We are not understood

Pilar · 05-13-2003, 06:25 AM

http://www.ifish.net/ubb/ultimatebb....c;f=1;t=024913

All I wanted to do was share my numbers and make the thing idiot resistant. Where did I go wrong?

Steelie Steve · 05-13-2003, 06:41 AM

Pilar,
Don't let the goings on over at the main board get you down. I will honestly say that I don't frequent the Salty dogs board very often for the pure fact that I only fish on Big Blue once every couple of years on a charter.

The way I see it, there is a huge difference between sharing a specific spot on a small river (say the Columbia) and on the ocean. I see this new board as a place to share the accumulated knowledge of Ifishers with the specific users of that resource.

I don't want to know or need to know GPS Coords on the ocean. My driftboat won't get me there anyway.

Good luck with the new forum. I hope it works out for you salty dogs....

Steve

Tagster · 05-13-2003, 06:43 AM

You can't please all the people all the time. I think that people who are fairly new to this board (like registering in March) probably need to check your history before casting aspersions upon something you are trying to do.

I truly believe that there is no malintent here and you are only trying to help people share information the safest way possible. If other people can not see that, then they are the worse off.

[img]graemlins/applause.gif[/img]

Tag

Miss B Haven · 05-13-2003, 06:46 AM

Not surprised John- kind of a normal main board discussion. Some folks will get it and some won't. You watch- the ones that are really going to be raising heck will be folks who have never even fished the big blue and proly have no desire to, they just like to complain and fuss.
We could just take this whole thing offline I guess and kill the debate. Now that would be a zipperlip club wouldn't it! [img]graemlins/berry.gif[/img] [img]graemlins/stupid.gif[/img]

[img]graemlins/icon_argue.gif[/img]
I'll share any info I got with you guys, no matter what happens.

Albacore Tuna Captain · 05-13-2003, 06:49 AM

You didn't go wrong Pilar, it's just that so many people are suspicious of any attempt to desiminate information in any controlled way. It's probably best to just agree to do it on personal email. Here's what I'd do. Get everyones email who wants to share and send what ever gps #'s you want. That will give those "conspiracy" plot thinkers something to really talk about. It's too bad that those who really don't need the info are so willing to suggest that there is an unethical or under handed tone to the board.

Ignore them! Just keep fishing! :smile:

Bait O' Eggs · 05-13-2003, 07:24 AM

There is going to the part of the crowd that wants to whine no matter what you do.

Too many people have been complaining for so long it just comes natural to them.

When the gills are green, and the puke starts to fly, you can tell a lot about a persons character. I took Otolith out to sea last year, trying to get him into a nook, he has a fish on and has his head over the side of the boat chumming, with a smile, all at the same time. He wanted no part of heading to land. It would have been easy for him to snivel and complain about wanting to go in, but he reached down deep and told me with actions he was always welcome on my boat.

I dont see the GPS coord thing working on ifish in the long run (please prove me wrong). Ifish is open to all, and there will always be those that think they should get something for nothing, and they wont be participating but still complaining they dont have access to the info. There are plenty of places where the GPS coords can be stored and shared on the web, if on ifish great, if it has to be someplace else so the whiners wont complain because they dont know about it, so be it. The Salty dogs will share and take care of each other,

"When you cross the bar, you cant hear the whine"

Mr. Fisherman · 05-13-2003, 07:25 AM

Tar, Feathers and a rail for all the nay sayers. I'll be taking notes and deligating seats acordingly.
I have plenty of numbers already thanks largely in part to my brothers here. Some of those I am sworn not to share and I will uphold my word but those I have discovered for myself or have permission to share I will offer to those who can and do offer the same, period.
There is nothing wrong with what we are doing. It is a free service and it is reserved for ACTIVE PARTICIPANTS, if you don't like it I guess you are entitled to a full refund and the use of the door. Don't let the door hit ya where the good lord split ya.
O.K., that's entirely enough of that tripe, geeze, somebody open a window.....

Albacore Tuna Captain · 05-13-2003, 07:28 AM

RIGHT ON BOE! [img]graemlins/applause.gif[/img] [img]graemlins/applause.gif[/img] [img]graemlins/applause.gif[/img] Leave that annoying sound behind and enjoy what God has given us!

rojo · 05-13-2003, 07:29 AM

Hey Pilar: Don't worry, just keep up what you have been doing it is very much appreciated even though I'm over on the main board more than here.The Big Blue one is the place to be when one gets the chance.....Roger

Pilar · 05-13-2003, 07:32 AM

"And from the sea each man gathers new hope" Marko Ramius, Commander, Red October.

The bar does sort them out .. doesn't it?

Pitch Pocket · 05-13-2003, 07:57 AM

John, this is a good idea and your efforts are appreciated. I think the protest is an uniformed whine and is not deserving of the attention it is getting.

Your intentions are well documented and if the agitators had read up on the issue before spouting off, we may have avoided the wringing of hands and gnashing of teeth. Let's make this thing work. Let me know if I can help.

CrazyFish · 05-13-2003, 08:06 AM

John,

Don't give up on a great idea!!! Your doing a great job so far even though there seems to be a battle.

BOE was right there are other places on the web to do a password protected data base if it comes to that (I would hate to have to see that type of seperation) and I'm sure that someone around here would know how to set that up.

There are places on the web at this time. Check this out http://www.greengrouper.com/gps/ .

The Fishing Geek · 05-13-2003, 08:13 AM

I tossed you an idea in email, Pilar.

South Paw · 05-13-2003, 08:32 AM

Pilar,

Your a mean mean man and I'ma gonna cry. :depressed: Man! did you hurt some fealings or what? Anyway don't sweat it. Call me on my cell please, it died and I got a new one but with no numbers on it.

Tacklebuster · 05-13-2003, 08:33 AM

John,
There will always be haters in the group. Let em hate is all I can say. If the guys on the main board want to grumble about it, let them. If it's not about this it will be about something else. I am a "pup" in the learning stage. For those that want to run with the big dogs they can join the litter as well. Most wont because it is much easier to sit and whine about something rather than put your time in and earn your wings. Besides, in another month most will be arguing on another thread about someone being zipperlipped in the estuary chasing sturgeon and then Frenchman's Bar for URB's. You got a good thing going, let's keep it that way

Paddlefish · 05-13-2003, 09:31 AM

Sorry, Pilar, but you overlooked two everyday conditions -- which surprises me, based on my months-long reading of your preparedness:

1) No good deed goes unpunished.

2) There's no such thing as idiot resistant, as idiots are so ingenious.

Keep up the good work -- and the good communications. As soon as I build my halibut canoe I'll be making up some of those tuna rigs you illustrated and I'll see you out there. :grin:

Birdnest · 05-13-2003, 09:35 AM

I think the reason this is so shocking to the main board is that they don't have the same level of sharing that is found here on the Salty Dog forum. If you looked at it in a per capita analysis of the two forums of how many people actually fish together, shake hands at the end of the day, and make plans to do it again soon the argument would make itself.

I honestly believe there is not a person around that if they approached the "insiders" in a sincere way, wouldn't be warmly welcomed and helped to the fullest.

There is no free lunch, it is a potluck. Some people bring the cups, some people bring the lazagna.

Birdnest

MikeT · 05-13-2003, 10:11 AM

Pilar,
Where you went wrong was the name you chose for the forum (Private GPS Forum) and the place you chose to locate it (right in front of everyone that logs on). With that you assured yourself at least some controversy. As you discovered, a lot of folks aren't going to look beyond the name before deciding there's some kind of conspiracy unfolding.

BTW, I don't fish offshore and don't have any heartburn about what you're doing. Hope you guys work it out. Might be easier if you did it out of sight of the mob.

Mike

WaterDog · 05-13-2003, 12:08 PM

I'm with Mel.

[img]graemlins/lurk.gif[/img]

blast and cast · 05-13-2003, 12:12 PM

I will chime in with my 0.02 cents, for what it is worth. I plan on submitting my Tillamook GPS numbers when I get home this evening, if this allows me to enter the GPS site so be it, if not so be it.

If one feels that this is an "elite" group, well.... tough. This is not a us vs. them debate. Pilar is trying to have a sharing of knowledge within a group of people that frequent the salt.

Pilar and others that are setting this up- I have my own web page, if necessary you guys can contact me and we may be able to set up a password access on my page, not sure if it will work, but we can discuss it.

Its amazing how many people like to whine and cry on a FREE web site when they feel that they are not going to benefit.

Joey

Myles · 05-13-2003, 12:16 PM

drhall, you truelly are missing the point. I've attended some of the salty dogs get togethers and it's totally open and shared info all around. Locations, techniques, gear, even bringing in smoked tuna from the last trip.
John has posted tutorials on using a GPS, even a "poker run" based on GPS waypoints on the river to help anyone interested in learning or testing their skills.
This is NOT an exclusionary group. The ocean is not a playground for just anyone. The idea of posting waypoints to qualify sounds like just one of many ideas being tossed out for discussion (not sure I agree with it). The point I percieve is that they really don't want to be responsible for some rookie, not knowing when to cross the bar, maybe no VHF, not considering the forecast or when to say "not today" after driving two hours to get there.
There are sinkings and drownings every year by experienced boaters and even guides. It would be irresponsible to encourage just anyone to jump in a boat with a handheld GPS and venture out. I can certainly see your point, it is exclusionary, but if someone is really interested all they have to do start posting and hookup with some of "the dogs".

myles

drhall99 · 05-13-2003, 12:20 PM

Corrirod,

Did I realy make the division, or is it already there. You can see the information I presented. Look through the threads regarding this issue. I was not the first to mention the rift. Not even close. It has been said in the Salty Dog forum MANY times.

Doug

Fishslayer · 05-13-2003, 12:23 PM

Corrirod, very well put! The salty dogs are of a different breed. Without knowing it first hand it is hard for others to understand. I think it comes down to wanting what you can't have. I for one have the same passion as the group and am happy to have found such a group. One of the main thing that seem to be a major factor is safety. There is no replacment for that. To be able to speed up the learning cure in a safe manner is a key. I would also like to add that I'm still a "salty pup" and seem to have been welcomed aboard with open arms. I don't even live in the same state??? If it's something that you do then you do it. If you don't then you don't. It appears to me that everyone and anyone is welcome ( even guys like me :grin:

) Please don't let a few guys turn a good thing bad.

Pilar · 05-13-2003, 01:23 PM

Quote:

Pilar and anyone interested,

So I tried to gleen the proposed rules for entry to the new board from the post on the Dogs board and from the posts in this thread. Tell me if this looks accurate - I'll also ask questions in parenthesis.

From Pillars posts ( My name is Pilar)

1) Any active treasure chest user must contribute waypoints. Even for another state or part of this state. There will be no keeping score. You give up some of your spots and you can access all the other spots. With the spirit I see in so many Salty Dogs this should be no problem.

2) Casual users or lurkers will not participate.

3) People who exist only as an internet entity will not participate. One of the main reasons for the Tuna meetings is to match faces with names.
(so does this mean that the occasional offshore fisherman will be excluded because he/she can't/doesn't come to the meetings? How will they become a "live entity?)

(wrong, there are many ways to participate, who would not travel a reasonable distance to get on a proven fish killer boat for a basically free guided fishing trip? It happens almost every weekend in my world)

4) The passwords will not be shared with any unauthorized users. They will change frequently and the active users will be notified by email.

5) New fishers may be offerred a 'line of credit' from the waypoint bank. This helps the new guys out and they can be successful right out of the gate. But they will be expected to share what they learn.
(Again, if the new guy only fishes occasionally, how is he/she going to be able to come up with spots worth posting? You all know how much time you spend finding and developing the "spots", what will keep the bulk of the Ifishers from being excluded since they don't spend that kind of time at sea?)
(Once again you are wrong, please read the part you did not quote which I outlined below, slow wwwwww down and read. Don't just find a sentence that seems to prove your point)
From Crabbaits post -

The forum is for ifishers who actively participate in the offshore fishery and who are sharing resources like open seats, gas, tackle, and flotilla security for the information. If you fit that description, you may be able to access the forum.
(This, too, excludes most of the Ifish community. The occasional offshore fisherman - in other words, the guys who need the info the most, will be excluded. I can't comment on the security issue, because I'm not sure what Crabbait is referring to but I bet that very few people on Ifish qualify.)

From Fishplay's post -
It's easy to determine who gets access. All participating Bretheran. As John said; we know who most of us are through the meetings that started as Tunaholics and have now really become ,in general, Salty Dog meetings.
(Seems very limiting to me. Looks like a Tunaholic only party.)

From what I can tell by the above information, there would only be about 15 or twenty people that would be allowed extended access. Some would be able to join for awhile, but would eventually be dropped from the group because they couldn't contribute sufficiently.

(Here you are right, the core of this group is about 20 individuals. Those are the guys I fished with last year. They are the ones who will pass on the knowledge to the new pups as they come to us for initiation into the ways of big blue. By the end of the summer this group will have expanded in size by a great deal, judging by the participation we have seen all winter about 50 more.)

Pilar, I have seen evidence of your generosity on this board repeatedly, as well as many others. I don't doubt your good intentions, either. But try to look at it from an "outsiders" point of view. It looks like a gate in an "exclusive" neighborhood. They are put there to keep the riff-raff out. Your either in the in-crowd or your the riff-raff.
(You would not let a little baby drive a car or push a lawn mower. I would not let any person strange to me and unqualified in my eyes take waypoints for places 30 miles offshore without spending some time getting to know them, their capabilities and experience and thier intentions)

I know that's not what you intended, but that could be the end result if the forum membership rules are not carefully crafted.
Please understand that I am not trying to cry wolf here. I really believe that this exclusionistic stance will create a problem.

( No, No, No, it will prevent the loss of life and injury to anyone who is a legend in their own mind. The ocean punishes mistakes harshly, often with death. )

Just in this thread and on the Dogs board, it's become a main board vs. dogs fight. How can this exclusive forum make the division better?
In the interest of involving everyone, I have posted this to the main forum as well.

Thanks for listening,
Doug
--------------------
If it was just you and me on the water, it would be one too many.
(And then there is your tagline, are you the guy I am talking about? Are you in it just for you? Convince me otherwise)

Ok, lets put this whole deal to bed. What part of I ( that's me Pilar ) am holding myself responsible for your ( That's you, casual boater with my waypoints in your pocket ) safety and well being are you having trouble with?

Quote:

Some rules for membership ... I am open to suggestions and I am soliciting them. In general my aim is to allow the contributing members to share their combined knowledge and with no small convenience. The thing that must be avoided is the plundering of the treasure chest by those who would only take and not contribute to the well being and education of the many. Having said that I think we should take care of the new guys. After all Momma is going to be very much more amenable to requests for boat bucks and kitchen passes when Pappa returns with S.E.G., bloody boat and coolers containing fresh fish like Halibut.

Knowing how to fish is one thing, knowing where to fish is the only thing.

I am quoting myself now, this is weird. You forgot this part in your quote DrHall99. Notice the first bolded statement. These 5 rules are proposed and open to discussion. I am soliciting suggestions .. let me translate .. if you have an idea, lets hear it and debate it's merits and pitfalls.

I am not 'giving' numbers to unscrupulous individuals bent on dragging a trawl net over my favorite reef, internet wierdos or others who lack the humility and common sense to approach the sea as loyal subjects and not viking conquerors. And you can quote me on that. If that is you then tough cookies, no numbers for you.

The requirement that you put something back is a general one that for most of the people I hang out with needs not even be mentioned or explained. I mention it for the rest to whom the idea of 'leave it better than you found it' is a strange concept.

The last point is that we have to take care of the new guys. That means giving access to information like GPS waypoints to people who are just learning. That means offering to go with them in their boat or in mine on their first baby steps into the big blue lake. It means that no questions should go unanswered. It means that if you ask me something and I can answer you, I will. If I can't then we'll find someone who can. If a new guy can operate his boat safely in the ocean am I worried that he will take and not put something back? No. That guy is going to be grateful for the help and advice. He will make it his business to

1) Help the next guy that comes along and
2) Put back way more than he ever took.

Now ... how many people are there who live this and understand it at a very basic level on the Ifish site? How many have even considered fishing on these terms?

I think you miss the point entirely DrHall99. With great knowledge comes even greater responsibility. If I was irresponsible, I would just post the spreadsheet and let Darwin thin out the brain dead and the big headed.

We are breaking new ground here. Join us and be a part of a beautiful thing or go bug someone else with your font slinging. Show up at the dock with rod in hand, ready to learn and grow or watch golf on TV.

Your choice.

Ramstrong · 05-13-2003, 01:35 PM

John,

Looks to me like you've said everything that needs to be said. If people don't get it, it's their loss.

Roy, I like your idea. There's plenty of space available on the net for stuff like this. We could take our ball and play elsewhere.

Jennie@ifish · 05-13-2003, 01:35 PM

Don't make so much of it.
There will always be nay sayers in every crowd.
It's just that the main board has a bigger crowd, and more of them. :smile:
Pilar, you know in your heart what you are doing is good, and so do your dogs. :smile:
You don't have to explain it to anyone but yourself.

Put your head up high, and do what you want. Whether it is on ifish, or not, you have my blessing. :smile:

I'll go change the name of the forum. Or, do you want to take it down until you decide what to do? It's not a problem to quickly put it back up. I'll do that. I'll go take it down. If you need it just call... and let me know what to name it, too, so that it doesn't look as private, or threatening, or whatever.

Jen

Jen

WP · 05-13-2003, 01:46 PM

Thanks Jon, for the patience and the wisdom. Thanks also for your natural teaching and supportive ways. It seems so intuitive that this is not a clique but a way to prevent self distruction and abuse. People who read parts of thiongs and then venture forth are just the ones we need to slow down! Bless you!!!!
WP

Pilar · 05-13-2003, 01:55 PM

I need to have the last word here.

Please notice the way we went about this ... In the open, not hidden on another site. How can you question the intentions of honest men, unconcerned with concealing what they are doing?

Pitch Pocket · 05-13-2003, 01:58 PM

mmmmmmmmmm........golf.

corrirod · 05-13-2003, 02:01 PM

drhall,

Quote:

It has been said in the Salty Dog forum MANY times

If your referring to the fact that people have stated that the Salty Dogs seem more friendly in regards to sharing than the main board then you would be correct but nobody has said it's "us vs. them" because most of "us" are "them" also. We don't ALWAYS fish the salt.

For someone who doesn't even venture into the blue, you sure seem to want to start a debate, or feel slighted by not having access to this information. Why do you feel you deserve access to this information when you don't even post on this forum? Do you have a GPS?

Save your debate for "Life in General". This forum is for people who want or like to fish and boat on the ocean. This forum is for sharing information regarding our favorite playground.

I take it your having trouble getting folks to share inland waypoints? And if you did find some folks willing to share, I certainly wouldn't feel qualified to have access to the list because I haven't done enough inland fishing myself and nor do I have an inclination to do more. I do however feel I've paid my dues on big blue and I've contributed to the betterment of the Salty Dog forum, and I've got the waypoints to share.

What's funny is I'm not sure what you are trying to accomplish with your distaste in this "proposed" new forum? Again, your lack of knowledge regarding the closeness of this group is misleading you. We WILL share contacts, whether on this site, on the water, or somewhere else. If anything you're forcing us to be more "exclusionistic".

There has always been an open invitation to anyone who wants to go play on big blue. I know myself and several Salty Dogs have intentionally invited many "newbies" to ride along with us on these all-depth halibut seasons in order to give them the opportunity to see what we see and hope they enjoy it as much as we do.

If your interested in being a Salty Dog then come aboard. If your just trying to get everybody riled up then you might just get what you asked for.

foxer · 05-13-2003, 02:29 PM

I have been lurking on this board for quite some time now. I have found that all of the 'dogs' are helpfull and more than wiling to share the honeyholes/tips with anybody that asks. Heck, open seats are always posted and sometimes posted for those who have not fished the ocean only!. I myself would love to take up the offers but i need to figure out this seasick thing first.(anybody got a source for scopamine ) :smile: I eventually will be getting a boat and trips out for nearshore bottom fish will be done. I have no question that any of these fine folks will answer any and all questions I have (right idpainter?) Geez, you guys are killing me with all those great tuna stories

Jennie@ifish · 05-13-2003, 02:33 PM

Pilar, you didn't get the last word.
Try again. :smile:

Jen

Pilar · 05-13-2003, 02:42 PM

Yeah, well I'll get down off the hood of the truck and quit shouting anyway.

edsr · 05-13-2003, 02:56 PM

The sun is shining, the winds are fair, and the swells are small - all the rest is just noise.

I think I met some of those people once. I don't have to meet them twice. Life is to short, sweat the big things. Salty Dogs crap bigger than this.

edsr

tailchaser · 05-13-2003, 03:04 PM

I have no problems sharing places with the common users of the salty dogs but when it comes to the main forum, they can suck eggs. [img]graemlins/berry.gif[/img] Count me in on a private time and place where we can compare notes. This is why everytime I fish the rivers every now and then I look around and wish I was back in the ocean.

tc

Miss B Haven · 05-13-2003, 03:16 PM

edsr -

[img]graemlins/applause.gif[/img] [img]graemlins/applause.gif[/img]

Pilar · 05-13-2003, 03:20 PM

Big dogs, Big ????

crabbait · 05-13-2003, 03:29 PM

What you are doing is righteous, John. Don't let small thinking get you down.

45 days and counting...........

[ 05-13-2003, 04:54 PM: Message edited by: crabbait ]

Miss B Haven · 05-13-2003, 03:33 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by crabbait:
45 days and counting...........

Crabbait- you aren't watching the TUNA Channel are you?

crabbait · 05-13-2003, 03:58 PM

Oh yeah, Mel. Englund's has about $300 and I have a few tuna feathers, clones and a bunch of other stuff that I don't know squat about.

Come on Ed, weld, weld, weld....right Skein?

drhall99 · 05-13-2003, 04:09 PM

Somewhere, I am not communicating properly. The point I wanted to make is being lost and instead I seem to be offending people. Well, maybe this will clear things up a little.

First, I want to say that I respect Pilar greatly. I have watched his good works on Ifish and he is definitely a worthy leader/mentor. I never was my goal to get everyone riled up, although, that was the end result. Again, I must not be communicating correctly. I have been told to read between the lines of this issue. I always thought that what was written on the line was more important, so I focused on that, not Pilars intent, which was where I made a mistake. I still have concerns about the new forum, but I should have communicated them directly to Pilar and Skein instead of posting them on the board. Regardless, Pilar, I apologize for offending you. It was not my goal.

Thanks,
Doug

Slow Roll · 05-13-2003, 04:16 PM

You know, some people would complain if they were hung with a new rope. [img]graemlins/icon_argue.gif[/img]

The ONLY think I expect out of this group is their continued camraderie and willingness to help. I DON'T expect to have access to a grundle of GPS #'s that I have no use for yet. Mainly because even if I did own a boat, I would rather earn the respect of my fellow dog's and be given the chance to contribute instead of expecting a free handout because I post to this site.

I spend too much time working and not enough time fishing. Story of my life.

I don't have the time to worry about a few pot stirrers.

Pilar, don't change a thing in what your doing. When finished, this will be a great source of information that will be very valuable to many people. I would like to help in any way possible.

Paul B.
Salty Pup

Pilar · 05-13-2003, 08:42 PM

DrHall99, Ok fair enough. I welcome your criticism, pointers and concerns. Please Email me and we'll discuss them. Don't expect much for the next four days though because I plan to be about 30 miles offshore during the daylight hours of 3 of them. We'll continue this discussion next week.

We are not offended, just puzzled.

Hung with a new rope .... Roflmao

Miss B Haven · 05-13-2003, 08:49 PM

drhall99 - Humility :blush: and admitting when you MAY :whazzup: have been wrong is something that will get you far on this particular board.

The Pacific Ocean teaches this to us all, one way or another. Some soon enough, others too late. This board is all about soon enough. :smile:
Can I stick it way out and say... welcome aboard? :smile:

Ever catch a TUNA before it was in the can?

[ 05-13-2003, 09:54 PM: Message edited by: Miss B Haven ]

Mr. Fisherman · 05-13-2003, 10:46 PM

EdSr,
I love you man...

Quote:

Salty Dogs crap bigger than this

[img]graemlins/applause.gif[/img]

[img]graemlins/applause.gif[/img]

Tomorrow I will breath fresh salt air and put away thoughts of this triffling dispair
For in the Pacific Ocean we will fare
With BENT RODS for those who dare.... :grin:

I am looking forward to being out there sharing what little I know with my brothers and helping any way that I can to make their experience better.

See you on the water where there are no PCs, electrical or political..... :tongue:

Mr. Fisherman · 05-13-2003, 10:52 PM

By the way. For those who may not have the history of how the Salty Dogs came to be...
We started as a rag tag group on another make shift site where we communicated via email and telephone. Jen was kind enough to allow Pilar to start this sub board and I believe the main board has benefited from the traffic produced by those of us who contribute here. We are ALL Ifishers here. There is something here for EVERYONE but NOT EVERYTHING IS FOR EVERYONE. You think about it next time you are at the grocery store... You leave a lot more on the shelves than you put in the cart. Just food for thought for the capable.
Enough said, shut up and fish.... :grin:
I now climb off the front porch of my boat and return you to.... The fishing channel... All Fishing All the Time!

Hummingbird · 05-13-2003, 11:01 PM

Pilar,
What you do here is one of the most noble things going on on this site. You CAN'T please all the people all the time,but , you CAN PLEASE SOME OF THE PEOPLE SOME OF THE TIME. (Bob Dylan). I see that almost everyday from you. If the nay sayers want to be that way .Let em. You guys "Kicked Butt" last week as you always do .Way to go

Just letting you know there are alot of people who look up to what you do. There isn't to many like you around. Tight Lines, Bent Rods and Happy Harpooning!!!

Tom
P.S. you got Mail.

Beer Waggin · 05-13-2003, 11:18 PM

I'd keep working on this deal. The attitude of some on the main board is the reason I rarely visit it anymore. Some will see this as a contest and some will see it for what it's worth. Let them bash the idea all they want, we have our fun and they have theirs, we just choose to have our fun as tighter nit group. Sharing ideas, technics and spots will let us all have more fun in a shorter amount of time and in a safer manner.
Keep the faith Brotha!

drhall99 · 05-13-2003, 11:39 PM

Pilar and anyone interested,

So I tried to gleen the proposed rules for entry to the new board from the post on the Dogs board and from the posts in this thread. Tell me if this looks accurate - I'll also ask questions in parenthesis.

From Pillars posts
1) Any active treasure chest user must contribute waypoints. Even for another state or part of this state. There will be no keeping score. You give up some of your spots and you can access all the other spots. With the spirit I see in so many Salty Dogs this should be no problem.

2) Casual users or lurkers will not participate.

3) People who exist only as an internet entity will not participate. One of the main reasons for the Tuna meetings is to match faces with names.
(so does this mean that the occasional offshore fisherman will be excluded because he/she can't/doesn't come to the meetings? How will they become a "live entity?)

4) The passwords will not be shared with any unauthorized users. They will change frequently and the active users will be notified by email.

5) New fishers may be offerred a 'line of credit' from the waypoint bank. This helps the new guys out and they can be successful right out of the gate. But they will be expected to share what they learn.
(Again, if the new guy only fishes occasionally, how is he/she going to be able to come up with spots worth posting? You all know how much time you spend finding and developing the "spots", what will keep the bulk of the Ifishers from being excluded since they don't spend that kind of time at sea?)

From Crabbaits post -

The forum is for ifishers who actively participate in the offshore fishery and who are sharing resources like open seats, gas, tackle, and flotilla security for the information. If you fit that description, you may be able to access the forum.
(This, too, excludes most of the Ifish community. The occasional offshore fisherman - in other words, the guys who need the info the most, will be excluded. I can't comment on the security issue, because I'm not sure what Crabbait is referring to but I bet that very few people on Ifish qualify.)

From Fishplay's post -
It's easy to determine who gets access. All participating Bretheran. As John said; we know who most of us are through the meetings that started as Tunaholics and have now really become ,in general, Salty Dog meetings.
(Seems very limiting to me. Looks like a Tunaholic only party.)

From what I can tell by the above information, there would only be about 15 or twenty people that would be allowed extended access. Some would be able to join for awhile, but would eventually be dropped from the group because they couldn't contribute sufficiently.

Pilar, I have seen evidence of your generosity on this board repeatedly, as well as many others. I don't doubt your good intentions, either. But try to look at it from an "outsiders" point of view. It looks like a gate in an "exclusive" neighborhood. They are put there to keep the riff-raff out. Your either in the in-crowd or your the riff-raff. I know that's not what you intended, but that could be the end result if the forum membership rules are not carefully crafted.
Please understand that I am not trying to cry wolf here. I really believe that this exclusionistic stance will create a problem. Just in this thread and on the Dogs board, it's become a main board vs. dogs fight. How can this exclusive forum make the division better?
In the interest of involving everyone, I have posted this to the main forum as well.

Thanks for listening,
Doug

corrirod · 05-13-2003, 11:51 PM

Doug,

Quote:

Please understand that I am not trying to cry wolf here. I really believe that this exclusionistic stance will create a problem. Just in this thread and on the Dogs board, it's become a main board vs. dogs fight. How can this exclusive forum make the division better?

It was never a "main board vs. dogs fight" until you made it one.

No new or infrequent ocean fisher has ever been excluded by the Salty Dogs, nor will they ever. In fact we intentionally try to have meetings in order to speed the learning curve of anyone that is new to ocean fishing. By becoming an active participant on the Salty Dog board and expressing your desire to fish on big blue, you are respected and helped on your quest with complete open arms. The minute this stops happening will be the same minute I remove myself from this forum.

Nobody is stopping you from starting another GPS forum from the main board so have at it and stop trying to stir the pot!

Miss B Haven · 05-13-2003, 11:52 PM

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