Tuna Chaos - Definitive Description, please!

crabbait · 06-12-2003, 10:09 PM

Ok, guys, I have the big reels, stout rods, tuna clones, death feathers, zucker broom tails, daisy chains, aliens, cedar plugs, handlines with knots every 18" and snubbers, GPSs, VHFs, they are welding on the boat, so, how does all this stuff come together (endless questions to follow).

How does the rest of the rigging go? Do you run anything with the clone/zucker or is the weight of the lure enough? Do you want everything on the surface? Do you run them in a line or staggered? How far back?

What are you looking for? Birds (Mexican fishfinder)? Fish breaking the surface? Fish on the fishfinder? Temperature breaks?

How do you determine correct trolling speed? Is 7kts too slow? Is 12kts too fast? What do you do different when it is choppy? When it is smooth?

Now the good stuff: How many lines do you run (I have 4 handlines made up, boat is 23X8)? What do you do when you get a hook-up (count to 10 and hit neutral? Keep trolling and muscle the fish?) When you get multiple hookups do you grab the rods first and let the handlines soak?

When pulling handlines do you wear gloves (I would think so)? What do you do with the handline as it comes to the boat (bucket?)? What do you do when the fish decides to take off on a handline (let go and hope the snubber holds when the whole dang thing comes tight)?

I have heard that, when fighting a fish, others will sometimes travel toward the boat with it. In Mexico, they keep live bait and throw it in as the fish nears the boat in hopes of catching one of his buddies. Do you do something similar?

I think I need a gaff and a quenching tub (how big?) and a couple of 140qt coolers and some Tequila, lime, wasabi and soy sauce, what else do I need?

Tell me some Tuna Tales guys. What should I do? What shouldn't I do? I have one month to complete preparations and try to keep from going crazy (too late) WHAT HAVE I DONE! [img]graemlins/1zhelp.gif[/img]

Sea Jypzee · 06-12-2003, 10:33 PM

Hi'ya Crabbait,

I'll try to address at least some of your questions from my own experience.

I'm likely going to have to adjust how I spread my gear on my new boat, but this is how I did it on a 20' Sea Ray with an 8' Beam.

On each side of the outdrive, I'd place my center handlines with a diver on them, straight to the tuna clones. No extra weights needed. These hand lines generally are about 15' long, so they run right down in the prop-wash, and deep. Then, on each outside corner on the transom, I'd place another handline, about 6-8 fathoms back, running the surface. Then off each side, I'd run a pole, and let them go back to around 75-100' behind the boat. So the combination would form a large V shape heading back from the boat.

Generally, I'd try to set my trolling speed to around 7-9kts. When I'd get a hook-up, I'd cut speed to about half that, and keep going in a fairly straight line. Not uncommon to get a double or even an occasional triple hook-up this way. If I had a hook up on a pole, I'd let it eat line for about a 10 count, then would stop as long as the hand lines were being hauled and kept tight. If I was running solo, (do this fairly often), I'd sometimes only run a single pole, or no poles at all as it's much more difficult to keep the boat moving and handle a pole fish, whereas the hand lines can be hauled while running at half troll speed fairly easy. I've had triple hook ups while solo on the hand lines, and got them all in with no problem this way.

When you're running with hand lines, you do need a good pair of rubber palmed gloves so you don't rip your hands up. You don't let the fish take line out on a hand line. Just yard it in, and over the side of the boat ASAP so you can grab the next one quickly. I use a bucket, or a 'milk carton' by each hand line and just feed the line in there while hauling it in to help keep tangles down to a minimum. When ya get 2 or 3 fish flopping the deck, with tuna cord mixed in, it can get messy quickly if not careful.

Last time I was out with my friend Billy, we got 15 tuna boated by 12:30pm at 25 miles offshore. (year before last). Had a 140qt ice chest and a regular chest, both completely filled. I generally don't bother with a gaff or net on them unless it's a hog. It's easier, and faster to just yard it up and over the side into the boat.

Hope this is of some help to ya.

crabbait · 06-12-2003, 11:19 PM

Thanks, Nancy. You are going to be a great addition to the board I can tell! You should get over to Camp II and meet some ifishers or at least make it to the next Tunaholics meeting.

I am interested to hear other opinions, techniques, and tuna stories! Tell me how it went down the last time you were in 'em!

bait boy · 06-13-2003, 05:10 AM

Sea Jypzee how close to the prop are the 2 center handlines I would be afraid of wrapping one around my prop on a turn?

CB you have an outboard yes? how many rod holders or do ya want meat in the boat. by the sounds of it more folks like handlines here than I thought. last time fishing w/threemuch we had 2 handlines, one on each corner and 4 rods out. 2 center and 2 out rigger style. if you have rocket launchers you can run one more on the center way up high. wind can become a factor for taller boats with rods up high.

If you're yarding your fish out of the water and fishing handlines with rods, stick with Pilars suggestions for the 200LB mono all the way around. If fishing with rods and using a gaff you can use lighter leaders. where this becomes an issue is having crew hook up or change baits on lines. the 200lb means no broken hearts when the light leader gets put on a handline.

That being said I have heard that these fish are or can become leader shy at times...

the boat looked like this.

some folks use divers and riggers and some just use handlines. The patterns that will cause you the least heartache on a turn will keep your baits at different lenghts than each other. Thus the V pattern or the W pattern.

a fish on was do the wait thing and listen to the clicker scream until the rest of the gear was cleared and the boat slowed. 30 sec's to 2 minutes. we only caught one fish on a handline and had no idea he was there until a rod folded and we started to clear lines. the handlines were always in the way if there was a rod fish on and I know this could have been better managed through experience but in the heat of the battle things just kinda get tossed.
for handline fish keep moving at half speed or better and surf your fish to the boat they should come right in. bleed immediately and let them flop on the deck for a second while you watch the aerosol spray of blood :tongue: . when you come to your senses [img]graemlins/1zhelp.gif[/img] try and grab the tail that is going 200MPH and shove him into your COVERED quench tank.

you need one quench tank with the slush solution. and the rest of the coolers start out filled to the brim with ice. as you catch fish your slush will become unslushy thus the coolers FULL of ice. once the fish is cool trade its spot in the cooler for some replacement ice.

I don't know if any of this helped but I just relived my first and only killing expedition and it was almost orgasmic.....( In a brutal cavemanish sorta way)

Sea Jypzee · 06-13-2003, 05:41 AM

Bait Boy - The center hand lines I'd run one on each side of the outdrive. With the divers and at troll speed, they'd fall back far enough to be out away from the prop. I never had a foul that way. Just have to watch them. Maybe 1' or so each side of the outdrive. Your sketch above is pretty much how I run mine, though mine is V shaped.

I've also found that I carry a slotted screw-driver with me. Once I clear all the lines with fish, I use the screwdriver, and pith each of the fish in the back of the head. It scrambles the brain/spinal cord, killing the fish instantly, and prevents them from doing the tuna flop. No major blood splatters, and no bruising of the meat either. I then gill and bleed them over the edge of the boat. Then proceed as you describe with icing them down ASAP.

Tight lines

Miss B Haven · 06-13-2003, 05:46 AM

Looks like Nancy and Rick have covered the spread and the routine for "TUNA ON". I gotta laugh about the fish being on the handline and not knowing it. I spotted all the handline fish last year from the bridge. Desk crew didn't notice the bungie being stretched to the max. I've heard a pop/beer can under the line on the transom works, when you here the can "crunch" you got a fish. Didn't try it cause I knew the can would end up in the drink.
Only thing I don't think got covered Crabbait... I start stringing gear as soon as the water hits 57 degrees. Since you're trolling at a good clip it doesn't take long to get through the temp gradients and find the fish.

TUUUUUNA

PS- since your boat is not ready till Aug, best way to learn the routine is to hitch a ride!

:grin:

fish assassin · 06-13-2003, 06:41 AM

This page will show you the proper way to run your gear, amongst other things ...

http://www.wfoa-tuna.org/page.asp?ObjectID=87

-assAssin-

Miss B Haven · 06-13-2003, 06:46 AM

Commercial fishing vessels that troll for albacore are called "jig boats" because they fish with jigs.

FA- "D-OH"! :grin:

[img]graemlins/stupid.gif[/img]

fish assassin · 06-13-2003, 07:38 AM

Actually Miss B, commercial tuna trollers (aka "jig boats") use the same
gear that you and I use. Those JIGS that they troll are tuna clones and
the like ... on hand lines! But you already know that, right?

There are also a few of the old "real" jig boats working out on the high
seas that use rods and jigs, but they are not typically as effective as the
"new" jig boats that troll tuna "feathers".

Besides, the web page I gave was just for infomational purposes. I has a lot
of good info on how to run your tuna jigs (feathers) and how to run had
lines effectively.
-assAssin-
Mel ... D'oh! :grin:

[img]graemlins/stupid.gif[/img] [img]graemlins/dork.gif[/img]

[ 06-13-2003, 08:42 AM: Message edited by: fish assassin ]

Miss B Haven · 06-13-2003, 07:45 AM

I just found the statement to be very profound.
Kinda like:

They call these fishing boats, cause they fish with 'em! [img]graemlins/dork.gif[/img]

:grin:

DriftR · 06-13-2003, 07:49 AM

One thing I would like to add. We use Mustad double hooks that are BARBLESS. A lot easier to get those hooks out of yourself being barbless. With those albies flopping on the deck in a good bite hooks and line are flying everywhere.
Another option for the stern cleat lines. My buddy and I use tuna boats (orange divers). These things look like small boats. They sometimes carry them at Englunds. Hooked up to a snubber, 200lb tuna line and a Zuker Broom on a leader. Just drop those babies over the stern. They dive down. When the albie strikes the diver flips over and rises to the top. When you see that diver on the surface yard that baby in with that albie attached. I think they are made by Yozuri, not real sure. Maybe Assassin can give more detail on these divers.

Sea Jypzee · 06-13-2003, 07:58 AM

Actually that's the divers I was referring to above in my posts as well. Those are what I run on the center of my V. One on each side of the outdrive. They work very well. I run them just to each side and behind the prop wash.

With my bigger boat coming, am not sure yet how I'll rig my gear. May try a W pattern, or just go with more lines in a V. New boat has a 10' beam, with twin inboards, so shouldn't be too hard to rig.

Sea Jypzee · 06-13-2003, 08:16 AM

Incidently - I just was going through my tuna gear. I also run splashers on my outside handlines as well. I run tuna cord out about 6-8 fathoms, then a splasher, (available at Englands), then the 150lb mono leader back to a tuna clone. Not sure of the 'technical' name of the 'splashers' that I use. They're orange, (like the diving boards), and cylindrical in shape with a large middle section that raises a 'wake' in the water as it travels at trolling speeds. Seems to help attract more tuna, thinking it's a bait school.

My pole lines are just straight back to the mono leader and clone.

Miss B Haven · 06-13-2003, 08:21 AM

"Not sure of the 'technical' name of the 'splashers' that I use"

Would that be a "bird" ???? Sounds similar anyway, maybe a little different shape, same idea? I'm interested. Mr Bill likes a lot of splashing! :grin:

Sea Jypzee · 06-13-2003, 08:59 AM

Ok, here is a picture of what the 'splasher' I use looks like.

So, I guess it's called a Dabo. lol

Miss B Haven · 06-13-2003, 09:09 AM

Oh Ya, have to get me one of those. Lots different shape than a bird. Bet that thing really makes some bubbles. Come to think of it.... hey BOE- this thing looks like it would be real easy to turn on your lathe! [img]graemlins/idea.gif[/img]

Nancy- which end runs towards the boat, long or short?
:whazzup:
I was on a charter in Cabo once that had a teaser made of a bud can. They just ran a line through the bottom of the can and put a flat washer on the business (pull tab) end. Of course, yo uhave to drink the beer first! That concave bottom really made that thing bounce around. Short line right in the prop wash, no hooks, just a red white and blue teaser.

oops- wrong confused Roy's woodworking with Crabbaits wooden head!

[ 06-13-2003, 10:51 AM: Message edited by: Miss B Haven ]

Sea Jypzee · 06-13-2003, 09:12 AM

Short end to the boat.

heh, oops, just went and looked at one rigged up. The Long end goes towards the boat, leader off the short end.

crabbait · 06-13-2003, 09:30 AM

Hey guys, this is some wild stuff! Learning a ton. I expect that I will have 4 rod holders on the boat, 2 off the stern and one on each side.

What rods do you guys favor? "Stand-up" 5'6" off the back and something longer off the sides? How longer? Rated for what line 30-50? Thinking about building some rods - input?

What about outriggers? (Sculpin would look so cool with outriggers!) Downriggers? (Too much hassle?)

I know I am a pest but it is coming up on crunch time and I still have $.15 left on the Visa limit!

Sea Jypzee · 06-13-2003, 09:37 AM

CrabBait - I use a Penn Powerstick Plus 7' rod as my primary for tuna and halibut with either 80 or 100lb Power Pro line. It has a lot of flexibility and strength to handle the bigger harder hits. I fish with this off the sides, as it gives me plenty of reach out away from my corner hand lines as well. This rod is rated for 30-60lb line, but with the Power Pro, it is easy to go much higher.

Miss B Haven · 06-13-2003, 09:38 AM

Hey crabbait- you can run those cards over their limits, you just gotta pay the fee! Don't ask me how I know this!

I'm using my 7 ft Sturgeon rods (Lami's, 50lb) and a Penn Meat stick (80 lb) for the Tuna rods. I wisk I had some longer ones for the side rods to get more spread. Haven't got the boucks to put the outriggers on at this time so longer rods would help. On the other hand- the longer rod gives the fish more leverage on ya! :shocked:

Hmmm.... overlimit visa... outriggers... TUNA!

PS- You named the boat "SCULPIN" ???? :shocked: [img]graemlins/eek13.gif[/img]

:blush:

At least "Pogey" woulda had a nice ring to it!

[ 06-13-2003, 10:49 AM: Message edited by: Miss B Haven ]

crabbait · 06-13-2003, 09:41 AM

Nancy - Is that like, "Hey, tuna, GET IN DABO!" How long is that and how big around at the largest part. I bet Roy could whip some of those out in no time!

I see some rod blanks advertised as "jig" rods, is this what they are referring to or are those vertical jig rods?

Anybody try florocarbon leaders?

Thanks, guys!

OceanBlue · 06-13-2003, 09:42 AM

Steve: Let's see if this is definitive or descriptive enough for you -

25 miles due west of Depoe Bay. Fog is burning off, the ocean is flat. We just got finished playing with the largest pod of porpoise you can possibly imagine. We hear Puffin shout over the radio that he's into jumpers, but they're not biting. We throw gear in the water as fast as possible and begin our 9mph troll toward Puffin's location. Pilar hollers "Fish ON!" followed by, "It's a DOUble!" another split second, "Scratch that! TRIPLE!" - "Holy (shipoley :grin: )! All hell is breaking loose! Stop the boat, stop the boat! Come back here and help me!"

:grin:

I guess you'll have to reserve me a seat on your new boat, eh Steve. I can show you what whispering is all about

[ 06-13-2003, 11:04 AM: Message edited by: corrirod ]

Sea Jypzee · 06-13-2003, 09:54 AM

Crabbait - Englunds Marine has them, probably easiest to go take a look at them in person. But in looking at one here now. I'dd say it's about 12" from end to end. About an inch diameter on each end, about 3" diameter across the widest part. (the splasher part). These are made of a hard 'plastic' type of material. Not sure how it'd do trying to make one of wood. You'ld probably have to coat it with something to prevent it from absorbing water and sinking.

Pilar's Mate - Oh man, you just gave me the greatest flashback I've had in a long time. The feeling of running out, just coming out of a fog bank into the bright warm summer sun, a cool breeze over the ocean, the sound of the engine running smooth, and the gentle rocking of a calm ocean. Suddenly, a huge pod of Dahl's porpoise seen in the distance, and the sight of the bungies pulling tight as you hook up a triple!!

So much for calm and peacefulness. NOW the fun begins!!

Sea Jypzee · 06-13-2003, 10:01 AM

Hehe, just remembered. Year before last, my fishing partner and I were out about 25 miles offshore....straight out from Depoe Bay. Catching tuna like crazy, when all of the sudden, slowely we see this large mass come up out of the water in the distance. It was an old WWII Desiel US Submarine on training exercises. Kinda irritated us that they choose the middle of the tuna fishing grounds to come popping up outta the water.

corrirod · 06-13-2003, 10:07 AM

That's funny, I think Seasquid had a similar, and perhaps the same, experience he was telling me about. Did you see anybody else out there with ya? Might have been Seasquid if you did!

Another question, if you hooked it would that be considered an "act of war"? :tongue:

Miss B Haven · 06-13-2003, 10:12 AM

Nancy- those old diesel boats are tough, they sound on ya and then it's a tug a war (hehe) for a couple days. They do have to come up for air after that though, then ya can stick em with the gaff. :grin:

Now - A nuke is a different story altogether! :shocked:

Sea Jypzee · 06-13-2003, 10:17 AM

He certainly could've been out there Corrirod, as there were several other boats, both private and charters in the area. I know a couple of boats started getting too close and they got on the VHF and ordered everyone to stay back 200 yards or something like that.

Mel - hehe, I'd hate to have a torpedo of any ordinance coming at me!! [img]graemlins/eek13.gif[/img]

ANDYCOHO · 06-13-2003, 06:34 PM

STOP! STOP! All talk of Tuna must STOP!

You guys are killing me! Is it natural to sit in your boat in the street and pay the neighbor kid to run down the street holding the other end of your line as you just listen to the clicker on your reel scream??

Now I heard that Pilar just cranks his tuna in while still trolling? Does anyone else do this and if so what sort of effort does it take? And how are tangles avoided? [img]graemlins/1zhelp.gif[/img]

Pilar · 06-13-2003, 07:56 PM

Hey guys, he, he, he, he, he ...

Don't stop the boat!!!! Absolutely. If you can get turned into the fish and slow to 5 or 6, all the lines will go off. Don't ask me how I know this. :grin: You may end up stopping if the reels begin to empty too quickly. If it is just one fish on a handline, drag em. This always seems to get the other lines to go off.

The only way to get a tuna in at 5 or 6 mph is to turn and try to get some line back. They tire in 5 minutes or less and you can win pretty quick after that.

TUNA! circle clockwise. We always seem to end up in a left turn to get the standup fish to the side of the boat.

Good tip on the fling em into the boat. I just grab the leader and jerk and they land on the deck, flopping and bucking. They are too quick to gaff or maybe I am just gaff challenged.

One last thing .... officially speaking here, Oregon does not sanction more than one line or rod per fisher. We can speak of such things in the theoretical sense though.

Next January, 1/1/04, Chum King expects a rule change ( he instigated it ) to allow multiple lines and chumming.

Theoretically speaking again, a 5 gallon bucket full of blood and herring in 2" chunks is a good thing to have. When you pass sitting birds, start chucking a handful of chunks every 30 seconds into your wake. Wash down the deck and save the bilge full of blood for a strike. When a line starts ripping, pump the bilges and turn your wake red.

Combining that bloody wake with the theoretical herring toss when one line goes off will also initiate a carking frenzy on the boat.

Your mileage may vary and what you do 30 miles offshore is your business.

BUGLEMAN · 06-13-2003, 08:00 PM

WoW Crabbait. Talk about jumping in with both feet. This is the place to do it.

Baitboy I still laugh every time I see your blood Aerosolized face. That was a wild day out on Threemuch. Tuna carnage was at hand.

I like those splashers. I bet they would help the productivity of the handlines and the whole spread for that matter.

The only thing I can add is that plugs and feathers are hard to run together. You want to knock you troll down a bit. Otherwise the plugs roll up to the surface.

Pilar · 06-13-2003, 08:05 PM

I got one of those splashers that is a little different than the Dabo. It is called the Bomb by Yozuri. Looks like a 1/2 cantaloupe with a stick through it. You drag it with the flat side to the boat.

We tried it in the big C by the 205 bridge. It boils a big ball of water and then leaps clear and the bungee on the handline flies it 30 feet before it hits in the wake. Kind of like a tuna leaping after a jig. You can't go more than about 7 or 8 or the damn thing will fly up to the boat and knock somebody out.

That ought to leave a mark ... :grin:

Miss B Haven · 06-13-2003, 09:01 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Pilar:
That ought to leave a mark ... :grin:

<font size="2" face="verdana,arial,helv">Hey- Fish Assassin- I think John is planning on leaving you behind! :whazzup: :shocked:

Good to have you back Pilar...tough week?

Aqua-Holic · 06-13-2003, 11:40 PM

I was in Englands (Newport) yesterday. Most of what is mentioned in previous posts is in stock including the boogy boards. No heads for the casting jigs yet.

Nofish · 06-14-2003, 06:14 AM

Earlier in this thread some of you referred to a planer/diver that could be attached to your meat lines. What kind is it? Brand name? Just curious, sounds like an essential piece of equipment for tuna chasing.

There is an unconfirmed rumor of many tuna being caught off Shelter Cove (Northern CA). If true, they're getting closer!!!

Hey Sea Jypzee, I was the one that left you the link to Salty Dogs on Bat's site (aka RBob)...how do you like this group? Cheers...Nofish

Pilar · 06-14-2003, 06:58 AM

It's a Yozuri K90 or K9.0. A 9 inch surfboard looking thing in orange. They also make one with a bevel that tracks it to one side like a side planer. I don't know the model on that one.

Mel, long days in the sawmill. I'm going back for more on Monday. I have an incentive this time .... Halibut.

Nofish · 06-14-2003, 07:05 AM

Thanks Pilar!!!