Bell & Carlson Gunstock Question

kigercreek · 10-11-2008, 07:33 PM

After years of suffering nausea each time I removed my Ruger M77 MkII .223 from the gun case ("Life is too short to hunt with an ugly gun") with that original "skeleton" stock, I decided to purchase a Bell & Carlson Carbolite stock from Cabela's. (Still ugly, but only minor heartburn.) It arrived about 3 weeks ago. While advertised to be a drop-in stock, the action would not drop in without some minor material removal. When I turned the stock over I found that the relieved area for the trigger guard was nearly 3/16" off center and and a severe angle...no way that the floorplate and trigger guard would fit. So I boxed it up and returned it, figuring it was a second.

Fast forward to last week when the replacement arrived. The trigger guard cut out on this stock was still somewhat askew, but I figured I could remove some of the stock and make it fit. I was surprised how much cast off the stock had, which may account for the off-center and angled trigger guard cut outs, which should be in line with the action, nonetheless. I removed some material in the action area with my Dremel so that it fit nicely, then did the same in the trigger guard area. As I fit the floor plate as I assembled the rifle, the screw would not reach the recoil lug. Grr.... I removed some material again (from the floor plate side) which greatly reduced the wood, um...kevlar to metal fit. Now I have a slight bind in the floorplate when I close it. (Perhaps I should have relieved some of the material under the recoil lug, but wanted to keep an even contact under and behind it.) Also, even with the area trimmed out for the trigger guard, my trigger hangs up on the inside of the trigger guard if I don't push the guard to one side when I tighten the screws.

So, needless to say, I'm a bit irked at this whole "drop in" process. Has anyone else had such experiences with a B&C stock? I've read reviews on the Cabela's site pro and con, but curious what others here have found.

baltz526 · 10-11-2008, 09:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kigercreek

After years of suffering nausea each time I removed my Ruger M77 MkII .223 from the gun case ("Life is too short to hunt with an ugly gun") with that original "skeleton" stock, I decided to purchase a Bell & Carlson Carbolite stock from Cabela's. (Still ugly, but only minor heartburn.) It arrived about 3 weeks ago. While advertised to be a drop-in stock, the action would not drop in without some minor material removal. When I turned the stock over I found that the relieved area for the trigger guard was nearly 3/16" off center and and a severe angle...no way that the floorplate and trigger guard would fit. So I boxed it up and returned it, figuring it was a second.

Fast forward to last week when the replacement arrived. The trigger guard cut out on this stock was still somewhat askew, but I figured I could remove some of the stock and make it fit. I was surprised how much cast off the stock had, which may account for the off-center and angled trigger guard cut outs, which should be in line with the action, nonetheless. I removed some material in the action area with my Dremel so that it fit nicely, then did the same in the trigger guard area. As I fit the floor plate as I assembled the rifle, the screw would not reach the recoil lug. Grr.... I removed some material again (from the floor plate side) which greatly reduced the wood, um...kevlar to metal fit. Now I have a slight bind in the floorplate when I close it. (Perhaps I should have relieved some of the material under the recoil lug, but wanted to keep an even contact under and behind it.) Also, even with the area trimmed out for the trigger guard, my trigger hangs up on the inside of the trigger guard if I don't push the guard to one side when I tighten the screws.

So, needless to say, I'm a bit irked at this whole "drop in" process. Has anyone else had such experiences with a B&C stock? I've read reviews on the Cabela's site pro and con, but curious what others here have found.

i put a carbilite stock on my vangard, fit was a bit poor, like you found the stocks are a bit crude when it comes to being strait. mine i would give a B for fit

Dr Strangelove · 10-11-2008, 09:51 PM

Perfect Drift bought a B&C for his Benelli after the wood stock cracked. He had to file alot of material out for the forend to fit. The better solution is to contact the firearm's manufacturer for one of their synthetic stocks.

fishwhenican · 10-11-2008, 11:09 PM

I put a Bell and Carlson on my Savage 116, it was a good fit and I like the way it feels when carrying the rifle.

Ifishsum · 10-12-2008, 01:17 AM

My B&C Duramaxx was almost a 'drop-in' fit for my Savage; I had to remove a little material around the trigger. I'm happy with it and expected to do a little fitting, but unless you're buying a stock from the original manufacturer I wouldn't ever count on it being a 100% drop-in fit.

Beamerfish · 10-12-2008, 06:44 AM

Put a B&C on my ruger last year. Didn't quite have the same degree of problem you described but was definitely not a plug & play. Had to file out around the bolt handle, sand the inside of the barrel channel, and dremel at the back of the receiver so the tang safety could work. Works fine now but if I had it to do over again, probably would have gone in another direction.

Ray

Extrapale · 10-12-2008, 08:26 AM

I bought one last year for my M77 .338 Win mag. Not one part of the thing fit when I received it. I spent every evening for a week fitting it, and I finally got it together. I had problems with the safety and trigger not working properly. I ended up making some shimms to get everything functioning for the season. I was going to bed the action to eliminate the shimms. I also needed to bed the barrel to give some stiffness to the fore end. Only slight pressure (about the weight of the rifle on a rest) was required to make the fore end flex and contact the barrel.

I decided to shop around a little, and I found McMillan having a sale on Ruger stocks. I bought on and it dropped right in. Absolutely no fitting or bedding required. I have bought my last Bell and Carlson product. I will be purchasing more from McMillan in the future.

adobe wall · 10-12-2008, 08:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dr Strangelove

Perfect Drift bought a B&C for his Benelli after the wood stock cracked. He had to file alot of material out for the forend to fit. The better solution is to contact the firearm's manufacturer for one of their synthetic stocks.

Yeah but the Ruger skeleton factory synthetic is probably the only stock that is worse than a Bell and Carlson. B & C stocks are what they are and with synthetic stocks you definitely get what you pay for. Good news is that they can be usually corrected enough.

There are better choices but they'll cost more and will still require some degree of hand fitting and glass bedding if you really want things right.

regards, aw

DogZilla15 · 10-12-2008, 11:32 AM

I would think all that fitting and binding would destroy any potential for accuracy. The trigger guard has to lint up perfectly with the receiver so the screws/bolts pull straight down. Any misalignment is unacceptable. I'd send it back and ask for a refund.

adobe wall · 10-12-2008, 01:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DogZilla15

I would think all that fitting and binding would destroy any potential for accuracy. The trigger guard has to lint up perfectly with the receiver so the screws/bolts pull straight down. Any misalignment is unacceptable. I'd send it back and ask for a refund.

Most stocks that are drop in fit will not allow the rifle to perform to it's fullest potential. Rifle receivers, like any other machined part, have acceptable tolerances. A 'drop in fit' stock will have to be inletted to fit the outside range of the tolerance for the receiver at the low end of the tolerance for inletting the stock. Get a minimum sized receiver lug, and a stock inletted to max tolerance, and it's going to be a sloppy, loose fit.

Having the inletting off center, of course, is unacceptable but in reality if you are going to glass in the receiver it wouldn't necessarily be a deal breaker.

regards, aw

RogueFishr · 10-12-2008, 01:57 PM

I have bought several McMillan stocks and they have ALL fit with absolutely no modification. They are more money than the B&C though....

RF

baltz526 · 10-12-2008, 03:25 PM

well i just had mine apart to clean and prep it for elk season.i took out my pressure point completely and free floated the barrel. this week will be a range week for some gong ringing, final sight in on paper. soon as deer season closes. with the plastic stock, the pressure point lost tention due to stock movement/reseting from the pressure. my point of aim had dropped inches from my last sight in session. plastic stocks and pressure points is not working for me.

Norm · 10-12-2008, 04:53 PM

I bought a factory second B&C for an old Howa 1500, it fit perfectly. The second designation for the stock was for a pea sized color flaw in the camo silk screen

. Maybe because B&C was making the factory stocks for the Howa they were better quality. I think my next stock will be a Hogue

.

kigercreek · 10-12-2008, 05:21 PM

Thanks for your ideas on the B&C. I took the rifle to the range this afternoon, shooting 2 5-shot groups in breezy conditions. The last 5 shots were just under 1 3/16 inches (100 yds). Four of the last five groups that I shot out of the rifle with the original stock were just over 3/4". Acceptable in a factory .223 with no modifications, save that of a layer of electrical tape to put some pressure behind the recoil lug...and it took me a few years to come up with a load which would shoot sub-inch groups frequently. (If that original stock wasn't so dang ugly!!) So...I have some work to do yet on the inletting/pressure points. I'm sure I'll end up doing some glass bedding. And as Extrapale mentions, the stock could be stiffer.

Oh well, I guess I wanted (another) winter project! And if I get too frustrated, I'll put it back in the orginal stock, sell it, and/or buy another Cooper.

Thanks again for the input!

The Bad Fish · 10-12-2008, 07:15 PM

I put a carbelite stock on my kimber 6.5x55 and it bolted up perfect. I really like the stock. I had the same problems when I ordered a laminated one from boyds, floor plate didnt line up all that stuff, very frustrating.. you might try calling stockys stocks he knows his stuff and has really good prices too. just do a google search for (stockys stocks)

kigercreek · 11-01-2008, 02:30 PM

UPDATE for those interested -

Contacted Bell & Carlson. The knowledgeable lady answering the phone wonders says they haven't been getting complaints about this particular model, but wondering if they had a bad batch of stocks which were sent to Cabela's since both of my problem stocks came from there. Requested that I send it back to them for possible replacement and to see what the bedding and problems with cut-outs are in case there is a bad batch. Will update more when I hear back from them.

Don Fischer · 11-01-2008, 06:44 PM

The only plastic stock I've experience with is the factory stock on my 700 ADL. What a ***! Had to completely re-do the bedding front to back just to get it to shoot reasonable. I've though about the Hogue overmoulded stock for a 700 long action I have but just couldn't bring myself to give up my wood stock.

If I had that Ruger skelaton stock, I think I'd just bondo it then sand it down to where it resembled a stock! Then paint it with some of that wrinkle paint.

glowball · 11-01-2008, 07:20 PM

A buddy went through 3 stocks from them before giving up and going with a different brand that escapes my mind right now. I was disappointed to hear that. I recently cracked my stock and am currently looking for a replacement.