Private party firearms sales across state lines are illegal without a ffl

[kls]

You all may know this already but I just found out.So be carefull. And know the law.

see link

http://law.justia.com/us/cfr/title27....3.3.1.10.html

[kls]

btt

[hunt2much]

Really? Can someone else substantiate this? Huh really?

[nailyard]

§ 478.29a Acquisition of firearms by nonresidents.

No person, other than a licensed importer, licensed manufacturer, licensed dealer, or licensed collector, who does not reside in any State shall receive any firearms unless such receipt is for lawful sporting purposes.

Hit browse next and this pops up.

[wthr4d]

Originally Posted by nailyard

§ 478.29a Acquisition of firearms by nonresidents.

No person, other than a licensed importer, licensed manufacturer, licensed dealer, or licensed collector, who does not reside in any State shall receive any firearms unless such receipt is for lawful sporting purposes.

So it is legal IF you are NOT doing it for dealer/collector/manufacturing purposes but specifically for sporting purposes such as target shooting or hunting.

[jokester]

Originally Posted by wthr4d

So it is legal IF you are NOT doing it for dealer/collector/manufacturing purposes but specifically for sporting purposes such as target shooting or hunting.

That's the way I read it...

Private party firearms sales across state lines are illegal without an FFL ONLY if it's NOT for sporting purposes. I even had a licensed FFL dealer tell me that an FFL is required for sporting gun purposes ONLY if shipping the weapon, because then it brought the government into it. Otherwise, face to faces are perfectly legit.

-jokester

[hunt2much]

See... Thats what I thought... Glad people cleared it up!

[Wrangler]

Originally Posted by hunt2much

See... Thats what I thought... Glad people cleared it up!

Sheeez that miss Quote on here has cost me a couple of nice guns!
But never more I'm a sporting man!

[CombinationLicense]

I would suggest that you contact the Portland BATF Field office to get the straight answer to this question. I researched it last year when considering a trade with another IFISHer and we determined that a FFL dealer had to be involved. It only cost us $20 each to insure that we were both legal which is a small price to pay to avoid a federal firearms charge.

This is from the OFF FAQ page:

My co-worker recently found a pistol at a very popular sporting goods store off of Johnson Cr. Exit off I-205 in Clackamas, OR that he couldn't find in his resident state of Washington, and the salesman there refused to sell it to him outright because he was a non-resident. He instead offered to sell it to him but would ship it to an FFL dealer in Vancouver, WA where he could expect an additional fee. Is this true or is this possibly a store policy? If it is a state policy, would that include the sale to a law enforcement officer as well or just civilians? Thanks.

Federal law prohibits the sale of handguns to non residents. The only exception is when a person has a business in the state where the purchase is being made, and even then that happens rarely.

A dealer can sell a rifle to a person from another state under some circumstances, but handguns must ALWAYS be shipped to a dealer in the state in which the buyer lives. There are some exceptions for law enforcement, but the gun in question must be intended for use in the cops work.


"CL"

[kls]

Originally Posted by jokester

That's the way I read it...

Private party firearms sales across state lines are illegal without an FFL ONLY if it's NOT for sporting purposes. I even had a licensed FFL dealer tell me that an FFL is required for sporting gun purposes ONLY if shipping the weapon, because then it brought the government into it. Otherwise, face to faces are perfectly legit.

-jokester

You are so very WRONG I just did the trade on Sat and had to go to a FFL dealer in Oregon and also a FFL dealer in Wa.

Call any Gun shop in Or or Wa. If you get caught it is a Fed Gun Crime.

[sandman]

Why is this discussion in the classifieds?

[QH's Paw]

Originally Posted by sandman

Why is this discussion in the classifieds?

I agree it belongs in the "hunting" forum. Biggest problem is it is very misleading to begin with. It needs actual legal clarification.

[kls]

478.30 Out-of-State disposition of firearms by nonlicensees. top
No nonlicensee shall transfer, sell, trade, give, transport, or deliver any firearm to any other nonlicensee, who the transferor knows or has reasonable cause to believe does not reside in (or if the person is a corporation or other business entity, does not maintain a place of business in) the State in which the transferor resides

[pythonwill]

Strange, when I bought my 300WM in Anchorage AK they had no problem with me being out of state when they did the paper work. Then I shipped it to myself in Oregon afterwords. Is this a new law or what?

[hunt2much]

Okay now its clear as mud again... I thought the residency stuff only involved handguns... But again, lets compare apples to apples and oranges to oranges. Lets either discuss private party transfer of hanguns or private party transfer of long guns. Or dealer to PP hand guns or Dlr to PP long guns. Different rules for different people and different firearms.

[Bobberman]

Originally Posted by pythonwill

Strange, when I bought my 300WM in Anchorage AK they had no problem with me being out of state when they did the paper work. Then I shipped it to myself in Oregon afterwords. Is this a new law or what?

if there was paperwork, it probably was a FFL.

[pythonwill]

Originally Posted by Bobberman

if there was paperwork, it probably was a FFL.

it went through one there but not in Oregon, I thought he ment you needed one in both states

[kls]

. UNLICENSED PERSONS


(B1) To whom may an unlicensed person transfer firearms under the GCA? [Back]
A person may sell a firearm to an unlicensed resident of his State, if he does not know or have reasonable cause to believe the person is prohibited from receiving or possessing firearms under Federal law. A person may loan or rent a firearm to a resident of any State for temporary use for lawful sporting purposes, if he does not know or have reasonable cause to believe the person is prohibited from receiving or possessing firearms under Federal law. A person may sell or transfer a firearm to a licensee in any State. However, a firearm other than a curio or relic may not be transferred interstate to a licensed collector.
[18 U.S.C. 922(a)(3) and (5), 922(d), 27 CFR 478.29 and 478.30]


(B2) From whom may an unlicensed person acquire a firearm under the GCA? [Back]
A person may only acquire a firearm within the person’s own State, except that he or she may purchase or otherwise acquire a rifle or shotgun, in person, at a licensee's premises in any State, provided the sale complies with State laws applicable in the State of sale and the State where the purchaser resides. A person may borrow or rent a firearm in any State for temporary use for lawful sporting purposes.
[18 U.S.C. 922(a)(3) and (5), 922(b)(3), 27 CFR 478.29 and 478.30]


(B3) May an unlicensed person obtain a firearm from an out-of-State source if the person arranges to obtain the firearm through a licensed dealer in the purchaser’s own State? [Back]
A person not licensed under the GCA and not prohibited from acquiring firearms may purchase a firearm from an out-of-State source and obtain the firearm if an arrangement is made with a licensed dealer in the purchaser's State of residence for the purchaser to obtain the firearm from the dealer.
[18 U.S.C. 922(a)(3) and 922(b)(3)]

I think this explanes it. If you can understand it. I found this all out because the guy I traded hand guns with was a WA State Trooper.
and yes we did paperwork in OR and Wa. so do what you want. I jut hope the next deal you make over state lines is not a ATF agent.

[wthr4d]

Originally Posted by pythonwill

Strange, when I bought my 300WM in Anchorage AK they had no problem with me being out of state when they did the paper work. Then I shipped it to myself in Oregon afterwords. Is this a new law or what?

Try this addendum to the first citation;
...(b) Shall not apply to the transportation or receipt of a rifle or shotgun obtained from a licensed manufacturer, licensed importer, licensed dealer, or licensed collector in a State other than the transferee's State of residence in an over-the-counter transaction at the licensee's premises obtained in conformity with the provisions of §478.96(c) and...

you can buy and sell long guns across state lines IF you go through a FFL dealer BUT short guns need to go from one FFL to an FFL in your home state.

Paul

[Hookmiester]

So are we saying that a private party cannot leagally sell a handgun at a gun show?? If thats true then the counties and the State itself are unaware of such a law. Since the allow such sales to happen on their property.

[Hard Cast]

Originally Posted by kls

You are so very WRONG I just did the trade on Sat and had to go to a FFL dealer in Oregon and also a FFL dealer in Wa.

Call any Gun shop in Or or Wa. If you get caught it is a Fed Gun Crime.

I did this very thing recently - called one of the largest gun dealers in the state of Oregon. They specifically told me that I should NOT use them to ship a handgun ouf of state because they would have to charge me money for something that I was NOT legally required to do. They said to ship the gun to the buyers FFL in the other state.

[Hog King]

This is from the BATFE:

B. UNLICENSED PERSONS



(B1) To whom may an unlicensed person transfer firearms under the GCA? [Back]
A person may sell a firearm to an unlicensed resident of his State, if he does not know or have reasonable cause to believe the person is prohibited from receiving or possessing firearms under Federal law. A person may loan or rent a firearm to a resident of any State for temporary use for lawful sporting purposes, if he does not know or have reasonable cause to believe the person is prohibited from receiving or possessing firearms under Federal law. A person may sell or transfer a firearm to a licensee in any State. However, a firearm other than a curio or relic may not be transferred interstate to a licensed collector.
[18 U.S.C. 922(a)(3) and (5), 922(d), 27 CFR 478.29 and 478.30]



(B2) From whom may an unlicensed person acquire a firearm under the GCA? [Back]
A person may only acquire a firearm within the person’s own State, except that he or she may purchase or otherwise acquire a rifle or shotgun, in person, at a licensee's premises in any State, provided the sale complies with State laws applicable in the State of sale and the State where the purchaser resides. A person may borrow or rent a firearm in any State for temporary use for lawful sporting purposes.
[18 U.S.C. 922(a)(3) and (5), 922(b)(3), 27 CFR 478.29 and 478.30]



(B3) May an unlicensed person obtain a firearm from an out-of-State source if the person arranges to obtain the firearm through a licensed dealer in the purchaser’s own State? [Back]
A person not licensed under the GCA and not prohibited from acquiring firearms may purchase a firearm from an out-of-State source and obtain the firearm if an arrangement is made with a licensed dealer in the purchaser's State of residence for the purchaser to obtain the firearm from the dealer.

[Hunt'nFish]

It's plain as can be......
YES, it's Illegal for private sale across state lines, UNLESS an FFL holder perform the proper ATF Transfer and background checks.

Probably a felony too.
Hunt'nFish

[Smoked Salmon]

Sounds like handguns aren't "sporting weapons" and need some sort of Fed transfer paperwork if they go interstate.

Which is just confusing to me, why wouldn't there be an all or nothing thing?

[kls]

bb

[Uglygreen]

You all are mixing and matching State statute law and United States code. Apples and oranges.

[Incredible_Bulk]

The U.S. Code supercedes the state in this case.

I live in Oregon. I can purchase a gun from a private party in Washington, HOWEVER, I have to have the gun run through an FFL on my end.

I can drive to Washington and buy a gun at the Lacey's Cabela and bring it home, because the paperwork has been done on their end when the sell me the firearm.

If I purchase a firearm (pistol or long gun) from a person Face to Face in Oregon, according to Oregon law, no paperwork, or FFL is necessary. The issue involves crossing state lines. Whose state do you use? Washington, or Oregon? Easy... the Federal code takes over in these cases.

Private party face to face firearm transfers across state lines are illegal unless an FFL on one or more ends is involved. It is the buyers responsibility in the case of a private party purchase to provide the FFL transfer and fee within their home state.

As HuntNFish said, it is in fact a felony -- which means "no guns for you." Outdoorstrader.com, and some of those websites are great, but don't take that chance... the guy on the other end could be an ATF agent.

Thank you KLS for bringing this up and making sure people are informed, many just don't seem to realize it. The state codes make it sound as though sporting firearms are allowed, but when reviewed in the greater scope of the GCA, it's not.

[kls]

Btt

[kls]

this post was originally posted in the classified adds. But was moved to the hunting section. I do not see a lot of guns for sale in this section and think that i-fish is putting its members in danger of committing a felony. I know you are responsible for knowing the law and that ignorance is no excuse. But at least give a guy a chance.

[billc_sbio]

Originally Posted by pythonwill

Strange, when I bought my 300WM in Anchorage AK they had no problem with me being out of state when they did the paper work. Then I shipped it to myself in Oregon afterwords. Is this a new law or what?

Will,

I think it's DIFFERENT for Handguns than it is for long guns.

I know I (being an Orygun resident) have purchased long guns in Vancouver, but the FFL there tells me he can't sell me a Handgun.

He could sell it to me (I could pay him for it), but then he'd have to transfer/ship it to an OR FFL, who'd then do the Background check, Form 4473, and Fingerprinting.

[dabbad]

Just got off phone with Fisherman's Supply Delta Park. He said rifles and shotguns did not need FFL but hand guns and assalt style do.He said Fisherman's will do transfer for $25 and $10 for background check if private party seller requested. Later Dan

[canes_venatici]

Sorry about the ignorance, but what does FFL stand for?

[dabbad]

FFL = Federal Firearms Lic. I meant transfer of rifle and shotguns do not have to be done by a FFL like Fisherman's Later Dan

[dabbad]

http://law.justia.com/us/cfr/title27....3.3.1.11.html Page 2

[Newbs]

Boy am I glad I read this thread. Now I have a clear understanding of the law...

[Shark Bait]

Originally Posted by dabbad

Just got off phone with Fisherman's Supply Delta Park. He said rifles and shotguns did not need FFL but hand guns and assalt style do.He said Fisherman's will do transfer for $25 and $10 for background check if private party seller requested. Later Dan

In the eyes of the Feds there is no difference between an "assault rifle" and any other rifle........

[adobe wall]

[18 U.S.C. 922(a)(3) and (5), 922(b)(3), 27 CFR 478.29 and 478.30]



(B3) May an unlicensed person obtain a firearm from an out-of-State source if the person arranges to obtain the firearm through a licensed dealer in the purchaser’s own State? [Back]


A person not licensed under the GCA (gun control act of 1968) and not prohibited from acquiring firearms may purchase a firearm from an out-of-State source and obtain the firearm if an arrangement is made with a licensed dealer in the purchaser's State of residence for the purchaser to obtain the firearm from the dealer.


Internet advice is worth what you pay for it...here's the link to the ATF FAQ page. Just about every conceivable question is answered there.

http://www.atf.treas.gov/firearms/faq/faq2.htm#b3

[dabbad]

Originally Posted by adobe wall

[18 U.S.C. 922(a)(3) and (5), 922(b)(3), 27 CFR 478.29 and 478.30]

You need to look at questioned ask!!! "can he obtain the firearm through a licensed dealer" The question is not does he have to. Look at code on same website (478.29a Acquisition of firearms by nonresidents)

(B3) May an unlicensed person obtain a firearm from an out-of-State source if the person arranges to obtain the firearm through a licensed dealer in the purchaser’s own State? [Back]


A person not licensed under the GCA (gun control act of 1968) and not prohibited from acquiring firearms may purchase a firearm from an out-of-State source and obtain the firearm if an arrangement is made with a licensed dealer in the purchaser's State of residence for the purchaser to obtain the firearm from the dealer.


Internet advice is worth what you pay for it...here's the link to the ATF FAQ page. Just about every conceivable question is answered there.

http://www.atf.treas.gov/firearms/faq/faq2.htm#b3