For the Halibut ...........

[Pilar]

I would make a few notes here. The swivels are 1/0 or 250#. Stainless tends to last a little longer. Any double ferrule (has a channel on each side) from #9 to #11 will work with the 170# coated, stranded wire. Make sure you test the wire and ferrule for fit before you buy either thing. Sportsmens warehouse has killer deals on hootchies. They had almost none of the other parts, though.




This has been much requested lately. Lets talk about rods, reels and what to have handy for May Halibut. At the minimum you will need

~350+ yards of line rated at least 40# (mono) or I suggest 80# spectra. The typical spot is 100 fathoms deep.

~A reel with capacity for above and a smooth star or lever drag. Diawa 50H or Penn 4/0 for me.

~A rod rated 20 to 60 lbs or you can go even heavier. The Ugly Stik Tiger is the perfect choice. Yes I know it a yellow pole, Capt'n.

~A few of the rigs shown above. You can use 'J' hooks if you want to but be sure to fashion an appropriate excuse for why you lost the fish before you do so. The circle hook rig does not require excuses for lost fish.

~A few other things like Harpoon, big net and the ever popular sidearm. People actually shoot fish that weigh only 30 lbs.

~A boat ride, preferably round trip on a trusty boat with an experienced pilot.

~Friendly ocean. This is a challenge in May and I'll be damned if I understand why we have to have a derby fishery then when the weather is so iffy.

[ 03-27-2003, 09:09 AM: Message edited by: Pilar ]

[Kruechief]

John,

How big a hoochie do you use? And it looks like each rig is a one use setup. I mean, if the hoochie gets parted out then can you change it?

Loren

[Bait O' Eggs]

Thanks John,

I have heard 4lbs of weight. Is that the normal??? Do you put on more or less weight in different areas?

[Dynamite]

Pilar,

A couple questions.

Leader material and weight.

Lead options.

Bait.

Maybe 20 feet of lighter mono on the end of your mainline so you do not loose your mainline if you get snagged.

[RFA Janice]

John: The answer is that the "plan," done up by the people who represent you at the state and federal level, calls for a certain percentage of the allowed take to be taken in an early season. We need to get the "plan" changed, but that involves negotiating with Oregon charter interests. The early season favors them, as it keeps the small boats in port and reduces the overall take on individual days if the weather is iffy. Charters very much prefer this, as we small boats would wipe out the quota in one day if the weather allowed, or practically so. Charters are very dependent on income from halibut season, in the thousands of dollars, to have a decent income. We need to negotiate with them, and make common cause at the federal and international level, for improving the allotment. Right now, the trawls are agitating for taking a bunch of halibut, as they are hurting badly in other areas. What is needed? 1)A slight change in the Oregon law: So far no support from ODFW. 2) Recognition at the international level of the reduced trawl kill: Maybe next year (assuming the trawls are unsuccessful in getting things realigned so that they target and land halibut--a fight within the PFMC). 3)Help from our ODFW staff and Commission to open up the share plan: So far, no help. 4)A better shake from Washington State in the allocation plan: This is a political problem which requires Oregon to trade something that Washington wants more than its current over-allocation of halibut. 5)A reassignment of allocation from commercial to sport: So far no hope of understanding from ODFW staff and Commission that commercial is very limited in positive economic impact on Oregon, sports very important in ecomonic impact on Oregon, so sports should get any allocation they are able to utilize.

So, is that more answer than you wanted? Your friend, Janice

[Pilar]

Janice, I keep forgetting that you are involved in this to a degree that I can only imagine. Thank you for caring enough about sportfishing to try to make it better for the rest of us. Your answer makes sense. I did not realize that Wa. got a disproportionate share of the take.

How did that happen?

Yes, I asked you for the time of day and you built me a watch. But it's all good!

Kruechief ... The hootchie is a standard, what 4"? just like you use for Salmon. The key is 'Glow in the dark'. It is very dark at 100 fathoms and the glow makes the fish curious which often results in his demise. Flashing the hootchie before dropping it down makes it really bright. An ordinary camera flash does the trick. You can thread on a new one over the hook but it is difficult. The other thing is to make the hook end of the leader extra long so you can cut it off to put on a new hootchie if you want to. What I do is retire the leaders after one season. The hook end of the leader can be used again on a spreader bar or for lings.

Bait of Eggs .. 4 lbs is necessary when you have a fast drift. I hate to use it but some days nothing else works. Last year on the first days, even 4 lbs would not hit the bottom in 100 fathoms. So we backed into it with the boat idlling in reverse. This allowed us to use 2 or 3 lb and get it down to the fish. It worked but it is pretty spooky backing into a lumpy ocean.

Dynamite .. Ordinary ball lead works great. I assume you are talking about the deep water fishery, yes? Leader material is American Wire, 170# stranded stainless with a dark brown plastic coating on it. They have this at either Fishermans Marine in Portland. They also have the ferrules but it is my experience that it will be hard to find the right size without a special order. They always run out of the hooks and the ferrules. I suppose any stainless stranded wire would work but I have had good luck and results with the ones I mentioned. I have also used the heavy 200# mono leader we also use for tuna. It worked well but I used a different setup and a spreader bar. Bait is usually herring. Fresh caught if possible. Shad, Octopus and Greenling also work well. When you use herring, use 2. Thread the bait on the hook and wrap the heads to the hook eye with bait thread. Pull the skirt down over the bait heads. This prevents the 600 ft bait check when you farm a strike.

By the way, if all you can catch out there is grey or black cod (Sablefish) then cut the belly out of one before you toss it. Include the pectoral fins and use that for bait. I saw this done and could not believe the results. No one was on the halibut until they started using the cod for bait, then all hell broke loose.

Greenling or shad can have one side filleted off and then use the remaining carcass for bait. Greenling works very well this way and also attracts the big Lings.

[Beer Waggin]

Two things that I plan on doing this year to the above mentioned and awesome rigging above are;

1) Tieing the lead to the sliding swivel with 40 or 50 pound mono so that everything isn't lost when you get hung up. This will be done with a very short piece of mono, like nothing longer than an inch.

2) Adding a sliding hook above the circle hook. I'll use either a large "J" hook, or another circle hook.

[Pilar]

NorRivDave, the clip you use for your weight is the key. I bet mono would work. A small clip wil break before your line does. Plan on losing lead, it is cheaper than 600 ft. of tuffline.

The second hook trick is a Wakm & Stakm thing. about 4' above your main rig. According to Dan this really works well, though I can hardly imagine 2 FB's from 600 ft. That would take a while.

[Bait O' Eggs]

Thanks John, I have only fished for FB once and I was in a fair sized craft (about 26 ft) out of Tillamook. I remember backing into the swells but I was either to busy pulling in fish to be nervous, or was just plain ignorant to the fact I was on the verge of death.

[Pilar]

Bait O' Eggs .. I'm not sure you could swamp your boat very easily doing that. Never underestimate the luck of the ignorant, though. Maybe you could hit a breaking wave just right and get water in the boat. What I was concerned about was losing steering, getting crossed up and getting a bunch of tuffline wound up in the prop. If you've ever let go of the wheel while you are backing up, you know what I mean. When we did this, one guy drove the boat full time and 2 fished.

Hanging over the transom and pulling spectra out of the prop ..... nah, I don't want to go there.

[seasquid]

Hey Pilar,

Your response to Bait O' Eggs is correct. You are always backing down out of Garibaldi, thus there is someone (me) always running the boat and two or three fishing -- in fact, I rarely leave the throttle for the fact I know exactly what my boat will do in reverse in a heavy swell.

The big problem with that huge depth is if you have other boats using less than 48 ounces -- they will be drifting at a different speed and you have to manuever around them (in reverse) without getting tangled up with them, you, or the charter 100 yards to the west -- it's crazy stuff. Believe me a three-boat tangle is about as bad as it gets, especially when there are two boats between you and the other guys that you are tangled with.

I know my crew laughs at me at the end of the day because I'm always asking -- "In reverse, reel up the slack" So, while they're laughing, I just say okay -- who is going to be the one to hang over the stern and untangle the line from the prop while the swell is splashing you in the face? Usually stops the laughs pretty quickly.

By the way, what is with the guns anyway? -- just harpoon it and let it do it's thing -- end of fish.

Bring on the tuna!

ss

Is the drift due to wind or current? If it's wind wouldn't a sea anchor help? If it was me I would go into the drift bow first to keep waves out of the boat. Someone should try using downrigers and power drift over the structure with the ball about 10'-20' off the bottom. It might surprise you.

PS:
Squid,
I like to pop them, then bleed and gut ASAP. Harpoon first

[ 03-27-2003, 01:28 PM: Message edited by: Keta ]

[corrirod]

Keta,

The problem is the current drift. The boat steers on a truer course in reverse so it's easier to manage, and, especially in the wind, the bow tends to want to go the other way so you end up fighting it the whole time.

In regards to the downriggers, the depth is between 700-900ft. so once you add in the drift you'll need about a 50lb. ball and 1200 ft. of cable! :shocked:

Seasquid is right, you have to use at least 48 ounces on a normal day, more on a crappy day and less on a flat day.

It literally takes probably 3-4 minutes of free-spooling the reel before you hit bottom. I usually flip the spool, go grab a drink out of the cooler, knock down a doughnut or two, and then go back to the pole to see if we've hit bottom yet!

The worst is when you get bit and don't get a hook-up. Then the quandry begins.......hmmmmmm....."Did he take my bait?"....."Should I reel it up and check?"(which takes about 10 minutes just to reel it up off the bottom).

That trip is NO FUN. It's strickly a freezer filler trip, nothing more.

[ 03-27-2003, 01:42 PM: Message edited by: corrirod ]

[Pilar]

What about the boat ride Rod? You gotta love that boat ride. :grin:

One good thing ... if your boat can make that trip, you can prolly do any trip there is.

[Beer Waggin]

Pilar-
I'm thinking of adding the sliding hook right above the 16/0 circle on the main rig. Two hooks in the bait, one at the tail and one at the head. Think it'll help?
I haven't heard of the 4' up deal, but couldn't imagine reeling in two flatties fighting me and each other. Is that what you refer to as, "A technical problem?"

[corrirod]

Pilar, that's a fact! It's because of those trips I knew I could go for tuna. Definately a good long distance shakedown cruise.

NRD, I don't think you need a double hook. Hooking up with them isn't usually the problem. Breaking off and/or getting everything tangled is my issues. I've gone to using the halibut rigs that have the plastic tubing in the slider section because it seems to keep the hook/bait from wrapping around the main line on the way down. It's also not as cumbersome as the long spreader bars.

[ 03-27-2003, 02:05 PM: Message edited by: corrirod ]

[seasquid]

Do you ever ask yourself sometimes, why do I bother? I know, the adventure, sometimes I think I could go for a little less adventure. But, it's the thrill of the chase, and it sure does taste good.

Damn, that short-bite is a killer Rod...I usually at least have some squid left on the hooks, so I'm not totally bare, but the herring is usually long gone. I particularly love when I'm not paying attention and reeling like a fool, the led ball comes out of the water and about smacks me in the nose....that's always good. Or, this happened to me once, I set the hook and the 80# PowerPro, or whatever it was, snapped three feet from the rod tip...Seasquid went flying backward, almost landing over the side of Seasquid. I made the sporting goods store respool my reel for nothing on that one.

How about a nice lazy 4-foot swell in May? Actually, the last two years in May have been rougher than I remember when I first started -- maybe my memory is going -- damn, Hornitos.

ss

[Pilar]

Hopefully we're way past shakedown when we cross the bar headed for the Chicken Ranch.

All you guys ... don't take this on if you don't have the experience to pull it off safely.

You should already know how much gas you will burn and be very familiar with your compass and plastic jesus. You can learn alot about how your boat runs and what it takes to pilot it on the open water on your first Halibut experience.

That trip is a good one for convincing river boaters that the ocean is a totally different deal. You can tell some of them until blue in the face and they just don't get it. Something about being past seeing distance of land drives home the point.

[tailchaser]

Ok Ok I still have few people ask me about my little halibut trick so I guess I'll have to take a picture tonight and show everyone my rig. It's a pretty cool little deal. It'll also show some people out there a quick way you can make some quality rigs and the hoochie we use. I've noticed a couple of questions I might be able to add some insight too also.

As of the double slider hook, it's not a good idea. Mostly because a single will almost always grab the fish and secondly we tried it once but hooked too many with the second hook in the body and wasn't good on the fish you had to let go. Secondly we get around rebaiting by using a chunk of shad on the hook. Get the hook through it three or four times and the chances of a fish getting that leather off there is almost impossible. Tip it with a herring or squid and you almost always get that second chance at a fish. I've caught four fish on the same bait before without having to put a new piece on. Definitely better than reeling up 400' to see you still had some herring on the hook.

tc

[kenai]

Another trick on the hoochie, fill it with cotton and soak the cotton in some scent. Anything to avoid the bait check at 700'. I dont recommend bow first into the seas either during the drift, it immediataly turned my prop into a spectra magnet.

[Fishplay]

Thanks Janice for sharing all that information.

I am very concerned about the trawlers trying to elbow in on Halibut. These guy's are all about **** and Pilage to depletion. Then simply want to move on to the next species.

We need to do what we can block this move.

Which brings up this Posted by MarkMc.

Please join us in support of Darrel Ticehurst! The sportfishing industry needs a voice within the PFMC now more than ever before.

Happy HaliHunting to all!

[puffins crew]

About getting hung up:

We have found that if you hit bottom, then reel up three or four full cranks, you tend to hook up faster, and do not get hung as often. Halibut are an ambush preditor, and are looking up all the time for something taisty to happen by. If it is dragging on the bottom, the chances of one seeing your offering are diminished.

Just my .02 cents worth.

Peace, Tom

[ 03-27-2003, 12:35 PM: Message edited by: puffins crew ]

[RFA Janice]

John: You asked "How did that happen?" that Washington has more than its share of the allocation. I will tell you. Washington has four votes on the Council because the obligatory Indian seat on the Council votes with Washington because most of the commercial Indian fishing, certainly all of the coastal Indian fishing, is in Washington. Our three votes are outgunned, so we have 2/3 of the fish and get 1/3 of the allocation. What we haven't had is a delegation absolutely devoted to getting sports a fair allocation of halibut. Maybe some non-charter sports representation on the Council will tip the balance a little more in our favor. It may be that California charter interests, well represented on the Council, could be induced to be more supportive, instead of voting with commercial fishermen almost automatically.

I don't mean to inhibit question-asking behavior by punishing it. But I am anxious to get sportfishermen to understanding a little bit of what is affecting them. Sorry. Back to gear, which also interests me a LOT. Janice

[corrirod]

Right on the money Tom. Depending on the amount of drift we will drop to the bottom, reel up a few turns, if we don't get hit soon we open the spool till we hit bottom again and start over. For those that have never fished for flatties in the deep, the drift is a killer. If the water is turned up and murky, and you've got a major drift, make sure you're near the bottom by continually letting out a little line. There have been times when it was so bad I just left my thumb on the spool, after opening the bail, and I continue to let out line until I feel a bit. I flip the bail, wait for another tug, and proceed to yank his bottom lip over his face! :grin:

[NAUTI-NOTIONS]

THE RIGGING LOOKS GREAT , BUT WHERE'S YOUR WEAK LINK? IF YOU GET HUNG UP ON THE BOTTOM WHATS THE FIRST TO GIVE. HALF WAY UP YOUR MAIN LINE SOME WHERE? OUCH, I RUN A SHORT PIECE OF 60# MONO BETWEEN MY MAIN LINE(80# POWER PRO) AND THE START OF THE LEADER( 150# DECOY LINE) FOR THE WEIGHT TO SLIDE ON.

[ 03-28-2003, 06:21 AM: Message edited by: Bumper_Chrome ]

[Pilar]

Bumper_chrome you don't have to shout, I can hear you. :grin:

We fish this not on the bottom. Hit bottom, crank up 3 or 4 turns and drift. You are right about topshots though. I intend to find out more about mono topshots this summer.

[Uglygreen]

One other suggestion, try one of the small (2") chemlight glowsticks with the glow hoochie. Worked very well for us up in Alaska.

John, you want to refresh us on the "suspended" halibut you got into last year?


UG

[Pilar]

Good point, Brad. I don't know if this applies to May Halibut fishing ... but my friend Capt'n Dan taught me something during a trip on the Sea Swan. Mooching for Kings ... and catching lings or halibut or kings. Just drift over the reef with your gear 30 feet off the bottom.

Last summer we discovered something surprising. Bottom dwelling flat fish don't always feed on the bottom. Sometimes they act just like Salmon and come up in the water column to the bait schools. Several nice fish were caught quite by accident while mooching for Kings and Lings virtually right under the boat. So you can change the way you fish a little and have a great chance of hooking a Halibut.

When you get your line way out behind the boat while mooching you risk getting snagged on the bottom. Then all you can do is reel up and drop again. Or maybe use a bigger trolling sinker if the drift is really fast. When you reel up stop cranking every 30 seconds or so and fish for 30 seconds. I'm not sure if the fish are following the bait up from the bottom or what .... but you will get strikes right behind your boat, shortly after you stop cranking.

The other tactic that worked was to fish for salmon on a downrigger with a flasher and whole herring. In depths of 250+ at the north end of Stonewall bank, we drag this rig at depths of 100 to 150 ft. Watch the depth finder and figure out where the bait is and maybe see some salmon too. Then set your downrigger to 10 or 15 feet above the solid line of bait. The first technique was also in the same area.

We caught a huge 72 pounder doing this and we were targeting Kings in June.

Does this work in May? Are there halibut on the Stonewall bank in May?