Boat Moorage Question?

[Hawg Hunter]

Can anybody give me the pros and cons about mooring a boat at South Beach (Newport) verses Depoe Bay. Iv'e caught limits of coho and chinook out of both of them. I would like to get a slip in one of them but I don't know which would be better. If I had a slip at South Beach, how much longer would the trip be to meet you guys out at the tuna spots? Any advice would be appreciated? Also, which port does everyone feel the salmon fishing is better out of? Thanks. [img]graemlins/1zhelp.gif[/img]

[fish assassin]

Hawg Hunter,

I went thru the same process in 2001 ... which port to keep my
boat. I finally decided on Depoe Bay for oh-so-many reasons. I'll
try to explain how my thinking went on this and what I've learned since then ...

First, for me there were three ports that I was looking at: Newport, Depoe
Bay and Tillamook. Tillamook got pushed out of the running almost
immediatly because they have a waiting list and a lottery system to get open
slips. So now I was down to South Beach or Dopey Bay.

I picked Dopey Bay for 3 reasons: 1) it is closer to my house in
Pacific City by 15 miles and about 30 minutes, 2) It is a *small*
port. I like small ports. Everybody seems to get along better and help
each other out more. 3) Cost!! It cost over twice as much to keep my
boat at South Beach as it does at Depoe Bay. I get a yearly slip for my
30 footer and it costs me about $600/year ... and that includes electricity.
You need to at least double that for South Beach.

Now, some things I have learned while at Depoe Bay ... The port is very
"hot". You need to keep up on you zinks. If you plug in to shore power
you should at least have a galvanic isolator but better yet an isolation
transformer. From what I understand, South beach is not so "hot", but still
has a fair amount of problems in this regard.

As for Salmon and TUNA fishing, the boats from both ports mingle
together! Some days the fishing is better outside of Newport, other times
it's better out of Depoe Bay. Both are good fishing ports (IMHO).

I *think* that there are some other Ifishers at South Beach that could
probably give you a better idea of what it is like down there ...

One more thing to consider ... the fuel docks at South Beach are open
7 days a week while the fuel dock at Depoe Bay is generally only open
Monday thru Friday. You *can* call the fuel dock during regular business
hours and somebody will be there after hours and/or weekends. However,
it's only 12 miles from my dock at Depoe Bay and the fuel dock at South Beach
and I've gone into South Beach for fuel a few times after running for TUNA.
Of course, depending on your fuel capacity/consumptions this may not be an option.

-assAssin-

[fish assassin]

Yeh, what Marty said!!

Depending on how long you are planning on having your boat in a slip,
it is almost as cheap (or cheaper) to rent the slip by the year
rather than by the month. I think we figured out that if you rent it
for four months you've already paid for a year. If you rent by the
year, you will *always* have a slip available!! (at least, at Depoe Bay)

-assAssin-

[Hawg Hunter]

Gentlemen,
You guys are a wealth of information. I don't know what I would without you. I talked to the security guard at south beach last summer and he said their dock is pretty hot also. I definitely need to get better educated on my zincs. Depoe has definitely got better slip rates. Is there another fish cleaning station at Depoe for the people who have slips? If there isn't, how do you get from your slip to the cleaning station by the public boat ramp?

I think for 2003 I will continue to trailer my 23' Jetcraft.Hopefully, by the end of this year I will have a 26' to 28' Almar built. So I will definitely want a slip for the start of 2004. Thanks for your time guys.

[OceanBlue]

Fish cleaning station - good question!

I know that at newport, it is outside and well lit.

Depoe (unless there's a separate one for moorage customers) is inside a building and it closes (6pm?). We have been able to work with the Harbor Master (one heck of a nice guy) and he'll leave it open for us. We clean the station after we're done, flip him some of our catch and everyone is happy. We must be doing something right because he's always happy to see us, no matter what the hour.

[fish assassin]

Couple of things I forgot in the last post ... Fuel at South Beach is
usually a few cents cheaper (per gallon). As for "Hooking up" with the
TUNA boats, the two ports are only a radio call apart! :grin: :grin: :grin: :grin:

-assAssin-

[Sensei-san]

Like FA says, electrolysis in a marina is a major factor in considering whether or not to get a moorage or continue to launch.

If your boat is trailerable I could consider getting a dry storage spot near where you plan to fish. That way you could pull it out and launch fairly quickly. Plus you would still be able to get fuel cheaply in the city.

But if you are going to keep you boat in the water, at the minimum I would put as much zinc on the exposed metal parts as possible. A lot of guys add zincs to the outdrive on the cavitation plate and put slipper zincs on every nook and cranny they can find. Also you will have to get the bottom painted with anti-fouling paint.

Adding all the expenses up may not make economic sense for a slip over dry storage and launch fees.

[fish assassin]

Sensei-san:

Gotta be careful with that Zinc stuff!! Too much zinc will actually
draw the free electorns TO your boat, causing just as many problems
as not enough. There are people go around with their testers and check the
differing potentials between the port and your boat/outdrives.

-assAssin- (who believes that electrolisis is a pretty trickey thing!)

[Marty]

Hawg Hunter

Newport has warm showers, gas thats open on the weekends and a very friendly bar. I have a slip in Depoe cause it is closer to my home and its the coolest harbor in Oregon. Its closer to the tuna grounds and salmon fishing (especially silvers) and has good bottom fishing within a couple miles. The cleaning station is also top notch.

I should tell you that if you are thinking about Depoe, you had better hurry as they are almost completely filled up.

Good luck

Marty

[fish assassin]

Pilars Mate:

I agree. Gary, the Harbor Master is a super guy. He's helped me
several times when I've had minor problems with the boat. Not just
with information, but head-down-in-the-bilge type help. BTW, I've heard
him mention how much he appreciates the way the Ifish community treats
his fish cleaning station!! He *did* tell me, however, that if it was
left dirty just ONCE that he wouldn't make the extra effort to keep it
open for the tuna fishers. Just kind of a warning.

There is only ONE fish cleaning station at Depoe Bay. No special facility
for them that's parked there. However, there are a couple of fish cleaning
tables with running water up in the parking lot that are well lit
by the over-head street lamps that work pretty well. I've been known to
clean a fish or two (dozen) there!

For off-loading fish from the moorage docks ... It is okey-dokey to pull
up to the pump out dock and off-load fish there. The cleaning tables are
right at the top of the ramp.

Hope this helps ...

-assAssin-

[Sensei-san]

FA, Coming from the old school of thought that there is no such thing as too much zincs, I tend to disagree. The main problem in most boats is that there is not enough bonding in the boat. Or you can go the opposite of no bonding.

Given that most boats have some path for electricity to get to the water, I fall in the total bonding camp. Plus in the northwest there are a preponderance of soda pop can boats that pose a unique problem in a marina with mixed wood, plastic, aluminum and steel boats. Sounds like a recycling yard.

Each type of boat has its unique electrolysis solution. For a plastic or wood boat, more zincs and total bonding makes economic sense. With total bonding you remove the possiblity of stray currents eating away at seac0cks and thru hull fittings. For steel boats zincs also make sense to cut down on pit corrosion.

I don't like the active cathoic protection devices because if it fails it just sends the problem to the next boat over and I think it does it anyway when it works. The best solution is probably the zinc guppy that you hang overboard. It draws the current away from the boat and slows down the action on the onboard zincs. Even better is like you say galvanic isolators or isolation tranformers at several grand a pop.

[ 01-21-2003, 10:53 AM: Message edited by: Sensei-san ]

[fish assassin]

Originally posted by Sensei-san:

I don't like the active cathoic protection devices because if it fails it just sends the problem to the next boat over and I think it does it anyway when it works. The best solution is probably the zinc guppy that you hang overboard. It draws the current away from the boat and slows down the action on the onboard zincs. Even better is like you say galvanic isolators or isolation tranformers at several grand a pop.

<font size="2" face="verdana,arial,helv">Sensei-san:

As to having too much zinc, I think we will probably just have to
agree to diagree. I'm sure I won't convince you away from the "old school"
mentality, and you won't change *my* mind as I am working with the "West
coast expert" on boat electrolisis problems and that is what he told me.

I am more and more in agreement with you on the active cathoic protection
devices, however. Rod Scheiwe (the expert) has basicly told us to disable
the one that comes on my MerCruiser outdrives. He says that the charge created
by this device is part of why I am having problems with my "pop can boat"!
Maybe if'n I'd bought a tupperware boat instead I wouldn't be having these
problems?? Or maybe I should have just stuck to the old wood boats!
Never any problems there!! :grin: :grin: :grin:

-assAssin-

[fish assassin]

One more thing Sensei-san, I hope you are wrong about the price
of the isolation transformer!! I've got one going on my boat in the
next couple of weeks and am figuring on the $750 to $900 range.
"Several grand" will definitely break *my* bank!

-assAssin-

The Cordova, AK facility that I was responsible for had an active cathodic system and it worked quite well. I still had to do R&R on it twice a year but in the long run it cost less than the 800 or 900 lbs of zinks per year that I had to use at the other facilities.

[ 01-21-2003, 02:06 PM: Message edited by: Keta ]

[Sensei-san]

A 30 amp isolation transformer is probably in the less than a grand range. But if you need a 50 amp one that's a whole no'ther story. An isolation transformer is probably the only true way to reduce or eliminate galvanic corrosion. But it is really expensive.

It sounds like the active system that Keta had was for the marina itself not individual boats. That would be nice in a place like Cordova but in a public marina in the lower 48 you can't get everybody to agree on how to ground their boats or even have their electrical systems in tip top shape.

We probably scared the poor kid away with his Jetcraft sled from using a mooring. He probably thinks that if he leaves it in the water for a week and comes back it will be swiss cheese on the bottom.

[Miss B Haven]

An isolation transformer will only protect you from yourself (your own power use). It protects you against shore power where a potential between Neutral and Earth ground exists (other boats can cause that potential on the shore power). If that potential is there then your grounding/bonding system can/will have a potential relative to the water (earth ground). The same thing can happen if there is a leak to ground inside your own boat (with or without an isolator). You can actually measure for this with a good meter.
An active galvanic protection device is different. It will protect you against stray currents in the water from other sources (or yourself) by countering the current. Zincs do a similar thing (they don't counter it but - well you know) but if there are significant stray currents in the water your zincs can disappear in a matter of weeks or even days. Once that happens your props/shafts and thru hulls are next (or outdrive) I've seen articles/pics where outdrives have practically disappeared in a matter of a week or two.
You can also measure this but you need a special probe to contact the water (earth ground to water potential). They are about $80.
An isolation transformer will not add any protection from stray current from the boat next door.
I'm not an expert on this but I have done some reading. Like my exposure suits and life raft, they are items on my list but I do not currently (no pun intended) own. :depressed:

S-S,
It was a large state owned steel dock used by the AMHS.

[fish assassin]

So Keta, How much of Depoe Bays electrolisis problems are caused
by the steel pilings, do you think??? They put new zincs on the
pilings last year and they were getting pretty well eaten away by
the end of the season!

-assAssin-

[Hawg Hunter]

Gentlemen,
I have a civil engineering degree and have always considered myself fairly bright, until I started reading these responses. Its definitely obvious that I need to research this some more. You guys have really opened my eyes. The last thing I want to do is put my pop can boat in the water and watch it be ate up. When I do get that Almar built, I will definitely hire a professional to help me out with this "current" problem. Thanks!

[Sensei-san]

Years ago when I took a class offered by the Power Squadron on boat electronics we went over the problem of ground vs. neutral return current. As we know the ground and neutral are identical in a home in normal 110v installations. On a boat the ground and neutral are suppose to be wired differently with the ground going to a true ground on shore.

The old salt that taught the course went over the problem and his advice was to cut the ground! This naturally blew my mind along with all the breakers on my boat. (Just kidding).

But I can see the logic. It eliminates one path for stray current. Galvanic Isolators esentially do the same thing. They are just back to back diodes to prevent the return of DC current in the ground.

Another problem is the left hand drive conundrum. In England cars and boats used to be grounded with the "+" to the ground. The opposite of how we do it in the colonies.

If you know electrical theory, the electrons are actually in the earth not in the battery. With a positive ground you are actually more compatible with the natural forces. With a positive ground galvanic action and electrolysis is much easier to control. But since 99% of all boats in the colonies are (-) grounded, we have to go with the flow. Backwards.

Hey, kid with the Jetcraft sled. You still want to put your boat in a slip?

[Hawg Hunter]

Sensei,
I appreciate all your advice. I am now thinking about designing a lift system to keep the boat about 2 feet above the water. (just kidding) I didn't realize that this grounding issue was quite this complicated. As for 2003, I will continue to trailer the Jetcraft.