Aft Downriggers Don't Make Sense!

[Stryker]

Okay,
You guys are the smartest fishermen on the planet. So, I need someone to explain to me why everyone says to mount downriggers as far aft as possible. This doesn’t make sense to me.

Now…fish-on. The downrigger aft is now in the way of fighting the fish, the wire and ball are a concern turning, backing up, ECT. The aft downrigger needs to be reeled up and out of the way quickly.

The forward downrigger is not as much in the way as I see it. Farther from the motors, less likely to be in the way of people in the back of the boat. If you need to bring the forward downrigger up the person doing that will not be competing with the person fighting the fish for the back of the boat. The person reeling the forward downrigger up and the downrigger itself are behind the person fighting the fish. The person fighting the fish has the back of the boat to him/her self.

Please explain the overwhelming opinion of most fishermen that downriggers are always mounted aft.
[img]graemlins/stupid.gif[/img]

[ 04-23-2003, 10:17 AM: Message edited by: Stryker ]

It helps to keep your gear out of your prop.

[Stryker]

How, when aft downriggers are far closer to the motors?

[fish assassin]

My downriggers are mounted on the side of the boat about 1/3 of the length
from the back ... If I am fishing deep and/or in a lot of current, the ball
hangs WAY back. Ever have stainless steel wire wrapped in your prop?? NOT
a lot of fun!!

Don't ask me how I know this! :grin: :shocked: :grin: :shocked:

-assAssin=

[Soft Plastic]

Stryker

Looking at your boat from the top down imagine the wires going sideways during a turn, or when operating in a cross current. The wires will be swept back some up as much as 30 degrees. They may move sideways 10 or 15 degrees. Now if your riggers are mounted forward the blowback puts the wire near the prop instead of behing it. Get it?

[Orca]

As mentioned above, the ball/line/fish gear swing back (maybe up to 45 degrees or more), so either your downrigger line gets in the prop, your fish line gets in the prop (before or after strike), your downrigger line scraps along side your boat when doing quick turns, etc....

[craigc]

...bringing the downrigger farther aft works when you have a longer boom arm on the downrigger, acting as an outrigger... and that's the assumption used in the recommendation, I believe.. that's good marketing to get you to spend more money for a longer SS tube...

[Mark Mc]

Hey Mark, are you talking about running the wire straight off the davits, or with a line stop & spreading them out with the poles? I was under the impression you had the standard commercial setup, a lot more capable than sport downriggers. Also, do you have outdrives or straight shafts?

With sport downriggers, it seems there is this tradeoff. If you're fishing shallow, then sure they could be mounted forward with little problem on the turns. But with a lot of wire out and only a 10 or 12 lb ball, you'd be asking for trouble.

p.s. Mark/Assassin....how about when two wires from the same side get tangled (like the deep & the float)? The mother of all messes :depressed:

[Miss B Haven]

Besides the wire in the prop problem. Fishing fairly shallow with the riggers up front would just be asking for the line (fishing line) to get under the boat when it popped- either with or without a fish on it.
Just getting the gear out might be interesting too! Station waggon effect (or a turn at the wrong moment) might suck your bait right around the transom into the motor!

[greenbuttskunk]

I've fished with riggers for years and have always used them near the back. not at the read corners, but about in line with the splash well.
Commonly I have a 24" boom, but have used 36" too.
Never had any problems personally. I like to have them where I can get to them most conveniently. I don' fish commercially though, and usually fish from 15-100 feet. When I was fishing down at hammond in years past, I had a pretty sweet deal. With silvers, I kept trolling with a one rigger after another released with a fish. If you play the fish right you can usually land it w/o loosing the posibility of getting another on the other rigger. Probably sounds risky to others, but it worked for me, and put me into a few doubles .I like to keep as much gear in the water as I can at all times. You can go to neutral also, let the gear drop, the continue as long as you don't have too much line behind the ball, not needed anyway in most salmon cases.

[Pilar]

I guess I've just been lucky or not fished deep much. I have one sport troll 6' from the transom with a 24" boom. When the second one goes on real soon, it will be in the mirror image spot on the other side. In a small boat there are not many choices on where.

Something not mentioned here is to make sure the rod holder is farther aft than the downrigger and can be pointed at 90 degrees to the side of the boat. This prevents most line wraps around the downrigger wire.

[Stryker]

Calculating depth of weight, lbs of weight, speed angel (drag), side angle (current, wind slip or turns), and depth and distance of prop.

Sorry, but no matter how I run it through a trigonometry table the aft downriggers (mathematically) are FAR more likely to end up in the prop. Mostly at slower speeds and in sharp turns.

Now before you say it, I understand mathematics and trig tables are not in the water and the dynamics of a boat on the water is very different. However the trigonometry table calculations are overwhelmingly one sided (if I am doing it correctly).

As far as the cables rubbing on the side of the boat I calculated a longer boom length to handle that (30”).

[ 04-23-2003, 01:11 PM: Message edited by: Stryker ]

[DriftR]

Stryker,
Why would you need to back up when your downriggers are deployed? Man, you are talking trouble here. I can honestly say that I don't remember the last time we ever used reverse. Oh, maybe once in a while to dodge those derelict crab pot lines. Actually, like Assassin says above, your in trouble if you turn to tight. Not only that but those little burrs that poke out of that damaged wire allow you to grip that wire much easier. You get those from that prop rub. But then again, if your lucky that prop just cuts you clean and off to the deep goes that 30 or 40pound cannon ball. No biggey, they sell them all the time at Englunds.

Stryker,
Mount them where you want but do a temporary job. You'll end up moving them back. This is from over 20 years of downrigger experience.

Mine are 10" from the transom. Pilar's is about as far forward as they can be and still not cause problems. Depending on your boat length and width I would suggest 1'-5' from your stern.

[Stryker]

So, all I need to do is make sure the prop blades are sharpened up so they cut the cable clean?

I'm sure I will mount them aft I just had to ask.

You know... Question everything!

[ 04-23-2003, 01:18 PM: Message edited by: Stryker ]

[Popeye]

DriftR....So right you and Keta are! But let's not forget about the possibility that they wind up on your shaft and come skyward at the speed of Superman late for a date with Louis. 'Bout like being shot at by mortar fire from Atlantis :grin:

[greenbuttskunk]

geeeeze, that's sounds like 101 tons of fun!!!

[Mello-Yello]

I'd run them behind my motor if I could, but of course, I can't. Because I'm running an offshore bracket, I added additional 24" booms to my riggers (Penn Fathom-Masters). I'm now running 48" booms. The end of the boom hangs directly over my ballholders (I love that word), and the ballholders sit on the offshore bracket next to the transom.

I'm not sure if this is the best setup, but it sure looks cool.

IMHO, the longer the boom, the better. Gets em away from the boat, and it widens your rigger footprint. Just make sure your gunnels and hardware can handle the extra leverage.

[WP]

WP chuckles remembering the crossed heavies. I did that not once, not twice, but three times in 5 years! What a mess...twice I had 40's and once I had 55's. Man....even the thought gives me chills. ot only hard work, but very dangerous! Such are the lessons of youth and inexperience. FA, thanks (I think) for the memories!
WP [img]graemlins/stupid.gif[/img] :smile: :smile:

[corrirod]

Stryker, the current and drift is what kills you. If all conditions were flat, no waves, no drift, no current, then yes you could run them up front, however this is the Oregon coast and that doesn't happen very often. Just with the underwater current, if you make a turn with the riggers amidship or farther up you'll be dragging that wire across your hull unless you've got about 10' booms on your riggers. If they are mounted aft, assuming you have forward momentum your wires will not only clear your motor but will have no chance of touching the hull.

2 things to remember when running riggers:

1. Never go in reverse.
2. Never make sharp turns.

Many times last summer the current was too much and I was forced to troll either with or against the current and would have to pick up the riggers if I needed to make a turn.

[Stryker]

This is the plan. What do you think?
Plan "A"


Plan "B"


[ 04-23-2003, 04:17 PM: Message edited by: Stryker ]

[timinthegorge]

I'd go with 60" booms, but otherwise, looks good to me....

Tim :smile:

[corrirod]

O.k., first.......you have way too much time on your hands! :tongue:

I think you could have the best of both worlds if you mounted your riggers on swivels. I sometimes use them towards the back and soemtimes hold them out the side. Swivels also help you get them out of the way when you need to, ie. fighting a fish, changing spots, cleaning, etc..

[timinthegorge]

Sorry.... didn't let the full plan download. Definitely PLAN A....

[Stryker]

Hay, corrirod
When you set behind a computer ten hours a day you need something to fill the time. :depressed: I just keep three or four Internet sessions open at a time. That way I can work on the net and play at the same time.
All looks the same to the boss!!

[ 04-23-2003, 04:33 PM: Message edited by: Stryker ]

[DB_Cooper]

the wire and ball are a concern turning, backing up, ECT

<font size="2" face="verdana,arial,helv">Still trying to picture this "backing up" with riggers thing...

Plan A #1 Plan B #2 I like mine wide.

[Miss B Haven]

Plan A- 48" booms with swivels. You can swivel them in to reach the ball or run them in closer if conditions warrent. :smile:

Plan B you'll have a tough time clipping your line in and reaching the ball. :depressed:

[Fishplay]

Just what I was going to say Mel. "B" is too far aft. Use swivel mounts and place them as far aft as possible while maintaining easy access.

I have the boom extensions for my FathomMasters but rarely use them because you have to swivel the rigger to reach the clips. I run the 24"s and program them to stop with the weights just beneath the surface. This allows very easy and fast rigging; and eliminates the ringing of the bell. ( lead weights banging off the side of alluminum hull) Adding the extensions is simple if conditions require them.

[corrirod]

I see alot of talk about having to use the swivels to get the ball or clips off. Here is a new product Scotty is making that helps eliminate that problem. I made my own several years ago but theirs are really nice and fairly cheap. You might give it a try. It connects to your wire but allows the wire to still move up and down thru it. Then when you want to grab a clip or a ball, just pull on the rope and in it comes. Works really well.


No. 3025 Downrigger Weight Retreiver
Great helper and safety precaution for the downrigger fisherman. Brings weights in for rigging lines and releases without having to lean over the gunnel

[ 04-24-2003, 12:10 AM: Message edited by: corrirod ]

[Popeye]

Ah heck, just run em offa yer bow pulpit :grin: :grin:

[fish assassin]

Mark:

I have the typical commercial setup but with shorter outrigger poles ... mine
are "only" 20' long! When I'm running out 50 fathoms of wire and using a 40 lb.
cannon ball ... if there is a strong current the wires will pull back far enough
that they can get involved with the props on my outdrives if I make a sharp turn
across the current.

Last weekend there was sooo much current that even with a 40lb. cannon ball my wire
was pulling back past the back corner of the boat!! The dual prop setup helps
some, though. Now when my wire hits the prop I get a god-awful noise as the props
hit the wire. Bad part is that I then have to repair the wire ...

Two wires on the same side of the boat getting wraped together? No Problemo!! What
I really hate is when you wrap the two deeps together!! Don't ask me how I would
know this! I WILL tell you it's mot a pretty sight!

-assAssin-

Originally posted by Mark Mc:
Hey Mark, are you talking about running the wire straight off the davits, or with a line stop & spreading them out with the poles? I was under the impression you had the standard commercial setup, a lot more capable than sport downriggers. Also, do you have outdrives or straight shafts?

With sport downriggers, it seems there is this tradeoff. If you're fishing shallow, then sure they could be mounted forward with little problem on the turns. But with a lot of wire out and only a 10 or 12 lb ball, you'd be asking for trouble.

p.s. Mark/Assassin....how about when two wires from the same side get tangled (like the deep & the float)? The mother of all messes :depressed:

<font size="2" face="verdana,arial,helv">

[ 04-23-2003, 12:51 PM: Message edited by: fish assassin ]

[Miss B Haven]

Popeye - I tried that but I kept tripping over them while I was up there throwin' my harpoon and playin' Titanic with Tuni.

[Stryker]

Corrirod;
That doohickey looks like the trick if I mount them way aft (plan “B”) with 30” booms. Way aft is best I think, out of the way but a little harder to crank them up.

Definitely need swivel bases. If nothing else it gets the downriggers out of the way underway and when docking. It also gives me the option of having them out to the side or out back.

I’m also trying to decide what to do with the weights while underway, any new doohickey for that?

I’m into doohickeys!

[fish assassin]

corrirod,

That is *similar* to what the commercial boats use. You know, the same ... only
different!

If you set your blocks on your outriggers close to the boat and tie the thingy that
corrirod shows above on the outside end of your boom you can then put a clip above
the insulator and your wire will swing out away from the boat. Kinda the best of
both worlds. The ball comes up close to the boat, but fishes out at the end of the
boom!

I found a real cheap source for the insulators (the yellow thingy on corrirods picture).
I went down to the local hardware store and bought the white GLASS insulators that are
used for electric fences and the like. They are really cheap and the glass holds up
to the rubbing of the SS wire a lot better than the plastic does!

-assAssin-

[Miss B Haven]

Stryker- they make cup shaped ball holders. I always (well almost always- don't know if you saw my post about leaving one out once [img]graemlins/stupid.gif[/img] ) pull them inside the boat and place them on the floor. You could mount the holders on the gunnel or transom but I wouldn't take the chance of one bouncing out. 12 lbs of lead can do serious damage! :shocked:

Stryker,
Put them on swivel bases and mount then as in "Plan A" with the end about 10"-24" from your stern (like Corrirod did). Mine aren't on swivels and it's a bit hard to get to them but I have a very small boat and didn't have much choice.

Mel,
Nail a empty coffee can to the deck next to where you have your downrigers and put your balls in them, that is if Tuni lets you keep them after she sees the cans

[Fishslayer]

I also would go with plan "A" swivel base with an adjustable boom (up to 60"). It helps to keep the lines out further away from the boat/motors. Also nice if you decided to run a 3rd off the rear.

[Stryker]

SAFETY FIRST!!

Plan “B” it is.
I think I know where I can put the weights in my boat, in the gunwale tray. That is a safe place for them.

Mello-Yello
I can’t believe the moderator let you say that, ballholders.

fish assassin
Thanks for the tip on making my own doohickey to pull in the weights, I will do that.

Keta
There will be NO coffee can’s nailed to my boat!!!! :shocked:

timinthegorge & fishslayer
A 60” boom is not going to happen! I’m going to have to make 30” work.

DB_Cooper
Isn’t it obvious by my stupid questions I have no experience with downriggers??? [img]graemlins/stupid.gif[/img]

Now back to my original statement:
“Aft Downriggers Don't Make Sense!” To heck with mathematics and trig tables just do what your told boy! :blush:

As always you guys know this stuff, and once again I have gained from your experience. Isn’t ifish great? Where else could an idiot like me get such good (free) advice? Thanks to you, you will probable not recognize me on the water as that guy with the downriggers amidships and with a 150 LB steel cable wrapped around my prop… again! :grin:

[DriftR]

Stryker,
One last word of advice/caution, always, always secure those cannon balls. They have commercial type holders available. But it is easy to make your own. Just take a scrap of plywood (rectangular) screw(use outdoor deck screws or stainless) on two short pcs. of 2x4 on edge. Take you ball and lay it on the top. Use a marking pen to draw a circle around the base of the ball. Then take a scroll/jigsaw and cut out the circle. Your ball flops down in there nice and tight.You can go further and add carpet or no skid material to the bottoms of the 2x4's. They work great. If you use pressure treated lumber scraps that baby will last forever.

[Mello-Yello]

Tuna!

[ 04-24-2003, 06:21 PM: Message edited by: Mello-Yello ]

[Stryker]

Never mind, sorry

[ 04-25-2003, 07:15 AM: Message edited by: Stryker ]

[Mello-Yello]

:blush:

[ 04-24-2003, 06:24 PM: Message edited by: Mello-Yello ]