Repowering boats?

Bait O' Eggs · 05-30-2003, 07:19 AM

I am in that slow process of changing boats out. The 18 ft duckworth will be sold , and a long range (read "tuna killer" between the lines), larger boat will be acquired. I have been shopping around, and have come to the following conclusions.

1. I dont really want fiberglass as I know I would tear it up when I am in the rocks.
2. I want welded aluminum (ed wing, or ???) but cant afford it :depressed:
3. Dont really want to maintain wood, but I do love wood boats.
4. I guess I may end up with riveted aluminum, since the list gets pretty short with my exclusions above. I know their are only 2 kinds of riveted aluminum boats, those that leak and those that will soon leak

but I can afford it and it will serve my purpose I think :whazzup: A couple bilge pumps ought to keep up a leaky rivet shouldnt it

I currently have my eye on a late 60's 21 foot Starcraft. I can get it for next to nothing, probably a few hundred bucks, or maybe even free. I am told it runs fine, and the picture doesnt look too bad, but I would plan on repowering. What kind of dollar figure would I run into replacing the 4 cyl motor and outdrive? I want very dependable power and would like to drop in new power so I wouldnt worry about an older motor failing me at the wrong time. Am I way off thinking I can get a motor for a few thousand and a few thousand for an outdrive?? I would plan on doing the work myself. Would $5000 - 6000 +/- repower an inboard/outboard boat for parts?

I have never priced this out and am just trying to get a feel for ballpark price. If you have a reason the boat I am looking at is completely wrong for what I intend to do, please let me know, with my current boat I only fish the Willamette, Columbia and spend time in the ocean (conditions permitting) and bays. I want to do the same, only have a little more room, power and be able to take on a little more ocean than my open bow sled can handle.

This could be my next boat, I will inspect it this weekend.

[ 05-30-2003, 08:21 AM: Message edited by: Bait O' Eggs ]

05-30-2003, 07:33 AM

BOE,
Resetting the rivets is an easy job that only requires two people, a bit of communication and a few simple tools. Starcraft makes a good boat.

Repowering can be expensive especially if you are going put another kind of motor and outdrive in.

Pilar · 05-30-2003, 08:42 AM

I don't know much about riveted aluminum boats but I can turn a wrench and know the inline Mercruisers well.

Bait, I can look into the motor and outdrive for you.

When you say 4 cyl motor and drive, I am curious what you are describing. The 'late '60's ' description is also problematic.

You should also try to find an otherwise unsuitable boat with issues and get the powerplant from it. A Mercruiser 4 banger like the 120 or 140 will swap out with the 'late '60's' model you are describing if it is a Mercuiser, same hole in the transom, same motor mounting scheme. The main thing is the year, you need high '70's to late 80's to be able to find any rare parts for it. Most replacement parts are available at NAPA, Seaway Marine in Seattle or the local boat shop.

Another possible source is (don't laugh) LA as in lower Alabama. My Dad says the place is just sick with boats that are yard ornaments, don't run and can be had dirt cheap. Everytime I call him he runs down the list of what can be had and for how much. A typical price for the complete Mercruiser 140 out of a yard ornament is $500 to $1000. I rebuilt mine from Radiator cap to skeg for $2000. So $3000 for a like new machine.

Also I have a large stockpile of parts, new and used.

I have already used this redneck connection to replace potentially very expensive items like the Gimbal housing and Gimbal ring on my power plant. It costs ~ $200 to crate and ship the whole powerplant by freight from LA.

I will call my Dad and ask him about it.

Miss B Haven · 05-30-2003, 04:17 PM

BOE- I can tell you about Starcrafts and Rivets. I got one and only had one issue with it which was my fault. And Keta's right, they can be re-riveted and repainted. Gimme a holler... to long a discussion for the board right now (I'm hungry). See ya- Mel :grin:

Birdnest · 05-31-2003, 08:10 AM

Could a guy have an off shore bracket built with an outboard as a reasonable solution?

Birdnest

mirage · 05-31-2003, 10:07 AM

Sounds like me, i bought a lonestar/chrysler riveted alum. cabin cruiser. mine had a v6/omc needing total repair. i welded stern for outboard and trolling motors. :grin: alot more room and a lot less expense/trouble. figure any old boat you need to rebuild anyway. got lots ot ideas if needed. [img]graemlins/idea.gif[/img]

corrirod · 05-31-2003, 10:55 AM

Before you get too far into the repower, what kind of fuel storage capacity does the boat have currently? Is it enough for long range trips? If not, can the tank be replaced or supplemented?

If you need to add fuel storage space, how will it effect the weight distribution of the boat?

What is the fish storage capacity? Any fish holds or will you need to bring 150qt. coolers aboard? If so, is there good places to store them for travel?

Self bailing deck? Not a necessity but definately handy for ocean travel.

Dual batteries?

Places to mount fishing hardware?(rod holders, downriggers, gps, radar, etc.)

These are some of the questions I'm going to make sure I use when purchasing my next offshore boat.

Since you can get the boat for next to nothing though I guess you don't have alot to lose if it doesn't work out!

Fishplay · 05-31-2003, 05:56 PM

Roy,
This boat has been listed for a long time and you could probably buy it for 10K.

web page

No idea what your budget is but if your selling an 18ft Duckworth you should be able to come up with 10-12K.

Bait O' Eggs · 05-31-2003, 07:07 PM

Thanks for all the ideas and answers.

I stopped today and looked at it, it has a 110hp 4 cyl motor in it and a merc outdrive. the outdrive looks a bit rough but the motor looked pretty clean to me on the outside.

The boat needs new seats, and top as they are shot. For the most part the hull looks to be in good shape, except for one scrape along a dock or something. A few trim pieces missing but for the most part it looked like a fishing boat.

I really believe the motor could easily be rebuilt that sits in it. Amazing how simple the motors are from a past generation to work on compared to todays computerized machines.

One battery, and one fuel tank that looks about like 12 gallons, but plenty of room to expand on those 2 items.

Trailer has brakes but they look a bit rough. heavy I beam trailer frame in good shape, new wheels and tires needed.

I think to make this a dependable boat it would take the following,
1 - rebuilt outdrive swapped with the current one
2 - rebuild existing motor (though it may not need it)
3 - new seats
4- new top
5- more fuel tank capacity
6 - additional battery
7 - a couple more bilge pumps
8 - some polishing, and TLC for athetics

basically it is a big hull sitting there that is begging for some love

Though the grumman in the above link would be a lot less work

salmurai · 06-01-2003, 11:17 PM

BOE, I've got a Starcraft similar to the one in the pic. Instead of replacing both seats, I let the crew sit on a 155 qt cooler. Tie it down so it doesn't walk around. That will give you some space for the catch. I have also replaced my top with a stand-up version by just adding one bow to the existing top frame. Let me know if you have any questions..... Sal

PeterMac · 06-02-2003, 07:52 AM

Roy, as you know that is the duplicate of the boat that you told me about, and I bought, and love for its high gunnels, huge deck space, fuel economy, classic design, etc, etc, etc.

However, I am experiencing some difficult right at the moment. I have a feeling that I need a new carb. Well, they don't make 'em anymore, at least I can't find one. So what the h### do I do? I don't know. :depressed: I have many summer trips planned, all of them centered around haveing a working boat. Not to mention ocean salmon etc.

I am a little stunned, as I just got into this trouble last night....

PeterMac

South Paw · 06-02-2003, 07:57 AM

I've redone riveted boats before and it's not that tough. If you have more time then money it's a good way to go. Good riveted boats are a good inexpensive alternative and with Pilar volenteering to help on the engine you should be OK for a good price. Do look into fuel capicity though the more the better.

Miss B Haven · 06-02-2003, 09:19 AM

PeterMac - A carb is actually easy to rebuild. There should be a small metal foil tag on the carb (held down by one of the screws holding the body together). If you can find it and get the number off from it, go to a Napa store and see if they can get a kit. If you get a kit- we'll go from there. :smile:
It is a Chevy engine right? :grin:

Pilar · 06-02-2003, 09:29 AM

Petermac ... Seaway Marine in Seattle. Nice folks and you can get advice and order over the phone with UPS delivery. Their prices are pretty good too on New old stock, new and used parts. I have the phone number at home and can get it for you tonight if you need it. They are the answer to N.L.A. (no longer available) when you have to get 'that' part. You have an inline 4 or 6 cylinder I/O Mercruiser, right?

I would make every effort to eliminate bad fuel (use a portable tank with clean fresh fuel to test the motor) and electrical problems (tune up, timing, condensor failure, coil failure, bad points, etc, etc) before I dove into the carburetor repair ordeal. I would also purchase the SELOC manual for the motor. It will be the best $25 you ever spent on your boat. No other manual even comes close.

You won't like the price on the rebuilt carburetor though. I paid $300 for a replacement about 3 yrs ago and may need to do it again soon.

Morse controls in Louisiana does these carbs for the 4 cyl. and 6 cyl. Mercruisers. Beware of using Automotive carbs as a replacement. The Marine rochester 2GC's are very different with internal passages blocked, different power valves, caps over the throttle plate pivots and other SAE marine modifications hard to fake on the workbench.

Remember that all electrical and other things that can cause a fire MUST be SAE rated for Marine service. That is they have been certified to minimize fire hazards. Any detailed Coast Guard or Marine survey of your craft will quickly point out the non rated stuff you will need to replace.

Another source for carburetors is Cascade Marine on 149th and Stark. They have most models on the shelf.

You can also do a home rebuild if the issue is just dirt and adjustment. It has been my experience that carbs wear out quickly (500 hours) and most often replacement is the way to go. I have the kit I just used just a few months ago if you want the part number. Oregon City Marina stocks that Carb rebuild kit for about $25.

Hope this helps.

Don't grieve Pete, you have friends and soon you will have a happy boat. :grin:

PeterMac · 06-02-2003, 10:35 AM

Whew, thanks for the info Mel and John.

Ya, I have the foil tab of the carb, and yes, I think it is a dirt issue, so I will go for the home rebuild, I have the manual you are refering to, and yes it has anything you want to know...

The engine is the in line 4 cyl - 110 horse mercruiser - 1966.

I just recently did the entire tune on the plugs, points, wires etc, and the spark is dandy. When I pulled the top off the carb there was lots of dirt in the float chamber, and plenty of fuel as well. The passage is clogged, that is my problem.

Okay, get kit, give it a whirl, and call my buddies if I have trouble. [img]graemlins/dork.gif[/img] :blush:

Thanks for the names of suppliers. This board is great...

Feeling better now......

Pete

Pilar · 06-02-2003, 10:42 AM

Pete, the dirt got in there because your fuel tank has issues.

Most marinas will not warranty a repower of an old boat unless the gas tank is replaced also.

So absolutely go the extra mile to replace all the rubber hoses in the fuel system. Get the fuel tank cleaned or replaced and find the source of the contamination.

Or ... you will be right back where you are soon.

Maybe you can use your new strapon tank to test the motor and boat. That way it will run nice on the clean fuel before you go back to the permanent tank. This procedure is usually necessary to convince the owner of the unhappy boat that his problems are all related to the dirty fuel tank.

salmurai · 06-02-2003, 09:47 PM

BOE, If your boat has a water separating fuel filter, it may be the source of the contamination. The inside of the filter will rust and give you all kinds of headaches. Change it out as well as the filter on the side of the carb. I just replaced all my fuel lines and vent hoses too. Good Luck.....

salmurai · 06-02-2003, 09:49 PM

My last post should have been for PeterMac. Sorry...

PeterMac · 06-03-2003, 07:56 AM

Pilar, good advise on the tank. I have been planning on increasing my capacity anyway, looks like this is the time to make it happen.

Last night I tore the carb apart, very carefully taking digi pics along the way. Pretty simple device, those old ones are. My neighbor took it to work today to soak in the gunk remover, which there was plenty to remove.

I plan on replacing all hoses as well. I don't have a fuel/water sep, but maybe should be done at this time as well.

Well, I must say I am feeling pretty good about the whole thing now, your posts yesterday gave me the confidence to take this little project on.

Thanks a bunch.

PeterMac

[ 06-03-2003, 08:58 AM: Message edited by: PeterMac ]

Pilar · 06-03-2003, 08:33 AM

PeterMac, you are welcome. I have seen the denial about gas tanks cause guys to spend alot of money.

It's a pretty big deal on most boats to rip out the gas tank but sometimes it is all you can do for one that sat full of water and sour gas for too long.

Now once you get squared away follow a few simple rules and stay out of gas tank hell.

1) Always fill the tank immediately after boating. Keep it full at all times and minimize the air space that causes water condensation problems.

2) Buy the best gas you can find from the same place everytime. A high volume, cut rate station is ideal since the stuff does not sit in an underground tank and rot or get loaded with water.

3) Use a fuel stabilizer. Make this your religion. You never know how long the boat will sit when it is put away. Stabil will make fuel last at least 6 months and up to a year. Not using stabil will result in worthless fuel in as little as 3 months.

4) Install a water separating filter and maintain your filters. I swap out both fuel separator and fuel filter at every oil change. That is monthly or 25 engine hours, whichever comes first.

Mixed fuel like 2 stroke is problematic. You keep the boat full and the gas starts to go away because it sat too long. In the 4 cycle world just burn the fuel in a old car or something.

What can you do with spoiled 2 stroke fuel?

Fuel and the common sense to manage it is fairly cheap. Recovering from loss of power at sea or a boat full of sour gas in the driveway is not cheap.

You can get out of the car and walk away when it craps out. I would not recommend that when in your boat.