Z wing (high speed) divers?

[Uglygreen]

Anyone know where to find Z wing high speed divers for sale? Local?
UG

[ 03-28-2003, 06:45 AM: Message edited by: Uglygreen ]

[Orca]

http://www.charkbait.com/cs/csd3.htm

[Pilar]

Uglygreen, my mate is in L.A. right now and they have some good saltwater tackle stores there.

Should I call her and have her look for one?

[fishwhenican]

Ugly Green, you beat me to part of my question, has anyone used Z-Wings or the Scotty pro-troll for high speed trolling? The more I've read about Blue Fin TUNA the more reason to troll deeper????? Or how about the larger planers that you run off a hand line, and can put a release on for the rod/lure. The only downside I see to planers is the amount of blowback, and the time to retrieve, where downriggers with a Z-Wing would have less blowback and be quicker to retrieve. Fewer line tangles, bigger fish down deep? [img]graemlins/1zhelp.gif[/img]

[Uglygreen]

John, no, don't bother, Im just going to order a couple online. Found them for 46 bucks.

fishwhenican

We have used them down south for the last few years. Usually trolling for Marlin with a live bait at 3-4 mph, I did some testing while we were in Mexico last week, and the size 50 actually worked extremely well up to 15 miles per hour on the hand-held GPS pulling a feather jig.

I couldn't get the lead downrigger balls to stay down last year at 8 mph for albacore last year, this year I will have 2 of the Z-wing's on board for tuna. Several of the days we tried to keep one feather jig down and had a lot of hits on the one on the downrigger. One day we got about 15 of the 20 fish we got on the down rigged line.

Plus they figure prominatly in my secret plan to bring a billfish into an Oregon port this year. :grin:

UG

[fishwhenican]

Thanks Uglygreen, forward me the URL of the place you are ordering the Z-Wings from, if you would
Thanks

[Hamachi]

My friend and I bought and used these years ago in So Cal. We used them primarily while trolling for Mako and Thresher sharks. While I never had any problems, he lost two to the cable snapping. They exert a tremendous amount of pressure, especially while set at the maximum angle.

[jcarufo]

I got mine from Mark at Charkbait. About $45.00 for the 500 model. We use seine twine to a cleat. Instead of using an Offshore release try an Aftco Flat line release. You'll like the result. We've used them very successfully in Zihuatanejo and Cabo up to about 50 feet deep. They are easy to throw in luggage.

Jean

[OceanBlue]

Here's the response I got when inquiring about K-90 divers and Z-Wing divers at all 4 (saltwater) shops I visited:

:whazzup:

I found a very large bird for $25.00 at one shop. When I asked the guy about it, he said - "I don't sell many of those and when I do, they always come back."

[Hamachi]

Pilar's Mate-
Just out of curiosity, which stores did you go to and where were they?
Thanks.

[OceanBlue]

Hamachi - Boy, that's gonna be tough to recall. Let's see, there was Bob's on Sawtelle in WLA, Lincoln-Pico on Lincoln in SM, another in SM that I can't remember and Conejo Custom Tackle in Thousand Oaks. Lincoln-Pico was the one that had the birds. None of them had heard of either the K-90 or Z-wing divers, but all (except Bob's) said divers don't work and they all come back. Then again, they may have been thinking salmon while I was talking Tuna. It was quite the frenzy with the salmon opener and all.

Interesting side note... at Conejo, we started talking salmon and I mentioned we use whole herring. The guy said they use anchovies. They don't have herring and can't get it. Swears by anchovies, though. Maybe something to try? [img]graemlins/idea.gif[/img]

[Orca]

This looks like an inexpensive and compact solution for high speed tuna trolling:

http://www.charkbait.com/cs/csd3.htm

Look for "Down-Rigger Alternative" a bit past 1/2 down the page. I may get a couple to try out.

[Threemuch]

Those big high speed divers from Sea Striker can be bought cheap. The high speed version (#8) can be bought for 15 bucks or so for just the planer. I intend to get a couple to run off meat lines or to use on my down riggers.

[jcarufo]

Orca,
A possible problem might be the shallow angle it seems to run at speed and the amount of drop back (seine twine/cable) needed to get the eventual depth you want. In the picture you refer to it looks awfully flat. The 500 Z-Wing fishes much more vertical; way under 45 degrees, but still pulls easily to reset.
Jean

[Threemuch]

Chovies are great salmon bait. I prefer herring, but chovies will do in a pinch.

[Pilar]

I don't know about the rest of you guys but running divers at 8mph is not making much sense to me.

The strain on that line must be really high.

[Popeye]

John...I'm going to try them off of my downriggers at 6 kt, I think it will work. I ordered a couple yesterday :grin:

[Pilar]

Popeye how much is that pulling? 100 lbs? How much cable strength do you have to have?

Just curious. When I get to about 3 mph on my Canon sport troll with a 12# ball it starts putting alot of stress on it. I use 150# SS wire.

[edsr]

Correct me if I am wrong, but isn't there a thought that the smaller albies feed
on the top biting surface stuff and the big boys could be under those guys? Hello Yellow Fins/Blue Fins and big albies. Of course this is all contingent on water temp.
edsr

[corrirod]

Has anybody used the ProTroll version? They are about 40% less money and look like they would work the same.

ProTroll Link

Also, Orca, Cabelas has the Pot-o-Gold Planer which looks to be the same as the one you posted only it's just the planer. Here's the link:

Pot-o-Gold Planer Link

[Popeye]

Pilar...I'm running 150# wire. The brakes on my Scotties will hold the tension of 12#ers at about 4-5Kts, so I guess I'm thinking that the high speed divers will work at 6Kts. As far as the wire strength goes..I hung a ball on the bottom off of Lopez Is. a coupla years ago, and the brakes gave first
edsr...you're reading my mind
:grin:

When I get back to work I plan on spooling one of my downrigers with 200lb spectra to see how it works at higher speed.

[seasquid]

Guys and gals,

I use two handlines with Yo-Zuri divers (Englund Marine) -- not the same obviously, but before you all go out and spend a ton of money, I can tell you there are days they catch one or two and that is it...there are days when they do okay, but I wouldn't say outstanding as compared to regular top lines. I'm frankly not sure how far they are diving down, but I'm guessing they're digging 20 feet at least. You might be able to use those on downriggers, I guess I have never thought about it too much. There are times I have even pulled those divers in because they kept getting tangled up with fish I have on other lines.

Just my $.02

sf

[Popeye]

Steve...I've got Yo-Zuris too...don't really care for them. These Z-Wings are a different animal, so they're either going to work like I hope, or they're going to be taking up space in my boat :grin: like the Yo-Zuris

Keta...That's an interesting idea [img]graemlins/idea.gif[/img]

[ 04-02-2003, 03:01 PM: Message edited by: Popeye ]

[fishwhenican]

Downrigger line: The info I've read suggests 250 lb spectra rather than 200 lb. http://www.protroll.com/planer.html Scotty's site.
They show a chart to 10 mph, with a 50-60 lb pull on the downrigger.

What I have also read is that the "bigger" fish tend to be caught between 50-75 feet down. A lot of charters on the East coast and Guld states troll plugs at around 5-6kts.

They say that the 50-70 foot range is what seems to work best.

I wanted to stay away from planers because I wanted to get down to the 50 foot range without having 100 foot of cable/handline out. Had enough problems with tangles last year. 2 outriggers from 1" pvc (I know Mark Mc, but I think pvc will work better than bamboo), shorten up the handlines to 60' vs 100', run the outrigger lines back about 100-120' and dredge down deep for DA BIG ONE :grin:

[Booja 1]

Hey Guys just a thought: Anybody try dragging maybe a 3 or 4 lb sinker on the boat lines. Sinker would be shaped like a football with the eyes on each end to attach your cord from the boat on one end and the mono and feather to the other.....

Pilar's Mate: Sounds like you were in West LA then over the hill into the valley. Bet the sunshine was great and the traffic was like our weather,,yucky..I think Conejo's was probably talking "live" anchovies for bait. At times if the water is cold enough the area around Oxnard/Ventura has a terrific salmon bite with limits quite common........

[Orca]

I agree, it looks like it is running pretty flat in the picture. Better buy one of each (and get the $15 Sea Stiker without line, release) to try out before I get too excited and buy too much unusable eqp.

[edsr]

Does anyone have any idea how deep these divers will go ? How deep are we trying to reach,fifty , one hundred, two hundred, three hundred feet?

What kind of cable would these things need if you are traveling at 8mph and how would you attach it to your boat? Inquiring minds want to know.
edsr

[Fishplay]

Anchovie's are a popular bait for salmon at bouy 10. They are in general a bit smaller. About like a yellow label herring. You can buy them fresh from the bait shops.

They work well on the coho. I target big nooks and won't fish anything but the bigest frozen baits I can find. Then cut plug them.

I have the pancake style downrigger weights like the ones shown at the "charkbait.com" site Orca posted. Except mine are 15lb. I'm betting they would reach 40-50 foot range at 6knt with 100ft of cable out.

[jcarufo]

We fish our 500 Z wing in Zihua and Cabo from 30-50feet down with way less than 100ft of seine twine out. Max angle is less than 45 degrees at 6-7 kts. I've also pulled and reset it at speed w/o much trouble. We typically take yellowfin and billfish on them. I agree that not as many as top lines, but almost always a better grade of fish. Yo-zuri bonita's are killer.
When I was a kid working as a deck hand on the sport fishing boats in San Diego, we almost always had at least one of our two boat lines with a 2lb torpedo lead at the head of the leader. We had a big blue marlin come up on a deep jig once and rip our rear rail off before I could jump off the bait tank and pull the jig away from it. The fish seem to be able to see the jigs better if they're 'in' the water rather than on it. The bigger fish are always under the smaller fish even fishing live bait. Not necessaraly more fish just bigger ones.
Jean

[Uglygreen]

John, the Z-wings seem to dive deeper and with less stress than any other system I have seen. And I think there will be some days where they will outfish the top lures based on one day we had last year. We were fishing 3 lines on the surface and one line maybe 20 feet deep on a downrigger. I couldn't get my downrigger any deeper than that. We were about 10 miles north of 125/45 and actully ran into some dory guys from PC. The topwater jigs were not getting touched, but the downrigged lines were getting hit every 5 minutes or so. Would have been a 2 or 3 fish day if it were not for the downrigged line(s).

The Irish out of Newport always used to run one line down, they called it the "meat line" for the obvous reason.

In Zihwatanejo we have always hooked more black and blue marlin on a z-wing at 50 feet trolling a live mackrel or small bonita. Sailfish more on the surface, but the big marlin 50' down.

Our most likely chance for a billfish will be a striped marlin. Talking to several guys that chase these critters regularly in Southern California and Hawaii, the highest percentage bet for us is to catch a live mackrel (I have done this many many times while salmon fishing off Oregon) and troll it 30 to 50 feet down and about 200 feet behind the boat on a Z-wing while albacore fishing at normal 6-8 knot speeds. Is also a good bet for a big bluefin. When those big predators see a bait like that out in the open away from the safety of the school of their buddies it says "free lunch".

Thinking about the Oregon summer conditions, This year in Mexico I tested the Z-wings with both live mackrel and a feather jig and they ran fine all the way up to 12 MPH on the GPS.

UG

PS. Any reports of Mackrel caught while salmon fishing would be greatly appriciated this summer.

[ 04-03-2003, 07:14 AM: Message edited by: Uglygreen ]

[skein]

UG,

Tell us about that big bluefin you caught last year. I've forgotten the particulars.

Skein

[Miss B Haven]

UG- reports are that El nino is subsiding. Doesn't mean that we won't fing some Mackrel out in the Tuna water though. When I was in PV instead of buying bait the guy we took out on a long run (well out of the bay) started trolling fly rigs when we got out in the Blue Water and we caught our own. It was actually a blast and I worew my arms out on these things. A heavy salmon size pole with a rig similar to a shrimp fly rig except the flies were a little smaller. We would hook up 2-4 small bonito or skipjacks at a time. Get 4 of those things swimming togather on a line at 6 knots and you have your hands full!
Anyway- I think dragging a rig like that around while Tuna trolling could pull up some live bait out there! One of the small fly "herring jigs" might work on the smaller bait too! Somethign to think about anyway! [img]graemlins/idea.gif[/img]

[Uglygreen]

Im hoping that there will be mackrel mixed with the tuna... I was thinking small rapalas or shrimp flies. I know that both work.

UG