EPIRB and survival suits

bait boy · 01-07-2003, 12:43 PM

Since f.a. brought it up I thought it would be interesting to find out how many of us salty dogs actually have survival suits and/or EPIRB's

I know of very few folks (like none) who have invested in any of either.

F.A is required to have some type of EPIRB because of the coasties rules for CV's.

We all seem to be really good about giving advice when sometimes we don't heed our own warnings.......

fish assassin · 01-07-2003, 12:54 PM

Bait Boy:

EPIRB, life raft, survival suits, parachute flares ... all required
for me to fish out over 12 miles (and some of those I need to fish
outside of 3 miles).

Required or not, I think that especially now, with the CG being given
so many other duties under "homeland security" that it's important to
have these items on board when you are a long way from home (like TUNA
fishing). The CG is short-handed NOW without all their other duties
and it may take quite a bit of time to find you ... seems to me it would
be prudent to look out for oneself as best as possible until they
*can* get to you!

-assAssin-

Miss B Haven · 01-07-2003, 12:57 PM

Ok - I'll get on the confession board first. Nope and Nope (and I'll add a third Nope for the life raft). Not because I don't want them, just a matter of the bucks. Don't venture out by myself very often either. I'd rather have the company than either one of the above items actually. :smile:

While we're on this subject, if your going to buy suits, do you buy everyone a suit or just one for yourself (and or mate)? It's 250-350 per suit, that's 1500 bucks min to provide my whole crew. What's the opinion? If you don't, have enough who gets the suit(s) if the unmentionable happens? Man - could be a tough choice here huh? :depressed:

Anybody still wanna go TUNA fishing with me? :shocked:

[ 01-07-2003, 02:04 PM: Message edited by: Miss B Haven ]

fish assassin · 01-07-2003, 01:05 PM

Mel,

Suits all around! Watch the papers ... you can find suits that
guys have laying around for as little a 100 bucks. I got two that way!

Suits increase your chances of surviving in cold water by HUGE factors.

Another alternative to the "gumby suit" (the full survival suit)
is a "Mustang" working suit. Hands, feet and head are not covered
when you get in the suit ... you add them by pulling gloves and head gear
out of pockets after you go in the drink. More comfortable and allows
your hands to be free so you can try to save your boat if things take a
bad turn. About the same price!

-assAssin-

Pilar · 01-07-2003, 01:27 PM

FA, what about a dry suit? Then I could get the diving thing going again. Would a dry suit work?

Oh yeah .... nope and nope. Where would I put it anyway?> I barely have room for more than 36 fish.

OceanBlue · 01-07-2003, 01:40 PM

36 fish and one Mate. Hmmm... you could leave me behind, then you'd have room for...

Naw! You can't do that! Who'd whisper to the fish and drive the boat while reeling in bullets?

id. painter · 01-07-2003, 01:59 PM

Thanks bait boy for the survey. It makes me feel less stupid to know im not the only one out here that dosnt have unlimited funds for thing like life saving suites. It also helps me get a feel for what you guys have as gear on these runs. Not just ideally, but really have with you. Thanks Bait Boy.... id. painter

Threemuch · 01-07-2003, 03:04 PM

No survival suits, but I do have a wetsuit on board, which would extend my life in the water for 6-10 hours, I imagine. So I could watch my crew die from hypothermia I suppose.

Problem with suits for crew is size. A suit that doesn't fit is not of much value. My crew varies alot, and I don't have the $$ to buy a dozen suits.

EPIRB. Of some value, esp in locating the bodies, survivors or raft, but you better have some protection. Usually the coasties will call a Pon Pon on an EPIRB signal that is not accompanied by a VHF mayday. They don't go investigate unless they are already in the area. How about a waterproof handheld VHF? Probably a good idea, especially if you get the new Simrad unit with built in DSC.

Assassin, what's the magic about 12 miles? The way I figure, if you are more than swiming distance from shore (about 400 yards in these waters) you are in big trouble if you go in unprotected.

Best protection is another boat that you are in regular contact with, that you trust, who will risk his fishing day, his gear, and even his own life to save yours.

Miss B Haven · 01-07-2003, 03:34 PM

Threemuch- actually there's only 2 sizes of the survival suits I've seen (Extra large and Costco). They aren't made for showing off your girlish figure. I'm guessing that all large except for one Costco would be the way to go. Biggest person on board gets the Costco size!
I'm still having nightmares about having 5 people on board and 4 suits though. I guess the 2 smallest could share the Costco size!

Mark Mc · 01-07-2003, 04:07 PM

I have an exposure suit made by Stearns (same as Coasties use). It's made to the same specs as the Mustang, but costs less. I confess that I don't wear it 100% of the time out there, as it really cooks on the warm (Flat!) days. I usually wear it on the way out to the ranch or the tuna grounds, take it off for fishing, and put it back on for the trip back. I keep a handheld submersible VHF (made by Standard) in the pocket of the exposure suit.

Bought it at Englunds. Go try one on sometime!

fishwhenican · 01-07-2003, 05:24 PM

1st TUNA trip both of us had dry suits would still be difficult to get into when in the water if the boat went down

no EPIRB but from what I read the only good EPIRB would be the 406.? MHZ the response time on the less expensive ones is over 12 hours

Kurt survival times with a wet suit would be close to response time with the less expensive EPIRB

I am looking at getting a survival suit so 3 people could go on trip, and no eni-minie-minei-mo for who gets what

I got a dry bag to put 2nd gps (in it's own dry bag), and flares, and handheld VHF (in a dry bag-it's not waterproof) because if my boat fills with water it will sink.

Question: how far can the Coast Guard hear you if you are transmitting on a 5 watt handheld VHF? I think I saw that it depends a lot on the receiving antenna, a "local" boat would only be 5 miles?

Fish Assassin: isn't the new requirement a 406 mhz EPIRB? would it be a waste of money to buy a cheaper none? tell me more.

Pillar: a drysuit is much more "movement" friendly than a survival suit, but they cost more and would be harder to get on in the water than a survival suit

Miss B: many brands of survival suits some are 1 size fits all (+ costco size) and some have 8-10 diff. sizes

I really "want" a new Furuno color depth finder, but I think that the extra survival suit comes 1st

Sensei-san · 01-07-2003, 06:30 PM

Even a survival suit won't save you if the water is cold enough. Ask the guy that died last week. He was in the water for 30 hrs. The Coast Guard blamed a faulty strobe light on his suit for the reason they couldn't find him.

All the safety gear in the world won't do any good if you don't have the time to activate it. From donning a survival suit to deploying an EPIRB or life raft. As we are talking about tuna fishing the odds are that the water temps will be in the range of 56-65 degrees. At this temp, survival can be in the hours to days level. So the FIRST thing would be to always have a life vest on. An automatic inflating one would be best. That way if you got knocked unconscious you would still float.

A good waterproof handheld VHF would be my second choice safety item. If there was a remote chance that a boat was in the area, you might get a signal out to hail them.

But the best safety item is that gray matter between the ears. If it looks like the situation is beyond your's and your boat's capabilities, don't go.

black magic · 01-07-2003, 07:43 PM

I have on board a life raft built by Switlik. It is called a rescue platform. It is in a valise (canvas bag). I bought it used from http://www.pacificmarine.com/ For $450. It weighs about 50# and is no larger than a small cooler. Of course it cost another $425 to get it repacked for the first time by a US Coast Guard certified repacker. Once everything is up to date subsequent repackings are only about $225. I am having mine done annually but I suppose it may not be necessary to do it that often. It is thoroughly tested for everything when it is repacked and the CO2 bottle is recharged. It has flares, flashlight, strobelights, sea anchor, etc. It is a large round inflatible doughnut with no top and is 9' in diameter.
I also carry a handheld VHF in a waterproof bag which is tied to the raft.
This raft I am told is an aviation raft. It would not be legal if a raft were required by the USCG on sport boats, but since they are not I am free to use anything that I chose. So in other words aviation or other types of rafts are an option.
A 406 EPIRB is on my wish list next. As far as the Coast Guard not looking for you when only your EPIRB signal is recieved is only true when they cannot contact anyone on the phone list that you submitted when you registered your EPIRB and therefore cannot determine whether or not it is a false alarm. They do recieve many false alarms. The key is to let someone at one of these phone numbers know that you are going offshore. A better EPIRB is one that has an internal GPS. It broadcasts a distress call along with the coordinates if its location. This is very helpful to search and rescue as they would be able to tell that the signal is coming from your garage in Portland.
My number one concern offshore is fire, in particular with gasoline and not so much with diesel.
Gasoline fires can build so fast that you don't have much time to do anything except jump overboard, sometimes without even getting off a mayday. A 24' boat would not last long with 75 gals. of gas feeding a fire onboard. An engine room fire suppression system is another nice thing to have.
You don't have to be as paranoid as I am about safety, but you should go far offshore only when accompanied by at least one other boat if you have no EPIRB and survival equipment

One more thing: The maximum range for a VHF radio at maximum transmit power is claimed to be only 25 miles. I think that requires a very tall antenna and a radio in perfect condition at that. So when you are far offshore you are out of communication range with shore. One more reason for an EPIRB or at least a satellite
phone.

[ 01-07-2003, 08:54 PM: Message edited by: black magic ]

Mark Mc · 01-07-2003, 08:18 PM

Hiya Mr Holloway, I sure like the raft option. There are some pretty robust systems out there now. You're right though, the maintenance / repack is expensive.

We have discussed the VHF thing before. Many factors influence the distance a signal will go: quality of radio, and especially quality of all connections; antenna gain & height; finally the line-of-sight. VHF is primarily line-of-site. I did a radio check with my 5 watt handheld, and got clear reception from 35 miles. No baloney! But...it was from the top of Marys peak! From offshore, with good equipment and a 9 db antenna, you can reach the Coast Guard from 40 - 50 miles out easily. Farther on a good day. But with a cheap, 6 db antenna 20 - 25 miles is more typical.

If you really want guaranteed radio communication offshore, you go to single sideband. It bounces off the atmoshpere (not line-of-site). This is generally not skiff equipment though.

I look at the handheld #1 as a way to get a distress call out before going in the water, if some disaster prevents the fixed radio from being used. Once in the water, yea I doubt the signal would go too far because you're as low as you can get (without being underwater!). So hopefully by that time someone is already coming, or is nearby. It's better than what the professor used on Gilligan's Island (coconut shells with a battery?).

[ 01-07-2003, 09:30 PM: Message edited by: Mark Mc ]

WP · 01-07-2003, 08:21 PM

No EPIRB, no raft, no survival suits. Money and room are constraints. I would like to have survival suits because I hate wearing them and they CAN be put on in the water. If you go down on the Tuna grounds, no matter the equipment...without a partner(s), you have less chance of survival than you think. Though I think all precautions possible are a good idea, I don't think reliance on equipment is a sound prospect. I have had the good fortune to never be at personal risk, to date, but I have also had the good fortune to be able to provide emergency aid on three occassions. In each case the boats were set-up and equiped well and in each case the presence of others has probably saved potential life threatening situations. Frequently it is not the water that is the major problem but rather a symptom of the problem. Surf, rocks, sneakers, fires, and boats disintegrating are what I have been aware of. A boat I used to tuna fish commercially, ended its life in Coos Bay, several years after I had stopped fishing. It had dry rot in the ribs so bad, it litterally fell apart. Two boats have been towed off before they hit the rocks, while I was in the area...one by me and one by another commercial. I have not experienced a situation where a sneaker caught someone but a friend of mine lost several people to one a few years ago. More boats are lost close to shore than out deep, however...vigilance, caution, and partner boats are easily the most important attributes.
WP

pkg40 · 01-07-2003, 08:36 PM

EPIRB with hyrostatic release, Survival Suits (4 used at $50/ea). Life raft. SSB. I figure I am 1/2 way to being equipped to make the run from SD to Cabo (Still need more equipment spares). I have built up the supplies over the years as I could afford them.On my earlier smaller boats I didn't have nearly as much equipment.

Maybe most important of all, I always leave someone at home with a float plan and instructions to contact CG if I don't check in by dark.

Fishplay · 01-08-2003, 04:48 AM

Posted by MissB

Quote:

Anybody still wanna go TUNA fishing with me?

<font size="2" face="verdana,arial,helv">Anytime you have an opening Mel!!!!!!

fish assassin · 01-08-2003, 06:56 AM

Pilar:

Dry suits may be an option if you are wearing them before you
get wet, but survival suits are made to keep you WARM and can be put on IN the water!

Threemuch:

A wetsuit would be hard to get into if you are already in the
water?? As for 12 miles ... CG rules and regs for commercial boats.

Basicly sports saftey equiptment inside 3 miles, A flare
kit, epirb and survival suits 3-12 miles, and a raft beyond
12 miles.

-assAssin-

Popeye · 01-08-2003, 07:26 AM

CG required equipment is also dependent on size and tonnage of the vessel. The best thing for anybody, is to ask the CG auxilary for a courtesy inspection of their boat. After you've gotten everything that's mandatory, add to that for your own comfort/pocket book

Threemuch · 01-08-2003, 08:03 AM

Wetsuit is easy to put on in the water, but probably would not help much, being black, and all. Maybe I will spraypaint it orange.
One thing that would be a big bonus in being spotted that I don't have, that it cheap is a streamer, you know, a 30' strip of orange nylon.

id. painter · 01-08-2003, 10:28 AM

This is all great stuff. Unfortunatly, if I end up in the drink, im in big trouble. My spinal injury has left me with Hoffmans. If i get chilled i cant even open my hands, let alone put on a suit and swim at the same time. This winter has been very tough. I cant do anything outside. When i put gas in my truck, its all i can do to walk in and pay. As i get chilled my entire body locks up, cant lift my legs or function at all. The summer is great, warm, warm, warm.
It sounds like i should have a suit on ,when fishing anywhere, except the tropics. I probably need one more than any of you . I will get some. id. painter

id. painter · 01-08-2003, 12:10 PM

Cool link Skien, that would be a good answer for me till i can come up with enough $ to have my own. THANKS. id. painter

Mark Mc · 01-08-2003, 12:28 PM

Hi id., if you think a work/exposure suit may be appropriate for you, I would encourage you to look at that Stearns (or Mustang) suit that I mentioned above (in the picture). As I stated it can get warm, but I have adapted by wearing very light, breathable clothes underneath (polypro underwear, light "climbers" pants). If I need to cool off but don't want to take it off, I just pull down the zipper a ways & "breath" for a few minutes. Fortunately, our weather here means far more overcast / cool days than the rare flat calm AND sunny days. Get to Englunds in Astoria or Newport to try one on (not sure if you can find one closer?). These suits are great because you can move around real easily in them, and it's on you ready to go. Too many stories about finding bodies in the water, and the survival suit stowed inside the boat.

fish assassin · 01-08-2003, 12:41 PM

I want to say, I agree with all Mark Mc had to say in the above post ...

A couple of more things about the Mustangs and survival suits in
general:

1) If you can get to a CG auction ... don't ask me, I don't have dates
or places ... they sell all sorts of stuff really cheap. My boy said
they had several of the mustang suits *cheap* at the auction last
year.

2) A survival suit is good for more than just being in the water.
If you ever have need of pulling somebody out of the water and
they are tending toward hypothermic you can put them in the suits
(either the "gumby" style or the Mustang style) to quickly warm them.
Better than a blanket, safer than putting them in front of a
heater.

-assAssin-

id. painter · 01-08-2003, 01:33 PM

Great advice, assAssin. Im very excited for the tip .
I have been very worried about my condition and loving to fish. I have spent many hours pondering the consequences of my condition. The absolute biggest problem for me would be , to end up in the drink. It sounds like a good solution. Thanks soooo much. id. painter

pirk fan · 01-08-2003, 07:00 PM

Two survival "gumby" suits, and a 6 man raft with inflator (not CG approved, but in a pinch, who cares), arial and handheld flares, waterproof handheld marine radio, waterproof gps.

WP · 01-08-2003, 09:57 PM

secondary (waterproof) GPS and VHF radio are a must for me now. Last year my Radio was not reaching out appropriately. Very scary! A helpimg partner is only as useful as your ability to communicate to them!
a much chagrined and improved tunaholic,
WP

[ 01-08-2003, 10:58 PM: Message edited by: WP ]

Silver One · 01-08-2003, 10:49 PM

Thanks all, many great posts. Last May I took the Coast Guard Auxillary boating safety class. During this class they showed a film interview of a man who had tried to navigate the Puget Sound during the dark of night in the middle of winter in a Zodiak. As he explained it he had worked all day on his cabin on an island in the sound and had got a late start back to the mainland. Somehow he managed to hit something big which through him overboard. Didn't say what or where the inflateable ended up. His only good luck was that he was wearing a Mustang float coat. He began swimming and after many hours managed to get close to some lights on shore and heard some voices in the distance. He began yelling and was thereby rescued.

After 20+ years of boating his testimonial made me a believer. Before I ventured afloat again I had a Mustang coat for my wife and I aboard our boat. Though obviously not a survival suit it is a compromise and is actually very confortable for hours at a time.

After reading some of the other posts I think I will add to the coats the 406 Epirb and the handheld VHF for starters.

Mike

bait boy · 01-08-2003, 11:09 PM

ID sounds like at a minimum for you would be a wear all the time life jacket. self inflating maybe?

I know it gets warm out on the water so how do you get around the suit thing in the warm weather? They look like a sauna waiting to happen.

id. painter · 01-08-2003, 11:25 PM

Yep, I think you are right , Bait Boy. I should be in a suit at all times when on the water. Ill need to look into the different types and get one that i can fish in, and not over heat. Might be a tough order though. id. painter

skein · 01-08-2003, 11:44 PM

Anybody ever thought about renting one? Check this out:

EPIRB

Skein

sturgn · 01-09-2003, 06:19 AM

I dont carry any but I will in my next offshore boat, heres a quick search of some stuff on Ebay(Love that site!)

Ebay Survival suits!

Epirbs

Life Rafts!

Miss B Haven · 01-09-2003, 06:39 AM

Hmmm - I like the Barbie life raft. Does she come with it though? :grin:

Good info sturgn. Wish I had some boat bucks to blow. Still (arghhh) 6 months till TUNA so maybe my personal economy will improve before then.

id. painter · 01-09-2003, 06:52 AM

After careful consideration, i want a 406 ephrib for my boat and,at least two suits with ephrib.
I absolutly need to have a P.F.D. on at all times, and will it probably be a suit.If i can stand the heat thing. id . painter

fish assassin · 01-09-2003, 06:52 AM

Something to consider when buying saftey equiptment used ...

Survival Suits
--------------
Good to buy used if they are in good shape (no permenent creases
caused by leaving them folded the same way for years), NO obvious
mold or mildew on the suits.

EPIRB:
------
Not as good to buy used. Batteries need to be replaced every couple
of years (5?) and they are expensive! When I went to replace the battery
in my old one I found out that I could get a new, smaller version epirb
for only about 50 bucks more than the new one cost.

Life Raft:
----------

CG approved life rafts need to be repacked every year or two
depending on the manuf. This costs some fairly large bucks and
you *could* be money ahead by buying a new one that doesn't need
repacking for 2-4 years. Also, the material in the rafts have a limited
life span. Try to stay away from any that are 10+ years old. Remember,
this is your LIFE we're talking about!

-assAssin-

id. painter · 01-09-2003, 07:07 AM

Thanks assAssin, again. Sorry about the spelling EPIRB.
The fingers on my right hand are still numb and i mis- key all the time.
id. painter

Tinman · 01-09-2003, 12:39 PM

Great thread...I've been wearing a full wetsuit whenever I go out on the ocean. I'm usually by myself in a 15 footer, and one of my main concerns is the bar. Sometimes I cross at Netarts (when surf is under 2 feet), and I sometimes put on swim fins while crossing. That way, if I get pooped, I'm no worse off than if I were out there body surfing, which I have done a lot of in days gone by.

I wear the wetsuit when crossing the T-bay bar as well. Though I have never seen a sneaker wave, the stories are enough to make me put the suit on.

Wetsuits are acceptably comfortable, especially on a 15 footer where nothing is comfortable anyway. The wetsuit chafes my neck a bit, and I've not solved that problem yet.

As I see it, an unprotected person in 50 degree water has about 5 or 10 minutes to save themselves. After that, hypothermia becomes totally debilitating, and the person can't move or think properly. It may be another 45 minutes before your heart stops, but the point is, you only have 5 or 10 good minutes. That is why I WEAR the wetsuit all day and comfort be damned.

Are there any other wetsuit wearers out there?

id. painter · 01-09-2003, 12:57 PM

Good point , Tinman. If a normal person only has 5or 10 minutes, i must have about 30 seconds at best. I will be a suit kind of fisherperson. NO DOUBT. id. p.

Miss B Haven · 07-10-2003, 07:33 AM

Ok- here's one to get back up to the top. Haven't found the "what gear do you have on board" one yet.

DriftR · 07-10-2003, 09:29 AM

Just arrived this week. My brand new Mustang Ocean Commander survival suit. Pricey? Yes. But compact and somewhat lighter than the neoprene suits. I have had a Mustang Float Coat (USCG Approved) for two years and just love that baby. Doesn't even look like a float coat. Use it all the time offshore, in the CR and when I'm drift boating. With that new Mustang suit I have a flashing/floating strobe light, whistle and mirror that I added. Soon will add a waterproof VHF handheld. Never can have too much safety gear.