Should we share?

[Pilar]

GPS waypoints. There are no zipperlips in the big blue lake in my opinion. Many here share waypoints through email and on scribbled match book covers and tackle packages. It would be better to have an established library for the dogs to use and add to.

I am working with Jennie to provide an area on the board to store common GPS waypoints. I think this 'library' should be reserved for regular contributing members of this board. Definitely should not be available to lurkers or others here just to take.

Do any of you have any thoughts on this?

[Gregotis98]

I've got nothin to hide man, I'd give anyone on here my #'s anyday. The best times I've ever had fishing in my life were do to #'s shared with me. I don't see much point in keeping secrets out there, there's plenty of room and all it can do is benefit the fun for the few of us that are serious about going out for some serious fishing. ALMOST everyone I've met on here has been very cool and have helped me in many different ways and I don't see a problem.

[Pilar]

Myles, I think just giving anyone the #'s that can read would result in what you are saying. But if we keep it in our community it will work. We can compare #'s and see if there is a pattern to where certain species are found and maybe a pattern to the time of year.

Also there are some inshore reefs that will not take much pressure.

Common sense here ... oh wait he died a few days ago.....

[OceanBlue]

Common sense did indeed die Death Notice

[Uglygreen]

I'm always up for nonzipperlip stuff. I got a few GPS coordinates to contribute, some up here and some down Mexico way. Ill even throw in a list of good sturgon holes on the CR and Wilamette. :grin:

UG

[Mr. Fisherman]

No, just send them all to me :grin:
I'll keep track of them

I suppose I could be talked into sharing....

[WP]

Inshore bottom spots out of Newport are vast. No problem most days getting all the fish you can have. Today three of us stopped with 5 lings and 26 assorted bottom fish in the boat. Could have gotten the 5 more to fill our limits, but we had all we wanted for the day and I had a meeting to get to this afternoon. We got food for Norm and a resupply for me and Steve. I virtually never keep track of bottom spots, there are so many of them. A good fish finder is more than adequate, at least for the time being. I like the search activity. In a new port I do appreciate the help in locating the areas that constitute opportunities. Kurt shared some for Garibaldi and Others have helped in Coos Bay and other areas. This whole zipper thing is difficult. I want to share with the people on the list and other friends and aquaintences but advertizing hot spots to the world is not a good idea for limited areas or heavily fished areas.WP
In a post last year I suggested a Numbers recording plan for the Salty Dogs. I still think it would be excellant. I may even record a few bottom reefs.

[Clarity]

I'm more than willing to contribute, but then I'm willing to bet I'll learn more from you guys than the other way around.

[Fishplay]

I think it's excellent to share. I have a few that I would share and John has already shared a couple with me.

My only concerne is making this available to just anyone might encourage someone lacking the proper skills and/or equipment to charge across the bar because they "know where the fish are".

Sort of like giving out trailhead directions to Hurricane Ridge to the day hiker you just met wearing shorts and a windbreaker.


I think a members only area accessed by invitation only may be needed on this.

I just heard about a boating incident that involved my old boat and the fella I sold it to. I guess he capsised and the boat ended up on the beach. There were some pretty severe injuries but all survived.

When boating in the brine there are freak waves, wrong places to be at the wrong time, and wrong places to be at ANY time.

Unfortunately some are learned the hard way and the stakes are very high.

This must have taken place about the same time Myself, Pilar, and Corrirod went out. Info is second hand at this point.

[blubeast]

Pilar, I agree...since the coordinates on the salt usually represent a large general area (such as the Rock Pile), realy not much risk in it getting too packed with boats.

A library of numbers would be great.

I also think as way to create & maintain the Salty Dog contact sheet online would be helpful. That way when new menbers get the adiction they can be added easily and an updated list obtained whenever one wants.

[ 04-17-2003, 12:36 PM: Message edited by: blubeast ]

If I were you guys I'd keep the inshore bottom fish numbers to yourselves, I wouldn't even ask you for them. The others wouldn't hurt.

[Miss B Haven]

My bottom fishing spot! Hope to see some of you out there some day. I've never had any company that I didn't take with me! It's a fair drive from the CR or Tilli- about equidistant. 26 miles SW of the Spark Plug, 22 miles west of Cannon beach I believe. The charters used to hit it but since Salmon has been so good maybe they aren't as motivated to make this run.
Not a spot you trailer boaters would prefer when you can drive to Dopey or Newport and fish close in. Something the "stuck in the water boats" up at CR might find fun though (8-knots, you out there?)
You'd have to be blind to not find this on a chart anyway. [img]graemlins/stupid.gif[/img]

Shale Pile N 45 deg 54.00 min W 124deg 33.00
(approx. center of the reef)

Small reef NW of shale pile
N 45 deg 58.749 min
W 124 deg 35.122 min

There's a third small one out (West of the main reef) there I haven't visited yet. Something to explore this year.

PS- Pilar- I didn't get an answer on that e-mail about this. :whazzup:

[Myles]

I'd hate to see any small reefs or rocky areas wiped out, but waypoints posted using some discretion would be great.

myles

[Troller]

I have a some way points for Neah Bay up here in washington. I could share those if your interested.

[Gregotis98]

I'm with Fishplay, make it an invite only for the real contributors. I know in my first reply I wrote "anyone" but that pertains to the people that I've met through TA meetings, fished with and people that post and are real folks. #'s are for people that are willing to "look and research.

[ 04-18-2003, 09:42 AM: Message edited by: Gregotis98 ]

[Miss B Haven]

Keta- if you can read this- your email is dead again. Return mail- no service error etc etc. :depressed: [img]graemlins/berry.gif[/img] [img]graemlins/1zhelp.gif[/img]

Email problem was at IP again. It's fixed.

[Mello-Yello]

Just an idea. How about a person having to have at least "Steelhead" classification (100 posts or more). I think to get to a hundred, you'd have shown you are at least involved. Then, a formal request would be made by the new "steelhead", and existing members could either approve or diss-approve of them being welcomed in. If they are approved, they receive a password to enter. This would prevent someone from trying to spam their way in. This would be a sort of "earn your way" approach.

Or, a person has to attend at least one tunaholics get-together.

This coming from someone that has accomplished neither...

[WP]

It is tough to separate those who want to use and not contribute and those who genuinely want to join in a group. I would be cautious about getting too restrictive on this or anything. Maybe just have Jon, or whoever is maintaining the information, control access. They could verify that the person has been at least participating or shown interest beyond a one time source pass key. It is a tough thing. Mello-Yellow has definately "joined" and been a contributor though he hasn't been on long. Others have a long history but have stayed connected with the Salty Dogs throughout. Leave it to someone we can trust and if some slip through, it is not the biggest tragedy that could happen. The bigger risk is the disemination that can occur naturally over time...and that is somewhat inevitable, with or without a source list.
Just my not so humble opinion, WP
:grin: :grin:

[Deepslayer]

I have pretty much quit reading the main board due to some people's zipper lip attitude. The past year I have experienced some great halibut and tuna fishing on the big blue due to numbers supplied by Pilar.
I remember when I was a teenager. I used to fish the Santa Cruz Bay in a rented row boat. I spent a lot of days skunked until I finally figured out some good spots. Then I consistently came home with rockfish and lings. There was no I fish salty dogs to help out a novice. The big blue is a hard enough nut to crack without some general way points to start with. I am all for it. However you decide to do it.

[Mello-Yello]

5% of the fishermen (and women) catch 95% of the fish. That ain't luck baby!

[WP]

Hey Ed!
Long time no see...you gonna join me for some Halibuts? Hope all is well, stop by and see me soon!
WP :smile: :smile:

[Deepslayer]

I'd love to kill some fat butts with you Dave. When are you going to be here Friday & Saturday?
,Ed

[Pilar]

Dang, can you feel the love here? :blush:

Ok, it sounds like most people responding are in favor. I think the bar sorts it all out for us ocean fishers. I have no problem helping someone be successful and safe who has mustered the courage to cross the bar. Matter of fact most of the people I fish with feel the same way and that is no accident. The ocean is huge and there is no way to master it but by experience. SOmetimes a lifetime of experience. With our shared experiences we will get there much quicker.

Most of us here exceed the cross the bar standard by far and as Jcarufo said above we help each other out. That is what makes this forum different. We take risks in the process of having fun and we help each other minimize those risks.

Maybe some more discussion at the tackle party this evening is in order. I don't know about you but I want to do it right.

Slow Roll, that is very astute of you. One of the projects NOAA has grant money available for is for finding techniques to minimize the catch of the troubled rockfish. I have many waypoints that are species specific. Every time I go there, I catch a quillback, ling or whatever.

We could pool our logs and gps #'s and quickly find the areas to avoid. If the concept proves out perhaps we can get NOAA to grant us to do more research.

That was my thought, preliminary plan or whatever you want to call it. We have to be proactive and keep the resource health as our #1 concern if we are going to stay on the water fishing long term.

[jcarufo]

Pilar,
I think it's an exellent idea. I have lot's of numbers from here and Vancouver Island that I'd be glad to share. A web page you might like to take a look at to help you design one for IFSH is Charkbait's Resource page. Pages of both maps and GPS coordinates. This thread is why I always enjoy seeing your posts. I've always been one that feels we all share the resource and have equal right, and someone, thankfully many people over my lifetime, have had the courtesy to share information with me. Isn't it my responsibility to share as well? I think my greatest joy is to see someone be successful with information I've provided. If I have to get up 5 minutes earlier to get 'my spot', so be it.
This thread parallels exactly my feelings about IFISH. Firstly, I love it for all the information provided that I can learn from and share with others, and secondly I hate it for it's conceit and cliquish arrogance. A couple of reasons I spend more of my limited time on the Salty Dogs board are the many people like you and and your obvious willingness to share knowledge, and that this board has typically stayed clear of that cliquish attitude. So many of the general board's posts are like, "ha ha, I know a spot and technique that you don't". Hey, I got out of kindergarden a long, long time ago. If someone doesn't want to share, that's fine, but keep their zipperlip crap to themselves. Don't waste the boards bandwidth or my few minutes of available time. It's like the guy that reaches over the side of the boat to pick a plug out of the water before the boat next to him can see what he's fishing with. What, are we going to steal your fish? Give me a break. If we had a little respect for each other and the resource we all profess to love so much, we wouldn't have to worry about even our near shore rockfish spots. I have some too, but I'll be glad to share mine.
Thank you again for your dedication and your time. If I can help in some way, let me know.
Have a great Day!
Jean

[Slow Roll]

I won't have anything to add for the numbers listfor awhile but would defintely like to learn.

A thought on the numbers list....Pilar mentioned the ability to track the pattern of fish location. This could be a real asset for finding the right fish and avioding the wrong ones. I'm sure everyone here would like to know which areas to avoid to prevent catching the yellow eyes and canaries.
Maybe compile people's fishing logs of what was caught where and when and then compile the numbers at the end of the year (or on a monthly basis)and see if that predicts a trend in species location.
Maybe some of you are ahead of me on this but I would be willing to donate time to put this info togethor.

Just a thought.

Paul B.

[Silver One]

To the question "Should We Share?", well, I for one am gratefull for this site. Granted, I am one of those fishers who does'nt post often but that is because, regretfully, I don't have much to say. When I feel I can contribute to the discussion I post. Also, as a southern Oregonian I often fish the southern part of the state. On several occasions I have sought and received great info from private correspondence with posters from this site, thankyou Mr. Fisherman, Tailchasher and others. As to the original question of sharing,I have learned about safety, boat types, tackle types, when, where, how, etc., etc. Heck, many of you offer up seats on your boats to newbies with no gear. So now, you are wondering if it would be appropriate to post exact GPS coordinates for your spots. What's next, free lodging at the homes of coastal IFishers? What I am saying is you all amaze me with your generosity. THANKYOU all!

[WP]

Go Vinny!
Nice to see you are listening! Flattie time soon. Are you taking your boat or riding with someone? Hope to see ya there.
WP (Dave)

[LuckyDuck1]

I am for sharing Big Blue coordinates myself. I Always welcome company out on the PO. I also think if you go out past the Horizon it is smart to have a tag team when you go out. Most of the GPS coordinates I have are from the pre input maps that comes with the mapping lowrance gps data archives. Some of mine are also from following charters like the Irish and other's. I have some that were stumbled upon by chance while watching the depth finder that are really good producers. :grin: A formal library of the points might be a good way to share among Ifisher's. Count me in when you decide on a format for sharing. [img]graemlins/applause.gif[/img] LuckyDuck1

-------------------------------------------
Flat days in May equals Flat fish on board!!!

[8knots]

Miss B Haven,

I am catching up on the postings, after 7 days in Alaska, three in Denver, two in Everett and now a week coming up in St. Louis. I am going to need some serious saltwater fishing therapy this summer! The bottom fishing at your spot looks promising and I look forward to trying it one day this summer. I plan on having the boat in Ilwaco for two months so I hope to try your spot on a combo salmon/ling day. Thanks for the tip.....it does show up in a big way on the chart.

[CrazyFish]

Sharing is a good thing. I'm all for it and am more than willing to share some good #'s. [img]graemlins/applause.gif[/img]

[Capin' Dan]

Sharing the numbers are a great idea as we will all find out they will be vast. Something to add toyour list is communications between salty dogs. That is locating the fish at any given time.

Story Time:
Last year on the rock pile pulling the canyon "You know which one John", we were in Ling cod heaven. I mean the big boys as fast as you could send anything down bam. We put out a salty dog call. We got one answer. Gave coordinates. Short pause and then we get a reply hey I'm already at that location are you in the white boat with the red top. Yep thats us. Ohhhh I am off your bow about 150 yds. We had to take the guy to the exact spot to start his drift I mean if you missed it by 30 yds you didn't get them. It was great watch his 8 year old son fighting about a 25 lb ling. We have also seen this time and again with Halibut. If you are making the right drift it is fish on. So remember Get your fish, Call your closest friends so they can get theirs and then put out the word to the rest of the gang.

Thanks Pilar for the effort sorry to miss the meeting last week. Darn dogs seem to take all my time lately.

[Albacore Tuna Captain]

Absolutely Capn Dan! You can be in the general area but the exact drift is a killer. This is especially true with halibut. Several years ago, I took the numbers from my records and those of two other charter boat captains and made a plot for every halibut hooked up over a five year period. I found that there are specific beds where the fish lay all the time. With this info I have been able to boat over 30 fish on every trip and do it inside of 8 hours. Of course hanging all those hooks help too! :grin: But the point is that halibut and ling cod like certain kind of bottom conditions and if you are in the slot, you'll get em! The best bet though is your fishing buddy who has found the slot that day. That's why you can't be a loner out there. You will always be more successful if you work with other boats. That's why I think the Salty Dog contact sheet will be a great help! I have no problems with helping the other charters out because the help me too. And I think the Salty Dogs are the best bunch of fishing machines out there and I know we can all help each other.

[Pilar]

Agreed Capn Dan, I will call in other fishers to a hot bite, 'specially albacore. We did that last year during a June halibut day for Sturgeon Princess at the rockpile. We were near tagged out on FB and could not get a salmon on for all the halibut. Even 100 feet off the bottom. Not long after that we saw them buckled on a double. Pretty cool!

Same spot BTW Dan, I think that one is a keeper.

Another thought is that if we 'name' these spots or refer to them by a number we could avoid braodcasting in the clear on VHF.

You know, "Hey Wak, the tuna are jumping at '61 degrees', come on over and help me kill the <unprintable> things ... oh wait, I've got something on the other line ... See ya...."

That would be way better than giving the numbers in the clear.

[ 04-21-2003, 08:50 AM: Message edited by: Pilar ]

[Pilar]

TTT, it's time boys and girls to circle the wagons.

Broadcasting numbers in the clear is only good for people who have nothing invested in our community. The members of the community have access to the info by other means.

We can use DSC encoding to encrypt transmissions but only a few have the new radios or even know how to use them. I believe we should share our numbers and work from a common list.

Broadcasting in the clear gives away the keys to the kingdom. Some of the info was learned at a great cost and is priceless. You are giving to people who do not believe in sharing to the detriment of our community.

Since most of them have no intention of giving anything back we should stop doing it.

Skein, what can we do to make this happen?

[Mr. Fisherman]

I'm still in.

[Reelentless]

I just started fishing the big pond a couple months ago. Because of all the great advice from people on this site, I had many safe and successful adventures. I didn't always catch fish, but I made it home alive and had fun so I consider that a success. :smile:

I don't say much because I'm a rookie and I feel I don't have much to offer. However, I look forward to the day I can return the favor to someone looking to experience the thrill of fishing the "Big Blue".

[BUGLEMAN]

I believe that if this waypoint data base were to be constructed the largest challenge will be to keep it usefull. I sugggest some system for checking in points and a definition of what constitutes a useful number. A classification system. Also there should be a good description of the point, time of year it fishes, water temp, species and depth to bottom, miles from nearest port. A bare list of descriptors and coordinates isn't going to help many people.

[HOGGEMIN]

I think this is a great idea but can we limit its access to ifish members and not lurkers? Just a thought maybe it would intice lurkers to join.

[Silver Eagle]

Just have to throw my 2 cents in, I have the Bite Me out of Newport A Dock when I can make it, you guys give out so much info if anyone can't catch fish out of Newport its a shame. I really spend too much time reading the Posts I have leaned so much info that I thought I already knew, if I have any numbers anyone wants and I'm there stop bye. But most of the thime fishing is like hunting here today gone tomarrow. Just remember don't leave fish to catch fish.

[edsr]

Will have some numbers to contribute when the T/A's meet again.

edsr

[Bait O' Eggs]

Since the hot bite can happen anywhere at any time, it wouldnt be to hard to make a grid with waypoints all over the ocean on the corners of a 10 mile grid. We could cover all the area most sport boats could get to without making to many waypoints. When fishing we could give out numbers like the hot bite is happening 3 miles at 270 degrees from waypoint #12, the same postion could be given as 7 miles at 90 degrees from waypoint #18 ) If you didnt know where the corners on the grid were the numbers wouldnt mean much to anybody but the salty dogs. Numbers of the waypoints on the grid could change from time to time.

[Orca]

I'm with BOE, cover everything with one easy system for over the air chatter. This way when I find a new hot spot, I don't have to already have it on a list of known spots. Publish the other known spots as well that can be refered to as well.

[rockn'reel]

Sorry I got in on this a little late, but I have been out of town after my initiation to tuna! I agree with the post on keeping this for individuals who contribute. I have not been around long but have tried to contribute what I can just because I feel bad for taking without ever giving back. I know there are many out there who do not feel this way and will take without returning the favor. Like I have said on previous posts most of my information will be coming out of the Pug. Sound or west Van Isl. I do not have anything too specific for this area unless we go into the rivers.
I would like to say one things though. I sometimes am the person pulling a bait or putting it into the RIVER when I have others out there who are doing nothing but focusing their bino's on me to see why I am so sucessful. Many times I have come back to a spot (the one I am talking about is just wide enough for two boats it you know what you are doing), to find someone there since 4 am and taking up the entire drift area. I do not appreciate this! I understand they beat me in there but when they don't pull fish out of the spot, won't try to make room for me next to them, and will not even acknowledge me when I do anchor next to them I am not inclined to give them any info. Everyone on this site has been extremely helpful and even though there are arguements from time to time, I know I could call on anyone here for help and I hope they know the same goes for me out in the Ocean.
I hope we can figure out a way to make this happen for all to enjoy these spots that are so readily talked about without having to continually post or search for the numbers in the history.
I also hope this does not create a segregation between existing members and those "unborn" members later down the road. I hope that even with this numbers posting and limited access to that certain page that the hospitality of the salty dogs stays intact. Sorry about the long post.

[T-Bone]

I'm in the category with Northriverman. Have learned a ton from the few questions I've asked and have to say that everyone in this forum has been great. Not numbers but good safe ocean boating advice. To me that's worth more than knowing where a good spot is. Figure that as I gain experience I'll gain numbers. Went fishing off Barkley Sound in Canada this summer so have great numbers for a halibut shelf there if anyone's ever wanting them.

[apparentgenius]

I am a newbie to the ocean, but have been doing great when I fish Halibut. I'd be willing to share the few that I have.

[SKSPAWNER]

Hey, guys
I would be willing to share my coordinate resources with other Ifishers, but I'll bet that some of you already have some of them in your collection.

Skein:Your multistone is on the way. I'm on vacation from 9/13-9/23, so let me know how we can hook up.

Sunny K

[ 09-12-2003, 06:54 AM: Message edited by: SKSPAWNER ]