Good Bye, Freightliner.......

[TheRogue]

Freightliner leaves PDX..

TR

[Irish Pennant]

Some of our ifisher work there, I hope they can land on their feet.

[Eagleclaw]

sad news

[skein]

Just another example of American design and expertise heading to another country, in this case, Mexico. I wonder if the "white shirts" voted themselves a big bonus for orchastrating the move? Seems to be the fad.

Oh well, maybe one of these days we won't need the border patrol because all the good-paying jobs will be south of the border.

Skein

[OK Deal Let\'s Fish]

sad news indeed

More jobs moving out of the USA

[Smoked Salmon]

I imagine this would have been a more difficult move if the parent company was even remotely tied to this region. There might be a premium on jobs at companies that are entirely USA based and managed. That said, at least this news comes 8 months before the closure. There is time to locate a new position.

[Two Fister]

Start of production at the new Saltillo, Mexico, manufacturing plant will occur as planned in February 2009. The plant will produce Freightliner's new flagship Cascadia model.

Talk about adding insult to injury. The new flagship Cascadia model made in Mexico...

I guess we don't need to worry about the trade deficit any longer since we don't make much here anymore. As long as the Senior Management and Wall Street crowd can make a billion or two who gives a damn.

Two Fister, whose family worked in the steel and garment industries before they all went offshore

[30pound-tasty-fish]

Originally Posted by Two Fister

Talk about adding insult to injury. The new flagship Cascadia model made in Mexico...

No it's not

[69scout]

Freightliner are moving 2300 "White Collar" jobs to the East coast in SC.
And closing their offices here in Portland, OR.

[crazy_frog]

Originally Posted by 30pound-tasty-fish

No it's not

Care to support that statement?

[CATCH AND EAT]

Originally Posted by 69scout

Freightliner are moving 2300 "White Collar" jobs to the East coast in SC.
And closing their offices here in Portland, OR.

They will still have an office here. Just no plant. this stinks!!!!

Repeal NAFTA now!!!!

[yankemnbankem]

Freightliner.......not US Company... Diamler is German. Buy American Company and move it away from the USA. Nice.
We all want things more faster cheaper now and complain when companies seek out of Country mfg to keep their profits where they need to be and when they do we complain about our job loss..... Shame on us. Dont be afraid to spend a little more on "local" made products, then we have can have a right to be mad.

[Irish Pennant]

Originally Posted by CATCH AND EAT

Repeal NAFTA now!!!!

I'll second that and raise you a....

If you want to sell it here then build it here.


Irish Pennant, your friendly Independant Nationalist aka a member of the unrepresented.

[RascallyRabbit]

Worked there as a IT contractor until end of August. Moved to Orting to accept a Cival Service position with the Air National Guard on McChord Air Force Base. Is starting to look like one of the best decisions of my life.

Good luck to those that are still there.

Steve/RR

[TheRogue]

My buddy will have 21 years in with the company when they move. They have quite a few folks with 20-ish years in....and I believe they can take early retirement starting at 25 years. Wonder if that has any weight in this?

Be interesting to see if he's offered a position back east, and if he takes it.

TR

[30pound-tasty-fish]

Originally Posted by crazy_frog

Care to support that statement?

Anyone can find out where the Cascadia is built. It isnt Mexico.

[uhmw]

It will also toast some smaller local companys that grew up doing business with them.

[maniacmikey]

Some of were talking at work that we may be the first generation to be able to tell our kids we remember when we use to build cars in America.

[Smoked Salmon]

Originally Posted by 30pound-tasty-fish

Anyone can find out where the Cascadia is built. It isnt Mexico.

I think you have the advantage here. The article says Mexico, so after exhausting that source, where would you suggest we look?

[crazy_frog]

Well it may not be Mexico right now but it will be shortly.

http://www.forbes.com/prnewswire/fee...__NY38649.html

Personally, I would rather see those trucks built out at Swain Island. I have a buddy that lost his job from there about a year ago when they started their process to move to Mexico. We need manufacturing jobs in the US. It's a good foundation for our economy.

[adobe wall]

It's made in NC, and will also be made in Mexico.

There are a lot of us sweating the decisions that will be made in the coming months. I have a lot of friends that learned today their jobs are moving to Mexico. Simple fact of life that every area must compete to keep jobs. The jobs that don't go to Mexico may end up in SC. The state of Oregon has done some remarkably bone headed things to Daimler (formerly Freightliner).

When politicians say "tax breaks for big companies" they are often opposing, or taking heat for, the same tax breaks that keep businesses from relocating and keep good paying jobs local and bring in income taxes.

The truck plant employees are getting notice of what will happen in 20 months. White collar workers will get less notice but right now it's all happening via a voluntary severance. Not a great situation at all but it could be worse. The iFishers I know that work at the plant are all top notch folks that will find something before the end but they're also very good friends and that is still going to cause a lot of concern in the interim.

regards, aw

[drhall99]

The sad thing is that while the American consumers says "Buy USA" they really "Buy whoever is cheapest". I speak from experience. We sell a lot of appliances, household stuff, etc. and our last US manufacturer, ARY Inc. (They make VacMaster Vacuum Sealers) just moved their production from the US to China in August/September of this year in order to be able to compete in the US market. Too many people were opting for to buy the cheaper, imported sealers from their competition instead of the the more expensive US Made ones VacMaster used to make.
If we all practiced "Buy USA", there wouldn't be any "Made In China". Too late for that now... There isn't any "Made In the USA" left to buy to speak of. Ironically, Mexico has lost thousands of jobs to China as well..

[PGJPJ]

My wife and I were going to start on a second child. Now we just don't know, do you put life on hold while you wait for the news? I guess we'll know in a few months if we are going to be in for some hard times or not. Either way, we're all hurting at Daimler.

Some folks have had a long career here in Portland with Daimler. I don’t see that happening to me. I think the writings on the walls for headquarters.

[matttheduck]

the same tax breaks that keep businesses from relocating and keep good paying jobs local and bring in income taxes.

This is one of the most insightful comments posted on Ifish in recent months. It is the cost of doing business - driven higher in large part by government decisions - that is moving these jobs away. It makes me sick to lose these jobs, but in a couple of weeks Oregonians - including some of these folks who will lose their jobs - are going to re-elect a bunch of the people who made it happen.

Let's not forget, however, that the jobs flow both ways. Toyotas are manufactured in the U.S. - but they are made in low-cost areas. Oregon is becoming impossible for manufacturers - the only ones that will be able to survive will be highly subsidized by the taxpayers - windmills and other "sustainable (only with taxpayer money)" firms.

[Silver Hilton]

Originally Posted by 30pound-tasty-fish

Anyone can find out where the Cascadia is built. It isnt Mexico.

The article in the first post says, "Start of production at the new Saltillo, Mexico, manufacturing plant will occur as planned in February 2009. The plant will produce Freightliner's new flagship Cascadia model."

[Silver Hilton]

Originally Posted by Irish Pennant

I'll second that and raise you a....

If you want to sell it here then build it here.

How many jobs does Intel have here? Where do they sell their chips? Globalism is here to stay.

[Irish Pennant]

Originally Posted by Silver Hilton

How many jobs does Intel have here? Where do they sell their chips? Globalism is here to stay.

Intel started in the USA and still manufactures many of their products in the USA and sells that product globally. That's how it should be. Maybe if more would follow Intel's lead we wouldn't be in the mess we are in.

How many printers does HP build in the USA?
How many Wiggle Warts does Lure Jensen build in the USA?
How many coats does Columbia Sportswear build in the USA?
Now you can put Freightliner on that list

All these companies had local people working for them earning a living wage and had local vendors supplying them. It's gone and it's a shame. You can call it globalism, I call it something else.

The few companies that are left gets my money when ever there's a purchase for their product line. Companies like, Leupold & Stevens, Danner Boots, Leatherman, Kershaw, Gerber, Benchmade and Intel. The companies that have moved out will not get a dime of my money. I would rather buy a product from a foreign company than an American company that has moved off shore.

[Jaws]

Originally Posted by Irish Pennant

Intel started in the USA and still manufactures many of their products in the USA and sells that product globally. That's how it should be. Maybe if more would follow Intel's lead we wouldn't be in the mess we are in.

How many printers does HP build in the USA?
How many Wiggle Warts does Lure Jensen build in the USA?
How many coats does Columbia Sportswear build in the USA?
Now you can put Freightliner on that list

All these companies had local people working for them earning a living wage and had local vendors supplying them. It's gone and it's a shame. You can call it globalism, I call it something else.

Don't forget the big one.....Nike!

[backlash442]

"The few companies that are left gets my money when ever there's a purchase for their product line. Companies like, Leupold & Stevens, Danner Boots, Leatherman, Kershaw, Gerber, Benchmade and Intel. The companies that have moved out will not get a dime of my money. I would rather buy a product from a foreign company than an American company that has moved off shore."

Your last sentence is easier said than done. As an example what about your credit cards? Have any idea where those people you talk to are located? I know Citi uses India. American Express Insurance is the same thing. Drives me nuts trying to understand a Hindi accent and I actually have a pretty good ear for non native english speakers having lived abroad for 11+ years and another 20+ in So. Cal.

Detroit Diesel is also owned by Daimler which uses those engines in Freightliner.

Chevy Suburbans have been built in Mexico for well over a decade. My 96 was. Unless they are now built in China. Yeah it's true, Mexico has lost a lot of jobs to the Chinese. Safe to say they don't like the Chinese as I know people who do business with both and there is open animosity with the Mexicans towards Chinese.

My point is that this is nothing new. Unfortunately it's the world we live in today and will almost certainly continue. I feel bad for the people affected. It's not easy going out to look for work in this enviornment. Maybe what the governent should due to stop the export of jobs is to heavily tax the product that is made overseas and imported back into the US. Although I can see how that would create problems of its own. After all we live in a capitalistic society and the object is to make money not lose it.

[TheRogue]

After all we live in a capitalistic society and the object is to make money not lose it

Well, maybe that's the way it used to work. Now, it's make as much money as inhumanly possible today, and don't give a damn about tomorrow.

Since the stockmarket has become an "I want it all today" monster, publicly traded corporations are operated that way. Remember when we as a country planned ahead? Not anymore, it's about the market does tomorrow that drives everything today.

Sad.

[backlash442]

Originally Posted by TheRogue

Well, maybe that's the way it used to work. Now, it's make as much money as inhumanly possible today, and don't give a damn about tomorrow.

Since the stockmarket has become an "I want it all today" monster, publicly traded corporations are operated that way. Remember when we as a country planned ahead? Not anymore, it's about the market does tomorrow that drives everything today.

Sad.

No it's still the way it works today. Even your employer is not in the business of losing money and I bet they do care about tomorrow.

[Shark Bait]

Originally Posted by Irish Pennant

The few companies that are left gets my money when ever there's a purchase for their product line. Companies like, Leupold & Stevens, Danner Boots, Leatherman, Kershaw, Gerber, Benchmade and Intel. The companies that have moved out will not get a dime of my money. I would rather buy a product from a foreign company than an American company that has moved off shore.

Not to rain on your parade, but only a handful of Danner's boots are made in the USA.

Thankfully the pair that I am wearing as I type this are still made here.

[Smoked Salmon]

I believe that there is still a boot maker in Scappoose who makes a very excellent product.

[Irish Pennant]

Originally Posted by Shark Bait

Not to rain on your parade, but only a handful of Danner's boots are made in the USA.

Thankfully the pair that I am wearing as I type this are still made here.

I wasn't real sure as to what percentage of Danner boots were still made here but I do know that they still do make some here and the people that work there are glad for it. I will buy the boots that have the Made In America label.

[MrOlearhy]

Unfortunately it's not only companies that have been acting this way. Local people have too. In the last 3 years people have been spending 1.01 for every dollar they make on average. We as a society have spent ourselves into a deep hole that we are now reaping. I just hope we wake up before we (this country) is reduced to a third world country.

[Chrome Bumper]

Originally Posted by Smoked Salmon

I believe that there is still a boot maker in Scappoose who makes a very excellent product.

West coast shoes, order early as they are custom made. They overhaul them when you wear them out.

We should use the idled Frteigtliner capacity making something else, like electric cars, wind machines or solar panels.

[Smoked Salmon]

Well, there was a chip manufacturer that dumped plans on a $500 million factory here in Oregon. A solar panel manufacturer bought the place for 20 cents on the dollar, pumped in another $400 million, and is hiring folks from all over the country to build the things.

So, definitely an option, but what to build? ???

How about wind turbines? Those are (to the best of my knowledge) made in Denmark now and shipped through the Great Lakes before getting planted in the West and Plains states. Saw a handful of them being transported on the I-94 this summer, looked like a truckers nightmare. We have steelmills, so raw material shouldn't be a problem. Who do we call to make it happen?

[adobe wall]

Somewhat of a silver lining out of this....a guy I work with is taking the voluntary severance. He'll get a pension (he's old enough), paid insurance until he is medicare elgible (he's earned it), and a check for 70 months worth of pay.

Right now in my work group there are a handful of people looking at the voluntary severance package really hard, 2 that are confirmed to have taken it, and a few more that probably will. If things work the same way they did a few years ago there won't be any involuntary terminations- except at the truck plant.

30-pound-tastyfish will end up somewhere good, in or out of the company. Perfect world my fishing buddies from the truck plant will find a spot to stay here. They are all good folks with a load of talent.

Then there is what looms on the horizon a couple of years from now. Any reprieve is only temporary, most of us see the writing on the wall that all the corporate jobs will move east. Right now I'm living like my time here is limited, trying to soak in as much of the northwest as possible. If (when) more jobs get moved, it's highly probably that either myself or my wife will be impacted. We both like our jobs, so we'll go. I'm fluent in the dialect as well.

regards, aw

[Irish Pennant]

Originally Posted by adobe wall

I'm fluent in the dialect as well.

regards, aw

Dave,
We'll have to put in a few more fishing trips before you get sent back east. Maybe you can show me how to catch some of those land lock pink tuna.

[30pound-tasty-fish]

Behold the lilies of the field, they neither toil nor sow; yet God does all things needful yield that they may live and grow.

Heavy.

[Straydog]

Originally Posted by Irish Pennant

The few companies that are left gets my money when ever there's a purchase for their product line. Companies like, Leupold & Stevens, Danner Boots, Leatherman, Kershaw, Gerber, Benchmade and Intel. The companies that have moved out will not get a dime of my money. I would rather buy a product from a foreign company than an American company that has moved off shore.

With the exception of maybe Leatherman, all of the companies you list above import a portion of their product line from overseas.

Reality bites.......

[BigWaterBigFish]

I am very disturbed by the fact that the Western Star line, used in our military, might be build in Mexico ... getting taxpayer dollars on trucks made in Mexico, for specific reason of cheaper labor.

[luv_2_fish]

I know many people that work..(ed) at Freightliner. The jobs that they have had here were their life line, their hopes, their success, their dreams about America. Not only that, the wages that they made here supported many people in USA as well as their relatives in less fortunate countries. GONE.... GONE....

NAFTA... What good has it done for the ordinary joes and janes?

It was intended to ship away the low paying jobs and to retrain the work force here with better higher paying jobs. Well, even the high paying jobs in high tech industries are being outsourced.

Soon, the migrant workers will go back to their countries, because they have better opportuinities and better social condition there. The people here will be rewarded with .... low paying jobs!

When I was younger in my 20's, it seemed if you have a college degree, you would be better off...I am not so sure nowday, what can a college degree buy? So many people have lost their jobs, lost their homes, lost their dreams.

HAVE WE GIVEN AWAY OUR LAND OF OPPORTUNITIES?

[mike5097]

I wonder if the fact that AG Hardy Meyers and the state of Oregon were suing Freightliner for 200 million plus had anything to do with the decision to leave?

"A $210 million lawsuit filed against Freightliner by Oregon Attorney General Hardy Myers has been a factor

in the company's recent deliberations, Patterson said.
"It would be disingenuous to characterize that as a decisive factor," Patterson said. "However, it was
opportune. We're disappointed that our home state has taken this aggressive posture. It was a a bitter
disappointment to the people of Freightliner."
The German truck manufacturer Man AG won an $850 million judgment against Freightliner in Multnomah
County last December. The case originated from a transaction dispute in the United Kingdom. The
judgment included roughly $500 in economic damages as well as $350 million in punitive damages.
Under Oregon law, the state is entitled to 60 percent of the punitive damages in any lawsuit, or $210 million
of the judgment against Freightliner. The money is earmarked to benefit crime victims.
Before the state could collect the money, Freightliner settled the case with Man outside of court. The
settlement included dropping the punitive damages portion of the jury award.
Because the state did not consent to the deal, Myers claims Freightliner owes Oregon $210 million. He filed
suit in Marion County in August seeking that amount.
In October, Cogen, Wheeler and Potter went to bat for the truck manufacturer, sending a letter to Myers
and asking him to forgo collection of the judgment.
They argued the dispute originated in Europe and did not harm any Oregonians. Therefore, the state's not

entitled to the cash."

[crazy_frog]

We need leaders that are going to enact policy that keeps companies in America. That may mean lowering taxes for business or taxing products that we import or some of both, but we need to make it profitable for business to stay in the states. Freightliner was a company that paid a decent wage from what I hear, and it's a shame to see them go. Hopefully someone will come in and take their place. However, the trend is for higher paying manufacturing jobs to be replaced with service industry work.

[crazy_frog]

The Portland Business Journal...
http://www.bizjournals.com/portland/...08/story1.html
Oct 5, 2007

[Chromaflage]

Thankfully, it looks like I may be able to re-employ one soon to be ex-freightliner employee.

[Lurp]

This whole thing started in the 60's when the big three started having their intake & exhaust manifolds cast in Mexico
Slowly other companies saw the advantage and followed
Then we had NAFTA and the whole thing exploded along with our economy

What I want to know is what are these companies going to do when most jobs in this country are non-union minimum wage?

Who is going to buy their $20,000 cars? (not the guy in mexico making $5.00 an hour)

Henry Ford once said he paid his people a good wage so they would buy his cars and keep him in buisness
It's to bad the idiots running these big companies can't see this
All they want is short term profit and hope when the end comes they will be sitting on the Riviera with their golden parachute

MICHAEL BEAMER

Also if you shop at walmart don't complain!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Straydog]

I heard the CEO of Freightliner on the radio on Tuesday and he said this has nothing to do with their decision, although they obviously didn't like this happening.

He also said the union folks met with him and asked what they might be able to do in terms of asking for reduced wages or benefits, and he said he had to tell them that even if they worked for free, they could not be competitive and stay in Portland.

The cost of bringing materials in and shipping finished products out to where the majority of the customers are, was too much.

Part of this is due to the decline in manufacturing jobs in Oregon. Most of the manufacturing is gone so the demand for their product has shifted.

Originally Posted by mike5097

I wonder if the fact that AG Hardy Meyers and the state of Oregon were suing Freightliner for 200 million plus had anything to do with the decision to leave?

"A $210 million lawsuit filed against Freightliner by Oregon Attorney General Hardy Myers has been a factor

in the company's recent deliberations, Patterson said.
"It would be disingenuous to characterize that as a decisive factor," Patterson said. "However, it was
opportune. We're disappointed that our home state has taken this aggressive posture. It was a a bitter
disappointment to the people of Freightliner."
The German truck manufacturer Man AG won an $850 million judgment against Freightliner in Multnomah
County last December. The case originated from a transaction dispute in the United Kingdom. The
judgment included roughly $500 in economic damages as well as $350 million in punitive damages.
Under Oregon law, the state is entitled to 60 percent of the punitive damages in any lawsuit, or $210 million
of the judgment against Freightliner. The money is earmarked to benefit crime victims.
Before the state could collect the money, Freightliner settled the case with Man outside of court. The
settlement included dropping the punitive damages portion of the jury award.
Because the state did not consent to the deal, Myers claims Freightliner owes Oregon $210 million. He filed
suit in Marion County in August seeking that amount.
In October, Cogen, Wheeler and Potter went to bat for the truck manufacturer, sending a letter to Myers
and asking him to forgo collection of the judgment.
They argued the dispute originated in Europe and did not harm any Oregonians. Therefore, the state's not

entitled to the cash."

[RascallyRabbit]

Originally Posted by mike5097

I wonder if the fact that AG Hardy Meyers and the state of Oregon were suing Freightliner for 200 million plus had anything to do with the decision to leave?

From watercooler talk before I left at the end of August, I believe that it would have happened no matter what. But I also believe that the lawsuit expedited it by 3 to 5 years.

Steve/RR

[Jimfisher]

very sad indeed

[Cliff D.]

Originally Posted by Lurp

This whole thing started in the 60's when the big three started having their intake & exhaust manifolds cast in Mexico
Slowly other companies saw the advantage and followed
Then we had NAFTA and the whole thing exploded along with our economy

What I want to know is what are these companies going to do when most jobs in this country are non-union minimum wage?

Who is going to buy their $20,000 cars? (not the guy in mexico making $5.00 an hour)

Henry Ford once said he paid his people a good wage so they would buy his cars and keep him in buisness
It's to bad the idiots running these big companies can't see this
All they want is short term profit and hope when the end comes they will be sitting on the Riviera with their golden parachute

MICHAEL BEAMER

Also if you shop at walmart don't complain!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

If you shop at Wal-mart don't complain, AMEN !!

[adobe wall]

Originally Posted by BigWaterBigFish

I am very disturbed by the fact that the Western Star line, used in our military, might be build in Mexico ... getting taxpayer dollars on trucks made in Mexico, for specific reason of cheaper labor.

The military M915A3 is a Freightliner FLD model dating to the late 1970's. There was some work being done to transition the cab of the truck to the same steel cab used in the WST. With the relocation of the Western Star to Mexico, the military production goes to one of the Carolinas plants.

Many WST parts come in from Canada. Ironically the brand itself is a Canadian brand purchased ~5yrs ago so the same (moving south) complaints were being thrown about by our northern neighbors a few years ago. As stated, the Portland plant was suffering from the cost of bringing materials (frame rails) up from Mexico and cab parts down from British Columbia. With the move of production to Mexico, this hurts our local economy and also will further impact many Canadian suppliers. Those parts will go to Mexican suppliers.

What Rascally Rabbit said about the lawsuit is spot on. It wasn't the sole reason at all but it contributed to the general lack of ability of the company to work here. You can shear a sheep many times but only skin it once. There is also the intangible "unfriendly to business" perception by many that Oregon has managed to cultivate. The simple fact of life is that Oregon is competing against the rest of the world to keep jobs.

regards, aw

[freespool]

This is really sad news for the workers who are now going to be displaced.
So the $6.8 million tax break wasn't enough incentive to stay in Portland?
Perhaps in the future when the city considers corperate welfare issues, they should set a time table for staying, if you move on in less than ten years, then you need to pay the money back.

[crazy_frog]

http://www.portlandtribune.com/news/...09611142805800

This came out in the Portland Tribune on Oct. 15, 2008. It sheds a little light on the fight going on.

It looks to me that the city was advocating upon Feightliners behalf in an attempt to keep the company here.

[PGJPJ]

while at the same time the state has tried to come after us like a bunch of ambulance chasers...


"For the past two years, the state of Oregon has continued to pursue a $210 million legal claim against Freightliner’s parent company, Daimler Trucks North America, despite concerns expressed by Portland and Multnomah County officials that the suit could force the manufacturer out of town.:

[Mark Mc]

Since the topic of "made in USA" has come up again.....


http://www.stillmadeinusa.com/index.html

[fishboys]

At one time I was employed by this company. I was a journeyman making journeyman wages when I got laid off the last time. The company has to call back people from the seniority list.

A couple years go by and I get the call back to work at Freightliner. The same job I was laid off from making 22.05 an hour I think it was with the added foreman's pay. I asked them what wage I would be hired back at, they told me 12.00 an hour plus I would have to pay for my portion of the medical benefits that we didn't have to pay prior to me getting laid off.

I told them they must be mistaken because I had been there a total of 6 or 7 years and it only takes four years to became a journeyman to make the full pay rate. They said nope thats what you will be paid.


So I called my union rep to tell him of this mistake. He then dropped a bomb on me, he told me my union brothers at the last contract voted to let this pay decrease happen to anyone who wasn't working there at the time, so it was used as a bargaining tool. So even though we paid our dues with blood sweat and time and were on the call back we would only be making about 10.50 before taxes after paying union dues and the extra medical payment.

I have some great friends that I've met there and I loved my job but some of us sure got the short end of the stick, now everyone else is getting the short end.

To anyone that is effected by this I am truly sorry and I hope you get something even better then what you had. I know I did.

[PRINCEMASTER]

As with the auto factories and such again we can thank NAFTA for all that has happened