MARINE SAFETY... EPIRBs

Ken, USCG FV Safety · 03-20-2003, 08:14 AM

Good day, all,

I am going to try to split topics into separate threads, if for no reason other than my confusion. So, this one is for EPIRBs.

"Orca" asked about EPIRB response from the Coast Guard. First, it is important to understand the truly fundamental differences between the types of devices out there. If you are talking about the older style of 121.5 MHz, sometimes called a "Mini-B," then the device is transmitting a continuous sweeping tone on an int'l distress freq. This is good for vessels and aircraft with listening and DF capability, and will bring the rescue platform right on top of you. (Note, the 406 MHz EPIRB also has a 121.5 transmitter built-in for direction finding.) The problem is that the mini-B doesn't ID you, and the satellite system takes two consecutive "hits" from different satellites before the system recognizes it as a valid distress signal. This is because of the huge problem of false alerts, and could mean you might have to wait several (read as 3 to 6) hours before a response. This is OK if you are in a raft or a good survival suit, but otherwise...

The 406 MHz is considered a valid distress signal as soon as the first satellite picks up the transmission. The CG isn't going to wait for a verbal MAYDAY on the radio. Likewise, if your wife is at Nordies or M&F, we will still respond. It might mean that the SAR is slightly delayed while we wait for a polar satellite to feed us the lat/long, but we're coming. The assumption with all 406 MHz signals is that we are at full speed (to the best of the data we have available) until a CG person actually puts eyes on the unit and reads back the ID code to Seattle. Toast, no. Cold, maybe, but that's up to you.

When I have some more time I'll discuss PLBs and manually activated EPIRBs.

seasquid · 03-20-2003, 09:20 AM

Thanks Ken,

When you have a chance -- do you know anything about the new Personal 406s that are slated for the market in July? A rep was at Englund's yesterday -- cost will be in the $500 ballpark. I guess they are already being used in Canada, since they have been approved in that country.

ss

Marty · 03-20-2003, 07:52 PM

Steve, I was under the impression that the personal Epirbs were for land use only and not suitable for floatation or prolonged water exposure. Maybe Ken will clarify.

Nice talkin to you last week.

Marty

Orca · 03-20-2003, 11:47 PM

Thanks Ken, this is just what I needed to know. I happen to have a 406 with a GPS interface, so I believe I am set.

Sure appreciate you helping us here. I will boat easier now knowing that my EPIRB will be effective when needed.

skein · 03-21-2003, 01:47 PM

I just looked out on ebay and there were some 406's, both satellite and GPS versions, new-in-box. The satellite's are available for $550 and the GPS version could be had for $835. Both those seem like pretty good deals to me - maybe not steals, but not bad either.

Anyone got any thoughts? I'm just interested in some dialog.

(Starting to look seriously at boat jewelry.)

Skein

Marty · 03-21-2003, 03:48 PM

Skein, at go2marine.com they are having specials on the Pain Wessex manual gps/epirb (406) for $799.99. Not sure about the shipping costs, but I e-mailed them to see if I purchased 2 or 3 if they would be willing to drop the price a little. This is the best pricing I have found on a gps/epirb. I will keep you posted if they offer a discount.

Marty

Marty · 03-21-2003, 04:12 PM

Skein

I called the store at go2marine.com and we would have to buy 10 or 15 to get a discount. There is just no margin there. The price is good til April 4th. and then it is going up $80.00. Unless I find something cheaper, I think I will buy this unit. Had a long talk with the Pain Wessex reps and they soound like they will really stand behind their products.

Marty

Orca · 03-21-2003, 08:01 PM

The unit I have is the ACR RAPIDFIX 406 CAT 2 EPIRB - W/BRACKET and GPS interface at Boatfix.com for $635 (you need to interface your GPS, it is not built in). I have a Garmin eTrex strapped to mine. You could strap a refurbed Garmin eTrex to it from GPSCity.com for $95 plus shipping. And, you will need the cable to attach to the GPS and EPIRB. I could help with cable setup/aquisition if BoatFix doesn't have it. There are other sources for the Garmin connectors, and I believe the EPIRB comes with the connector for its side of the interface. If you already have a GPS aboard with a NEMA 0813 output, you would just need to wire from it to the EPIRB

Cat II means it is manually deployed and does not automatically release from its bracket upon sinking. It will however activate when immersed in water, so you just need to grab it on the way out or stash it in the ditch bag. The CAT I (automatically deployed) w/GPS interface is $750

Everybody needs to get the catalog from BoatFix - 700 pages of pure heaven.

[ 03-21-2003, 09:44 PM: Message edited by: Orca ]

Gregotis98 · 03-22-2003, 10:49 AM

I was thinking of buying the RapidFix ACR but as I understand, it only updates it's gps location info every 20min when plugged into the gps, and no updates when not connected. A person can travel pretty far in those 20min. The location time goes from 1hr with the Satellite2 406 to 5min with the RapidFix 406 so there's a longer wait time, but if the last update with the gps was 19min you've traveled pretty far from where the original signal was. I think this is how it works but might be wrong.

Orca · 03-22-2003, 12:36 PM

Would have to check the manual, but I think when you flip the lever, it gets an update. You then toss the GPS if needed and ditch. The EPIRB has a 121 MHz homing freq as well. The chopper will home in on the 121 as it tavels to the reported location, so even if you have traveled 15 miles since the last GPS update they won't be searching around where you are not.

Gregotis98 · 03-22-2003, 02:17 PM

That makes sense.

gimmeumpqua · 03-22-2003, 04:24 PM

Thanks for the tip Marty....I just bought the Pains for $799 at Go marine,I agree, the best deal out there for an integral GPS Epirb.

Kurt

fishwhenican · 03-24-2003, 06:01 PM

I just got a e-mail back from the www.theEPIRBstore.com
They expect the PLB to be apprx. $550.00, and the GPS model PLB to be apprx $800.00. They are waterproof to 1 meter, and float. I like the size on the PLB, and that it has other uses besides marine. Both the go2marine and the boatfix deals look appealing though.

Miss B Haven · 03-25-2003, 02:58 PM

Not sure about you guys, but the automatic versions kinda leave me wondering. They don't deploy until the unit is well under the surface (like 3 or 6 meters or something). Now - If the boat is rolled but still floating I'm not sure I want it to sink all the way so the dang EPIRB will deploy! :shocked: You gotta wonder what happens if the boat rolls over too. Will it still deploy or get caught upside down in the holder? I haven't read anything technical about the deployment. A dang hundred articles about the transmission capabilities between versions, but ziltch on the deployment. [img]graemlins/stupid.gif[/img]
What's the opinion? Auto? Manual? bracket on the boat? In a floating ditch bag?(hmmm...floating ditch bag, I think I dated her once :shocked: - long time before Tuni

).

Marty · 03-26-2003, 09:06 PM

Mel, Personally I think the manuals are the best unit and especially for the price. You can turn the manuals on when there is emminent danger and the coast guard will get the signal in 3 to 4 minutes. I believe the cat. 1 epirb's can be turned on manually also, when in distress or will automatically turn on in the water. I can't forsee very many situations where I wouldn't have the time to turn the unit on and get into my survival suit before the boat would actually sink.

Marty

Ken, USCG FV Safety · 03-28-2003, 12:42 PM

Good day, y'all,

Seems like there are two common topics going on here, which I'll address:

First, the PLB... this is a cool piece of gear. Head and shoulders above the old 121.5 MHz mini-B. All the advantages of the 406 MHz SARSAT system, in a smaller, less expensive package. Soon to be "legal" in the lower-48, they have already saved dozens of distressed hunters, surveyors, snow-machiners, and others in Alaska's trial program. SAR response to PLBs will be a bit different initially, going thru state-run rescue coordination, until the position or contact info identify the source as being at-sea, at which point the Coast Guard becomes the responder. I doubt if there is any significant time difference involved, and certainly if the PLB is providing GPS position (either externally or internal), then the call goes immediately to either the state or the Coast Guard, depending on whether you are on top of Mt Hood or off Stonewall Bank.

The PLBs are watertight, and will float, however they may not float right-side up. This means that you can you use it in the marine environment, but it needs to be attached to your body or your vessel, in order to work correctly. My manufacturer's rep buddy tells me that the PLB will broadcast a morse-code "P" on 121.5 MHz instead of the EPIRB's sweeping tone, so that the rescue platform that homes in on the PLB signal will know that they are looking for something small (like a person in the water). I think these sound like a good idea.

Second, Float-free vs Manually activated... I have long advised commercial fishermen on smaller vessels that given the choice (as commercial vessels less than 36-ft long are) between Cat.1 and Cat. 2, the thing to remember is that the Cat. 1 must be pushed far enough underwater to trip the hydrostatic release. That depth for a Hammar is about 9-feet (a few years ago we tested 59 expired hydros, and 57 of them tripped within 6-inches of that depth, and the other two within a foot). So, if you mount the bracket where it won't be pushed at least 9-feet underwater, don't expect the thing to release itself. On the other hand, if YOU don't deliberately take the Cat. 2 with you in an emergency, it won't do you ANY good. It is a trade-off, but a properly drilled and instructed crew that knows to take the Cat. 2 with them is better in my mind.

Physically, both types are identical once out of the bracket or mount: they both automatically activate when they hit the water, and they both can be manually turned on (and off). I think I like "Miss B Haven's" idea of the floating ditch bag. Sounds prudent.

Have a nice weekend!