...and committment. Boats that team together should be of very similar makeup so that "abort" plans are agreed to. You can inmagine how it would go if someone with a very seaworthy boat was willing and able to go and one of their team decided it was not flat enough. We don't want to browbeat someone into going who does not feel comfortable with the day and we don't wnat to insist that someone returns to port that believes they can and should continue.

Same with a mechanical scratch, late starter, sea sick turnaround.

Same with the "return to port" call. Say one team member has 25 fish and wants to head in and start carcin while a teammate has 7 and three on!

I am playing devils advocate, but I think it is a good idea. We may just need to stay flexible and roll with the punches.

The important part is that no one gets pressured in over their head, no gets left out alone (unless that is their choice), and no one is left unaccounted for. No USS Indianapolis for the 'Dogs!

Miss B Haven · 07-14-2003, 03:14 PM

"Boats that team together should be of very similar makeup so that "abort" plans are agreed to"

Well crabbait, I guess that leaves you out with the Warrenton, Hammond and Ill-wacco crowd. :depressed:

All tupperware, no beer cans in our fleet

Hmm gives me a thought if it was fiberglass... you could be saying "Lay Ed, Lay!" :grin:

crabbait · 07-14-2003, 03:45 PM

Lay Eddie lay,
Lay up my big glass boat!

Don't think that is what Dylan had in mind..... :tongue:

Sea Jypzee · 07-14-2003, 03:46 PM

I like the ideas presented here...I think creating teams is a great idea. But there are a lot of logistical problems as have been mentioned already.

Will need lots of talking and discussing the issues.

Phil Layer · 07-14-2003, 03:47 PM

Crab Bait,

How many shakedown runs will you need to make with your new boat before a run to tuna town is a reality?

Just curious.

ANDYCOHO · 07-14-2003, 04:09 PM

Good idea Pilar,

We could do like the Tournament Bass fisherman do, and meet before everybody starts dumping their boats in...

I like the plan of having a boat team or at least another boat buddie that you stick close too.

Good ideas, lets organize and put them into action!

crabbait · 07-14-2003, 05:02 PM

Phil - I want 10 hrs on the engine and no surprises from the rest of the gear.....and about a 10 boat escort and a very competent Bar Pilot and experienced tuna fanatic aboard. Pilar has volunteered if the day matches up with his schedule. Depends on what day of the week we get the boat. I have a slip at my disposal at Kalama for shakedown so 10 hrs should go pretty fast.

Have plans to fish botu Aug 8 & 9 for Halbies..er..Albuts? Ah heck, we'll catch something.

We need pictures of Skein's boat and mine together on the briney. Ed needs new website shots!

Miss B Haven · 07-14-2003, 05:19 PM

crabbait- I'd love to have you run with us on the 8th and 9th (those beer cans' make great sacrificial anodes for the tupperware fleet) but I'll be babysitting the Farm 2nd-11th. If you get a slip down there, I'll be looking for some weekday company to run with me after that. Planning on being down there as much as possible (home a day here and there when it's rough to do the chores?)about the 13th Aug through labor day. Vacation in the Blue! :grin:

[ 07-14-2003, 06:38 PM: Message edited by: Miss B Haven ]

crabbait · 07-14-2003, 06:21 PM

Amn you better be careful around those tin cans, Mel. Wouldn't want to bump a hole in your tupperware!

Don't know where we will fish on the 8th and 9th, probably out of Newport depending on my crew.

What am I saying, I don't have a boat yet!

KrystalFlash · 07-14-2003, 07:42 PM

Bravo Zulu Pilar!

I think this post is LONG OVERDUE.

The problem that I have run into is going out with a group and all of a sudden when we reach the fishing grounds....they're nowhere to be found. Occasionally before we reach the grounds. I think that it is vital that if you leave the dock as a group then you maintain radio contact at a minimum. That would also usually require you to maintain visual sight of your party as well. This could easily mean the difference between being rescued and not if the worst case scenario were to come about. The night before thing may not always be do-able but I think it is a great idea for the captains to get together and have a plan of the day. This may only be via phone or radio, but nonetheless I think it is important.

Above all.......NEVER LEAVE YOUR WINGMAN!!!!!!

Again, Bravo for bringing this up Pilar. I know you have had some of the same experiences as I. Some of them when I was with you, so I hear you loud and clear.

KF
Team DoubleGaynor
Team Brownpants
Catch and release Dolphin crew

irondog · 07-14-2003, 09:00 PM

Why not use this site as a meeting place the day before launch. Can coodinate efforts and safely
fish the plan.

Fishplay · 07-14-2003, 09:39 PM

Radio confirmation is also nice. I announced several hook ups and got no replys at all Saturday. It got to the point where I had to ask for a radio check. To which someone I didn't know replied "loud and clear".

Keeping a wingman in sight at all times would require allot of turning in an ocean like Saturdays. If your running mate got a hookup you would literally have to circle them. Not an easy thing with all that gear out. On top of that in those conditions I was trying at all costs not to run dirrectly into the slop.

I'm comfortable with knowing my wingman is in the vicinity but not necessarily in sight as long as we remain in radio contact.

Boat size and seaworthyness is not the only thing to consider when parring up. I consider my craft very seaworthy but my comfort level is obviously different than that of some of ye with smaller boats.

Me and my crew were discussing the troll back option Saturday prior to the Julie Rose III making it's departure announcement. When we followed suit the radio chatter was "were gonna be here all day" and "if you can fish in this you can fish in anything".

Also Puffin trolled away from the pod thinking everyone was doing the same. Poor communication left him holding his zuker and running by himself out of radio contact with the fleet.

This is a grand idea but teamwork will be needed to make it work. Talk the talk and walk the walk.

To be truthfull I didn't "feel the love" out there Saturday. It seemed like more of a competition to me. :depressed:

skein · 07-14-2003, 10:26 PM

Well said, Fishplay.

It's the glaze I mentioned in my post on the Reality Check thread. The glaze comes over ones eyes and all the plans and promises go out the window. That's the "Bad Guy" on our shoulder trying to talk us into the wrong decision.

The only defense is the realization that it's gonna happen, and the personal promise not to let it. Otherwise we're just a bunch of guys out on the ocean.

Skein

Fishplay · 07-14-2003, 11:35 PM

Skein, [img]graemlins/applause.gif[/img]

I just read your post over there and the rest of the newly added posts.

I'm doing my Ifish catch up after a busy weekend.

We are all subject to the "Bad Guy" influence. I think Pilars idea of making decissions as a team will prevent bad judgement from becoming tragic.

Lets walk the walk Dogs!

Pilar · 07-15-2003, 05:39 AM

It's not a new idea. 'Puffin' and I have been doing it since before Salty Dogs. As more and more jump on the wagon, teamwork becomes more difficult. What is required here is some of the esprit de corps that brought us together in the first place.

I don't think visual contact is paramount. But knowing your packmate has got your back and that he will not leave without you is.

Other good points brought up are radio discipline and cooperation vs. competition. My mate was talking about 3 legged communication on our recent rescue. It made the CG's job easier that all stayed calm and orders and info were repeated back for clear communication.

We should pick teams based on boat sameness, geographic proximity and as mentioned, experience and comfort level.

A mix of experience levels is the inevitable result of a diverse group like this one. Maybe we pair new guys with more experienced ones. I know some of you old salts don't want to drag a newby around but think about how you were all alone on the drink when you were just starting.

I will start a team thread.

Thank you all for speaking your minds. I've come to expect that of this group but I will never take it for granted.

wak'm&stak'm · 07-15-2003, 06:46 AM

Not bad idea...but it will be hard to pull off.

I have no issues running by myself like yesterday, and I have no issues saying I don't want to get beat up, and the rest of you go and have fun.

When there are ifish boats out there....I am right with them, and have enyoyed every trip with El shaddia, Sea Squid, Pilar, Puffin, Corirod, and the list goes on and on.

I made the wrong call Sat. and I should have known better. Before I went, I said that I don't care for July southerlies. In the past we have had big problems with a years July southerly. In 1978 there were 13 commercial went down because they were loaded with Tuna and the same weather patern exsisted. This was not as bad but it could have been.
About 10 years ago I was on a flat ocean (Halibut fishing off the lighthouse) and with little warning it started to blow, and to this day I don't think my Dad has been back out and my brother still talks about it. Trust me it was ugly. Take Saturday and multiple it by a factor of 3 and you get the idea.

My point is.........we all know our skill level, and our boats, and we all have a ounce of common sense........I think we need to be vocal, watch out for each other.....and maybe listen more...

Cheers...

OceanBlue · 07-15-2003, 07:14 AM

Yes, this is a great idea and not a new one. Yes, it might be difficult to implement, but we can do this IF:

1) The teams are committed to one another
2) There is clear and concise communication
3) The natural tendency to be competitive can be overcome.

Save the competitions for an ocean with ideal conditions, then team up with your buddy-boat to compete with other teams.

If Boat One has 15 and the Boat Two has 9 with 3 on when Boat One says giddyup let's go home, Boats One and Two need to discuss how that's going to happen. If the conditions are good, Boat One may decide to wait for Boat Two to fish one more pass. If the conditions are deteriorating, perhaps Boat One hauls in the last 3 that are on, then they sail. If there is a huge delta in the number of fish caught between the two boats, perhaps the two boats agree to combine and split the catch.

I also agree with Skein... that the best way to have a pack meeting is to launch, get clear of the ramp and either hang out in the harbor or cross the bar in teams and have a Pack Meeting on the drink. Yes, this means that some will be waiting, but this is where committment & communication comes in. If someone is running late, they need to notify their team mate and the team mate needs to wait for them. If they are unable to make it at all, they need to communicate to their team mate in enough time for the team mate to join another team.

Pack leader - in a large group, there should be a pack leader assigned.

We're committed to this sport, it shouldn't be hard to commit to eachother.

I will commit to being ombudsman any time I'm unable to joint he pack. Whether that means I'm on the beach or sitting at my desk at work.

SKSPAWNER · 07-15-2003, 07:24 AM

This is a great idea tha merits alot of thought and discussion. It time to walk the walk just like Fishplay said. The mutual enjoyment of what we do and pleasure we get from everyone having a great time on a successful trip should be more than enough to warrant this plan of Pilar's be at least tested. Thanks, John.

Sunny K