More bad news for the fishing community

edsr · 05-15-2003, 10:21 AM

By now fisherman who listen to the news will be aware of a new study conducted by the same scientist that predicted the cod fish collapsed.

His predictions, supported by historical data indicate that the large predatory fish are in serious decline.

SEE PILAR'S MATE POST BELOW FOR CORRECT LINK

I would like to hear your comments.

edsr

[ 05-15-2003, 03:33 PM: Message edited by: edsr ]

Beer Waggin · 05-15-2003, 10:26 AM

I saw something about this on CNN yesterday while eating lunch with a friend. I didn't get to listen in to much, but they also listed tuna and halibut on their list as well.

Taylor's viewpoint · 05-15-2003, 10:26 AM

Huh?

PeterMac · 05-15-2003, 10:45 AM

edsr, can you please correct that link, all I get is a picture of a coast guard boat???

Pete

OceanBlue · 05-15-2003, 10:57 AM

I think this is the one he was referring to: CNN

edsr · 05-15-2003, 12:59 PM

Thank you Pilar's Mate.

It's the first time that I have tried to send a link. Guess I haven't done it right yet.

I will try to make a correction.

edsr

craigc · 05-15-2003, 02:46 PM

I saw the 5 minute topic on T.V. and it reminded me of the movie with Charleton Heston with "Soilent Green".. food made for the mass population from 'older folks'... I believe this is what happens when the human species thinks our natural resources are unlimited, and their attitude is 'every-man-for-himself'.... I'd like to know what a person, or a group of people can do to change things before we have to eat only chicken and beef... get more involved with politics, and become a major donator ??? I'm no genius... anyone have a good suggestion ?? maybe we can march down the middle of Portland and stop a few cars... I don't think mailing a letter to our legistlative representatives are going to get noticed...

Beer Waggin · 05-15-2003, 03:52 PM

They had a special on PBS a few months back that talked about this very same thing. It was mainly talking about the east coast fishery and how the creation of drag nets had wiped out total fisheries. They kicked around the Pacific Ocean fishery too.
The said a lot of the problem had to do with the increase in the world's population and how the ocean basically just can't keep up.
Technology also has a lot to do with it. Being able to see the bottom of the ocean with sonar obviously increases your chances along with charts and plotters.
I'm sure the day will come when everything has a limited season.

OceanBlue · 05-15-2003, 05:13 PM

The ocean in all its vast bounty is still a natural resource that can be depleted. If you think about it, isn't it the source of the only wild food we market? Why wouldn't it suffer from being over exploited?

Do I think it is as bad as they think? Probably not... but who's to say? I think that areas can be overfished and that we do indeed need to be concerned about the balance.

How many of you have seen "Coral Reefs" at the Omnimax theater? It's a must see. And a good example of the chain required to maintain a balance.

On the other hand, it could be said that change isn't necessarily bad, just different. That's something to think about, too. Over the history of the world, entire species have either adapted or died. We still have abundance through it all... one way or another. I guess it comes down to whether you want to preserve beautiful coral reefs or if you're happy with cockroaches. :tongue:

WildHawg · 05-15-2003, 05:15 PM

Back up the truck--we are being mislead by idiot scientists who blow things out of proportion. Take Dr. Ransom (The Truth) Myers:

"Humans have always been very good at killing big animals," Myers said. "Ten thousand years ago, with just some pointed sticks, humans managed to wipe out the woolly mammoth, saber tooth tigers, mastodons and giant vampire bats. The same could happen in the oceans."

He earned a PHD? Maybe a "Piled Higher and Deeper" degree. Man did not wipe out the Mega Fauna (see above). In fact, at least in N.A., they were likely all gone by 10,000 BP. We (archaeologists) find VERY little evidence of ANY Mega Faunal in association with artifacts/human habitation. While it is clear that people on the continents of Europe and Asia did hunt these creatures extensively, it is an accepted fact that
climatic change (end of the Wisconsin Glacier Period) created changes in local flora and fauna which led to the extinction of Mega Fauna in N.A., Europe, and Asia. No matter where we look, we cannot support and extinction theories based on human causes--at least until VERY recently.
As for the sharpened stick crap...ah...no Doc.
Even those "primitive" people had enough sense to tip their spears and atlatl's with projectile points.
The point is, we cannot be mislead by idiot "Doctors" who place bold faced lies in front of us to get those reactionaries to bite and decide that Mankind is the source of all the worlds problems.
I'd bet you anything that he knows better, but he also knows that most people are not critical thinkers, and will accept whatever pablum is offered up for the day as the truth.
Seek out the truth people. I have no doubt that we have overfished our oceans--but let's not jump to conclusions based on a pack of lies thrown out by someone claiming to be a scientist.

fisher-price · 05-15-2003, 08:04 PM

well I tried to hold my tongue and let this slide but I cannot.

Each and every one of has seen the decline in the natual spepcies in our respective area. I remember when I as a kid the deer literally lined the side of every forest road. I remember seeing log trucks that only had one log on it becase of the size so where are all those deer and giat logs. On and on and on.

Now if you look at the technological advances the the human race has made you will be able to see how easily it can deplete the natural resources.

Wildhawg do you think the decline in the whale population was due to clmatic change? Do you think the passenger pigeons exteniction was due to natural forces?

I do not think so. Their extiction was due to man and man alone! through technolocial advances such as the flint projectile point and the atlatl's, long lines, super trawl nets, factory ships, industrial polution, high market prices and man's inate greed make the posiblitiy of the extinction of giant fish very possible. When a Giant Tuna bring tens of thousands of dollars on the market block they are going to hunted to extinction. Man has never been able to stop himself from taking advantage of the resources available. And I tuely belive that we, man, has fished beyond the resources.

Sorry for jumping in but I just had to share my two cents.

f-p

fisher-price · 05-15-2003, 08:07 PM

sorry about the double post!!!!

WildHawg · 05-16-2003, 05:35 AM

Whoa there Spin Doctor--where in my post did you get this idea?
"Wildhawg do you think the decline in the whale population was due to clmatic change? Do you think the passenger pigeons exteniction was due to natural forces?"
I believe I conceded that we HAVE caused extinctions in the very recent (last 200 years is a drop in the bucket ya know).
You should do a bit more research before you jump me. I am 42 years old, and have lived in rural Oregon all my life, and I don't remember the gravel eating deer lining the roads, though I do remember the one log loads you're talking about.
Ironically, it may be this lack of new clearcuts that has significantly contributed to our lower deer populations.
My point above was not that man doesn't play a role in the extinction of some species--we clearly do.
My point was that we can't be reactionaries--believing everything we read or hear in the news.
Memory is a great tool, but you have to understand why things have changed, and the deer populations are NOT down due to increased hunting pressure. Do your research, and you'll find that deer hunting has far fewer participants than it did when I was a kid. Sooo...must be some other reason huh?
I too am concerned about our planet. I am also concerned that as a society, we no longer use our brains to figure things out. Instead we rely on the media to do our thinking for us. This is a grave mistake people.
Knowledge is power.

OceanBlue · 05-16-2003, 06:23 AM

So WH - when you complete your research on the ocean's populations of fish, let us know what you find, okay? I'm sure we'd all love to do exhaustive research and data collection ourselves, but vewwwwy few of us have the means to do that. (as in no one I know)

If you don't think this report is sufficient cause for concern, please find us a resource that will refute it, okay?

When are you going to see Coral Reef with me? My treat. John hasn't seen it yet either and I'd LOVE to see it again. :grin: Hey, maybe we can make it a Salty Dogs field trip?

deefly · 05-16-2003, 06:42 AM

Well, I just had to check this one out! And it seems to me you both have a point. When I heard the report, I CERTAINLY DIDNT BELIEVE IT AT FACE!
BUT.....on the other hand, its cause for concern. If anyone thinks the world is goint to change its ways.....you are wrong! those fish are gone. Our country cant do it alone! And this admin is loathe to do anything of the sort! I guess all were left with is "think globally, act locally"
Capitalism is a wonderful thing (no joke here), but it often destroys EVERYTHING in its path.
Lets hope for better days ahead!

OceanBlue · 05-16-2003, 07:15 AM

deefly - I definitely doubt the number. Part of me cannot conceive of the human race reducing the population of these fish by NINETY percent. Part of me realizes that I just don't want to believe it.

I do realize that there are lies, dang (self-edit) lies and statistics. I think I have to apply some of that to this report and consider that perhaps what it really means is that 50% of these fish are gone. Okay... Now is there still cause for concern? Yes. Does that mean I'm going to stop fishing for them? No. Does that mean I'm going to do my part in supporting efforts to stop the things that have the most impact on the stocks? You bet. When selective fishing methods are the only ones used world-wide and there is no more by-catch, I think maybe then I'll stop worrying.

skein · 05-16-2003, 07:25 AM

Knowing that my boot will fit in my mouth, I'd like to go on record as saying I don't buy it.

Yes, it is possible for things like this to happen, and yes, mankind has the technology to do it (freezer/factory ships, drag nets, sonar, gps, etc) but we also have the ability to manage the resource and limit the take and ancillary carnage.

I think the warning is timely. I don't think the sky is falling.

Skein

WildHawg · 05-16-2003, 07:57 AM

Jen, unfortunately, I don't have the time to do more than a cursory overview of the actual decline of predatory fish populations. Give me a day or 2, and I will post more information.
As a researcher, it is incumbent that one goes into any endeavor with an open mind. I will not look for evidence to support more high seas slaughter (woops, that's a litlle biased), nor will I believe inflammatory ignorant PHD types like "Ransom" who put bold faced lies into print to create a fake panic and support his cause.
The important thing here is to do any amount of reading you can to learn more about issues which make you passionate. A Google search would likely turn up hundreds of hits.
Critical thinking is the key, we cannot accept information just because it is in print.
If I do have a liberal bend Jen, it is towards the environment and any of Gods creatures which might be in peril of extinction. There you have it--I'm a liberal wacko greenie :shocked: ...no, not really. I just don't fit into boxes very well.

[ 05-16-2003, 09:04 AM: Message edited by: WildHawg ]

OceanBlue · 05-16-2003, 08:14 AM

WH - there ya go. Let's hang out in the bag, cuz I just won't fit into a box, either.

I'll be looking forward to seeing what you come up with. I've not ever read anything that would suggest that there should be no cause for concern.

Balance, my friend, balance...

Lepper · 05-16-2003, 09:18 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by fisher-price:
I remember when I as a kid the deer literally lined the side of every forest road. I remember seeing log trucks that only had one log on it becase of the size so where are all those deer and giat logs. On and on and on.

f-p

<font size="2" face="verdana,arial,helv">I STILL see those one Log, Log trucks Everyday go through my town!! And the deer population? It hasn't declined. Pushed further back from the roads and cities yes, But they are still there lining the roads eating the grass from the side of them.

OceanBlue · 05-16-2003, 09:25 AM

Cool! I'm moving to Bandon!

corrirod · 05-16-2003, 10:37 AM

Alright folks, let's get this topic off the Salty Dog board. These types of topics are why I have to stay away from the "Life in General" forum. This is the first topic we've had on this forum that has created a debate. The topic is valid but the arguing is not. Take the article for what it's worth, do your own research and make your own decisions as to it's validity.

All in favor of keeping the debates to another forum say "Arrrr".(that's Salty Dog talk for "I")

Fishplay · 05-16-2003, 01:15 PM

I saw it. Do I think it's been exagerated. Yes. Am I glad it was written. Yes.

I'm with you Corrirod on not wanting this to turn into LIG.

However; I think Salty Dogs should encourage fisheries education and activisim.

Education comes with debate. Lets just all be very careful to be respectful of each others opinions. Keep the tone down and limit our vesting to mental and not emotional.

Lets remain curtious and respecful even to the scientists we disagree with.

When we are passionate about our beliefs we sometimes can incite others without that being our intention.

If we self moderate that shouldn't happen. Ask yourself how others will interpret your post before you hit the reply button.

All this of coarse is just my humble opinion.

fisher-price · 05-16-2003, 05:43 PM

WH, my opinion is just that and no more. I had no intention of attacking you at all. Through debate, sharing of ideas, listening to others, research, and open minds solutions are found for community problems.

My point is that was man inherently destroys what he often desires most through ignorance, greed and technology.

As to the deer and trees, they may still be there but they have been pushed back from their natural habitat by road building and clear cuts. Trees are way smaller now than 30 years ago when I was raised in Roseburg. They have been over harvested much like every thing mans sets his eye on.

To all, I agee that everything must be taken with a grain of salt and to find your own truth you must seek it out for yourself.

I did not intend to insult or attack anyone or their ideas.

Pardon me if I did.

Respectfully,

f-p

skein · 05-16-2003, 11:19 PM

Corrirod,

[img]graemlins/applause.gif[/img]

Skein

Mr. Fisherman · 05-18-2003, 04:03 PM

AAAAARRRRRrrr, Take this outside!
Sombody open a window... Arrrr

OceanBlue · 05-18-2003, 05:12 PM

Oh PULEEZE! If you don't want to see it, close your eyes.

I think all the salty dogs need to be aware of what's happening here. You are ALL going to lose your fishing rights and you don't care to hear about it? Hello? Anyone listening?

Do you really think that the outcome of this study will shut down commercial fishing? Not in our lifetime.

Do you realize what the first thing is that will be under attack?

YOUR RIGHTS. The writing is on the wall.

'Nuff Sed.

OUT

05-18-2003, 06:24 PM

Some fish populations are on the verge of a crash (Atlantic Bluefin and swordfish).
Find out where the information for this article came from before judging it.

WildHawg · 05-19-2003, 04:39 AM

Howdy Keta,
In my mind, the article becomes immediately suspect when they use some guy like "Dr. Ransom Myers" who puts boldfaced lies out there in order to mislead us.
I KNOW our oceans are not the ecosystems they once were, and I know they need help, but they do a disservice to the cause by citing "Dr's" who don't know truth from fairy tale.
A fair amount of the info came from ol' Rancid--er...Ransom, and that's enough to question the rest of the article, and put it in my inflammatory BS file.
Good meeting you in Newport.
Talk at ya soon,
Charlie.