A compass and a "chimp" or "chump"

[id. painter]

Thanks to all for the input on my compass post.
My father is very exacting, Im not so much.
To understand me , you must realize my first reaction to a compass is more like that of one of the lesser primates.(chimp, or chump) you choose, just dont tell me which.
After i noticed the shiny interestingly shaped object(compass) I would nuckle hop-walk over and investigate.
I would instantly take a squat and begin fondle,sniff,shake,bite,lick, shake it again, randomly manipulate any and all moving parts or knobs. Once i realize that its not food.
That i cant open it and get to the cool stuff inside.
That it isnt going to do anythingto keep my attention.
Ill drop it and wander off to the next interesting brightly colored object,,,,,,, ahhh , whats this....... a" Mexican Flag" .... Hi Ho. id. p.

[Sensei-san]

ID painter, if you read the postings carefully on the issue of a compass, 99% of the posters would probably not go to sea without one. Learning about a compass and use it for navigation is one of the basics of seagoing navigation. Although in the modern age much of the lore of compasses has gone away, short of a nuclear attack, a compass is one item that will always work. It doesn't need satellites, batteries, cords, computers, chips, motors, or anything that modern man is so totally reliant on. It only needs a space free of extraneous magnetic influence to always point magnetic North. I realize that Keta and your father have fished in areas where local magnetic disturbances affect a compass but these are marked on most nautical charts.

The great sailing civilizations all sailed with a piece of lodestone in the hold. That way they could magnetize a needle to make a compass. From the Greeks to the Phoecians to the Vikings this phenomenon was well known to man. Along with the realization that the world was round as they understood the concept of horizon.

I have yet to hear an expression like my true GPS bearing. Most of the time I hear people questioning what their GPS is outputting. "Are you sure? Is your GPS in 2-D mode or 3-D mode?" "Gimme your LAT-LON, I'll punch it in when my GPS settles..." I doubt that a GPS will ever have the meaning of folkore. Can you see a leader having the trueness of his GPS? Or his beliefs are his GPS? Heaven help us if it gets to that.

[Sensei-san]

ID painter, What you are describing is a fine art known as "Predicted Log Racing". It is a sport of a lot of sailboat and powerboat racers. It takes a great deal of training and knowledge to be able to do. Most of the predicted log racers I know are former naval officers, graduates of maritime academies or heavy duty math junkies.

Like other posters have said both the Power Squadron and Coast Guard Auxiliary offer advanced piloting courses that will begin to teach you how to do predicted logs.

The ability to plot courses on a chart is a fine art. Once you learn how to plot a course, it makes doing navigation easier. But a large part of it is route like learning math. Once you learn the basic principles, navigating on any body of water becomes easier as you have an understanding about how to use nautical charts and your instruments.

[id. painter]

Thanks,Sensi-san. Im just kidding around now. I will always have a compass on my boat. I do understand basic use.I appreciate its usefullness. No doubt!
My fathers comments about a compass were critical as well as promotional.
All of his criticisms were after he talked about navigating thru and around islands with only a compass. He has been there and done it for years.
One of his favorite stories is, how in thick fog he made a 22 mile run and ended up 100 yards from where he wanted to be.
He also talked about how important is to be able to take readings in clear weather.
In my mind , lets say i go out of Depoe bay for the first time in a fog. I run out 30 miles at a reading of Due West. I fish for 5 hours in a 5mph S.W. current with a 8 mph North east breeze.
What is my headding to get back to Depoe? Isnt the getting back part only a guess, without doing the calculations on a map??? Even with a map isnt it still a guess?
Im just trying to understand all i can. id. p.

[Pilar]

IDP, it is great sport to run your boat with the compass and use the GPS to track your error due to wind, current and compass error.

Navigation is a lost art. We have become very dependent on electronics. Try it with just the compass. You'll be surprised at how close you can get if you pay attention.

BTW, you'll also be learning a survival skill.

[id. painter]

I absolutly will! I plan to start using my compass every chance i have. Ill get some experience and confidence that i dont have now. Ill start on the lakes around here in Idaho. Step by step ill work my way up to Big blue. id. p.

[mcsmd]

Please understand I am a complete new comer to the local salt-water fishing in this area and this is my first posting on this board. But I have been reading several of these threads and there appears to be a degree of electronic dependency. I started my sea going experience 35 years ago as a sailboat racer. In those days all we had were a compass and a chart. Many a day we raced in heavy fog where the race was depended on finding a mark based on that level of navigation. We stayed out after the sun went with the same compass and chart. When radio direction finders were used, unless there were two stations available, all we were told was the transmitter was either of two directions 180 degrees apart. Compared to then, navigation is now a snap. But you still need to know the basics.

There has been a lot of discussion about fuel consumption and having proper readings of that consumption. But that still only tells you that you are in trouble or will be in trouble very shortly. What ever happened to making predictions before you leave the beach? I disagree with those that referred to Log Racing as a sport for only Naval Academy grads or PhDs from Cal Tech. Thirty-five years ago, everyone could do the required math. That is what having a boat was all about.

I suggest each of you try the old ways (just in case your computer goes down). Just remember, a million light years away, a million years ago, a star exploded and a gamma ray has been traveling across the universe with the sole intent of changing the polarity of your silicon chip. Start a logbook of data with pages for each wind and sea conditions encountered. Run your boat out of a five gal can to see how far she will go on that day’s conditions. Use those fancy electronics to see what the drift is when you go in a straight line. Plot curves for each set of data and do the math so you can make educated predictions in the future. There is no reason to plot a course with 20 – 30 degrees of error just so you can run down wind near the bar. It is better to do the math, set a more direct course, and spend less time near the bar waiting for that one wave in ten thousand.

Now that I have ****** everyone off, I fully understand there will be scant chance of hooking up with any of you for some fishing. But I could not sand back and not point out there is a better way.

mcsmd

[Sensei-san]

That same gamma burster also will flip the polarity of the earth. This has happened several times in the geologic history of earth. Making even the compass useless.

My remark about predicted log racing was tongue in cheek. I was hoping that people would run to Google and do some research on it and then sign up for some classes to learn the predictive science of "dead" reckoning. As everything nautical it is shorthand for deducted reckoning.

I too worry about the tremendous reliance on things electrical by modern day sailors. It drives me crazy to hear the chatter on the VHF when things get foggy or windy. Eventually you hear the call for the Coast Guard to rescue someone that has: "engine troubles" as everyone knows they will respond to a mechanical problems call but not "Help, I'm lost in the fog." Every Coast Guard rescue costs thousands of dollars in manpower, equipment and time.

The basic boating safety classes like a traffic ticket class is partly to instill the fear of god in you rather than impart navigational skills. Only recently has owning a boat even require a boating safety class. But to learn about that magical nautical address of 60 D ST, one should sign up for an advanced boating class.

If you know 60 D ST, you probably can avoid a trip to Davey Jones' Locker.

[Deepslayer]

Where's your first timer"story mcsmd :whazzup: :shocked:

[Miss B Haven]

mcsmd - If you think that post will end your chances for a trip then you ain't been reading this board long enough! :grin: Good constructive discussion is one of the values here! I have even been known to be wrong once (I thought I made a mistake, but I was wrong, or was I right- never mind) [img]graemlins/stupid.gif[/img]
What will prevent you from getting a ride is not telling us a story (if you didn't already and I missed it- gosh I'd be wrong again). You must have some goos ones about runnign around in the fog at least!

[kenai]

Aha, 60d st, speed, time and distance formula
distance = speedXtime/ 60, here's another:Can dead men vote twice at elections, what does it stand for?

[Mark Mc]

Conversion from compass heading to true:

Compass, Deviation, Magnetic, Variation, True, Add East.

Add east deviation and variation (total compass error) to the compass heading to come up with true heading.

[black magic]

Mark,
You are once again displaying a cerebral capacity that is totally awesome. I am honestly impressed with your level of salty knowledge. I learned a different memory trick for the correction factors. It is useful for minds that operate at a somewhat lower level.
True Virgins Make Dull Company

[mcsmd]

Ok here it goes, here is the story of the old man and the sea.

Many years ago I was young and fit. A few month before I had sunk my boat in the South San Frisco Bay during an unfortunate blow on a race day (another story). So I was asked to crew on another 505 in the longest dingy race in the world. It runs from St Frances YC to the buoy just in front of the gate at the Presidio then down to the City, turn right and sail to Palo Alto. It was June, cold and blowing. There were about thirty boats racing with the SFYC crash boat in attendance.

Well we went over before the first mark, then again on the first spinnaker reach. When we lost it on the jibe, I looked at my skipper (who was older – maybe 35) and came to the conclusion he was hypothermic and not able to go on. I let the boat go turtle (mast down, bottom up) and dragged his cold body up on the hull to warm in the sun and dry out. After a while, the SFYC crash boat came by yelling over their horn that “we have 12 boats down and we are calling the Coast Guard”. The sun was out, we were out of the cold water, and only slowing drifting towards The Rock. I could see south past the corner of the City, and see a CG 44 footer coming up the bay. About 500 yards out, it suddenly stopped. A few minutes passed before it again went under way, but very slowly and weaving thru the water.

It never came up to us directly but started making a wide uneven circle around us. They yelled over to us that they had lost a screw and could not come closer. They then informed us we had to swim to them if we wanted to be rescued. I talked the skipper back into the water where he immediately lost it. Getting cold again freaked him so I wound up doing a lifeguard carry across 75 feet of very rough water to the side of the cutter. They started to drag him up the side when this coasty decided to save me. He threw-dropped one of those big orange hard throwing rings straight down on my head. The next thing I knew, I was being dragged up the side, seeing stars, and suffering a mean headache (I had a knot to prove it). Bare in mind, I was doing ok up until that point. The boson-mate running the boat was screaming at the coasty in question a series of four letter words I have never heard placed together in my life. He finished his screaming with the final words “G—D--- Reservist”.

We were wrapped in blankets and taken below. After my head pounding slowed down, I went on to the deck to see a second 44 ft. cutter approaching the turtled boat. They worked a three-inch line around this 300-pound boat and gunned the motors. This proceeded to rip out the forestay, hole the boat, and cause the before mentioned boson-mate on my boat to radio the same four letter words, a description of there national origin, and the fact they were reservists. I was equally mad and walked to the rail and jumped back into the water. As I swam back to the sailboat, I heard considerable loud discussion how a saved victim cannot refuse to be saved. I do not think there is a page in their manual of someone jumping back into the water. I swam to the boat, brought the mast up (I had only left it down for a stable and safe place to warm up the skipper), and demanded a ½ inch line to properly tie off for a tow back to SFYC.

As we were going back to SFYC, I looked back to see a CG chopper hovering above the cutter I had been on. I got the boat to the docks and the lift, and proceeded to do a slow lift and drain (the hull had taken water with the forestay hole). The next thing I knew, my skipper was also there. I asked him how he had gotten there and he replied “On the third cutter”. I asked why a third. “Because the first cutter was sinking.” “Sinking!!!!” I explained. It seems the cutter had completely warped their shaft on the lost screw and were taking water. I then asked what the chopper was for. He replied “to bring out gas, they had none on board.” “But why did they need gas?” “Because that was a diesel cutter with gas bilge pumps, and they had come out without any gas”

The moral of the story is – never need CG help on a reservist weekend. And that is how it took three CG cutters and a chopper to save my sorry behind.

[id. painter]

mcsmd, Thanks for the story,good one. Welcome.
Your story reminded me of a story my best friend can tell.
My friend , his brother in-law and his 60 year old father were fishing Henerys lake on the season opener, Memorial weekend.
The three men were in a 14ft. Gregor with a 25hp motor on it. They were anchored fishing worms . Without warning a very violent micro- burst hit, with very high winds.
My friend saw the storm comming , pulled anchor and started to head for shore.
It was too late , the third wave was enough to flip the boat.
If you are at all farmiliar with my area you know that any liquid water Memorial weekend is very cold. Very often the lake still has ice on it at that time of year.
Any way, they now found themselves hanging on for dear life , freezing water, 50 mph winds and no-one around.
My friend said that for about 20 minutes he and his two partners hung on. He said that as the cold set in on his father he (father) started to give up and couldnt hold on as each wave hit . My friend recalls diving down three times to grab his father as he sunk almost out of sight,pulling him back to the belly up boat. My friend said that his father had a down jacket on and that he must have weighed 500 lbs,soaking wet.
Well, after an unknown amount of time a boat came to rescue them , the boater saved thier lives , no doubt.
They were taken to the Wild Rose Resort, my friend said that his father was so cold that he couldnt even get from the boat. They had a group of men carry him to warm up inside.
My friends boat washed ashore in the night and spent the night bashing on rocks .
I am still very good friends with my buddy , his father has since died(God bless) and he now has a different brother-in-law.
Ive been trying to get my friend excited to go out and catch a tuna with me, someday.He says that he will have a hard time not being nervous and isnt sure if he could do it at all. id. p.

[fish assassin]

id.painter:

Understandable about your freind being nervous. I have a brother
that was fishing with my dad when his boat flipped ... they were too
close to the surf line and a "sneaker" caught them ... and my dad drown.
My brother held on to the old man until he was soooo cold that he
couldn't grip any more. Didn't really matter at that point. Pops was
gone anyway. At any rate, my brother got *real* cold out there on the
ocean that day and had lots of complications from hypothermia. He wouldn't
go out fishing with me for YEARS after that!

When I finally talked him into going out on a sport salmon trip again,
he was *way* nervous. We were fishing a couple of miles offshore and
weren't catching, but I heard on the radio that they were catching in close
to the mouth of the Nestucca River in about 30-35 feet of water. I ran in
there to fish and my brother almost busted a blood vessel he was so scared!

Last time I took him out on the dory, we were going on a TUNA
run. The water was pretty rough ... one of those days that starts
kinda messy and gets better all day ... but I could tell he wasn't
liking it a whole lot. It was one of the very few times I have ever
gone back in because somebody wasn't feeling good!
:grin: :grin: :grin: :grin:

I guess the point is, if you *do* get your buddy back out on the water,
watch him real closely and if he starts to show nervousness or starts
acting kinda funny (like being *real* quiet and sullen) take him back to
shore. Let him get back to to water & fishing slowly! There will be other
days that the two of you can enjoy! (JMHO)

-assAssin-

[id. painter]

Whow. Very sorry to hear about your father fishassissin Very sad.
Good advice about my friend. He is a fishaholic and still loves to fish, he has never been out on big blue and his reservation is understandable. Ill be careful with him.
But , ive known him since we were 16 and im sure he would love it out there, catching tuna.
Ill start slowly and make sure (as sure as you can be) that we are in for a good weather day.
It would probably be a good idea to start him on a big boat yours or Miss B. id. p.

[fish assassin]

Originally posted by id. painter:

It would probably be a good idea to start him on a big boat yours or Miss B. id. p.

<font size="2" face="verdana,arial,helv">Hah! Mines not a big boat ... now Miss B, *that's* a fish of a
different color! His is a great big, large, tremendously HUGE one!!
:grin: :grin: :grin: :grin: :grin:

-assAssin-