How do you rig and fish live bait for tuna?

Chesapeake · 07-30-2008, 04:12 PM

I've never fished live bait except for a few times off the SanClemente pier. We just hooked the small mackerel we jigged up behind the back of the head, dropped them down and let them swim around till a shark grabbed them.

Can someone do a picture post, or get caried away with a detailed write up?

Freakwater · 07-30-2008, 04:23 PM

Collar hook for anchovie is easy...

I grabbed this pic from google. The hook in this chovie has more bite than necessary. That might make for a lame bait. Hold a fresh chovie in your hand with the head toward your thumb and index finger. Press down on the nose of the bait with your index finger to open the gill flap. There is a hard collar/bone? behind the gill flap. Stick the hook in as shown in the pic, but you just have to get around the collar. It will hold the bait on while doing little damage.

Either look for jumpers to stop on or troll to find them. You can cast live bait to jumpers so you don't risk putting them down by stopping on top of them. To troll for them, put out a few lines that are easy to clear. Immediately stop the boat on a hookup. Have 1/2 your crew clear trolling lines while the rest get bait in the water. Chum out your dead floaters or weak looking baits and put the feisty ones on your line.(feisty bait catches tuna, lame baits catch sharks) When stopping on a trolled hookup, just freespool your reel and drop your bait in and let your bait swim away, keeping your thumb on the spool. The pick-up is usually not very dramatic. The tuna are usually swimming fairly slow and just pick up the bait and keep swimming. You'll certainly know when it's happening, just take the reel out of freespool and put a bend in the rod. If you are having a hard time getting bit, try putting a little splitshot or rubber core weight about 3 feet in front of your bait to get your bait down into deeper fish. If you don't get bit within about 3 minutes, get a fresh bait or you are likely to get bit by a shark. Keep bait in the water, best on your crews lines, but every once and a while you may want to chum a couple baits to keep the bite going. When the sharks show up in numbers, the parties over.

Freakwater

smalldog · 07-30-2008, 05:20 PM

On average...how big are these sharks?

StickFish · 07-30-2008, 05:28 PM

We ran into everything from small Blues to 8' blues last year. Freakwater had a Mako on the year before - same boat. There are other ways to hook you bait as well, but I'm hardly an expert at this. Tackle Time gave a session on live bait at the SD convention, he suggested the nose and they swin away, by the dorsal they swim down a bit, by the tail they go straight down. Scrub an eye out and the spiral.

Biggest pain was the darn rats with wings, caught three of those and a couple sharks before I got the hang of it.

If the bait doesn't act lively on the hook reel it up fast and chuck it and get a new one. They should easily take line on free spool.

Freakwater · 07-30-2008, 05:44 PM

Oh, and most importantly, once you hookup yell, "FRESH ONE!" There is no good reason to, but it sounds cool!

Tinman · 07-30-2008, 08:21 PM

I heard the live bait presentation at the convention, and disagree with almost everything that the presenter said. But I learned the trade on the So Cal sportboats, which is admittedly a different set of circumstances.

Tie a live bait hook (usually a size 2, depending on bait size) directly to the end of the mono line. No leader, no swivel, no nothing.

Collar-hook a 'chovy, fish it in freespool. Keep the rod tip more or less pointed at the bait. When you get bit, feed a few feet of line and drop the reel into gear.

Go for the liveliest bait you can. Change bait as soon as it becomes sluggish (assuming you have ample supply)

Jakiedog · 07-30-2008, 09:27 PM

That collar hooked bait in the picture looks to be hooked a little high.

FishFood · 07-30-2008, 10:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Freakwater

Collar hook for anchovie is easy...

I grabbed this pic from google. The hook in this chovie has more bite than necessary. That might make for a lame bait. Hold a fresh chovie in your hand with the head toward your thumb and index finger. Press down on the nose of the bait with your index finger to open the gill flap. There is a hard collar/bone? behind the gill flap. Stick the hook in as shown in the pic, but you just have to get around the collar. It will hold the bait on while doing little damage.

Either look for jumpers to stop on or troll to find them. You can cast live bait to jumpers so you don't risk putting them down by stopping on top of them. To troll for them, put out a few lines that are easy to clear. Immediately stop the boat on a hookup. Have 1/2 your crew clear trolling lines while the rest get bait in the water. Chum out your dead floaters or weak looking baits and put the feisty ones on your line.(feisty bait catches tuna, lame baits catch sharks) When stopping on a trolled hookup, just freespool your reel and drop your bait in and let your bait swim away, keeping your thumb on the spool. The pick-up is usually not very dramatic. The tuna are usually swimming fairly slow and just pick up the bait and keep swimming. You'll certainly know when it's happening, just take the reel out of freespool and put a bend in the rod. If you are having a hard time getting bit, try putting a little splitshot or rubber core weight about 3 feet in front of your bait to get your bait down into deeper fish. If you don't get bit within about 3 minutes, get a fresh bait or you are likely to get bit by a shark. Keep bait in the water, best on your crews lines, but every once and a while you may want to chum a couple baits to keep the bite going. When the sharks show up in numbers, the parties over.

Freakwater

"The pick-up is usually not very dramatic. "

Are you kidding? I'm sorry but I've fished tuna on live bait for 20 years, and the pick-up is nothing if not dramatic. Tuna are bait crashers, and they are not swimming slow in my experience. When a tuna hits your bait, you're usually hard pressed to throw the reel into gear before you lose fifty feet, and it's not uncommon for the hit to be so hard it just rips off the bait. I don't know if I'm missing something here, but it's certainly not my experience of tuna.

Chrome Bumper · 07-30-2008, 10:30 PM

I dunno, the hook in the picture looks large for that bait and light. Extra heavy hooks won't get straightened. Looks like a bait holder, not a live bait hook. Ringed hooks work good by letting the bait swim better, some guys can tie a loop to do the same thing but I have 10 thumbs and bad eyes.

Ya, that bait does look hooked a bit high and to deep too. You want the bait to be lively.

As for fishing, drop it at the corner of the boat when the troll poles go off, use the first live bait hooked fish to draw additional bites, throw some sick bait in as chum, and hope the bait stop gets going good. The party is over when the sharks show up and start cutting lines to hooked fish and taking baitfish.

BrianMaguire · 07-31-2008, 01:54 AM

I'm a newb but fished quite a few in the short time on bait. 93 fish this year most on bait. If you are feeding the frenzy, it don't matter how you hook them. If they still are not boiling then hook them through the gills so the little guys can swim out. I completly disagree on the free spool, put it in gear, the tuna will set the hook on the strike, in the mouth, my experience with free spool is they swallow the bait/hook and you hook them deeper in the mouth and you will loose more fish when the teeth cut the line.

colbachlaw · 07-31-2008, 06:43 AM

In my very short (two trips last week) livebait career, I have found that the tuna were not too particular. Collar hook a fresh bait and if you don't get a fish in a couple of minutes, change baits or move.

When they were boiling the most important thing was to keep a steady upply of bait out so they stayed around the boat. After that, everything seemed to work. We caught fish on swimbaits, iron, and livebait.

If the fish are boiling, pretty much everything worked.

Buy lots of bait and start throwing it out every time you stop for a troll caught fish. On friday we plugged the boat on the first stop. On saturday we plugged the boat with three or four stops, with only two of them bringing the fish to the surface.

Once you fish livebait, trolling will never be the same again.

Mike C

Pau Hana · 07-31-2008, 06:46 AM

3 ways I hook a live bait:

Shallow running bait:
collar hook or hook crosswise thru nose

Deep running bait:
hook thru the anal vent (make sure you push the hook thru the side of the body, and not thru the gut area!)

Pau Hana · 07-31-2008, 06:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BrianMaguire

I'm a newb but fished quite a few in the short time on bait. 93 fish this year most on bait. If you are feeding the frenzy, it don't matter how you hook them. If they still are not boiling then hook them through the gills so the little guys can swim out. I completly disagree on the free spool, put it in gear, the tuna will set the hook on the strike, in the mouth, my experience with free spool is they swallow the bait/hook and you hook them deeper in the mouth and you will loose more fish when the teeth cut the line.

Can't agree with you on keeping the reel in gear- flyline the live bait, and when it gets picked up, give it a 3 count before throwing the reel into gear.

The teeth of an albacore aren't too much to worry about.

Hamachi · 07-31-2008, 06:58 AM

I hook them through the tip of the lower jaw and up through the nose forward of the eyes.

When retrieving your bait it will move in a natural swimming manner - where you still might get bit!

Hamachi · 07-31-2008, 07:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BrianMaguire

I'm a newb but fished quite a few in the short time on bait. 93 fish this year most on bait. If you are feeding the frenzy, it don't matter how you hook them. If they still are not boiling then hook them through the gills so the little guys can swim out. I completly disagree on the free spool, put it in gear, the tuna will set the hook on the strike, in the mouth, my experience with free spool is they swallow the bait/hook and you hook them deeper in the mouth and you will loose more fish when the teeth cut the line.

Half of the fun is your bait getting picked up... and the few seconds of line screaming off your reel... flipping it in gear... pointing it at him... the line getting tight... rearing back... FISH ON!!!

Tinman · 07-31-2008, 09:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BrianMaguire

. I completly disagree on the free spool, put it in gear, the tuna will set the hook on the strike, in the mouth, my experience with free spool is they swallow the bait/hook and you hook them deeper in the mouth and you will loose more fish when the teeth cut the line.

The main point of live bait fishing is presenting a lively bait. A bait that streaks off the moment it hits the water. A bait that darts off in terror, peeling line from the spool. The whole specialized art of flylining is toward that one goal, the only goal: PRESENTING A LIVELY BAIT IN THE WATER.

If you fish with the reel in gear, the bait is on a tether and can't run. Fish in freespool, with barely a whisper of thumb pressure. Let the anchovy run. Point the rod at the bait to minimize line friction through the guides.

Lively bait, lively bait, lively bait! That's why flylining gear is so specialized. Everything is tailored to allow the bait to run, run, run. Light line, small reels, and super-light graphite spools all help minimize drag and let the bait run.

Finally, that's why very small hooks are often used. To an anchovy, a hook is like a boat anchor attached to his neck. The bigger the boat anchor (hook), the slower he swims. A size 2 is usually about right, but match it to the bait size. Don't be shy about dropping down to a size 4.

When the albacore are hot, they'll hit a sluggish bait. But when they are spooky, they want lively.

Chrome Bumper · 07-31-2008, 09:32 AM

Shoot I feed the line down the guides and try to have lots of slack in freespool, when they grab it count to 5 or so before engaging drag. The hook usually gets the corner of the mouth. #2 heavy pattern ringed bait hook is the goto. Cheap ones work, and you can cut the line and tie on a new one pretty quick. Spendy ones work better. 20# mono, I like a salmon type pole, the stiffer poles are hard on the back. Any salmon reel will work. Shift to match conditions and bait.

FishFood · 07-31-2008, 10:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tinman

The main point of live bait fishing is presenting a lively bait. A bait that streaks off the moment it hits the water. A bait that darts off in terror, peeling line from the spool. The whole specialized art of flylining is toward that one goal, the only goal: PRESENTING A LIVELY BAIT IN THE WATER.

Agree entirely. If the tuna are hot and boiling they'll hit anything (including spoons), but it's the other times that finesse pays off. On charters, I always bring my own small bait net to ensure I can catch the liveliest and healthiest bait, and it definitely works Also, a quick cast after a troll jig strike is critical. Wait a couple of seconds too long and they're often already gone.

Trying to fish tuna with the reel in gear is likely to end up in many missed strikes, where tuna rip off the bait or the hook rips through their jaw. There needs to be some give to hook them properly since they are usually hitting so hard.

Chrome Bumper · 07-31-2008, 10:29 AM

Yes even 20# line will pull a small hook out, but adjusting the drag and using a calibrated thumb solves that. Another good reason for a salmon pole.

BrianMaguire · 07-31-2008, 11:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pau Hana

Can't agree with you on keeping the reel in gear- flyline the live bait, and when it gets picked up, give it a 3 count before throwing the reel into gear.

The teeth of an albacore aren't too much to worry about.

I am not saying this won't work, it will, but we spent more time retying gear then we did fishing flylining. BTW - I call BS on the teeth not being a problem. If you did not re-rig you could just about count on loosing the next fish, unless you cut your line and re-tied a new hook. I keep it in gear but feed line, mouth hooked them every time, simple flick of the pliers and viola, hook out RTG (ready to go). The guys flylining them hooked them deeper and had to cut hooks after every hookup. You will hook more fish then the guys that had to re-tie a new hook because you will spend more time fishing, I put on a new bait and let er rip.

Tinman · 07-31-2008, 11:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BrianMaguire

I am not saying this won't work, it will, but we spent more time retying gear then we did fishing flylining. BTW - I call BS on the teeth not being a problem. If you did not re-rig you could just about count on loosing the next fish, unless you cut your line and re-tied a new hook. I keep it in gear but feed line, mouth hooked them every time, simple flick of the pliers and viola, hook out RTG (ready to go). The guys flylining them hooked them deeper and had to cut hooks after every hookup. You will hook more fish then the guys that had to re-tie a new hook because you will spend more time fishing, I put on a new bait and let er rip.

I should have mentioned that I usually tie on a new hook after every fish, for a variety of reasons. Since the line is light, I want it to be perfect. The last few feet get beaten up from the fishes tail, teeth, gill rakers, not to mention the gaff, and all the thrashing on deck. Also, its often quicker to cut the line rather than dislodge a hook. And finally, I always want a fresh knot.

So I cut or bust the line, leaving the hook in the fish, clip off a foot or two and tie on a new hook. With a box of hooks and clippers in a pocket, it takes just a few seconds to retie.

Mark Mc · 07-31-2008, 11:40 AM

The weirdest thing just happened. I had this daydream.....I thought I was reading Allcoast....then I looked up and it was ifish

Regarding the original question....in addition to the bait hooking methods mentioned....the nose hooking (actually, through the tip of the lower jaw and into the nose) is the go-to method when using a sinker. Either a rubbercore, or a small chromie. When you have a weight dragging against the bait, any of the collar / gill hooking methods will tend to tear (especially heavier weights & longer casts). I'm not talking about a gentle lob, rather a long cast.

SecondSeason · 07-31-2008, 02:01 PM

after having such a great time last weekend all lines on secondseason will be hook free to prevent any lip trama or swallowing of hooks by tuna.

so from this time forward we will only be fishing for the take down so small loops of fishing line will be looped around and just in front of the tail.

remember all the fun is in the first hit.

Comstock · 07-31-2008, 02:02 PM

Well said, that's a good one, Allcoaster. i just dropped off of bloodydecks.com where the fleet is slaying them at my old stomping grounds ie....302,371, 425....

another trick is never handle your fresh bait with dry hands and fish as light a line as possible for anchovies they can't swim as strong as a mack or dino...

Cheers,
D.C.

CATCH AND EAT · 07-31-2008, 02:28 PM

I like to rig my livebait with a sign that says "eat me"

Chrome Bumper · 07-31-2008, 03:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BrianMaguire

I am not saying this won't work, it will, but we spent more time retying gear then we did fishing flylining. BTW - I call BS on the teeth not being a problem. If you did not re-rig you could just about count on loosing the next fish, unless you cut your line and re-tied a new hook. I keep it in gear but feed line, mouth hooked them every time, simple flick of the pliers and viola, hook out RTG (ready to go). The guys flylining them hooked them deeper and had to cut hooks after every hookup. You will hook more fish then the guys that had to re-tie a new hook because you will spend more time fishing, I put on a new bait and let er rip.

Sometime the captain leaves the helm to keep poles with good hooks and line in the rack so you part the line and grab a different pole and bait. About 20 seconds from gaffing the fish to paying out the next bait and no fumbling with unhooking and nicked lines. Hooks are cheap, and you can pull them out later.

Reel Obsession · 07-31-2008, 03:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Freakwater

When the sharks show up in numbers, the parties over.

Freakwater

Yep, sharks killed our bite on 3 of 4 stops on Saturday. Didn't stop us from plugging the boat, but might have only taken one if not for the blues.....

PugtSounDav · 07-31-2008, 10:58 PM

Why not use a small snap swivel and have a bunch of pre-tied hooks on short leaders?
Leave the old hook & leader in the fish, and re-snap a fresh one for the next cast.
Maybe even have one pre-loaded with an anchovie swimming around in the live-well?

I understand that most folks don't want a lot of hardware on the line because:
(1) it slows down swimming bait and (2) maybe it scares off line-shy Tuna.
But, when I hear that it's OK to place rubber-core weights on the line . . . . .
I wonder if the above two concerns are exaggerated?

We're talking pretty light line (20#), would a small (20#) swivel really hurt?
Sure seems faster and more secure than: cutting off line, holding loose hooks,
and (hopefully) tying good knots, in the middle of a hot bite.

Curious, Dave.

SecondSeason · 08-01-2008, 07:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Reel Obsession

Yep, sharks killed our bite on 3 of 4 stops on Saturday. Didn't stop us from plugging the boat, but might have only taken one if not for the blues.....

And the finger issue

Reel Obsession · 08-01-2008, 07:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SecondSeason

And the finger issue

Thanks for the reminder!

I sense a new version of the Saturday Night Live "Land Shark" scit playing itself out on your boat Treb....... Fishing tuna on the deck of the Second Season......Jaws music playing quietly in the background and a faint knock at the cabin door....... while asking myself "what is that sound?" I reach for a rod and reel and hear "Reel Shark!" as the level wind tries to inhale my hand and the crew rushes to save me.

Chrome Bumper · 08-01-2008, 08:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PugtSounDav

Why not use a small snap swivel and have a bunch of pre-tied hooks on short leaders?
Leave the old hook & leader in the fish, and re-snap a fresh one for the next cast.
Maybe even have one pre-loaded with an anchovie swimming around in the live-well?

I understand that most folks don't want a lot of hardware on the line because:
(1) it slows down swimming bait and (2) maybe it scares off line-shy Tuna.
But, when I hear that it's OK to place rubber-core weights on the line . . . . .
I wonder if the above two concerns are exaggerated?

We're talking pretty light line (20#), would a small (20#) swivel really hurt?
Sure seems faster and more secure than: cutting off line, holding loose hooks,
and (hopefully) tying good knots, in the middle of a hot bite.

Curious, Dave.

One big reason is sharks, when they brush a line they cut it. So the have to retie any way. Weights are handy to reach deeper fish, or if the wind is pushing you along, or your bait is not diving.

The trick is to be able to tie a knot and trim the tag line in seconds every time.

ducky-fish · 08-04-2008, 09:06 PM

thanks this is good stuff. any other ideas?

KeyWest · 08-04-2008, 09:18 PM

I hook horizontally through the nose, but that doesn't allow you to ever reel back a bait alive (it drowns as it's mouth is forced open). But, that's not a bad thing as it forces you to put on a new live bait each drift and use your old bait as chum.

As far as Treb only tying on bait by the tail - well - I'm calling BS. I know you better than that Treb. Tuna will die on your next trip out.

Sharks - we had plenty last weekend on the bait stop - one better than 8'. But it left the bait alone and we kept putting on fish. It did take one in half that we left hang for over an hour, but we figured, what the heck - sacrifice one tuna and keep the school around....

The smaller sharks seem to be a bigger problem than the larger ones. The small ones go for the chovies. The bigger ones for the tuna.

ChrisCurtis · 08-05-2008, 06:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KeyWest

It did take one in half that we left hang for over an hour, but we figured, what the heck - sacrifice one tuna and keep the school around.....

What do you do KW, just put the rod in the holder and let that fish do circles down there to keep the school around? How deep? Do you ever tangle it while playing another fish??

finnfisher · 08-05-2008, 06:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chrome Bumper

One big reason is sharks, when they brush a line they cut it. So the have to retie any way. Weights are handy to reach deeper fish, or if the wind is pushing you along, or your bait is not diving.

The trick is to be able to tie a knot and trim the tag line in seconds every time.

So what kind of knot do you use? For fast ties I usually use a palomar. Is that acceptable for live bait rigs?

KeyWest · 08-05-2008, 07:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fishnhawk66

What do you do KW, just put the rod in the holder and let that fish do circles down there to keep the school around? How deep? Do you ever tangle it while playing another fish??

The drift is usually good enough to keep the fish trailing behind the boat - usually about 25 to 50 yards. You generally don't get tangled with it because it is far enough back. And yep - keep the rod in the rod holder - usually off the T-Top to get it up and out of the way.