Are downriggers a hassle?

[Catching Nemo]

Over the last year I have been outfitting my boat and I am down to 2 final items (at least for now) that I am thinking about.

The first was a washdown pump which I am certain I will get and install. Seems to be one the highest "must have" items when doing a search on IFISH.

The second item was downriggers. Are they more of a help than a hassle? I know they would be great for Odell Lake but what about the Columbia, MC, B10 and Tillamook. Do they snag more? Are they easier to fish with and get the bait to the right depth? Are they just for trolling or do people use them for Sturgeon fishing as well?

The model I was looking at was the Scotty 1091 manual w/36-60 inch boom. Would this be overkill on a 20FT Weldcraft Sabre (boat has outboard prop)? I would mount them port and starboard near the transom.

I wouldn't have a boat without downriggers. The ones you are looking at are good.

[hookumhi]

I have the Scotty pro pack and I like it. I only use it for trolling on lakes,it is a great way to get down to a certain depth while using lighter gear.My advise would be go out with someone that has them and see if it is the type of fishing for you.Most of the time you can fish just as productive without riggers.If you don't know someone with them give me a message and I'll take you out on my boat.Tight Lines Jim Besides they are EXPENSIVE

[Mojo]

The only time they are a hassle is when the fish are hanging in the top 15 feet of the water column, or the bottom 5 feet. Anywhere in the middle, they are a must have. I installed a couple last year, and can't figure out why I waited so long. They work great!

I use them at 10' and I run them 5' above the bottom. You have to be awake when running close to the bottom though :depressed:

After using downrigers for over 25 years I have an adversion to reeling in fish with weight on my line.

[ 02-17-2004, 10:41 AM: Message edited by: Keta ]

[Silver Hilton]

They're generally a pain in the Columbia, except perhaps up at Hanford reach. I have them, but only use them in the salt.

[illbfish]

They are good once you get used to using them. My first day in Barkley Sound B.C. I hung both 10# weights on a ship wreck. Kind of scarey. They are really nice out at C.R. when the fish bites it's just you & him. No diver to get in the way. I also think you hook more fish with downriggers. Scotty publishes a book on downrigger fishing, you should read it.

[FallRiverGuy]

They are never a hassle in my mind. In the spring I use them for fishing 5 feet deep. Like Keta, I don't like the added weight when fighting fish.

If you can, try both manual and electric. After purchasing my first electric, the other manual was gone in a year and replaced with another electric.

[Rubber Robin]

I fished up in Canada (Barkley Sound) for the first time 3 yrs. ago. It was highly recommended that we get downriggers. I had never used them before, but we purchased them for the trip.

It didn't take long to figure them out and it was great to be able to know your exact depth for fishing. We got easy limits of Silvers that trip for 4 days of fishing.

No weight when you fight the fish!!

I have used them when fishing Buoy 10 in the ocean and river. They have worked great there also. I am going to try them for Springers in the Willamette this year.

Yes, You need them and will want them!!!! :grin:

[greenbuttskunk]

nemo,
I've used them for years and love them. They take a little getting used too, but once you're dialed in, BINGO. I've done well with them from bouy 10 up to hammond on kings and silvers. They are also terrific on Odell, crescent, and other deep lakes for kokanee and macs. Drop me a note if you want any more info. I'd be happy to answer questions.
Keta seems to know his stuff there too.
Good luck!
GBS

[Rubber Robin]

Keta,
I see your pics of the Scotty Power Grips for pinching the line. I have used those and several other styles with mixed success.

I have been plagued with premature line popping from the clip while fishing. We have moved the line further inside the jaws and it didn't seem to make a lot of difference.

While at the Sportsman's show I purchased a new grip that was called the "Pro Release," (I think that was the name)

It has a screw set that is fully adjustable. It allows for light or maximum tension. I can't wait to try it this year. It looks like a big improvement!

[Bounty Hunter]

There was a good DR seminar during the Sportsman's show. They talked about all sorts of DR techniques. The guy was really into Mackinaw (sp?) fishing and said a "Shuttle Hawk" is nice to have too so the kids can target kokanee. (I'm thinking, forget the kids, I need to get me one of those for myself)

RR,
Even with the release in full power mode? I haven't had problems with the small ones even with 20lb Power pro.

These are the best I have found, now I have to get the ones you are talking about and see if they are better :depressed:

[FallRiverGuy]

I have some of the Scotty Power Grips and like them, but for kokanee these are the one I like and use the most. Vance or Seps makes releases like this one You can also get them for stacking.

I have tried the shuttle Hawk and found it more trouble than it was worth. I only tried a few times and gave up. Maybe I should give it a go again this year.


[ 02-17-2004, 02:01 PM: Message edited by: FallRiverGuy ]

[Mojo]

Keta,
I wasn't saying don't use DRs in the top 10 or bottom 5 feet, just that it's a little more work. I believe they are a necessary part of the boat.

Mojo,
I understood what you posted, I was just pointing out that with a bit of work they can be usefully for most trolling. Trolling close to a rough bottom can be a lot of work and you risk loosing gear, even if you keep a close eye on your sounder.

[Mojo]

Yep, Keta I read you 5X5. That's why I troll with the snaps un-hooked if I'm close to the bottom. Denali told me that little trick. Keeps from ripping your 'rigger off the back.

Put bungee cords between the cable and ball they will sometimes bounc you out of the snags.

[ 02-17-2004, 06:39 PM: Message edited by: Keta ]

[daveg]

I got the Scotty DR and it is good, helps catch more fish and they are more fun to catch. My first trip with them, I hadn't read the manual very well and not an experienced DR operator with me. I lost a weight first time down along with the kokanee rig.

I got more careful after that. My dad fishes Canadian waters alot and sold me on the Scotty brand. I think you will be happy you got them.

[Old Salty]

Hi,

Have you ever considered Big Jon Downriggers?
They are very well constructed and are something
also to look into. We have 2 of them, and find
them to be better than, Cannon Downriggers.
Also we run Downrigger Planers on our
Downriggers, they're lighter than the cannonball weights and could be fished with
a release clip as well. We use Blacks releases.
They could be found in the Cabelas catalog, they
do not kink your line, nor do they false release like some of the others. Come visit our web site,
and e-mail us about downrigger trolling, we furnish and manufacture the largest stainless steel diving planers in the country. Sizes are available from 1oz. Rod Planers, and go all the way up to a 32 oz. Downrigger Planer. oldsaltytackle.com, we advertise right on Jennies front page under specialty tackle. We could also e-mail you some pictures of some high quality
releases available to the market.
Good Fishin'
Old Salty
oldsaltytackle.com

[ 02-18-2004, 06:40 AM: Message edited by: skein ]

Ol'Salty,
Can I get a downrigger planer that will work at 6 to 8 knot trolling speed? Like a "Z-Wing 500".

[ 02-17-2004, 10:39 PM: Message edited by: Keta ]

[PRINCEMASTER]

I have a set of mag 10a cannons. I love them but have not used them since moving here from Michigan. Can I get the name of scotty's book? Also I use a steel leader and rubber bands as my release,this allows me to see even the light strikes.

[NAUTI-NOTIONS]

I have a pair of pro-pack 1160
I run stackers and four rods all the time. once you get used to using the drag to lower the gear
you feel naked with out them.
double thumbs up
Sam

[FDB]

I would have to agree DR's are a must, yes you can fish without them but they are really helpful, and IMHO not a hassle. Instead of the 1091's, i would save a few bucks and definately go with electrics (1099's are the first electric ones of the series). After you lose your first fish from fighting the fish and the fish getting cut off from the cable you wish you had them. It is definately a pain fighting, reeling , and cranking, especially when you are by yourself. Just my .02.

[Catching Nemo]

Thanks for the replies.

I will look for the Scotty book.

Electric is out because of the cost.

Should I stick with the 60 inch reach or save a few $'s and get the 1085's with 30 inch arms? Savings would be about $110.

Are there alot of accessories (use the $110) that then need to be bought or just the releases? Different weights?

Also what is blowback?

Thanks

Line angle is of little concern to me. Just guestimate the angle and do the mental math and you will be close.

Arm length depends on your boat. I prefer the shorter ones.

I like to use at least a 12lb ball but the mold I had was for 10lb balls.

Any release will work as long as it's a Scotty Power Grip, they come in large (salmon) and small (trout and kokanee).

[hot wire]

I was told a good tip for determining the appropriate boom length for your boat. You want the boom length to match the distance from the boom heigth to water line. That way you don't beat the **** out of the side of your boat when the ball comes out of the water.
Anyway, I hope that gives you a little help.


Tom

PRINCEMASTER,
Downrigger Fishing Secrets by Dick Pool

[Skipper]

Anyone know of a good cheap source for 12# pancake weights?

Cheerio'
Skipper

[night stocker]

I don't understand what's so terrible about Cannon's?They work for me and they have given me no trouble for years with no maintenence whatsoever.I have two manual's on my boat and I love to get a fish on and crank it up before the fish is ready.I just started big blue fishing last summer with them and they were the shizznit!Deep trolling for chinooks at the rockpile while by myself,is exciting.At 120 feet,I had time to crank it up before the fish was close except one little ten pounder that had a shark on it's tail and it did get wrapped around the cable,but I was able to get the fish with tail still intact.As far as the line being released prematurely,that happens sometimes.You just have to keep tightening the adjustment screw.At least on the Cannon releases.I had that problem last year and switched to the little round pad Cannon's,and I really didn't want to reset my line from 120ft,so I really clamped that thing down.Along came a big bite and I go to set the hook,and the release wouldn't release!Well,I broke my line trying to get that fish about a foot above the release [img]graemlins/dork.gif[/img] Keta,I will try that brand of release.It seems to me that there should be a certain amount of poundage that will enable you to free the line when said bite happens yet not too little that it releases prematuraly.I wish I would have taken my digatal fish scale and found out how many pounds is required.I like to do a test set to make sure it will trip, now.That would save some frustration.I have used the DR on the Willamete trolling for springers with some success.Set it from 12 to 18 ft and troll the deeper water.As far as hanging up on the bottom,the Cannon's have a clutch that I hope would prevent the ball from ripping the DR off the boat.Just set the handle tight enough to hold the depth you want.My friends think I am too mechanical as you don't need to use the DR's.Maybe,but they are fun when you get the hang of using them.A downrigger fisherman is a busy fisherman.I don't remember where I heard that,but it is true.

NS,
It's a "Ford-Chevy" thing.
I use Cannons on Nerta's boat and they work well. I just prefer Scotties so that's what are on my boat. My first downriggers (after the hand line with the cannonball) were made by Luhr Jensen. They were crude but I used them for almost 20 years and then gave them to another Ifish member, as far as I know the're still fishing out of Bandon. One thing I have noticed is Scotties are a bit more saltwater resistant.

[GutZ]

For Manuals get the Penn 600's! You can sometimes find them in Pawn Shops ...
As far as releases go, buy stackers and then cut them up and re-wire them into singles. A lot of places offer stackers for the same price as singles. (ie Cabela's)
If electric, Scotty would seem to be the way to go.

That and two bucks will get you a cup of coffee!

[glowball]

I'll have to agree with those in the DR know about reeling in a fish with nothing between you and it. Makes the fight that much more fun. I wouldn't go fishing in the ocean without them. You'd like the electrics much better, but the manual's will still put fish in the boat.

Kris

[Old Salty]

Originally posted by Keta:
Ol'Salty,
Can I get a downrigger planer that will work at 6 to 8 knot trolling speed? Like a "Z-Wing 500".

<font size="2" face="verdana,arial,helvetica">Yes we carry a high speed planer
that will troll 6-8 knots, our big seller is
the #8 Old Salty Planer. How deep do you plan
on going at that speed? We also carry a #12
High Speed Planer. http://www.oldsaltytackle.com

Good Fishin'
Old Salty
Hope to hear from you

[Birdnest]

I would recommend going with the 30" boom. The 60" would be overkill, hard to reach, and exert unnecessary torque to your boat in the event of a hang up(and you will hang up if you are fishing right). I have the Scotty 1085, 30' boom.

One thing on the Scotty's vs the Penn manual's. You can switch arms on the Scotty's, but due to the configuration of the Penn's handle you can't.

Joe

[Denali]

I'll second the recommendation on the Black's release clips, tension is fully adjustable. On the the high speed planers like the Z-wing, be very careful running them on your downrigger as they produce a tremendous amount of torque on the DR. Be sure your DR mounts have a serious backing plate for those. The only time I've used them we ran them right off the boat cleats in the stern.

[Catching Nemo]

Just so I understand correctly. I won't run into trouble with the a 30 or 36 inch boom versus the 60 inch. My concern is my Sabre is outfitted with a ocean drive/gill bracket/outback/whatever and the 130 Honda prop is about 3 feet further back from the transom. I had some concerns about the cables running into the prop during turns.

If I make slow and easy turns this should not be a problem???

If you go to weldcraftmarine.com and look at the line drawings for the 18FT Maverick you can see what I am talking about (they don't show a picture of the Sabre with the outback). I plan to mount the downriggers in the corners on the transom.

Thanks

[night stocker]

Nemo,I can't imagine your cable being at that angle.If it does,then you have too light of a ball.You need big balls,especially in the ocean I found out.I tried 8lbs,they didn't work.I tried 10lb er's they worked a lot better.Less belly in your cable.I want to get a 12lber to try next year.It seems that the cable should be almost straight down.Oh ya,take it slow and easy on the corners.

[Denali]

Nemo,

Your concerns are valid. It all depends on how far aft you can mount those downriggers. I have an offshore bracket like you and mounted them on the very back corners of the boat. Your main concern assuming you have a kicker is the one mounted next to it. I've got the longest booms available but rarely extend them all the way out.

[Birdnest]

I appreciate your concern for not wanting to wrap a wire in your prop. I don't have an offshore bracket, so I don't know about the 30"'s for that kind of set up. As you said, nice easy turns will go along way no matter what your set up is.

Your wires won't be straight down while trolling even with 12lb balls. You will get "blowback", which is basically force applied to your ball from your forward motion and the current. There are charts out there that estimate your actual depth based on speed and length of cable you have out. You usually can see your balls on your FF so you can check your actual depth vs stated.

Don't make this harder than it is. After a little time you will get a feel for where you are then it's stinky fish box time.

Joe

[metalhead madness]

got 2 scottys last summer and love em [img]graemlins/hearton.gif[/img] I really enjoy having the electrics with a short boom. Makes for easy operation by yourself

locked and loaded at Cresent Lake

[Space]

Scotty Propack, 116 is the model number I do believe. I say save your money for just a little while longer and purchase the electric model. When the fish hits all you need to do is push the up parascope button. Then it's just you and the fish. No worries about getting wrapped in the D.R cable. I love mine. Especially at bouy 10 and beyond. It's a must have.
SPACE

[Born to Fish]

Nemo, I bought an 18-ft Weldcraft Renegade in December and have since purchased two electric Scotty 1100's [30-inch boom] via eBay - got good prices on each and as far as I'm concerned electrics are well worth the additional money instead of having manual DR's.

I've fished with manual DR's on my old boats over the years, and on other folks' boats, but after fishing with electric Scotty's on Denali's boats in salt and on the Hanford Reach I was sold. They're great, especially if you're fishing alone, as I often am.

The other night I purchased some snubbers on eBay, also for a better price then offered in the catalogs. There are more still out there for sale. BTW, that Scotty's DR Secrets book is also available on eBay for just under $10.

Denali, can you provide a source on the internet where you can buy those releases you mentioned. I was impressed with how well they worked at Sekiu - seemed much better then the pinch-styles I've used in the past. I haven't seen them in any of the catalogs I've got,....but then again, I don't have a hard-bound Cabela's master catalog like you do [check out the thread on that subject on steelheader.net].

Dean

[ 02-18-2004, 07:32 PM: Message edited by: Born to Fish ]

[Wood N' Fish]

I fish a couple Scotty 1100 electrics. I prefer to think when fishing with 'em, that this really is finesse' fishing!" If yer one of those who don't believe in what yer fish finder is tellin ya' Don't use them! If controlled depth fishing is what you are about, by all means, go for it! Since I have some sea time, chasing after things don't bother me. Thank_you

[trollin4trout]

Regarding the turning and worry about catching the prop. I have short booms and it's often scary making turns- it looks like my wires are VERY close to the prop. I think my prop is about 2 ft. behind my wire. Luckily, I haven't caught one yet.
Seems like 3 ft back would be a better situation-not worse.

I would say that always making slow turns is a pipedream. When you're following a contour on the bottom and you see the hill coming on the depthfinder in a hurry- you have to turn NOW! The wind always picks up right then also and right quick you have both balls dragging bottom or snagged. I would think that heavier lead would keep the wire in front of the prop better.

Even with these worries I would still stay with the shorter booms if I were to upgrade (like to elctrics) because of the the need to reach the wire and release clip easily. Reaching out there in a rough water situation is not fun and any further would be impractical. Besides, while trout fishing I may have to hook that thing up 50-100 times in a day and it needs to be handy and fast.

And I would take a rope and a bucket of rocks with a clothespin attached before I would go fishing without my downriggers!

[Aufish101]

Catching Nemo:

If you troll for Kokanee, they are a must for lite action rods. As for releases, I like the Sep's for Kokanee, same as FallRiverGuy.

Aufish101

[Wood N' Fish]

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