Charter Boats and Professionalism?

[Born to be Wild]

Here is a quote of mine off the Tillamook Forest thread:

The charters were whining on the radio yesterday that they were averaging 8-10 wild ones for every hatchery fish.

I was out fishing with love2fish and Martin85 yesterday and we heard one charter boat being critical of another charter boat’s deckhand on the handling of wild coho and the other boat came back and said; as far as I’m concerned, kill ‘em all and then I don’t have to catch them again.

Heard by me and the other ifisher’s on VHF channel 80.

Today and probably every day the sports fishermen are bringing in wild coho with adipose fins on them with the most common excuse according to the trooper I talked with a little while ago being; they thought it was a Chinook.

The sports fishermen are being very destructive to the wild coho that we are trying to rebuild and you are supposed to release unharmed.

<font size="2" face="verdana,arial,helv">Now can anyone explain this behavior amongst the charter boat fleet?

I mean come on, it’s not just me seeing what is going on. That’s why I finally brought it up at the ODFW meeting in February!

I have experienced the unfortunate pleasure of meeting and hearing some of the charter boat captains from Newport at meetings in the past and some of them are, well, it's sad. Unbelevable.

I hope some of the captains are different than them and a little savvier on what is going on. Charter captains must realize there is a difference between a wild and hatchery fish. Ifisher’s overwhelmingly know!

I have done business with most of these guys over the years, but enough is enough!

Blatantly disrespecting our wild stocks and biologist is no longer acceptable to me!

I don’t get it. Just because they know how to catch salmon makes them experts on salmon biology?

I’m tired of this and want to change it.

I predicted and showed a pic of a money hungry charter back in February of this year on ifish showing it was an accident waiting to happen!

And unfortunately a while back, it happened in Garibaldi.

Charter captains are suppose to be professionals, but I don't consider some of there actions professional.

If you are going to blatantly kill wild coho (which the commercials don’t do), disregard closed bars, take folks for a rough ride knowing that most of them will get sick in adverse conditions, then why do they do it?

Dockside Charters in Depoe Bay are the only ones that I am familiar with that believe in conservation and safe travels. They cancel there trips and refund the money when the ocean is rough and then go down to "chicken point" to watch the rest.

They deserve credit for this.

Dan

[ 07-12-2003, 03:07 PM: Message edited by: DepoeBayDan ]

[Born to be Wild]

A very lucky charter fishremen got away with this one yesterday!



He was two short of a limit and I guess this one added to the catch?

I didn't express my opinion of it even though the trooper that knew me seemed interested, untill after he had made his decision. This is one that I would have not kept.

Anyway, a warning not to take for granite.

Dan

[fishing is life]

Dan, thanks for keeping this issue on the front burner. I think we should all insist charters handle unclipped fish properly. Tell any novices too that if they see that type of behavior that they should either say something right then or just wait till you get home and call the charter and tell them you will never take a trip with them because of the way they disrespected our resource. Then maybe some of the bad ones will either change or just go away. We all need to do our part, dont just stay silent.

[Lepper]

About that partical clip.. I caught one like that so I let it go. Talked with the fish counting lady and she said that as long as you can tell that it has been clipped and it is HEALED then it is legal.. she also said, that grade school kids do the clipping and what do you expect??
d

[WP]

I have found that the only effective way to make a difference is to talk with your pocket book! Do not do business with those that violate your sense of right and wrong or who do not provide the service you expect. It won't change them quickly but it will change them...or they will be replaced in the economic food chain. The customer has the power...not the service provider. I am glad to know that Dockside behaves ethically and in a sound manner...they are on my recommend list now....along with those I know from personal experience.
WP...sad to hear about these behaviors and choosing to contribute to there solution!

[Sea Jypzee]

Dan - What boat was it that had that fish? I think making this behavior public is a good incentive to them to NOT do it again!! If they know we're watching them, they will hopefully be more cautious.

WP - I'm curious, never saw or heard a report from you yesterday after you headed in. What was your final fish count on the tuna grounds?

[Mark Mc]

Dan, a vision is appearing and it goes something like this:

A guy pays the fare to go on certain charter boat. Guy has video camera and innocently takes footage of the day's activities, like a typical tourist would. Oh, guy dresses like a dork and acts like a greenhorn. Guy gets footage of crew ripping the gills out of coho while dumping overboard. Video mysteriously shows up at ODFW office, or better yet at ODFW Commission meeting.

I guess the question is, do you / I / we act like "brave men" and give them fair warning first? Or will we just be told to shove it?

edit / p.s. - WP, I agree totally about voting with the wallet, and recommending the "preferred" boats. However, assuming that the "coho thrasher" boat(s) work out of a shop, that shop just keeps getting calls from first timers, or unsuspecting folks that are just getting put on a boat without any knowledge of the skipper / crew & their habits. Any ideas here? Is it time for an article in the Oregonian?

[ 07-11-2003, 10:06 PM: Message edited by: Mark Mc ]

[Born to be Wild]

Well, I've posted this before and don't want to annoy Bill Monroe.

But this is an article or column he did in the Oregonian a year ago or so and apparently even though I brought this up at the ODFW meeting along with lost_sailors post at the time, it has had some effect on the charters, but the rest still think they are above us and we are a bunch of dim wits.

Jeers: An alarming number of charter skippers and crews have been boating coho with adipose fins and, in some cases, tossing them aside on the deck to handle keepers first, before tossing them back overboard after way too much handling.

Wild coho should be released in the water, without even being netted. A simple tool consisting of a coat hangar wire with a hook at the end stuck into a pole, can catch the barbless hook in the fish's mouth, work down the shank to the bend and carefully pull it free without much damage.

Biologists already have heard reports from many customers and recently made a special point of talking to charter owners through their associations.
If it gets too bad, maybe none of us will have to worry about it.
...We won't be invited back on the water.

<font size="2" face="verdana,arial,helv">Lost_Sailor's post was almost identical, but worse.

As I have said, I've had enough!

There are some good ones out there, but the majority are complacement in thinking that they are (God) the experts and know it all when in fact they are very much ignorant about fish biology.

Very ignorant! They need to read through ifish archives.

Can't believe what I heard on the radio last week with love2fish.

I held his mike for several minutes and almost blasted away!

I know it just isn't Depoe Bay! It's Newport also!

Charleston, I doubt it. Bill is a class act and doesn't seem like the guy to mock science or mistreat wild fish.

Garibaldi? Who knows? These are the guys that are so hungry that they got to cross the bar in 12-15' swells.

I will post some interesting pic's of charters crossing the bars! Wish I had a way of posting the many video's I have shot over the years.

Dan

[ 07-12-2003, 11:05 AM: Message edited by: DepoeBayDan ]

[WP]

Sea Jypzee,
I ended with 23...my ice ran out so my fishing did too! I tried to call you several times and finally broadcast that we were leaving. You must have been having too much fun! I don't like to leave without letting someone know and the other boats I was fishing with had already returned...sorry for the abandonment!
Hope to fish with you again soon. Are you going to be out this next week? If so please see my post for weekdays! See ya soon, WP

[Born to be Wild]

About that partical clip.. I caught one like that so I let it go. Talked with the fish counting lady and she said that as long as you can tell that it has been clipped and it is HEALED then it is legal.. she also said, that grade school kids do the clipping and what do you expect??

<font size="2" face="verdana,arial,helv">Lepper,

I wouldn’t trust what a fish sampler says is legal or not. In fact the Depoe Bay fish sampler is the one that called the State Police regarding the coho that I posted that picture of.

The trooper said it was an illegal fish. He just issued a warning instead of a citation. He showed all involved page 11 of the regulations which states:

Adipose Fin Clip: A healed scar where the adipose fin has been removed in its entirety .

I told the trooper I would post the pic of that fish on ifish for an example to learn from.

I looked it over at great length and could not tell whether it had been clipped or not. It was not a normal fin clip nor was it a normal adipose fin.

The captain of the boat made a judgment call probably figuring it was a bad clip. After that experience he will release them like that in the future.

Three coho were brought in like that Thursday resulting in warnings and one wild coho was brought in with the adipose intact resulting in a citation.

Dan

[Born to be Wild]

Just for the record:

When I talk about charters, I don’t mean all of them. They are not all the same.

Some of them are very professional.

The discussion that was heard the other day by me and a couple other ifisher’s was started by Jeurgan Turner of the Tacklebuster. He is very professional. He got on the radio and told of five fish in a row that were larger, really put up a good fight only for them to identify the adipose fin in the water. I don’t know how they were released but feel they were released in a responsible manner.

His deckhand fishes the rivers and I am sure he knows the difference and value of wild fish. Carl is a good kid.

When Jeurgan got off the radio another charter got on there and said; “You know Jeurgan, those aren’t really wild fish.”

Jeurgan is the one that was being a little critical of another charter boat deckhands handling of wild fish and even heard him say something about knocking the scales off. That’s when the other captain said; as far as I’m concerned, kill ‘em all and then I don’t have to catch them again. This is yet a different captain than the one that said; those aren’t really wild fish.

The problem is in the attitude. How can you expect the deckhand to handle the wild fish responsibly when their boss expresses that kind of attitude?

I don’t understand their attitudes. Even the harbor master Gary will tell you that there is a difference in a hatchery and wild fish from his experience as a fisherman.

They refuse to listen to science, biologist, and many experienced river fishermen like myself that tell them from our experience, there is a difference.

Regardless, they are shooting themselves in the foot because there quota is determined largely by the numbers of wild coho that return to the coast every year.

Those wild fish belong to all of us and I would like to see them rebound enough for us to fish them in the rivers again. These actions don’t help speed up that process.

I cleaned up my original post a bit because it was one of those bad days for me when I posted yesterday. Today I’m doing allot better.

Dan

[Wood N' Fish]

It's unfortunate that there are alway's some bad apples around. It is unbelieveable that charter operators would not comply with fin-clipping as a management tool, to keep them in business! After all, the coastal charter industry was one of the most vocal groups to encourage marking, as a tool to allow harvest. I would suppose violations are probably not that frequent, or they would be out of business.

[PBR Streetgang]

I've been boiling for quite a wjile over the charter boats at Newport. A few years ago, when I had a smaller, junkier boat, one of the Tradewinds boats came screaming into the bay. He was leaving about a 3' wake behind him, if I would have been looking the other way I probably would have been flipped over. I swore if I ever saw it again I'd fill his boat full of holes. Then I came to my senses and decided I would just call the Coast Guard.

This brings up another peeve, traffic in Yaquina Bay. This bay has got to be one of the busiest in Oregon. It's really not that big in there and everyone seems to scream in and out as fast as their boat will go. There doesn't seem to be a lot of common sense going around or just plain courtesy. I get worried if I get near another boat and leave any wake while most others seem to make it a contest as to how big a wake their boat can leave. I'm really surprised that there are not more accidents there and surprised that at least one person is not killed every year there.

Tim

[CAPT KUJO]

I'm right with you Dan, This is the first year I haven't caught many wilds. An I try to identify them while they're still in the water and then just avoid netting and boating them if possible. They'll come off pretty easy if you're using the barbless hooks you're suppose to be using.

CAPT KUJO