REALITY CHECK

Pilar · 07-10-2003, 06:23 AM

Over the last week or so the fever has reached it's peak and the tuna blood is flowing thick.

Also several very serious mistakes have been made by the experienced and not so experienced. I'll go first because my mistake can be instructive to the less experienced.

Before I do that let me caution all of you. This TUNA! fishing is pushing fishers and boats to the limits of capabilities and endurance. Lets all slow down a minute and think about it before we make the front page of the Oregonian.

Wednesday, July 2 2003. The 'Pilar' sailed from Depoe for the tuna grounds ALONE. The ocean conditions were not ideal. The boat was recently repaired and broke down at sea requiring a 24 mile tow from the coast guard. Where was the wingman or packmate on this trip? I hate to put it this way but this was a serious lapse of judgement.

Saturday, July 5, 2003. A large jet boat shows up at the TUNA! grounds late in the day. The dogs are fished out and heading home and this guy is just getting started. Gregotis98 offers to hang around and be a wingman but the driver of the sled waves Greg off and we all head in leaving the newby alone.

There are more stories and more transgressions. This is not your basic go have fun fishing trip. It is the equivalent of going to the moon or climbing Mt Everest. You don't just wake up one day and decide you are a tuna fisherman. You don't just hear the dogs barking on the VHF 78 and go from casual salmon fisher to hard core tuna fisher by pointing your craft west and running towards the carnage.

We are on the edge my friends and I do not want anyone to fall off. If you have the desire to catch a tuna make your first trip with an experienced hand. Know how to use your navigation system. Know how to read the weather and the seas and swells.

Some of the senior dogs are becoming concerned about the lapses in judgement being admitted to on this forum

We can all learn from our mistakes and no one has to die. Take a moment now and think back over the last two weeks. Are you being as careful as the conditions and distance you are traveling demand that you be?

Have you made mistakes that we can all learn from?

We make this look easy It is not easy it is extreme fishing and we are hanging it way out over the edge. Treat it with respect and no one will get hurt.

[ 07-10-2003, 07:25 AM: Message edited by: Pilar ]

Knucklebuster · 07-10-2003, 06:28 AM

Going to the moon or climbing Mt Everest?

Miss B Haven · 07-10-2003, 06:29 AM

Thanks John!

Lets pull up some threads from this winter and spring about gear/range/fuel burn/running with friends etc etc. I think there's a lot of new eyes on this board that could use the advise.

Uglygreen · 07-10-2003, 06:37 AM

I noticed the same thing... Last year we all seemed more concerned with safety. I havent even gone yet cause I am unprepaired, just installed new bilge pumps and Marine VHF for possible Saturday trip.

UG

Pilar · 07-10-2003, 06:39 AM

Knucklebuster ... Well ok, your boat is going to have 150 miles put on it and burn anywhere from 28 to 100 gallons of fuel. You are carrying 60 (420lbs) to 200 (1400lbs) gallons of fuel, 300lbs of ice, 500 to 1000 lbs of fishers and up to 700lbs of fish.

The boat is heavily loaded.

You are also far over the horizon and an hour or two from rescue, even in ideal conditions. You are two or three hours from safe port. Longer if you did not save the home waypoint or have issues with using the plotter on your GPS or even if you lack rudimentary compass skills.

If Mt. Everest or the moon doesn't work for you then think of it as boating olympics or as a steeplechase.

DipSeaDiver · 07-10-2003, 06:42 AM

[img]graemlins/applause.gif[/img] [img]graemlins/applause.gif[/img] [img]graemlins/applause.gif[/img]
We are not new to salt water fishing and rough water/weather conditions, but we have not spent as much time in the BIG blue. We know we have lots to learn and have read some scary scenarios recently. Let us learn with you and from you BEFORE we make some serious mistake.
Thanks Pilar and Miss B!

8knots · 07-10-2003, 06:59 AM

Great Post, Pilar. It is easy to be lulled by all the successful days and the thrill of the hunt. A couple years ago when I was picking the brains of a commercial guy in Ilwaco about where to go tuna fishing he said to me at the end of it " be careful out there and watch the glass, it can drop in a hurry and things can get bad before you know it". You just can't emphasize a safe boat, good conditions and a relatively experienced and hearty crew enough. Fog, winds, swells, cold temperatures, sick crew, mechanical and electrical issues, fatigue, navigation are always there to challege us and sometimes they conspire to join forces. Redundancy, preparation and planning, and picking the right weather window are a lot of responsibility. Good luck and good fishing.

Popeye · 07-10-2003, 07:05 AM

Guys & Gals,
I would like to jump in here also. I've offered this up before and will offer it up again. I have onboard computers on the Julie Rose III with all the navigational aids you can imagine. I have over 40 years experience in the salt. If you are departing from Newport, do not hesitate to either call me on the radio, or stop by the boat if you have ANY questions about whether to go or not, or WHEN to go.

Those of you with smaller, and or open bow boats, please understand that you ARE at great risk. It's up to you to make "The Call", however, do keep in mind that the more prepared you are, the better the chances are for a safe return.

COMPLACENCY IS A KILLER IN THE OCEAN

blubeast · 07-10-2003, 07:06 AM

Good reminder Pilar.

As you've told me before, "you cannot merely pull off the shoulder and thumb a ride from the next vehicle".

These trips are serious adventures. Many Dogs are kind enought to offer rides to Pups so they can learn what's involved. I'm going Sunday with CD & Threemuch to see if it's something I feel my boat, captain (ie...me) and crew are up for with my rig.

Play it safe... the ocean at times is not real forgiving.

[ 07-10-2003, 08:07 AM: Message edited by: blubeast ]

kamloops · 07-10-2003, 07:15 AM

Have not seen much information posted about survival rafts. They are getting much smaller and compact/lighter. My raft is appx. 1'x3' and would fit in any boat.Granted it's a Near Coastal raft, it would offer some degree of safety for my crew should disaster strike. Whats the range on a VHF radio? 10 miles max + -. I also carry an EPIRBS and DSC Vhf and SSB.
We saw some pretty big blue sharks out there last weekend 6' and up.
Coast Guard requires inspected passenger vessels
carry a minimum of safety gear, perhaps we all should strive to include as much of this gear as we are able to carry. I know the gears expensive, but what's a life worth?
I don't know everything about boating or safety but I do think there is no exchuse for not being prepared for disaster.

Popeye · 07-10-2003, 07:22 AM

VHF radios are "Line of Sight" I believe the curvature of the earth is something like 23 miles. Therefore the higher your antenna, the farther your reach. BTW I carry an 8 man survival raft w/A Pack (Offshore) and a Cat1 406 EPIRB, among many other things.

Captn · 07-10-2003, 07:23 AM

Kamloops, tell me more about your survival raft.

OceanBlue · 07-10-2003, 07:29 AM

Let me add to the list of judgement errors we made on 7/2... yes, we went out ALONE. We also went without a kicker (not that it would have made much difference, but it could have given us a little directional control vs. bobbing completely powerless). We went out without adequate trial on the newly installed starter (which turned out to be faulty and failed).

Let me also insert here that it would be a good idea to familiarize your crew with where emergency equipment is kept and how to use it. Flares (which we almost needed to fend off a cargo ship), fire extinguisher (which I knew the location of, but didn't know how to remove from its bracket), etc.

We've been doing "dead skipper training", so I am getting familiar with GPS, but need more. Good idea to have crew fully competent here. If something had happened to Pilar during this incident, I'm not confident I would have known how to recall our position.

On the flip side, that new radio worked like a charm (and yes, we did have a hand-held as well). The coast guard was impressed with our radio communications, calm demeanor and responsiveness. When we got back to port, the chief went so far as to climb down off the bridge, shake Pilar's hand and state that we were the best customers they'd ever had. I got the distinct impression that he doesn't toss around compliments freely.

Anyone wanting to practice radio communications? We can help. John and I both have a great deal of experience in this area. Having confidence on the radio definitely helps things move along more smoothly.

[ 07-10-2003, 08:37 AM: Message edited by: OceanBlue ]

07-10-2003, 07:37 AM

Great bit of advise. Hope this sinks in. You can always go with a charter or an experienced dog. I go out of the CR always go with at least one boat, two is better. The Tuna are also closer mid August-Sept and weather is more consistent.
Rafts and emergency locators are a must! Slay'em safely.

Miss B Haven · 07-10-2003, 07:47 AM

royalfisher -do you dock or trailer that Grady? I'm in Warrenton and would be glad to link up on some runs. Always looking for more company. Not to many of us dogs running out of CR.

kamloops · 07-10-2003, 07:49 AM

On my raft, give me till Monday. If I had the money I would buy one of the new offshore rafts
$2500 to $5000, maybe I'll win a lottery somwhere.

My thought on posting re. the Vhf radio range, was that on a small boat the antenna might only be 48" above the water line together with a 6' antenna, thats not alot of line of sight. Depending on time of day and atmosphere conditions you may well get way beyond that range but I would not count on it.

Popeye · 07-10-2003, 08:06 AM

kamloops....I realized what you were getting at :grin: Another thing about the line of sight is antenna to antenna...the CG has a very high land based antenna. I've actually been 70 miles straight out and could receive the CG loud and clear

07-10-2003, 08:19 AM

Miss Behaven,
I dock my Grady at Ilwaco at L-18. I will be down this weekend and hopefully will hit the ocean sometime around 8:00 Sunday or when tide/weather allows. I am on the shore and will not get down until Sat evening. Give me a holler on CB 13 Shearwater or stop by. Look forward to seeing you.

corrirod · 07-10-2003, 08:21 AM

This thread is overdue. I've noticed a lot of newbies wanting to just jump right in and head for the tuna grounds, and that's great, as long as they do their homework.

For those of you that have just joined the Salty Dogs Forum because of the tuna carnage, please note that these trips have been in the planning all winter. We have spent months preparing our vessels with redundant systems, GPS, VHF, etc. We also have experience in load leveling, gear storage, fish storage, etc.

Some of the recent posts may lead you to believe that it as easy as switching from salmon fishing to tuna fishing..........THAT'S NOT THE CASE. Tuna fishing is always the primary goal with salmon fishing, or any other fishing, as the secondary. Huge amounts of planning go into a tuna trip. The Dogs make it look easy but it's actually quite entailed.

I agree with Miss B that we should pull up some archived threads on the "how to's" of getting ready for long offshore trips. As Pilar mentioned, when you're out 30-50 miles, there's no quick way home when danger strikes. Most trips home are in less than favorable ocean conditions due to afternoon winds. This can mean a top speed of no more than 10 mph, or 3-5 hour ride home. Add to that an engine failure and a ride home on your kicker at 3-5 mph.

At the very minimum you must know how to read a chart, completely understand your GPS, know how to use a VHF, have all your safety gear readily available, know your fuel consumption rate, know the max Range of your boat, have multiple bilge pumps, and the list goes on.

All these things have been covered in the archives and should be learned and gone thru before even thinking about making a run on your own out to the tuna grounds.

Once we find these threads, I think we should have Pilar or Crabbait stick them to the top for awhile, perhaps thru the tuna season.

There are almost always slots available to run with the Old Dogs and I would emphatically beg you to make that your first trip.

BE SAFE !!!!!!!!!

crabbait · 07-10-2003, 08:43 AM

Great topic, John. I share your concern. I am a Salty Dog in the larval stage and I appreciate it when people share the mistakes that they have made so that others may learn.

The old "experience is the best teacher" saw does not work so well when you fail to survive the experience.

One of the biggest killers in aviation is called "get there itus". It convinces otherwise intelligent and successful people to launch:

1. Into conditions that are not suitable for their craft or,

2. To launch when their craft is not correctly prepped or outfitted, and,

3. To launch when they are in less than ideal physical condition for the trip, ie, already tired, hungover, or otherwise not physically 100%.

"Aviation, like the sea, is not inherently dangerous, but is terribly
unforgiving of any carelessness or neglect." - Andre Priestler

Phil Layer · 07-10-2003, 08:47 AM

I'm certainly not an old salt but several of you have seen me on the blue many times over the last two years. I have a capable vessel and adequate, redundant safety gear.

I love to fish every bit as much as any of you and look forward to the day I bag my first tuna (booked for 7/25 on the Irish). I've been invited to join the armada out to the tuna grounds on a couple of occassions from mariners on this board whom I highly respect. I've yet to make the trip. Call me anal retentive, but I've been planning my tuna trip in my boat for over a year now. I don't take this adventure lightly.

When I do go, it will be surrounded with top notch skippers from this board. And, I will be totally prepared and will have caught my limit and returned to shore hundreds of times in my mind.

That being said, I still consider the journey a major challenge with tremendous potential for getting ugly fast (remember Chicken Ranch last halibut season....ACKKKK!! My ride back to port took 5.5 hours)

As has been said on numerous occassions on this board, no fish is worth your life. Thanks for reminding us wannabes that tuna fishing is for the well prepared. All others need not apply.

Miss B Haven · 07-10-2003, 08:59 AM

Moby [img]graemlins/applause.gif[/img] [img]graemlins/applause.gif[/img] [img]graemlins/applause.gif[/img]

Me too- I had Miss B at Warrenton 2 seasons before I was ready to take the big run and had met enough folks to have company on the ride. No regrets! :smile:

ANDYCOHO · 07-10-2003, 09:13 AM

Great post Pilar,

I have to admit that Tuesday pushed me and my boat to its limits. I know my boat intimately from its navigation, fuel consumptiona(range), capacity(20 tuna limit, with 3 men on board and 200lbs of ice), conditions it can handle and its mantaince.

The ocean didn't start off too rough for my boat and my crew on tuesday, but it kept getting gradually worse all day, until I was fishing in conditions that I wouldn't venture 3 miles off shore let alone 35.

I stopped my self and said what am I doing here. My crew was happy because we had just found Tuna, but my gut was telling me that we needed to cut are losses and head for the beach, Tuna or no Tuna.

I had 2 1/2 hours to think about how stupid I was to get my self into this postion all the way home. [img]graemlins/stupid.gif[/img]

I figure my fuel consumption with a 1/3 of a tank in reserve, and thank god I do. The conditions wouldn't allow my boat to plane at my cruising RPM. So my boat worked hard and was only going 12 MPH, burning much more fuel.

No matter how old I get and how much experience I get, I will still learn and become a better Capt. until the day I can no longer get in a boat.

Pilar · 07-10-2003, 09:21 AM

Andy Coho, it takes a big man to admit mistakes.

Sounds like you need more fuel to be safe. Also I have a slighty used net that I need to get back to you.

Fishing Saturday with the crew at Depoe Bay>?

ANDYCOHO · 07-10-2003, 09:25 AM

I have to check with the Mrs. first, I should know this afternoon about Saturday.

corrirod · 07-10-2003, 02:12 PM

One other point I'd like to mention, before you go on a tuna hunt, make sure your boat is ready for 12+ hours of constant running.

A tuna trip is not a bottom fishing trip where you can run to the spot, turn off the motor, and drift around till you catch your fish. This is an ALL day event. So before you go out, take an honest look at your engine/motor and ask yourself, "Do I trust you to run at cruising speed of 20+ mph for 2-3 hours then troll for 5-6 hours at 10 mph and then run back at 20+mph for another 2-3 hours........NON-STOP?"

Your motor will be running for 12+ hours without stopping, when's the last time you tested it under those circumstances?

Also, many times fog and storms roll in creating little or no visibility. Are you prepared to deal with those circumstances? Do you have a compass in case your plastic Jesus goes out? Ever try to find the small hole in the rocks at Depoe Bay when it's fogged in? Try doing it without electronics.

Please don't take this wrong. The intent is not to scare anyone away from tuna fishing. In fact, the more the merrier! Just make sure you've done your homework and ask anyone on this board for help. Some of the old dogs on this site care a lot about everyone's safety and the last thing we want to see is one of our own get hurt or worse.

The season is still early so don't get yourself in hurry. There will be plenty of opportunities to chase hydro projectiles!

Hummingbird · 07-10-2003, 02:40 PM

High John,
I have been reading all the posts on TUNA and it really does get ones adrenalin a going. I enjoyed the Hali trip in May with you and look forward to getting into some Tuna. This is a great Post [img]graemlins/applause.gif[/img] [img]graemlins/applause.gif[/img] It takes alot of Safe Practices and Safe thinking when you are out there. I am going to go out on my first Tuna Run with the Blitz out of Newport coming up in a couple weeks on the 25th. This way I can learn more from someone who has many years of experience. After I get some training , I would sure like to hook up again and go tuna fishing with you. You know your Stuff and admit your faults. In my book, That means a great deal. Good fishing this week-end. I might be up in Garibaldi trying for salmon Saturday. I relly do hope to meet up with some Salty Dogs this fishing season in Newport. Thanks again and Tight Lines,

Tom

kenai · 07-10-2003, 03:20 PM

Excellent post John, We all need the reminder now and then, complacency kills. Just when you think you got it all covered something new greets you. Moby, I sure remember last yrs run back from the ranch as 5+ hours of misery tacking into the swells and hoping I didnt have to choose another port. That was the lesson I needed, it had more effect than a warning from an experienced salt. The idea ought to be learn a little bit each time out and put it to practice as needed. That being said, I hope to yard in some tuna this weekend. My boat is not prepared yet so I'm going for a ride on the black rocket. Good Luck to you all.

Tacklebuster · 07-10-2003, 03:38 PM

Hats off to you Pilar and the senior dogs that are adding to this thread. I want a tuna trip so bad I can taste it but know it's just a pipe dream at this point due to my inexperience. I am happy at this point running west 10 miles chasing salmon and the occasional shark. I love the feeling heading due west and getting a salt spray from the swell you just dropped out of. That alone makes the trip worth my while.

I will spend this year salmon/bottom fishing with a chance at a butt run in August and leave it at that until I get some of this green worn off. I need to fully know the capabilities of my boat and what I can push her to. I have spent to long being the "King of the river" and now I am peasent of the big blue pond.

I would however like very much at a chance to crew a boat with experienced tuna skippers to learn the ropes and get an idea of what to expect. Your concern for safety goes unmatched and I applaud everyone of you for your input and eagerness to help out. I will not be in the pack for the tuna run on Saturday but will be chasing a limit of salmon and sea bass out of Newport. Good luck and be safe.

Chris

CAPT KUJO · 07-10-2003, 04:18 PM

Any salty pups wishing to see the 'safety" equipment on the BLACK ROCKET, or would like to learn more about "cold water survival" let me know.

CAPT KUJO

Metal Manipulator · 07-10-2003, 04:31 PM

All I can say is thanks to all of you for the posting on this thread. I have been getting worked up about tuna fishing and since I am new to the Ocean in a boat the constant reminder of its perils will help me to avoid making what could be a costly mistake. I am hoping to get out and when I go I wont go alone I will be going with some one who has experience coupled with caution.

Thanks

Pete · 07-10-2003, 07:32 PM

Excellent, timely topic. Something we should all read and understand. I had a trip planned for today to chase salmon out of Garibaldi. I have a boat with about 180 mile range, GPS, Sonar, VHF and some experience in the salt. I've caught tuna within the last week. But last night I got caught up in the frenzy. I saw the SST and thought, "Hey, just maybe!" But today, I hit the water. The trip out to 124 was smooth and fast on nearly flat water, where I planned to start my salmon quest. Rational thoughts came into my mind. The water was flat in spite of a 5 and 2 forecast. We hooked a bunch of salmon, but only one keeper. I wanted to catch some fish, but I pulled the plug so I could cross the bar when I knew it would be flat. We then watched boat after boat coming over the Garibaldi bar on an outgoing tide. There were no accidents, but watching 24 foot boats disappearing between the waves of a bar that built quickly and started sloughing confirmed my decision. It's great to dream about what you could do, but it's important to temper it with what the elements could do, too. Only you know your limits. Tuna isn't about competition or prestige, it's just another fun fish to catch that involves a complex, shifting adventure. It's not worth extending the safety envelope for. Grow the envelope to permit a safe tuna trip - it takes time to learn the ocean, to expand your skill and knowledge so that you CAN have fun, safely.

Albacore Tuna Captain · 07-10-2003, 07:58 PM

All this information is extremely helpful for those who want to go after Albacore. But no information will replace experience. Go with those who have done it before and when you are ready to do it on your own, go with a pack mate. I've experienced some scary changes in the ocean beyond what has been forecast and lived to tell about it because I've always been aboard one of my charter boats that have been certified and equiped for the worst. But one needs to remember that most recreational boats have never been engineered for the type of enviornment you will encounter offshore. Many of these boats manufactures will tell you the boat has built in floatation and this tends to reassure you that you will be safe. Well let me say this! A boat floating upside down is a hell of a way to end a day! The single most dangerous ocean condition you will ever encounter is when the seas get steep and close together. A four foot wind chop will roll many recreational boats over if you find yourself without an engine to handle the boat or a sea anchor to hold your bow into the seas.

So consider all the aforementioned advise by all and use good common sense when going offshore. Don't run alone, ensure your boat and equipment is in excellent condition, file a float plan and never, never push the edge of the envelope. If it can get bad, it will!

WP · 07-10-2003, 08:03 PM

I have waited all year for that first blood of the season. I have planned and scheemed. I wanted to go out on Thursday the 3rd and "knew" Pilar was going out too. Others talked about it too. Pilar was out of commission and I couldn't find anyone else going out. The weather was good and the ocean nice.... Salmon was good and I put off the opening salvo until I had another boat to travel with. I felt good about that decision. This week I got out 3 days and caught lots of fish...always in the company of other boats. Planning and preparation are certainly important and not to be minimised, but the safety margin of having others close and in contact with me is the element that I find critical! I want to thank all the fellow tunaholics that I shared this week with...Seasquid...Andycoho...Sea Jypsee...Marty and Mark Mc...Diamondsides...and many others. Thanks for sharing and caring. I WOULD NOT go it alone. I may be nuts and willing to take calculated risk but prefer it with back-up! Tuna is a wonderful fishing form and I would like to be able to do it for many more years!
WP

Mojo · 07-10-2003, 08:52 PM

Yo Salty ones,
I am a frequent lurker here, and a salty dog wannabe. I have to say one thing, I have been stocking my 22' V-Sled with safety articles (many items I picked up off these threads) since I bought her 3 years ago. Am I ever going out in big blue in my sled? NO! Have I run into severe conditions on "smaller water", YES! Have these safety threads saved my bacon, yes!

I was on a large inland lake (lake not OCEAN) several months ago, when the weather turned nasty. Tornado and 70 mph winds nasty. 7 foot whitecaps, at about 8 seconds nasty. Many of the lessons I learned from you salty ones saved my life and the lives of my 2 best friends that day. We got wet, ran the hell out of the bilge pumps, always had one guy driving, and two guys "solving problems". It was a team thing. One thing to remember, Air Force pilots are taught that in an emergency, rule number 1 is fly the jet! Rule number 2 is once controllability is established, trouble-shoot the problem. Rule number 3 is fly the damned jet!

As boat skippers, we need to remember that our number 1 priority is the safety of our passengers. Know the limits of your craft, and your skills...and stop at 80% of those limits. Know what you need to do in an emergency. Jen and John practicing "Dead Skipper Drills" is brilliant. Teaching everyone that goes out with you how to be the skipper, if necessary, is mandatory.

This thread is excellent! It should be a mandatory read for anyone that runs any boat in any open water.

Pilar-

, Salty Dogs-

[ 07-10-2003, 10:10 PM: Message edited by: Mojo ]

Fishing Dispatcher · 07-10-2003, 10:20 PM

Thanks for your concern, but we are not as new to the salt as you may think. I have alot of respect for you guys, but just because we had not fished for Tuna but one other time, doesn't make us newbies to the ocean or long trips. We do know how to use our chart platter and GPS. Is it because I've only posted 20 times that makes you think we are green at this? Or is it because the boat hasn't been seen that much? Yes, I will admit, like you did, going out alone isn't the safest thing to do, but most of us have done it. That is the reason we buy the saftey gear. As for waiving gregotis98 on we left shortly after he did. Anyway, I hope to see you out there this Saturday and many days to come.

South Paw · 07-10-2003, 10:41 PM

Hmmm food for thaught. I've just picked up a 24 footer that needs work. this thread just solidifies my thaughts that I'm going to be damn sure that I'm as ready as the boat is before I even think about 40 miles out. NO MATTER HOW BAD I'M DYING TO GET THERE. No pun intended.

CATCH AND EAT · 07-10-2003, 11:35 PM

Glad to see this stuff being hashed out here now before someone gets hurt. I spent a lot of time getting Cindy Lou ready for salmon season this year. Still have problems with her and I am suspecting a few more issues to crop up. I don't feel comfortable running out that far at this time. So a salmon fisher I will again this year. huh...like there is anything wrong with that, right?

For now I'll try to bum a ride from a Salty Dog for some saturday or I will go out on a charter. Feel much better about my decision not to try it in my boat this year. Need more of the redundancy issues solved. I don't take my salmon trips lightly either. Just lots more folks around to lend a hand if trouble occurs and it sure is closer to home too. :smile:

Folks, listen to what is being said here please. This is serious stuff.

Pilar · 07-11-2003, 04:54 AM

Fishing Dispatcher .. please don't feel picked on. The only part of what you did on the the 5th I would question is the late start. This time of year the winds kick up in the afternoon.

I want to be on the way home or at the dock when the wind blows so I head out at first light. Experience has taught me to do this.

Did you get any fish?

RatherBFishn · 07-11-2003, 07:08 AM

Good topic. I am also a new Tuna fisher wannabe and appreciate the knowledge you guys are sharing. I have been working on a Tuna capable boat for 4 months now. I am getting more and more confident that this boat is in excellent mechanical condition and should be able make a safe trip to the Tuna grounds and back. This boat should have a range of about 200 miles. I have been out 10 miles a few times this year without any mishaps and am planning another sea trial this Sat. A few more sea trials and I will be asking for an experienced Salty Dog or 2 to join me on my first Tuna trip. I got quite a bit of boating experience but no experience in less than ideal conditions. I just don't go if I am uncomfortable with the conditions or weather forecast. Maybe that is the first and most important decision a boater must make before launching. Keep up the good work guys. Hope to join you soon in the happy tuna grounds. [img]graemlins/applause.gif[/img]

Sea Jypzee · 07-11-2003, 07:19 AM

As a late comer to this thread (was out tuna fishing yesterday) :tongue: I figured I'd go ahead and toss out a few words as well.

While I'm new to this site, I'm no newbie to the Salt, and have seen and made my share of mistakes before while out on the big blue.

My first trip out (1997) in my own boat to the Chicken Ranch. Was a 25' Custom Craft Dory I'd purchased from a Commercial fisherman who started his commercial career in that boat. Anyway, I was out on the Ranch and on the way back in. (May season) Had a Sheer Pin break while I was 30 miles offshore, and no kicker. At the time I didn't know that's what it was.

I tried calling the USCG, with no response from the CB or the VHF. I finally got ahold of the guy I'd bought the boat from via my Cell Phone. (was RIGHT on the edge of a signal) and he talked me through getting the VHF working again. (loose wire as I recall). As it turned out, he was out on his current boat, and a few miles away from me, so pulled his gear and started headed my way. We switched to VHF communications once I got it up and going again since the Cell signal was out. (Drift was SE) with building NW winds. Ocean was starting to get nasty. I contacted the Coast Guard to make them aware of my situation, and they simply monitored us during the tow in.

By the time we got the tow underway it was nearly 4pm as I recall, the seas were building up bigger (as I said, it was the May halibut season), and it was starting to look pretty nasty out there. Had swell and wind waves coming over the boat. Was not a good picture at all. Thankfully I was semi-protected under the hard-top. The trip back to Newport took till 3am as we could only tow at about 3kts. Was a very long and nasty ride, and thankfully the worst injury I sustained was to my ego and several bruises from being banged around the boat.

I learned a lot of lessons that day, lessons about the sea, the radio(s), safety gear, etc. Thankfully I lived to learn them.

One of the things that prompted me to post is that I've seen people talking about going out for Halibut, almost as casually as if it were a Salmon trip. One thing to remember and consider is that the Chicken Ranch is nearly as long of a ride as a tuna trip in many cases, and if you go out ill prepared, during the wrong time of year (may season), can be even worse weather and seas. Nearly everything that applies to a tuna trip here should also apply to deep water halibut trips as well.

Fishing Dispatcher · 07-11-2003, 04:19 PM

Pilar,You must of missed my post to you thanking you and all the others that were out there that day. Yes we did conme home with 6 and lost that many. No I don't fill picked on,(I been treated worse)we will try to get to Depoe by 5:00 on Saturday to say hello.

fishing is life · 07-11-2003, 08:35 PM

Thanks to Pete for pointing this post out to us non saltys. Although i wont get out for Tuna cause i am terrified of being out so far and being sick and making my mates feel bad for me, I appreciate posts like these on safety. You can never be too safe or too prepared. This is extreme hardcore fishing and should only be attempted by the experienced and well prepared and equipped. THis post makes me even want to be safe on the inland fishing. Ifish has definitely made me a safer fisher thanks to the people who will share mistakes and advice.

Pilar, just curious, does the CG charge for what they did for you? I was always wondering what happens in that situation.

Sea Jypzee · 07-11-2003, 08:40 PM

F.I.L. I can answer that. The Coast Guard does not charge for a tow in. They will often do a boarding once they get ya back to port safely though, and look for possible problems to cite, depending on their mood. :tongue:

Since there is no Vessel Assist (towing business) here on the coast, the Coasties are the only 'game' in town. They know their business and do it quite well. They well deserve our respect.

WP · 07-11-2003, 08:57 PM

The Coasties deserve our respect, our help if needed, our support through taxes and political channels, our admiration for the skills and knowledge they display and our thanks for the outstanding job they do, every single day. Thanks Nancy for reminding me again to keep this in mind!
WP

KrystalFlash · 07-14-2003, 12:50 AM

I think the basic message here is:

KNOW YOUR CAPABLITIES and LIMITATIONS and APPLY THAT KNOWLEDGE to EVERY SITUATION.

It only takes a few seconds to go from a great trip to DISASTER.

BE CAUTIOUS and TOTALLY AWARE and ALERT.

KF
Team DoubleGaynor

Popeye · 07-14-2003, 08:46 AM

Saturday, off of Depoe turned into one of these "Dangerous Days" that we're talking about here. The bar and ocean were basically flat as we departed Newport Sat. AM. Heading W/NW I noticed in no time that the SW wind was building fast! By the time we met up with the "Pack" it was flat gettin' with it! Trolling north wasn't too bad, but making the turn south was very "uncomfortable". Finally after taking Green Water over the bow twice in 5 mins. I decided to speed up a little and troll homeward (only had two in the box). As I trolled E/SE it got worse and worse, pitching the Julie Rose back and forth at about 30 degrees. I told the crew to pull the gear so I could get the bow up and head in. I headed in on autopilot until it became apparent that it was getting dangerous to do so. I took over manually and sped up so that I could have more control to "drive through the troughs" which BTW hit 7' wind wave by the time we reached Newport. FYI, a smaller boat will take this kind of steepness better than a 47', however, if a small boat loses power, it IS in peril. Moral to the story: This is what can & will happen out there....BE CAREFUL

fish assassin · 07-14-2003, 09:01 AM

Popeye,

Had a great day with you out on the "TUNA! grounds" on Saturday. Was a lot
of fun fishing with you!! :grin: :grin: "Julie Rose" is a FINE looking vessel on the
water!!

We fished until 4:30-4:45 on Friday and didn't get back to port until about
6:30, so by the time the fish were taken care of, the boat (sort of) cleaned
and we drove back up to Pacific City to a nice soft bed it was getting
on toward 10

m. Saturday morning I was up bright and early, but my deck hand
wasn't moving too well. I think that might have had something to do with either
the 44 fish we caught in 2 1/2 hours or the terrible sunburn he got! Might have
been a little of both?

We got back to Depoe Bay Saturday morning and left the dock at the crack of
Oh-nine-thirty or so ... the SW wind was up pretty bad and the swell was building.
Our plan was to go North to the Siletz reef and fish for ling cod, but the ocean
was way too nasty to even put our gear out. It turned into quite a ride South against
that wind and chop. Glad to hear that you were able to get back from the TUNA!
grounds OK on Saturday. I was worried for all of you that were out there!!

-assAssin-

Popeye · 07-14-2003, 09:28 AM

FA....err Sat or Fri? :grin: :grin:

CrazyFish · 07-14-2003, 09:43 AM

Popeye,

I think that you hit the nail on the head

Quote:

a smaller boat will take this kind of steepness better than a 47', however, if a small boat loses power, it IS in peril.

<font size="2" face="verdana,arial,helv">The smaller boats were doing better But what happens if they loose power and wind up a drift in that much chop? It could have been bad. :shocked:

P.S. Popeye thanks for the ride, the wonderful day and my FIRST ALBIE :grin: :grin:

[ 07-14-2003, 10:44 AM: Message edited by: CrazyFish ]

Pilar · 07-14-2003, 10:15 AM

Popeye, glad you did not damage your beautiful boat.

Yes, it blew up big after we reached the fishing grounds. Once we decided to run in we could only go about 7 to 10 mph so we trolled in most of the way and got a few more fish. It was way too much to try to fish hard as we were getting thrown around and all fishing was done on hands and knees.

We managed 9 fish but the damage was a dead radio and cell phone. Several waves went green over the bow and right through the top.

These are as Popeye calls them dangerous conditions. We had no business being that far offshore and downwind of home. The forecast was not that bad but as we all know NOAA forecast are a best guess.

I keep having a thought about getting Tuna fishers together before a wolfpack and discussing conditions. Maybe make a group decision to fish or not. Given the fickle weather and inaccurate forecasts this would have to be a pre launch meeting.

Maybe many heads could make the right decision. I'm pretty sure that I made the wrong one Saturday. I got the boat problem solved and went right into heading west after that. The weather got a minimum of attention and that is where I went wrong.

What do you guys think?

fish assassin · 07-14-2003, 10:23 AM

Popeye,

Friday... OK, I'll admit it, I'm lost in space AND time!!

-assAssin-

Miss B Haven · 07-14-2003, 10:30 AM

One thing we did last year when it was marginal was make the commit that any one boat could call the day. We all agreed to go in at that time. It was the first trip last year and it was marginal going out and just kept building. I called the trip after deciding it just wasn't any fun out there (even though we were picking up a fish here and there) and the other two followed without a complaint (not until the dock anyway). :grin:

skein · 07-14-2003, 10:58 AM

I think the biggest enemy is The Glaze.

It's the glaze that comes over your eyes when:

* the opener is only three days long
* the fish are there and you know you can get into them
* the SST says the break is just a few more miles west
* it's breaking day and you've driven a long way to make this trip
* you've bought the gas, bought the ice, gathered up the bait, and none of it's going to last if you don't get out
* you've been waiting all winter for today, and only wet lines catch fish

What else? I'm watching, not only this thread, but the thought processes of this Brotherhood called Salty Dogs. I know the "bad guy" is gonna sit on my shoulder one of these days, telling me to go on out or fish a little longer, and my only defense is going to be remembering what can happen when you push the limits too hard or too many times.

It takes guts to go out there in the first place, and it takes guts to make the call when you're there.

"Lord, grant me the courage...."

Skein

[ 07-14-2003, 11:59 AM: Message edited by: skein ]

seasquid · 07-14-2003, 10:59 AM

Pilar,

I like your idea. Last Tuesday was not near as bad as Saturday, but at the same time everytime I turned into the South wind it was pretty bumpy -- dangerous? -- no, just somewhat uncomfortable. I was keeping a keen eye on the wind and water and ready to make the call to head in at anytime.

The dumb move I made last week was leaving before anybody else was ready or even there. I knew there were boats coming behind me, but I let the crew talk me into leaving since we were just standing at the launch. I feel fortunate that WP just happened to be running on the same course about 30 minutes behind me -- nice to see him on the horizon. A few boats joined in later, but for a while I was the lone boat at 61 degrees.

I guess we all learned something last week ... how about being in the same situation as the commercial boat and drifting for hours before someone (FA) just happened by -- not a good deal.

We are pushing the limits on a fairly nice day, most of us probably exceed it on a less than desireable day. We are riding heavy with ice/fish -- I know I was flat too heavy on Tuesday coming in -- thus I stopped a few fish short of what I could hold on Thursday.

It's only July 14, we have two more months to pick our days -- and we all know there are some August/Sept. days that will be flat.

ss

corrirod · 07-14-2003, 12:37 PM

Pilar,

I had an electronics problem that day also. I lost both the plastic Jesus and radio as well. I dead reckoned it back to Depoe from 21 miles out. The radio kept coming on and off so I could've still got some use out of it if needed.

Here's one to think about also, I had a spare handheld GPS onboard but didn't have a waypoint for Depoe Bay so it was useless. My charts were in the other boat so I was SOL. Guess what, now I have a waypoint saved at Depoe on my handheld!

Fortunately when we left the tuna grounds we trolled due south and once we finally picked up the lines it was an almost due East shot to Depoe so we could run at about 18 mph.

You know it's bad out when you're trolling at 6-8 mph and your boat is launching off the waves and falling into the troughs just in time to take the next wave over the bow! :shocked:

All I can think of is how many fish we'd have carked if it was nice out! :shocked: There may not have been any left!

[ 07-14-2003, 01:39 PM: Message edited by: corrirod ]

RJ · 07-14-2003, 12:40 PM

I usually dont say much here on this site but I guess I will step on my tounge,Saturday was a crappy day to be out there for sure and Squid's right it wasnt to the dangerous point but plenty uncomfortable.I wanted to call it before we even left the house after checking the updates at 4am and watching the wind but EGO'S prevailed.I guess what bothered us the most was the comment that came over the radio after we let it be known we were cutting our losses and heading in ,the one that went somethin like :well were already out here ya know how that goes comment: well we came in low boat and was back at port at 11:30 we had the boat cleaned out and the fish put up before 1:00 and as I stood on the overlook stareing out towards the 61 spot I shook my head at the whitecaps that were standing straight up and we both hoped everyone would be ok but also knew it was going to be a bad ride home for the crew,Bottom line IMHO if your going to have a group that fishes together and enjoys each others comroderie that group needs to make decisions together and stick to them,watchin the pack hunt is one hell of a lot of fun but you know what can happen when a stray Dog leaves the porch.RJ

The Wak'm&Stak'm should be headed in about now fully vindicated from saturdays cut and run,think I'll head down there and give the boys a hand.RJ out

[ 07-14-2003, 02:38 PM: Message edited by: RJ ]

Popeye · 07-14-2003, 12:50 PM

One thing that I should of included in my above post & didn't, is some constructive information, so here goes...EVERY boat should carry a sufficient Sea Anchor. In case some of you out there don't know what this, it is either a cone shaped vinyl/canvas sock with a bridle (called a Drogue) or a parachute type sea anchor. In my post above, I talked about what can happen to a small boat that loses power in bad seas. If you have, and deploy a sea anchor immediately, it will turn your bow into the seas instead of crosswise with them, which WILL swomp you. Most people think that sea anchors are just for boats like mine that travel long distances & or stay out overnight, NOT SO. It is one piece of safety equipment that everyone should carry. Not preachin', just concerned

Pilar · 07-14-2003, 12:59 PM

Popeye, the 'Pilar' tends to run downwind bow first because the canvas acts as a sail, not crosswise. How would I use a sea anchor? On the bow?

On the day we lost the starter we drifted stern to the seas and only got splashed a few times.

Losing power in a heavy chop is a nightmare. I'm not even sure the little kicker would have given us steerage in that slop Saturday.

Popeye · 07-14-2003, 01:07 PM

Pilar,
Running downwind because part of your boat acts like a sail, is also a potentially dangerous situation ie; It is speeding you up to the point that a following wave has a better chance of swamping you from the stern. A sea anchor not only keeps your bow to the approaching seas, it also slows your drift considerably, which makes the approaching seas easier to handle

[ 07-14-2003, 02:09 PM: Message edited by: Popeye ]