How Deep W/ Downriggers?

[SouthCoastStu]

I'm thinking of buying an electric downrigger for targeting 'Nooks in deep water I've got some questions.

Most of the sport downriggers I've seen come with 250' of cable, can you put more on? Say 350'? How deep can you effectively fish? What size weight? Am I stupid to think that I can fish that deep out of a 19' boat?

I can only afford to get one downrigger now, how hard is it to run two lines off one downrigger (stackers) at that depth? Problems with tangling? Someone once told me that only commercials could run more than one line off a downrigger, though I'm pretty sure thats not true from some of the past discussions I've read here.

What brand/model would you recommend? I'm looking at the Scotty 1116 W/ 250' of cable ($479 in Cabelas) but I see that the Cannon Magnum 20-DT comes with 400' of cable ($849). Any advice will be appreciated. Thanks.

[corrirod]

Diamondback,

I can't remember the model number of my riggers but they are the Scotty electrics with the adjustable boom. They work excellent!

I just recently spooled one rigger with 300ft. of cable and the other with 400' and still have room for more, however, I've never fished them deeper than about 210 ft. In regards to your question about how deep is possible, it depends on the current and drift. Yesterday I could've probably fished them to 300+ with no problem. On a typical day though it's tough to effectively fish past 200. Most of the water I fish for nooks in is under 300' anyway so I spend most of my time between 20-100 ft. down.

I would recommend that you get the swivel base on whatever model you get. It comes in handy when you need to get the rigger out of the way.

It is possible to fish 2 lines on each downrigger with ease. There are alot of logistics involved but it can be done. Having electrics makes it alot easier. Having the automatic retrieve is really nice because all you have to do is strategically place your stoppers so it stops for the first line, you take off the clip, then hit the button again and it stops at the second line. Running multiple lines does require some help though from the other fishermen. When a fish is hooked you will need someone to reel in the other line and undo the clips as they come up.

For ocean use, in my opinion, I would go with a minimum of a 12 lb. ball. I have some 10's but unless the ocean is really calm they don't stay down very good. I'm not sure what the Scotty is rated for but I think, depending on the model, a 15 lb. is as high as you can go.

Sorry this is such a long post. I probably created more confusion than help. In case you had any doubts though, electrics are worth every nickel.

[SouthCoastStu]

corrirod,
Thanks for the reply, it was very helpful. Looks like I'm leaning towards the Scotty 1116 pro-pack (includes swivel base, and 2 releases), W/ upgrade to maybe 400' of cable and 15 lb ball (if it's rated).

From looking in the archives, I see there is a lot to this downrigger stuff (releases, voltage, rigging etc.). After I get mine mounted, I'm sure I'll be back here with some more questions. Thanks!

Now to convince my better half why I need one.....

[Soft Plastic]

Diamondback

I have the scotty 1100 strongback model. I purchased these with the intent of fishing deep in lakes with them. I have 400 feet of wire on them and use 15LB weights. I have had 350 feet of cable out, but with blowback due to speed fishing depth is MUCH less. One problem I have with the scotty downriggers is after loading 400 ft of cable on them the depth counter is off about 15 percent. This is due to the depth counter working off drum revoloutions. The deepest I have used them in the ocean is about 150 ft. There is a book out called the trollers handbook which has lots of information on depth vs speed by downrigger weight. Amato press has it. One more thing to think about is that with short downrigger arms like mine the cable can be close to the trolling motor prop.

Scottys. The 1116 will take a 20lb ball and use 12 amps @185 Ft/min according to their catalogue.
You can legally stack on downriggers as long as you don't have more rods in the water than you have licensed fishermen in the boat. It isn't hard to do either. If you want to fish deep you will have to use the heaviest ball your downriger can take or a Z-WING .



[ 04-20-2003, 10:02 PM: Message edited by: Keta ]

[Pilar]

Don't rule out drift mooching at those depths. Only problem is you will catch incidental halibut.

Capn Dan made a believer out of me. Trolling sinker, mooching rig and a herring. Make the bait roll, drop it down slow to avoid tangles. Hit the bottom and crank it up about 30'. Put in the po holder and relax, let the boat just drift.

First time I saw this tech, 2 fish came up pretty quick. A nice halibut and a 25lb king.


I use 300' wires on the downrigger but rarely go below 180'. Even with 12's it hangs way back, 210 ft of wire to see it at 180 on the sonar. Stackers work but you will get some gear tangled on a bite. Also you have to reset the line after a strike and that usually means resetting all of them if the bottom release is tripped.

[Mello-Yello]

I couldn't agree more with Pilar. As we listened to the commercials talking about hammering the kings at 300', and watched our downrigger cables drift further behind the boat the deeper we ran, we started discussing mooching. We were running 40# Maxima on both my trolling poles and didn't think they would get down very good due to the resistance the fat line causes, plus it might be hard to feel nibbles with all the line stretch. (I like the fat maxima on my releases, seems they don't pop too easily) We were thinking, if a person was running 30 or 40# tuffline, they could probably get down pretty vertical without too much weight.

I personally prefer mooching to trolling anyway. I just like "the jerk on one end waiting for the jerk on the other". Fishing Puget Sound it was nothing to motor-mooch in 125' and deeper, plus, the tuff line lacks the stretch of mono so you should be able to feel light tugs at pretty great depths.

This gets me thinking I need to get away from the clamp type releases so I can go to tuff line on my salmon rods. Thus, I will end my post with yet another question...

Who uses the 'non' clamp style releases and what kinds do you like?

[Miss B Haven]

Mello- I know what you mean about the tuff line popping out of the rigger clips. I've never used anything but the offshore (Cannon?) type clips with the red rubber pads.
Lat last year Keta gave me a Scottie clip. It is a very different design and he thinks they hold better. Going to try it this year with the tuff line and see.

[Orca]

Mello,

I put 50 lb. PowerPro on my salmon rods and use the Scotty releases on my downriggers and they release correctly for me. I'm sure I have had a false release or two before, but I can't remember when.

Miss B,
The smaller version holds Nerta's 10lb power pro and my 20lb. They're the best releases I have used.

SCOTTY POWER GRIP

[Miss B Haven]

Keta- I was using 35lb tuff and even clear in the back of the offshore clips they wouldn't hold it (not for long anyway.

[skein]

We made two changes this year, and like them both. One, we went to the Scotty release like in Keta's post. Worked great.

The other thing was connecting the flasher to the cannonball and stacking the line above it. When we got bit, we were just fighting the fish, not the fish and the flasher.

It took a couple of tangles before we figured out the technique but after that it seemed to work well. We felt like we put our share of fish in the boat anyway.

I will go with Scotty electrics in my new boat, and like optics, I will get the best I can afford. Swivel bases are a must, along with length of boom and lots of cable. I have always used Cannons, and been satisfied with them, but as far as electrics are concerned, there seems to be a lot more Scotty's than any other. I figure there must be a reason for that.

I like the "mooching" idea and will add that to my strategy bag.

Skein

The other thing was connecting the flasher to the cannonball and stacking the line above it.

<font size="2" face="verdana,arial,helv">Works good for kokanee too.

[Mr. Fisherman]

I have a Scotty electric for my boat and plan to try something new. I really like tuff line for fishing deep and plan to try a piece of tubing threaded over my main line to use in the release. I am hoping that the extra friction by the increased resistance in the clip will hold the line and still release.
I'll post up when I have some field results.
I need to mount the thing and get it salty first...

[jcarufo]

Stacking is easy. We fish two downriggers and 4 rods in Canada, two each side. We like Offshore releases, but we use 15-20 pound Izor mono. We've never tried spectra. Like everyone said, much over 200 and the cable angle would be really great. As well as a huge belly in your line. You might try a 200 series Z-wing though.
For stacking, get stainless long line clips and attach 2 feet of yellow weed wacker string to a large ball bearing swivel. Slide the swivel on the clip and attach your chosen release to the end of the yellow string.The clip then snaps on to the wire at your desired spot and makes it easy to attach your line to the clip.
We run our riggers 20 feet difference from side to side with 20 feet between the clips on each side. Bottom line 12 pulls from the clip, top line 24 pulls. That's using 11" flashers. With plugs or smaller flashers you could get closer together than 20 feet. For Sockeye we sometime run a dummy flasher off the ball as well.
When fishing, we have rods at say 100 and 80 on one side and 90 an 70 on the other. When fishing Chinook and bit we pop and reel in the other rod and lift the downrigger, but let the other side fish. With other salmon, if the top rod goes off we let the bottom one fish. Any time the bottom rod gets bit, the top one has to be pulled. It's easy.
Just one suggestion about set up of your downriggers, put them as close to the stern on port and starboard as comfortable. That way the cable easily clears your kicker on turns.
Another long post, sorry. Hope this helps.
Jean

[Soft Plastic]

You guys having problems with tuff line in a downrigger release need to try the Pro Release. It handles any line, and has a wider trip pressure range than any release I have tried. One more thing I like about them is that it is easy to pop your line out of them even when the release pressure is cranked down. Make sure you get them with the clothes pin style attachment. I also change the line lengh to 6 feet, easier to detect smaller fish. I must agree that the new scotty releases are pretty good too.

[greenbuttskunk]

I used to fish the great lakes quite a bit with downriggers, and I used rubber bands for releases.
I bought these at a stationary store. Always consistant, once I found the right weight rubber, never had problems with false releases. Stacking does work just fine when done correctly. I've also never fished more than about 120 feet, drag sure starts to come into play. Some folks have no idea how much cable needs to be out to actually be at a specific depth, especially running against a tide. I like the mooching idea, works well and is simple to fish. If you're going to very deep, make sure the gunnels can support the stress properly. Good luck!

[Pilar]

80# powerpro and a cannon adjustable pinchlock release works great.

The other style with the two red rubber pads takes some finesse. The angle the line goes through the pads seems to make the big difference. About 45 degrees is what I use. The line going up to your po as far into the pad as you can go and the bottom side goes to your terminal gear and comes off the pads more to the rear.

Moving the flasher to the ball greatly reduces the tug on the line making false releases much less common.


I'm starting to detect offshore salmon pox amongst some of you Salty dogs. :grin: The rumour is that the fish are moving north.

[corrirod]

I use the Scotty releases as well and they work great with all types of line. You need to play with them though to get just the right release but you have to do that with all brands.

[Mello-Yello]

Release problem solved! I just bought a Scotty and a ProRelease. Bases covered. I'm putting 50# tuffline on tonight and if I notice a preference, I'll let everyone know. Sounds like either one will work. [img]graemlins/applause.gif[/img]

Was talking with Mark at Englund's in Charleston today. What he does is;

Using a Uni-knot, he just ties 20 or 30' of mono to the end of his tuff line. The mono goes in the release, everything upstream is tuff-line. Now why didn't I think of that? [img]graemlins/dork.gif[/img]

Sounds like there's a lot of local discussion about getting deep too. One idea Mark was kicking around was using a sinker release. Throw on a pounder lead and mooch away.

If I can get out this weekend, I'll probably be trying a deep-water mooch w/my 50# tuff-line. I'm thinking 6-8 oz will work, though I might need a little help from my motor to stay relatively vertical. That is if I can get my buddy away from bottom fish...he's hooked bad!

[TyeeTom]

I agree wholeheartedly with mooching when fishing the deeper water. Many of the lodges/guides in SE Alaska only mooch. However, they don't put the rods in the holder. Just reel fairly quickly to get a good spin on your herring. The nice thing about it is that you are covering different depths. It's a fun way to fish and many fish are caught on the drop. If there is no current or wind to push you along, put your kicker into gear for a few moments to get the line hanging at the right angle.

[SouthCoastStu]

Good discussion, lots of helpful tips (as usual). I think I will try mooching in the deep water next time the ocean cooperates before plunk’n down the cash for the downrigger setup. Thanks.

[pkg40]

Don't sell the downriggers short for shallower trolling as well. I fish them almost exclusively for salmon. Mostly between 10 and 50 feet. I usually start with one at 15 and one at twenty five and work from there. I find that I get much better control of the lines especially as my boats got bigger. There is also much less chance for tangling up your neighbors if you don't need to let out a mile of line to get your bait down.
Running downriggers, I get as many coho as ever and many more nice chinooks in the mix.

Peter

P.S. I usually troll stright whole herring with 3 oz cresent 100 feet behind the boat. No additional harware. Too many headaches.

[Troller]

I read above about stacking. I fished this way most of the time. I to was using the big halibut clips to attach them to the downrigger cable. After bringing one up and not paying attention we had a double on the other side. I brought it up to far and pop it came off and I watched 10 bucks splash and sink to the bottom. Lesson learned I now pay better attention to what I am doing. But I also picked up a couple of the offshore releases the funny looking ones I allways wondered about because why would you want two releases attached together . Well I found out you snap it on the line use one release to hold it on the downrigger cable and the other to your fishing line. When this hits the top no worries it just pops off and slides to the bottom with the lower release so you can get at them at the same time. Another lesson learned keep the smelly jelly away from the line and releases. That way they will work like their supposed to. Just a bit slippery when you get scent on them. One more thing check out www.berrysbait.com for your scotty downrigger prices .

[greenbuttskunk]

I agree. I fish downriggers exclusively out of hammond in aug/sept. for silvers and chinook. I do like the control of depth. Seems to work great for me, especially on silvers.

[FallRiverGuy]

I have a question about attaching the "Flasher" to the ball. Do mean a flasher as in Hot Spot Flasher? If so, how much line to you have between the ball the flasher and how high up the downrigger cable do you place the clip?

FRG.
Dodger, flasher, cow bells or whatever, on 3' of heavy line (50+) with ball bearing swivels on both ends.

[gimmeumpqua]

Hey all...
For an incredible price on scotty electrics...

www.stevestonmarine.com

I bought two Scotty 1100s for $235 apiece!

They are out of B.C. and are very reliable....will use up to date exchange rates.


Kurt

[ 04-22-2003, 08:48 PM: Message edited by: gimmeumpqua ]

[Slow Roll]

As for the issue of accuracy when you add more cable to your downrigger.
All we did was go buy and inexpensive line counter (like the ones that you can clamp on to your rod) and put that on the boom of the rigger. Much more accurate that the ones that are installed by the factory.
Line Counter

Paul B.

[Fishplay]

My .02

This is a great deal on what is in my opinion the best downrigger on the market. click here

I have used all the major brands and some of the niche brands. I own the Penn FathomMasters and if I ever have to buy again, it will be Penn.

[Sky-Guy]

I fish with old Penn 820's and agree they are great downriggers. It really says something that these 10-15 year-old riggers are still going strong. I have never had a single problem with them.
The 835's still have the same motor and design as the older models, a few new bells and whistles. I bet we will still see them in service in another 20 years too.

Penn's do cost a bit more than Scotty's, but what is the old saying? "You get what you pay for" Good deals are to be had from reputable eBayers on all these products mentioned.
No insult to Scotty, they make a great product and other fishers in my family have them... I like them too.

In my circle we both mooch and troll quite a bit, depending on water conditions, where the fish mark on the finder, bait presence, etc.
On my boat I have two DR's. When we fish three we normally dont stack, but have the third long line down the center for both Coho and Blackmouth. Amazingly, the center pole can have better days than those of us down deep! Point is, I think every salmon fisherman will increase their catch by emploring the right method at under the right conditions. That includes having the right equipment and techniques, and great people like yourselves to learn from too!