NW permit hunter's will no longer receive permit's in mail

[shawfowl]

This is a continuation of emails regarding proposals for migratory game birds. The Commission will meet on August 8 in Salem for final season setting. Flyway meetings with the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service have just concluded in Washington, D.C.

Comments I am seeking are in regard to proposed changes in the N.W. Oregon Special Permit Goose Season. In general, the season will remain unchanged and Tillamook County will be open for 2 weeks longer than last year. No changes in bag limits will occur and only slight modifications in county/area quotas.

The biggest non regulatory change will be that you will no longer receive permits in the mail. In the future permits will be available through the *** system where you buy licenses and tags. Permits will become available later this summer. All testing to become certified to hunt will be online and can be accessed on the department's website.

We will be proposing to the Commission that anyone who repeatedly shoots a dusky or has their permit punched for specific violations must attend in person an identification/education class to be recertified. These individuals will no longer just be able to retake the exam online to have their permit reinstated. The main purpose of this class is to assist hunters so they can avoid mistakes in the future and maintain their hunting opportunities throughout the entire hunting season.

Recording and checking out of all geese (dusky and non-dusky) has been the cornerstone of keeping this season operational. We will also be asking the Commission to approve a new rule that if a hunter’s permit is punched due to failure to check out any geese, they will not only lose their hunting privileges in the permit goose zone for the remainder of the season but also for the next two seasons. They would then be eligible to attend the identification/education class to have their permit reinstated. This rule is deemed necessary as the most important contribution hunters can make to protect this hunting opportunity is to be sure to check in all geese. This adds credibility to the hunt and will allow the state to pursue possible liberalizations in the future or maintain the use of hunting as an option if the dusky population continues in a downward trend. There truly is no excuse for not checking out geese as hunters know this is a requirement prior to participation. Cooperation is greatly needed to ensure the future of this hunt.

There have been some concerns raised by hunters about check stations locations especially with rising costs of fuel. While we have no additional funds to open more check stations, and have no plans for relocating check stations, the department is evaluating the potential to allow hunters to check in at an additional check station based on the county they are hunting in.

Please pass your thoughts on to me prior to August 8. Thanks again for everyone's input.


Brad Bales
Migratory Game Bird Program
Oregon Department of Fish and Wildlife
3406 Cherry Avenue, NE
Salem, OR 97303
Telephone 503.947.6322
Cell 503.381.7621
Fax 503.947.6330
email bradley.d.bales@state.or.us

[crawdad]

Brad, I will send an e-mail copy of this reply as well,

One policy change I would like to see considered involves what happens when a person takes a dusky towards the end of the season. I would like to see that person lose their permit privileges for a one year period rather than just the rest of the season. It seems to me that some people are intentionally harvesting duskys or at least being less vigilant about careful identification before they shoot as the season draws near. This of course also pushes up the qouta and can shorten the season for the rest of us. Impossing a 12 month suspension rather than suspending them for the remainder of the season would probably help. Thanks for your interest in our input as always.

Oh and on another topic, whatever happend to the idea of seperating the merganser limit from the duck limit. Honestly I can't see any logical reason not to do it.The only reason I saw stated was that it might lead to confusion. I just don't buy the argument that it would make things too complicated. You get 7 ducks and 7 mergs, how hard is that to understand? Other flyways do it this way with no problem, and we are the ones with salmon smolts to worry about. Thanks again.

[Gun Rod Bow]

Originally Posted by shawfowl

There have been some concerns raised by hunters about check stations locations especially with rising costs of fuel. While we have no additional funds to open more check stations, and have no plans for relocating check stations, the department is evaluating the potential to allow hunters to check in at an additional check station based on the county they are hunting in.

I have sent this in e-mail form before....

I cannot for the life of me imagine why you don't allow birds to be checked in at ANY check station and just require the hunter to declare the county they were hunting in upon check in.

If making it easier for hunters to check in is a desire, and some stations currently check multiple counties, why over think it? Just let hunters use the station that is on their way home, regardless of where they live/and the station is.

I want to see 100% compliance and can't help but think this would help.

[CarBiz]

Originally Posted by crawdad

One policy change I would like to see considered involves what happens when a person takes a dusky towards the end of the season. I would like to see that person lose their permit privileges for a one year period rather than just the rest of the season. It seems to me that some people are intentionally harvesting duskys or at least being less vigilant about careful identification before they shoot as the season draws near. This of course also pushes up the qouta and can shorten the season for the rest of us. Impossing a 12 month suspension rather than suspending them for the remainder of the season would probably help. Thanks for your interest in our input as always.

So youre implying that someone who were to accidently harvest a Dusky in the third period should be suspended for a year????? Lets not forget that the Dusky quota was designed for accidental harvest of Duskys. A year suspension will not stop an accident. How are you going to prove that someone was less vigilant about their ID???

To me the real increasing problem with the Dusky harvest is the trophy hunters coming to the Permit Zone to get a Dusky for the wall. As well as new Permit Zone hunters who shoot first and ID later. Weve all seen them at the check stations asking the ODFW staff what subspecies their birds are.

In the end I wish they would put a stop to the online test and go back to inperson testing...Also wish that an inperson class would be required to recieve the permit. I dont see the point in requiring it after someone has repeatedly harveted Duskys.

Better education leads to less Dusky harvest.

CB

[Bill Monroe]

Originally Posted by Gun Rod Bow

I have sent this in e-mail form before....

I cannot for the life of me imagine why you don't allow birds to be checked in at ANY check station and just require the hunter to declare the county they were hunting in upon check in.

If making it easier for hunters to check in is a desire, and some stations currently check multiple counties, why over think it? Just let hunters use the station that is on their way home, regardless of where they live/and the station is.

I want to see 100% compliance and can't help but think this would help.

Good point, Bruce, especially given gas prices. I've asked Brad in an email...

[TheJester357]

You know, two years ago I got my ticket punched for shooting a legal bird, on a legal day, with a legal gun and ammo, with the correct liscenses and permits, in a legal manner, and then found that the saltwater has rusted the ball in my only ink pen. I tried to tag it with a pencil, and still got the ticket while we were picking up decoys to head back to the truck to find a pen that works.

Now you tell me this, does this give you a warm and fuzzy feeling about more restrictions comming down the pipe? I lost 2 periods of hunting because I tried to be responsible rather than kicking it into the bushes, and the state cop has his hands tied with a "zero tolerance policy". All this, and we still hear in the same sentence that we are a vital role in policing our own ranks and saving the farmers from depredation. No sir, not again.

I'll get off my soap box now.

Bob

[crawdad]

Jester, that sounds like a real bummer. I can't tell if your post is in reply to mine or not. I have had to make a mad dash for the truck because I needed to mark my salmon tag and had a bad pen. I know the feeling. If your reply is to my post however I can just say that what I propose has nothing to do with that situation.

Carbiz, if you accidentally take a Dusky at the beginning of the season and it is an honest mistake you lose the entire season. If you make the same honest mistake at the end of the season you lose nothing. All I am suggesting is that the same mistake bring on the same result. I may very well be the one to make the mistake someday. I don't see how haveing a level playing field for everyone is unfair.

The fact is that people are targeting duskys at the end of the season because they have nothing to lose. If you don't believe me search the archives here. A couple years ago people were actually bragging about it. A poll showed that a MAJORITY of people on this board would intentionally target a colored dusky if the season was drawing to a close. Other people are just getting sloppy at the end of the season because they know there are no real reprercussions. I don't think it is fair for people who do the same thing at the begining of the season lose the entire season and people who do it at the end face nothing. Honest hunters see their season shortened if the qouta gets reached. It is about extending the season for honest hunters. People who make honest mistakes would have the SAME consequences regardless of when they make them. Right now the system is unfair. I am proposing a way to make it fair and potentially extend the season for the rest of us.

GunRodBow make a very good point.

[Bill Monroe]

I constantly check my pens...always know where it is...always hunt with someone who has one. Just a thought. Do the same when I'm salmon, sturgeon or halibut fishing as well.

[CarBiz]

Originally Posted by TheJester357

You know, two years ago I got my ticket punched for shooting a legal bird, on a legal day, with a legal gun and ammo, with the correct liscenses and permits, in a legal manner, and then found that the saltwater has rusted the ball in my only ink pen. I tried to tag it with a pencil, and still got the ticket while we were picking up decoys to head back to the truck to find a pen that works.

Now you tell me this, does this give you a warm and fuzzy feeling about more restrictions comming down the pipe? I lost 2 periods of hunting because I tried to be responsible rather than kicking it into the bushes, and the state cop has his hands tied with a "zero tolerance policy". All this, and we still hear in the same sentence that we are a vital role in policing our own ranks and saving the farmers from depredation. No sir, not again.

I'll get off my soap box now.

Bob

Bob, I couldnt agree more...

I do have one word for ya...SHARPIE...they never rust. I keep a couple in my blind bag at all times.

CB

[Rogue Hunter]

ITS SIMPLE,UTILIZE THE RESOURCES WE HAVE. A CHECK STATION IS A CHECK STATION,WE SHOULD BE ABLE TO USE THE CLOSEST ONE AVABLE.MOST PEOPLE DO NOT CHECK THERE BIRDS IN AT ALL SO MAKING IT MORE SIMPLE MIGHT HELP. ALSO ADD THE CULMEN LENGTH MEASUREMENT PROCEDURE TO THE TESTING CURRICULUM USING A DIGITAL DIAL INDICATOR.THAT WAY PEOPLE ARE SURE OF WHAT THEY ARE PUTTING IN THERE BAG LIMMIT AND DONT KEEP SHOOTING AFTER THAT FIRST 42MM.THE BIO USES ONE WHY NOT THE HUNTERS JUST MAKES MORE SENSE TO AID IN ID OF THE BIRD.

[Dave Smith]

Well, since I guess we're sharing, this is the email I sent to Brad on Friday:

Brad, I am 100% FOR all of these proposals. On the issue of not checking geese in, nothing could work as well as simply having more officers and more enforcement, but I think just this rule alone would really get the point across how important it is to check your geese in. On the check station locations, I think that's a great compromise. Much better than the current system and better than allowing geese to be checked in at ANY check station. I know I speak for alot of people when I say that we really enjoy this hunt and appreciate all the effort it takes to make it happen. If this hunt was less restrictive, it would have way too many people hunting to make it enjoyable so we are all-in. THANKS!!
Dave Smith

[Bobberman]

Originally Posted by CarBiz

Bob, I couldnt agree more...

I do have one word for ya...SHARPIE...they never rust. I keep a couple in my blind bag at all times.

CB

Can you legally use a felt tip marker?

[sprigkiller09]

Originally Posted by Bobberman

Can you legally use a felt tip marker?

You can. As long as it is legable. Dont forget to plastic bag em also guys. Nothing like a paper machee tag that you have to write on.

I am also in for all ODFW's proposals as they really seem to be making a compromise to ensure better data. Its pretty important. One thing i said i would like to see was more ID training for first year check station personnel and more importantly i am not to keen on the idea of online test taking. I really dont think people learn ID by sitting there and going back and forth between the study guide and the test. This is obvious by some of the people at the check station who asked me what i had in my bag. Or telling me i will get a ticket if i bring those four cacks in when i had two tavs and two cacks. But other than that i am pleased with ODFW's proposal.

Dont forget also guys there is going to be a Goose ID seminar at the Oregon waterfowl festival so come brush up on your ID and ask questions.

[TheJester357]

Originally Posted by sprigkiller09

You can. As long as it is legable. Dont forget to plastic bag em also guys. Nothing like a paper machee tag that you have to write on.

I am also in for all ODFW's proposals as they really seem to be making a compromise to ensure better data. Its pretty important. One thing i said i would like to see was more ID training for first year check station personnel and more importantly i am not to keen on the idea of online test taking. I really dont think people learn ID by sitting there and going back and forth between the study guide and the test. This is obvious by some of the people at the check station who asked me what i had in my bag. Or telling me i will get a ticket if i bring those four cacks in when i had two tavs and two cacks. But other than that i am pleased with ODFW's proposal.

Dont forget also guys there is going to be a Goose ID seminar at the Oregon waterfowl festival so come brush up on your ID and ask questions.

How bout some help in how to identify a check station wait of longer than an hour......

If you want to improve the number of birds being checked, improve the speed at which they can be checked through the station. I've been to weddings that don't take as long to get through.

Bob

[Rogue Hunter]

I Agree Faster Check Stations Would Be Helpfull.

[CarBiz]

Originally Posted by Bobberman

Can you legally use a felt tip marker?

I use one everytime...Regs say mark in ink and its ink...you do have to be careful becuase it will run and bleed badly on the harvest cards. I guess I always assumed they would be fine...I have never had anyone give me a bad time about them.

I actually used to laminate all of my harvest cards and us a fine tip sharpie to fill them out...I did this many times and checked geese in at two different check stations before someone gave me a hard time and I stopped. I was actually checked by Fed USFW Agents who actually told me what a good idea it was only to be told by a check station attendant to stop doing that.

Whatever...

CB

[Jeremy]

Are they looking for feedback on the mailing of permits only? While we are at it, we should suggest that they stop sending out the succesfull/unsucessful post cards to every single person that applies for a controlled hunt, just tell people to call or look online to see the results of the controlled hunt draw. seems like that would save a lot more money then sending out a handful of permits.

[On point]

I agree with GRB that we should be able to bring birds to any check station and just declare what county we took the birds in.
Also, my two cents regarding losing your permit for accidentally taking a Dusky - no matter which period in which you shoot a Dusky you will forfeit your hunting rights for 2 more periods. If you took one this year in period 1 you wait until period 1 next season. If you got one in period 2 you have to wait until period 2 next season and so on. Also, you should have to take the test in person to improve your bird ID skills.
And, new check station personnel do need better training. The wait has been pretty long especially during period 1 when folks were checking in limits. They get better as the season goes on but should be able to "hit the ground running" on day 1.

[Bobberman]

Originally Posted by CarBiz

I use one everytime...Regs say mark in ink and its ink...you do have to be careful becuase it will run and bleed badly on the harvest cards. I guess I always assumed they would be fine...I have never had anyone give me a bad time about them.

I actually used to laminate all of my harvest cards and us a fine tip sharpie to fill them out...I did this many times and checked geese in at two different check stations before someone gave me a hard time and I stopped. I was actually checked by Fed USFW Agents who actually told me what a good idea it was only to be told by a check station attendant to stop doing that.

Whatever...

CB

Thanks for the tip, I assumed that the rule was the same as the fishing combined tag(ball point only)

[QH's Paw]

Originally Posted by TheJester357

How bout some help in how to identify a check station wait of longer than an hour......

If you want to improve the number of birds being checked, improve the speed at which they can be checked through the station. I've been to weddings that don't take as long to get through.

Bob

Guess I've found a sweet spot for checking geese. The only people I've ever been behind at the station are the people I hunted with.
Honestly guys, what do you expect from the youngsters that work the station for $8/hr.
How about this...we all pay $10 for the permit every year. The state puts 3-4 more game Troopers in the field for the permit area and makes sure there are a minimum of 3 stations per county.
Oh, I almost forgot...and a chicken in every pot.

[CarBiz]

Originally Posted by Bobberman

Thanks for the tip, I assumed that the rule was the same as the fishing combined tag(ball point only)

The sharpie works great...

However after talking with the checks station attd. I wont ever laminate my cards again. They say its too easy to smudge and wash off information... Too risky for me so now I just double zip-lock everything and hope for the best.

CB

[adipose]

Jester357; I hope you took the ticket to court and declared not guilty?

and offered to do volunteer work assisting in the education of these actions for the public; which probably would of got your ticket dropped.

[waterfowlin101]

My only concern is regarding dark lessers that fall under the category of "dusky". We all know they exist, and it is a darn shame that ethical and legal hunters have had their tags punched for birds that are inbred (not true Darkies). It has not happened to me yet, but it's only a matter of time. There is little I can do to battle this, set aside passing on flocks what should be legal birds.

Other than that, I feel the system works just fine for me. I love hunting the permit zone and can't wait till the flocks start showing up!!!

Yeah buddy!

[TheJester357]

Originally Posted by crawdad

Jester, that sounds like a real bummer. I can't tell if your post is in reply to mine or not. I have had to make a mad dash for the truck because I needed to mark my salmon tag and had a bad pen. I know the feeling. If your reply is to my post however I can just say that what I propose has nothing to do with that situation.

Sorry, Didn't mean to make it sound like it was pointed at you. I get very frustrated when they try to add more hoops for us to jump through to catch the guys that try to get around the system. Anyone who purposefully disobeys the law should be prosecuted, but adding more stumbling blocks for the rest of us that strive to do it right just adds to the frustration. I can understand why hunter numbers are dwindling with all of the crap that the Gov feels is necessary to regulate us as hunters and sportsmen. Just my 2 cents.

Bob

[live to fish]

i went to a *** yesterday and asked about getting my permit for this year and they know nothing about it.