Drill, drill, drill!!!

[CATCH AND EAT]

Bush lifts the order banning offshore drilling. Now congress needs to wake up and okay the lifting of the ban.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/25674571

[JustCallMeDave]

I needed something to do today anyway.

[CATCH AND EAT]

Originally Posted by JustCallMeDave

I needed something to do today anyway.

[TheDandyDuck]

This should get good!
:lurk:

[Just_learning]

They can drill all they want. Refineries are at/near capacity....looks like the next problem is going to be building storage queues for unrefined product.

I believe it was Dale Carnegie who attributed his success to "beggining with the end in mind". Seriously, how many people are going to be saying "why arent gas prices lowering" in a month.

[rimurphy]

Consume, consume, consume!!!

[CATCH AND EAT]

If we had not allowed special environmental interests to sandbag energy developement we might not have been in this mess we now have. I am not saying ignore environmental concerns for the sake of oil but rather work with them and get this country back on it's feet. Refineries are not that difficult to build. Big oil has plenty of money to do this. If the sheiks of Dubhai can build island cities in the ocean then certainly the oil companies can build a few refineries in this country.

[Eagleclaw]

Yep in another 14 years those offshore platforms will produce their first barrel of oil... that sure going to help us in the short run...

[CATCH AND EAT]

Originally Posted by Eagleclaw

Yep in another 14 years those offshore platforms will produce their first barrel of oil... that sure going to help us in the short run...

Thus we should have thought about it 14 years ago when we already knew the dependance on foreign oil was dangerous. Now we are hamstrung.

[Eagleclaw]

Originally Posted by CATCH AND EAT

If we had not allowed special environmental interests to sandbag energy developement we might not have been in this mess we now have. I am not saying ignore environmental concerns for the sake of oil but rather work with them and get this country back on it's feet. Refineries are not that difficult to build. Big oil has plenty of money to do this. If the sheiks of Dubhai can build island cities in the ocean then certainly the oil companies can build a few refineries in this country.

the big oil companies don't want to build more refineries.. that would cut down on their profits... it's about supply and demand.. Big oil does have plenty of money how do you think they got it by not building more refineries and charging us through the nose for unleaded gas. they like that they are at refinery capacity right now.

[Lured In]

As is clear in the article, this simply shift the pressure to Congress to do something, it does not open anything to drilling. Even if Congress followed suit, the permitting process etc is still in place that would have to be danced through.

There are lots of 'legal' projects that never come to fruition, and I imagine those affected states will have plenty to say about it.

But its a step, and whether anthing comes of it or not, at least more options are being put forth.

[Freakwater]

Big oil doesn't want to drill or refine more oil. They are quite happy with todays price trends for oil and scapegoating "environmentalists". Unless you think the big hand of government should step in to the "free market" and force big oil produce more? Why would big oil want to spend more and work harder to flood the market with oil only to drive down the price?

Freakwater

[JustCallMeDave]

If you're trying to get an alcoholic off of the bottle, the fix is not to open more distilleries and flood the market with cheaper alcohol.

[Just_learning]

Originally Posted by JustCallMeDave

If you're trying to get an alcoholic off of the bottle, the fix is not to open more distilleries and flood the market with cheaper alcohol.

There you go making sense again.

[Danno]

Big oil wants to build more refineries because they are more efficient. The permiting process is too expensive to go through. You'll see the same thing with nuclear plants. Way too much red tape and probably only a 25% chance of success. Allowing off shore drilling is only one small brick in the wall.

It's the same way with plating companies (which are mush more toxic). You can never open a new one anymore so you'll see the same old ones stay in their locations forever.

[Chrome Bumper]

Originally Posted by JustCallMeDave

If you're trying to get an alcoholic off of the bottle, the fix is not to open more distilleries and flood the market with cheaper alcohol.

Welll, actually that would be the quickest way to solve the problem, the operation would work and the patient would have no more worries.

[flapbreaker]

Originally Posted by Eagleclaw

Yep in another 14 years those offshore platforms will produce their first barrel of oil... that sure going to help us in the short run...

I've never understood this "logic". Gore used it 8 years ago as a reason not to drill. To bad we didn't start then. Failing to take action is not a good plan. We all know that the energy situation is a challenging one and wont' be solved by drilling alone but we can just sit here and hope someone invents free energy. We must have a plan for fosil fuel use while at the same time looking for alternatives.

[JustCallMeDave]

Originally Posted by Chrome Bumper

Welll, actually that would be the quickest way to solve the problem, the operation would work and the patient would have no more worries.

I'm not ready for our country to be pushing up daisies.

[CATCH AND EAT]

Originally Posted by JustCallMeDave

I'm not ready for our country to be pushing up daisies.

But that is where we are very quickly headed if we do not do something about it now.

Car manufacturers have had technology to build fuel efficient cars for 30 years now and have done nothing but make crappy cars without the planet in mind. Now we are paying for it.

Environmentalists hamstrung us via legislation. Some very good and some not so savey.

Oil Cartels laugh at americans and europeans when we ask for more. And rightly so. We look rediculous to them with all our rules and regulations cuffing ourselves to the pole.

Oil speculators. Hang'em.

[lake creek charlie]

Ive got more fishing behind me than in front, so maybe im too skeptical.For example. I worked on the oil pipeline when it was built in alaska. The environmental lobbies stopped the line for years. The pipe was already bought from JAPAN, and then they realized that the pipe would rust while waiting for the courts. They then coated the pipe inside and out with a quarter inch of rubber. Then they realized that the hot oil coming out of the ground would disolve the rubber and clog up the refineries.When the cour6t5s finally allowed the pipeline to be built they had to remove the rubber and put it on barges headed for the lower 48. A inviromental disaster,,....man made. The barges were non stop for years. To say that it will take years so dont drill is VERY short sighted and defeatist

[El-Kabong]

Originally Posted by CATCH AND EAT

Bush lifts the order banning offshore drilling. Now congress needs to wake up and okay the lifting of the ban.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/25674571

if this was such a great idea, why didn't he do it 7.5 yrs ago?

drilling on the existing leases and reopening has been an option for oil companies for decades have they? NO. Do they want to? Beats me. Are they unhappy that gas prices are at $4 a gallon? ask this guy

[Reel Obsession]

Originally Posted by flapbreaker

I've never understood this "logic". Gore used it 8 years ago as a reason not to drill. To bad we didn't start then. Failing to take action is not a good plan. We all know that the energy situation is a challenging one and wont' be solved by drilling alone but we can just sit here and hope someone invents free energy. We must have a plan for fosil fuel use while at the same time looking for alternatives.

Yep, well said. The "solution" to our long term energy crisis will no doubt need to be multi faceted, and will not be solved over night. However, it is a LONG TERM problem, and to do nothing todat because it doesn't return tomorrow, only assures we will never be any better off. I think that the solution for the US is to become less dependent of middle eastern sources of supply. Otherwise, we will continue to build Saudi swimming pools.

[Reel Obsession]

Originally Posted by CATCH AND EAT

Bush lifts the order banning offshore drilling. Now congress needs to wake up and okay the lifting of the ban.

By the way Bernie, it IS Monday.... Couldn't you have started out the week with softer material? Say, Ford vs Chevy, row vs wade, sail vs power boaters, fly vs bait fishing, metal vs plastic, catamaran vs everything else?

[coach]

Remember in the first Iraq war when Saddam wrecked all those wells and lit them on fire? It was predicted that it would take 3 or 4 years to put them all out and fix them. It was done in 6 months. I say drill everywhere! Your back yard, my back yard, everywhere. I watched Encana drill a hole throught 16,000 feet of basalt in Mattawa (Grant county WA) in 8 months. Basalt is about the worst material to drill through. They are drilling more wells there. There were hundreds of wells drilled in Central Washington in the 70's (drilled and capped!)Oil flows out of the ground on it's own on the Olympic peninsula west of Forks. THERE IS PLENTY OF OIL EVERYWHERE! WE JUST NEED TO ACCESS IT! We have 5 refineries in Washington that run at about 65% capacity and A LOT of storage capacity in Eastern Washington.

We exported 14.169 million barells of crude diesel in April, and 6.048 million barells of gasoline (thats 595 million gallons of diesel and 254 million gallons of gasoline). These are the latest figures (from April).

[JustCallMeDave]

Originally Posted by CATCH AND EAT

Car manufacturers have had technology to build fuel efficient cars for 30 years now and have done nothing but make crappy cars without the planet in mind. Now we are paying for it.

I've occasionally pondered why the average fuel efficiency requirements as set by the EPA have gone up so slowly over such a long period of time. Seems like when there's another small increase, the auto manufacturers have about 10 years to get there.

Let's target something that we get a faster turnaround with: demand. Instead of tax breaks after a person buys a hybrid, why not subsidies to bring the cost of the vehicles with the highest fuel-efficiency? How about reserving a lane in downtown SOLELY for two wheeled transportation, and provide more rentable locking bicycle lockers down there, too?

That's just some ideas off of the top of my head. There's some very smart folks out there who can come up with many more ways to do this. The only way that America is going to get more conscious about oil consumption is if they are forced to due to out of control prices. We're getting there, but we have to be willing to make those changes.

[rimrock]

Yep, I'm sure drill, drill, drill will solve our energy issues and I will be paying for $2/gallon gas again. [sarcasm offered at no extra charge]

[Two Fister]

Oil companies are closing down refineries because they don't have any more room to store refined product and their margins are currently lowest on refined product. There were 87 shuttered refineries around the country before the prices ran up. They've recently cut back production at existing refineries by 25% because of pricing. It has nothing to do with available oil supply. Why would they want to put more supply on the market and drive the price down? They are making more money than any company in the history of mankind right now. Do you really think the current CEOs of Exxon/Mobil, Conaco, BP, etc. are looking out for the long term interests of the country and our economy? They are concerned with their stock price today and little else.

They are trying to get offshore opened before a change in administration just to have it open. They know that they won't have a chance like this again for a long time.

Remember how suddenly the electricity crisis brought on by Enron came on? The sudden and catastropic nature of the run up in oil prices has the same basis. It's a bubble brought on by speculation and market maniuplation. It's won't change until the government gets involved or the manipulation is daylighted. I'm not holding my breath for any significant change until November.
TF

[freespool]

Originally Posted by JustCallMeDave

I've occasionally pondered why the average fuel efficiency requirements as set by the EPA have gone up so slowly over such a long period of time. Seems like when there's another small increase, the auto manufacturers have about 10 years to get there.

Let's target something that we get a faster turnaround with: demand. Instead of tax breaks after a person buys a hybrid, why not subsidies to bring the cost of the vehicles with the highest fuel-efficiency? How about reserving a lane in downtown SOLELY for two wheeled transportation, and provide more rentable locking bicycle lockers down there, too?

That's just some ideas off of the top of my head. There's some very smart folks out there who can come up with many more ways to do this. The only way that America is going to get more conscious about oil consumption is if they are forced to due to out of control prices. We're getting there, but we have to be willing to make those changes.

Go Fish..........

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/8129979/







The 140 horsepower 85 MPG DaimlerChrysler diesel concept car can seat four.

[JustCallMeDave]

Originally Posted by freespool

Go Fish..........

I would, but Bernie lit a stink bomb in LIG and I've gotta babysit it now.

FTA:

D.C. DaimlerChrysler said it had no plans to mass produce the vehicle, but that some of the technology would show up in future vehicles.

They were just funnin. They didn't really plan on doing that.

[Chrome Bumper]

At last, a car that makes the Pacer, Gremlin, Hornet, chevette and Pinto look pretty. Better throw in a dodge, hmmm, the Tomohawk:



That link is over 3 years old, must be in wide production by now.

[Chromaflage]

That won't tow my boat.

Originally Posted by freespool

Go Fish..........

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/8129979/







The 140 horsepower 85 MPG DaimlerChrysler diesel concept car can seat four.

[CATCH AND EAT]

Originally Posted by JustCallMeDave

I would, but Bernie lit a stink bomb in LIG and I've gotta babysit it now.

FTA:


They were just funnin. They didn't really plan on doing that.

Hey now! I think everyone is being civil here. I'm not in a bad mood and the sun is shinning on just about everyone here today. Stink bomb? I think not sir. More like "who's on first" type of deal.

[Danno]

Originally Posted by CATCH AND EAT

Car manufacturers have had technology to build fuel efficient cars for 30 years now and have done nothing but make crappy cars without the planet in mind. Now we are paying for it.

They make them but no one buys them so they make more SUV's because everyone wants them. The only time people want massive economy on fuel is when prices peak.

In '96, when I bought my Suburban in California, it was nearly impossible to pay sticker price for one, let alone a small amount over invoice which was more common in other states. That's because CA has a fleet fuel economy requirement for all of the car manufacturers that says that the fleet as a whole must meet certain fuel economy minimums. If that number is 25 mpg, then for every Suburban they sold, they had to sell two Metros to average out the fuel economy. Manufacturers balance this by chargin less for the sub compacts, which they can't get enough demand, and increase the price on guzzlers in order to reduce demand.

I wouldn't complain if our tax structure taxed cars based on fuel consumption and miles driven (gas usage) as long as the taxes went to subsidizing capital on alternative energy sources that last more than 20 years. Unfortunately, our government will see to it that 75% is wasted in beaurocracy.

[Pop'n Fish]

Coach,
You might want to check your figures again. According to the May 2005 Congressional Research Service report: "The United States does export about one million barrels per day of oil and oil products; almost none of this is crude oil." source: Snopes.Com. Look under "new news" and scan down toward the bottom. Pops.

[Two Fister]

Originally Posted by Chromaflage

That won't tow my boat.

Dude,
Towing a boat is so 2008...







Get with the times!

[CATCH AND EAT]

Those are not tuna town compatible!

[Two Fister]

Originally Posted by CATCH AND EAT

Those are not tuna town compatible!

Maybe not in the comfort of the Cool Cat, but they an cross the English Channel in record setting time...

http://www.gizmag.com/go/2857/

Still not exactly sure how the middle one works. Kind of looks like you need a long downhill run to the boat ramp....

The Humvee and Sportscar actually redirect the engine power to an integrated jet and the wheels retract. The Humvee (called a Humdinga by it's Kiwi inventor) can go 65/kmh on the water.

Sorry for the hijack. Now take this SUV to Cuba.

[freespool]

Originally Posted by JustCallMeDave

I would, but Bernie lit a stink bomb in LIG and I've gotta babysit it now.

FTA:


They were just funnin. They didn't really plan on doing that.

How about a 235 mpg car in 2010?

http://www.motorauthority.com/cars/v...-car-for-2010/

[McSteelie]

What makes anyone believe that any new oil pumped will end up in the United States. China is getting the bulk of North Slope Crude and will get most of any new production from offshore or Artic Wilderness if drilling is allowed. I vote "NO".

And who can afford to spend an extra $10,000 to $15,000 for a car that will save you $20 to $30 a week at the pump.

[Sea Saw]

Originally Posted by Eagleclaw

the big oil companies don't want to build more refineries.. that would cut down on their profits... it's about supply and demand.. Big oil does have plenty of money how do you think they got it by not building more refineries and charging us through the nose for unleaded gas. they like that they are at refinery capacity right now.

I always love this argument ,let me ask ,do you think the oil companies would sell more gas at 4$ a gallon or 2$ a gallon ,I think we are using less now.
Why not drill ,whats it going to hurt ,Hell drill in my back yard if they want.
Tell me how wrong I am.

[El-Kabong]

Originally Posted by ApprenticeB8ter

I always love this argument ,let me ask ,do you think the oil companies would sell more gas at 4$ a gallon or 2$ a gallon ,I think we are using less now.
Why not drill ,whats it going to hurt ,Hell drill in my back yard if they want.
Tell me how wrong I am.

How many reports of oil company record profits do you recall hearing about when the price was $2/gallon. My recollection? 0

[Sea Saw]

Originally Posted by El-Kabong

How many reports of oil company record profits do you recall hearing about when the price was $2/gallon. My recollection? 0

Every year ,a new record.
2$ a gallon 4$ a gallon they are going to have record profits I agree .
Give me a viable alternative, I can't stand sending my money to the Saudi's ,who are not our friends .
Drill here keep the money here help Americans not some Prince that needs a 400 million dollar 767.
I am all for developing alternatives .
bicycles thats the answer.

[CATCH AND EAT]

Originally Posted by El-Kabong

How many reports of oil company record profits do you recall hearing about when the price was $2/gallon. My recollection? 0

EK, every year oil companies produce more and more record profits. Does not matter if they raise or lower the prices it is going to happen.

Show me where North slope oil is heading to china. I'd like to see the source and read up on it. Thanks.

[Eagleclaw]

Originally Posted by ApprenticeB8ter

I always love this argument ,let me ask ,do you think the oil companies would sell more gas at 4$ a gallon or 2$ a gallon ,I think we are using less now.
Why not drill ,whats it going to hurt ,Hell drill in my back yard if they want.
Tell me how wrong I am.

i do belive the US has only lowered it consumption of gas by 2% so if you asked a Oil man i bet they sure like the profits of 4.00 a gallon gas over 2.00 a gallon since it cost them the same to produce the gas....

I never said i was against drilling... this is all a political stunt during an election year... Bush signing that its ok to drill...noing that it's not going to happen but he wants to put it on the laps of the Democraticly held Congress...

[Eagleclaw]

Originally Posted by CATCH AND EAT

EK, every year oil companies produce more and more record profits. Does not matter if they raise or lower the prices it is going to happen.

Show me where North slope oil is heading to china. I'd like to see the source and read up on it. Thanks.

[Slobes]

The fact of the matter is that oil is not going to get us through our continued expansion. However, all solutions have draw backs and oil is just too convenient to use. If we want true blue independence and sustainability, everything has to change. We truely take the infastructure of this sountry for granted. Even if we do change, it will take a lot of time and energy to build a new energy infastructure.

As a nuclear engineer I'm sure you can guess my primo choice

[lingslayer]

Drill already! As a country we NEED the energy. As a people we don't need greater financial hits. Congress has been the perfect example of inaction in action for the last year as prices have skyrocketed.
At least someone is doing something to dig us out.

Don your tinfoil hat and write your congress person.

[Eagleclaw]

hey you oil drilers... if there was a huge amount of oil under Crater Lake would you guys be ready to DRILL, DRILL, DRILL??? it would be a lovely postcard wouldn't it with hundres of oil rig and platforms on crater lake... or maybe if there was a billion barrels under the Columbia River... we could have all sorts of Platforms to navigate on the Colmbia too... Good times

[Slobes]

Originally Posted by Eagleclaw

hey you oil drilers... if there was a huge amount of oil under Crater Lake would you guys be ready to DRILL, DRILL, DRILL??? it would be a lovely postcard wouldn't with hundres of oil rig and platforms on crater lake...

Now that's little extreme ain't it?

[Eagleclaw]

Originally Posted by Slobes

Now that's little extreme ain't it?

why is it extreme???? it's ok to drill in alaska but no here? they want to drill on a refuge what's the difference... DRILL, DRILL, DRILL

[Slobes]

Originally Posted by Eagleclaw

why is it extreme????

Because that is taking it into an area that isn't up for grabs, for starters.

Then there is the fact that what you're doin there is essentially a scare tactic to make us think about something that is not truly relevant here.

Now if you wanted to bring up the view of oil rigs beyond haystack rock, that would be very relevant point about astetics(spelling?) of this process.

I'm not saying I'm for drilling the heck outta everything in sight, but lets keep the hypotheticals reasonable.

[Chrome Bumper]

Originally Posted by CATCH AND EAT

Those are not tuna town compatible!

That red one would make a nice diver board, might attract some big ones

[RogueFishr]

Originally Posted by Slobes

Because that is taking it into an area that isn't up for grabs, for starters.

I don't see how the comparison is any different. The land isn't "up for grabs" according to who? The ANWR is??

RF

[freespool]

Historians will refer to this era as the Government By Special Interests.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/25674571

[Slobes]

Originally Posted by RogueFishr

I don't see how the comparison is any different. The land isn't "up for grabs" according to who? The ANWR is??

RF

Thats a heck of a point...

[Chrome Bumper]

Originally Posted by freespool

How about a 235 mpg car in 2010?

http://www.motorauthority.com/cars/v...-car-for-2010/

2010?



235 mpg? Phhht, child's play.


These get 400 mph on oil.


They also run on bio oil, ethanol, biomass and pure water:






For water sports you can give this model a spin:








Bikes can get over 1,000.

[Pilar]

There are three hallmarks to sanity.

1) Be able to admit you are wrong.

2) Be able to change your mind when you learn some new information.

3) Be happy when you get what you want.

You guys are all crazy by this or any other definition. Before you read any further

WARNING you might have something new to think about. It might even be something different than what you hear from your favorite radio talk show wingnut.

The largest measure of oil reserves are under someone else's dirt. At least some of the people who own that dirt hate us or at least don't like the US. 2% of the worlds' oil reserves are under our dirt. Many wells in the US are capped and out of production. Many oil leases are not being developed.

Can anyone here explain to me how having more oil leases does anything for oil supply or gas prices?

How about we make what is being stolen worthless? How would oil prices react if we just stopped buying the stuff? How does leasing and drilling and destroying a few places left unspoiled do anything except leave us right where we are now?

What would happen if we turned all this angst over how big oil is ripping us off into becoming the world leader in alternative forms of energy?

They don't want you to find another way. They just want all the mineral rights. And they also know that in a few months that particular lollypop will be forever out of reach.

Think about it.

Go ahead and drill .. I'm working on the star trek transporter.

[Slobes]

Originally Posted by Chrome Bumper

These get 400 mph on oil.

400mph? wow that is scootin right along

[Chrome Bumper]

Originally Posted by Eagleclaw

hey you oil drilers... if there was a huge amount of oil under Crater Lake would you guys be ready to DRILL, DRILL, DRILL??? it would be a lovely postcard wouldn't it with hundres of oil rig and platforms on crater lake... or maybe if there was a billion barrels under the Columbia River... we could have all sorts of Platforms to navigate on the Colmbia too... Good times

Under Crater Lake? No problem, in fact that should be developed by drilling for geo-thermal.

Using the Lake surface would probably be more expensive than side drilling from outside the lake. An option would be to just drain the lake with a tunnel and build a road in the tunnel to drive to Wizard Island and drill there.

=Slobes;2089090]400mph? wow that is scootin right along[/quote]
Ziiiinnng


MPG, not mph. Although it should be noted some high very velocities have been recorded using preteen boys fueled with sugar blends turbocharged with caffeinated water. Some blogs report incredible performance, but the have not been duplicated in laboratory settings.

Mileage may vary.

[fishboys]

Originally Posted by Eagleclaw

hey you oil drilers... if there was a huge amount of oil under Crater Lake would you guys be ready to DRILL, DRILL, DRILL??? it would be a lovely postcard wouldn't it with hundres of oil rig and platforms on crater lake... or maybe if there was a billion barrels under the Columbia River... we could have all sorts of Platforms to navigate on the Colmbia too... Good times

Ya those wind turbines up 84 sure are purdy aint they.