Carb update - Thanks Mel and John

PeterMac · 06-09-2003, 07:28 AM

Thanks for the confidence building advice, men! I rebuilt the carb on the MacDaddy, installed it and she fired right up. I think I need some minor adjusting, but all in all, a very easy operation which saved me $300 buckaroos.

Took her out for a test run Sunday and the fuel issues are gone, however I uncovered a cooling problem. She overheated on us about 20 minutes into the run. Got a tow back from a buddy, got home and went to work trying to figure out new prob. [img]graemlins/dork.gif[/img] ended up taking out thermostat and worked fine.... wish I would have done that on the water (again [img]graemlins/stupid.gif[/img] ).

Oh well, going through these issues is giving me a lot more confidence in the boat, in a strange sort of way.

Thanks again for the help. :grin:

PeterMac

[ 06-09-2003, 08:29 AM: Message edited by: PeterMac ]

06-09-2003, 07:36 AM

[img]graemlins/applause.gif[/img]

Pilar · 06-09-2003, 08:21 AM

PeterMac, cooling issues? Is this a singlepass or closed system? Do you just pump water through the block or have antifreeze and a heat exchanger.

Check the outdrive water pump impeller. It may work with the garden hose on the mickey mouse ears but if damaged it will not suck enough water out of the river to cool your motor.

There are other things to check but the worn out impeller scenario is the most likely.

BTW if you run the motor or even just 'bump' the starter without water on the mickey mouse ears on the outdrive ... go right ahead and buy the water pump kit, you'll need it soon. The outdrive water pump is water cooled and lubricated. If you turn the engine at all the water pump also turns. If it is dried out and 'stuck' in the housing, it will be damaged if you turn it while it is dry. 5 seconds with the engine running and no water and it is gone for sure.

The learning curve is steep, PeterMac but it is worth it to know your boat. Like you said, it gives you confidence. Know you have to be careful and stop to get more info if you get confused while fixing the boat. You can damage things (collateral damage) if you do not follow procedures, like water on the outdrive. There are also certain adjustments that are easier to undo than to get right. Like motor mount alignment for instance.

Glad the carb issue is all good. Now you have to try to stop digging.

First rule of holes

"When you are in a hole, stop digging".

PeterMac · 06-09-2003, 08:40 AM

Pilar, single pass, here is what I did to test...

First, when I got home I hooked up the muffs and fired her up, and she went hot real fast. I shut off and let cool for a bit, removed thermostat, fired up with the muffs on again, stayed cool, never got up to the normal op temp line after twenty minutes. Then, thinking that the pressure provided by the hose/m u f f ( ha, it edited m u f f ) combo may be assisting a bad impeller, I filled a large tub under outdrive and fired 'er up again. Same thing, after twenty or so minutes, stayed cool.

What are your thoughts?

PeterMac

[ 06-09-2003, 09:42 AM: Message edited by: PeterMac ]

PeterMac · 06-09-2003, 09:21 AM

Okay John, I guess by re-reading your post I know what your thoughts are [img]graemlins/dork.gif[/img] Rebuild the intake!

Question, is this something I should attempt my self? I read the manual last night and it doesn't appear to be terribly complicated. What tdo you think?

I have located the kit and could start tonight.

PeterMac

Miss B Haven · 06-09-2003, 09:30 AM

Petermac- If you decide to go ahead and put a new impeller in....use regular dishwashing detergent (Lemon Joy of course) to lubricate it. First- it is easier to get in, second, it provides initial lubrication and 3rd, if you get a buncha soap bubbles when you fire it up the first time you know that the impeller is working and pumping water. :grin:
Never use any grease or oil on rubber parts. [img]graemlins/stupid.gif[/img]

PeterMac · 06-09-2003, 09:36 AM

Good suggestion Mel, in fact the manual recommened the same procedure. Hey, your bro was with me on sunday when she koncked out on us....

We talked alot about upcoming trips with YOU!! :grin:

Thanks

PeterMac

Miss B Haven · 06-09-2003, 09:46 AM

Pete - Watcha doin' over the 4th weekend? :grin:

PeterMac · 06-09-2003, 09:50 AM

I'll be at the coast!! Your brother and fam will be attending as well. Got something in mind??? :grin:

PeterMac

Pilar · 06-09-2003, 09:59 AM

Petermac, the issue is stuck bolts. The job is easy but only if the guy who did it last used antiseize or did not mess up any stuck bolts.

Read your Seloc manual and beware of breaking off bolts. You can heat with a torch and use WD-40 or penetrating oil. Dont go crazy with the torch or you will be sitting on the backhoe, digging a deeper hole. Hot enough to make smoke of the oil and no more.

Miss B Haven · 06-09-2003, 10:03 AM

Excellent! Yes- Fishing, fishing and more fishing. Lemme know what days you can get out. I'll talk to the bro.
Planning on going down evening of the 2nd, fishing 3rd through Sunday if the water co-ops.

PeterMac · 06-09-2003, 10:08 AM

John, interesting that you would say that. I bled out the tilt cylinders this weekend and had a hellova time getting the hydrolic hose disonnected. Man it was a bit#h

! Looks like I may be in for more of that :depressed: .

Okay, men, I'm going in

If I'm not out in a day, come in after me!! :whazzup: [img]graemlins/1zhelp.gif[/img]

PeterMac

PeterMac · 06-09-2003, 10:10 AM

Mel, I am all over that like a cheap suit :grin: , hey, I have a few of those

!

Looking forward to it!!!!! :grin:

PeterMac

blubeast · 06-09-2003, 10:57 AM

Pilar & others: if one just happens to start their engine with the drive out of the water, [img]graemlins/dork.gif[/img] and realized their mistake, lowers the drive quickly and then runs the boat for a couple of hours and the temp looks ok... should the impeller be automatically replaced or just keep watching the temp guage for future signs of problems and consider themselves lucky?

Pilar · 06-09-2003, 01:05 PM

Any of you Mercruiser owners should also be a 'SELOC' manual owner. PeterMac, notice that the manual has many notes that start with 'HEED THESE WORDS'. Check out the section on water pumps and what it says about all that. J. Coles wrote the book and seloc is coles spelled backwards. J. Coles was an instructor at a school in Southern Ca. that teaches boat mechanics for a long time. When that guy warns you about something, pay attention.

In 1995 I had a negative water pump experience. The failure occurred on a 'borrowed' boat that I was not completely familiar with. The failure occurred near bouy 22 (Clatsop Spit, near the mouth of the Columbia River) and it was high slack going on Ebb tide.

Not good.

We drifted dangerously close to the spin cycle part of the CR bar on the south side. The CG came and got the 'Seabird' and towed us to Ilwaco. Our launch site was Warrenton. We got lucky and met someone who fixed the problem cheap.

Lesson learned ... be real sure about the outdrive water pump. Be real sure about the water being turned on for the test run.

Blubeast I always do it once a year. Seems like at least once a summer I get in a hurry and forget to check the hose for kinks or forget to turn it on.

An impeller that got a few seconds of dry run may look ok but if you take it out and set it somewhere you will notice that the arms never relax, they are 'burned' and permanently bent. The new one is much more flexible.

This is a 'Jabsco' style pump, those arms have to track the walls of the elliptical pump cavity in order to pump rated volume against back pressure. They do a crappy job of that if they get hardened by heat or age. The pump will still work, even with some chipped, bent or broken arms, it just wont pump much. It will pump just enough to get you far enough from shore to get you in trouble.

So, Dale, the question you have to ask yourself is do you feel lucky? That and remember that a cooling problem is a little different in the auto than it is in the boat. In the auto you tie your hanky to the aerial and walk away. In the boat you call for help and bob around until it comes.

Also things are a bit easier to fix in your driveway than they are at the ramp or 20 miles offshore.

[ 06-09-2003, 02:11 PM: Message edited by: Pilar ]

blubeast · 06-09-2003, 01:30 PM

Yea, yea... I knew the answer to my own question... :blush: It's just that the impeller was BRAND NEW and for the dumb operator (ie..me) to make this error... dumb! [img]graemlins/dork.gif[/img] .

Thanks guys... appreciate your help. Every so often the 2x4 upside of the head helps... especially when it comes to training Salty Pups.

[ 06-09-2003, 05:05 PM: Message edited by: blubeast ]

PeterMac · 06-09-2003, 01:34 PM

John, I have the manual, and as I was reading that section I cringed evertime I read those words.

Not to worry, lesson learned, at least I will know that the pump is new.

Thanks again for the help.

PeterMac

Fishplay · 06-09-2003, 07:51 PM

Geesh! This topic was posted one day late!

Yes, [img]graemlins/stupid.gif[/img]

I went down to the boat today and checked the bildge and oil, turned the battery switch on. Then fired the motors. Wayne hollered at me to lower the outdrives and I had an imeadiate hot flash.

We were advised to keep the outdrives in the raised posistion to keep the clutches against the presure plates and thus prevent corosion.

Me being a jet propulsion guy for some time now forgot about the up down stuff. [img]graemlins/dork.gif[/img]

I shut both motors down lowered the drives and fired them back up.

We put 2 or 3 hours run time on the boat today and the temps ran exactly where they did over the weekend.

I think there is one more new impeller on board, (we changed one out Friday) so it's time to order 3 more.

Popeye · 06-09-2003, 11:03 PM

I've never heard of ANYONE being that lucky :grin:

Miss B Haven · 06-09-2003, 11:47 PM

blubeast - I used to do that on my 85 merc back when [img]graemlins/stupid.gif[/img] . Used to just fire it for a few sec's to make sure it was going to run before I took off for a day. I got away with it probably 10 times before Inoticed there was nothing coming out of the pee hole. I pulled the tube off and found a small piece of rubber in there. It worked but didn't have as much flow as it should. The impeller was shot but not "gone".
Hard to say if yours is going to go or not. If it's older than 5 years you should replace it anyway just for the Halibut.

Pilar · 06-10-2003, 03:24 AM

Clutches, pressure plates? Are we talking Mercruiser here Greg? The 'clutch' is a simple dog and spline with no 'pressure plate' on the typical Mercruiser. Clunk and you're in gear. What kind of setup do you have on that boat anyway Fishplay?

The rubber boots on the exhaust and U-joints stretch when the drive is tilted up. The advice given by the Seloc manual is drive down unless hauling the boat or launching it. This relaxes the boots and prevents cracking. Also cranking the motor while the drive is raised puts the u-joints in an extreme bent position.

If you start the motor while the drive is up the u-joints make funny noises. Also the prop does not work very well when it is 1/2 out of the water. Don't ask me how I know this.

Miss B Haven · 06-10-2003, 06:24 AM

I've never seen an outdrive that would come far enough up to get the water intake out of the water. :whazzup: Unless you guys are starting them on the trailer prior to backing in, the water pump should not be the isssue. As Pilar said- the issue in "trailer" position (all the way up) is the u-joints on the drive shaft. :depressed:

blubeast · 06-10-2003, 06:51 AM

So Mel... go ahead and make my day.... are you saying that my OMC drive may NOT need to have the impeller replaced asap cuz they can't get far enought out of the aqua to 'run dry'????

Miss B Haven · 06-10-2003, 07:23 AM

Never had an OMC, but Mercs only raise up to where the top of the prop is just about at the water surface. (I know- I've had to change a prop in the water off the 1/4 swim step in the Islands out of Port MacNeil) The water intake is well under the cavitation plate. Your OMC intake has to be under the cavitation plate as well (otherwise- no water at planing speeds). Only question is how far it comes up when raised. Do you know? :whazzup:

Orca · 06-10-2003, 08:44 AM

I'm with Mel, and I have an OMC. I believe if you are in the water, with drive up, you have water available at the pump when you light it off.

[ 06-10-2003, 09:45 AM: Message edited by: Orca ]

blubeast · 06-10-2003, 09:43 AM

THANK YOU!!! I sure hope so???

No, I don't know for sure... never checked before... but will check before I swap out the brand new impeller.

Fishplay · 06-16-2003, 10:57 PM

Pilar

This is a whole other monster from what I gather.

I also realized the water intakes on this boat are in the hull. It does not draw water in through the outdrives.