GPS locations

WP · 11-22-2002, 02:45 PM

I wonder if it would be possible to establish a place on Ifish that we could store GPS coordinates for various fishing landmarks? We could have Rockpile, Chicken Ranch, Tunatown, Halibut Hill, inside halibut holes, popular reefs, ETC. Anything that people are willing to share as starting spots. It is way easier to load some waypoints in a cluster, from home than "on the fly". It also helps people new to a fishery to get a start. I know I would find it helpful! It would also be somewhere to go when you decide to try a new place and not require a new "topic" to ask for help! Just a thought, Jen?
WP

sturgn · 11-23-2002, 05:35 PM

I can set up a secure spot with passwords for this purpose on my server, course then I have to have ALL the numbers :grin: ......

get hooked · 11-23-2002, 08:35 PM

WP, I would like that kind of info also. I used to have some old TD's for my loran when I moored down in Newport, but I sold that boat and let the new owner have them as I didn't think I would get another boat (duh). Well here I am with a new boat and no numbers. I have a GPS so I would like very much for people to share with us.

WP · 11-23-2002, 11:27 PM

Sturgn,
That would be great! (I don't mind if you have them, I just want access when starting a new trip!)

WP

Pilar · 11-25-2002, 07:50 AM

I'll ask the boss, user #2.

Sounds like a good idea to me. But I think we should encrypt the numbers and make the key available only to tunaholics who are actively participating in the 'Program'.

Or ... not

skein · 11-27-2002, 01:29 PM

A wannabe speaks:

Coordinates or not, I'm not gonna venture out without a companion boat or two with some gen-u-wine experienced skippers on them. Sure, I can follow my GPS to a "spot," but then what. I still have to learn the basics like rigging, speed, depth, bleeding, quenching, and reading the weather (preferably before it gets nasty). By the time I'd be ready to go on my own (not alone), I'll have the coordinates from being there!

The learning curve alone will be an Add-Venture! Let the games begin! Just 225 days 'til July 10th.

Skein

[ 11-27-2002, 02:32 PM: Message edited by: skein ]

Pilar · 11-27-2002, 01:51 PM

Skein, if you wait until Mid July, you'll be the late show.

It is my intent to venture forth with my intrepid mate and land the first sport caught Albacore next year. And I'm not waiting until mid July to try it.

As soon as the weather breaks .... and ... and //////// and ... damn where's them tonic pills.

Maybe even the first sport Billfish, while you are bull********!

[ 11-27-2002, 03:07 PM: Message edited by: Pilar ]

OceanBlue · 11-27-2002, 02:03 PM

Remember, here at Albacore Anonymous, the intent is not recovery, it is enablement :grin:

Recovery is futile

Pilar · 11-27-2002, 02:05 PM

How about some ideas on how to organize this thing, ladies and gents.....

Who can add a point to the list? How do we verify the spots on the list?

Do we classify points by launching point? or destination?

I have quite few now and its in an excel spreadsheet. For me format is unimportant because it has to be hand keyed in on the 350A box anyway. Is format important to your plastic jesus? Do you upload waypoints with a PC?

Do we rate locations after trying them?

What about zipperlips? Yes, by golly I have a few in big blue ... itty bitty reefs that won't take more than a few plunders a year. You can have them all but those.

What about routes and approaches to/from fog bound places like CR and Depoe bay? Or routes across shallow bays for night crabbing? How do we deal with liability? If you follow my route but fat finger a coordinate and mistype, is the misfortune your own or do we share?

Most important for me .. and some of you know this, you have the file. Is that I have some confidence in your ability to use the info without getting into trouble. GPS can give the inexperienced a sense of confidence beyond their abilities. I know this because I been there and done that. (inexperienced with GPS and got in trouble)

So how do we keep some doughball from scooping up all the waypoints and then following them to his doom? Or some live rockfish dude with 200 pots. Do we want to tell the whole internet where to carc the Oregon coast?

The responsibility level here is high, folks. GPS is a fish killing machine when structure based fishing is involved.

Sorry for all the hard questions but I feel a bit like a gun salesman in a rough neighborhood.

If we can flesh this out a bit then Jen will know what we are asking for.

Your thoughts?

11-27-2002, 02:36 PM

Inshore bottom fish reefs- No

Halibut holes- maybe

Tuna - yes

Billfish- You're going to have to kill me before I tell (Corirod, don't tell them no mater what they do to me)

get hooked · 11-27-2002, 02:44 PM

Pilar, I believe the coordinates that are given are for reference only. Just like the disclaimer on your gps. These points are for reference and in no way take precedence over a NOAA chart. There for, it will be the responsibility of the person using these coordinates to cross reference them with a up-to-date NOAA chart of that area. Also, may be a word of caution as to be qualified for blue water travel. I've spent 10 years with the Coast Guard and I still need refresher courses now and then because I don't do these kind of things on a regular basis. Hope we can come up with something.

skein · 11-27-2002, 02:52 PM

All good points, Pilar.

I can put it on the web, password protect it, make it searchable, make it secure, track who uses it and when, set it up so new coordinates can be added but are not searchable until they are verified, and even add ratings and comment sections. Your spreadsheet will convert - no problem. That's the mechanics. The easy part.

The group needs to decide who accesses it, what's in it, and where we post the link to it (and 400 other caveats that I can't think of right now). ....Uh, did you notice I snuck in the "we" word in the last sentence?

And please, don't anyone kill Keta until I have a chance to go fishing with him....

Skein

[ 11-27-2002, 03:54 PM: Message edited by: skein ]

Mark Mc · 11-27-2002, 05:36 PM

Hi All, the work week is over, and I'm sipping on some Scotch right now, so i'ts time to chime in.

WP, thanks for your initial post. I've read it 3 or 4 times so as not to let my brain stray to far from your original intent. I agree with your intent and I think it's a fine idea *if used with understanding*.

For example, deep water halibut areas. The chicken ranch is no secret. It's not critical to have numbers to get there, because the season is short and there are a hundred or more freakin boats headed there, and on the "spot" once you get there. But it's still good to have approximate numbers to plug in to set your own course, and not wonder if the other boats around you, barrelling through the fog, know where they are going too. In fact, we like to set a course a mile or so above the spot, to get away from all the traffic. 44deg29min N x 124deg44min W gets you in the ballpark; now traverse the area with your meter to figure out where the edges are.

But for most other "structure-related" areas, before even worrying about numbers, do you have a chart? The chart tells you where the rockpile (Stonewall Bank) is, and all its features. Same with the reefs near Seal Rocks. Not to mention the hazards near the jetty. I would find it somewhere between naive and foolish to be worried about gps numbers from others, when you have not even spent the 8 or 10 dollars on the chart for the area. Chart # 18580 (Yaquina & south) and # 18520 (Yaquina & north). Englund's has them, or online at:

link to charts for sale

Stonewall Bank is about 12 nautical miles long. So sure, we could post numbers for "north end", "middle", and "south end", or "where I caught a halibut in June 2002", but again you would learn a heck of a lot more about the rockpile by just getting a chart and studying it.

Another spot occaisonally mentioned is "Nelson's Island" which is simply that big 100 fathom circle, with a 67 fathom pinnacle on it, at 44 40 x 124 44. Again, it's right on the chart. But it's so huge you'd need to just go there and meter the bottom to figure out what's there.

As for tuna, there is not really a "spot" per se. Sure, we talk about 145 x 25. But there is really a huge area off Depoe & Newport, 20 miles long N&S, by 10 miles E&W, where the 500 fathom line drops to 1000 fathoms, with some fingers & trenches here & there, that frequently have the upwelling associated with them. But the only important gps numbers are either (1) the numbers you pull off of Terrafin or Coastwatch that show where the warm, sharp temperature breaks are at the time, and (2) the numbers from a very recent (successful) fish report.

As for the little "secret spots" like small reefs, wrecks, & the like not on the chart, I have a little story.

During my stint in Fort Bragg CA, I found a little bump of a rock in 60 fathoms in the middle of sand & mud. This rock is no bigger than 50 feet long by maybe 20 feet wide, and 30 feet high. This rock was inhabited by mojo yellowtail rockfish, all 5-6 pounders. For two years, I would visit this spot a few times a month. When they bit, it was every hook. 15 fish limits for passengers on the charterboat; or 1000 to 1200 pounds by myself when commercial fishing. I never let anyone find me there. Then one day, the other charterboat skippers were having a hard time ("fish won't bite, blah blah") and one of them was calling me & calling me. I was on this spot just brailing 'em, and they were only 3 miles away. The guilt set in, and I called them. "You see me out here? Get over here." So these two guys come over, and they get limits of these mojo yellows. Well, like crack addicts, they proceeded to come to that little spot every day thereafter. Other boats saw them there. Next thing I know there are 3 party boats and 2 commercial guys all at the same time on this spot, and they were wiped off the spot in less than 2 weeks. Oh, the kicker is that one of the other charter guys says to me, when I am there by myself with my one rod, "it's OK for you to fish like that because it doesn't get in our way."

Was I sorry that this happened? Yes I was. But in the grand scheme of things I don't regret sharing, because I've always done that and it's paid me back triple. All this being said, I believe that if any of us have these little not-on-the-chart spots, that if we publicly post the numbers it is a virtual guarantee that these spots will get wiped out.

So while I agree with posting certain "general landmark" numbers, we will do more good for the up & coming by focusing on how to find fish on one's own, rather than "enable" them to be dependent on numbers for a "spot."

Have a good Thanksgiving everyone.....

Mark

get hooked · 11-27-2002, 09:33 PM

Mark, very well put. [img]graemlins/applause.gif[/img] I couldn't agree with you more.

NAUTI-NOTIONS · 11-27-2002, 11:03 PM

Here ,Here, Pilar
Us so called wannbe's need to see the coord. to build the knowledge off of successful trips.
the more i know the better my chance's
I'm kinda like the little engine. "I think I can"
A fellow could take those coord. puch them in @ maptec.com and pin point a starting location or rally point.
its a great Idea [img]graemlins/applause.gif[/img]

WP · 11-28-2002, 08:08 AM

I gotta tell ya, I am not particularly interested in exact "secret locations"! Some of the fun of ocean fishing is the search for pinacles and holding spots. Especially for bottom species. Charts are always a neccesity and can not be replaced by general conversational knowledge.
What I had in mind were starting points...The rockpile is a good example. There is a lot of water there! For those of us that are new to an area or fishery (not the ocean) it is helpful to have a general guide to start us out. When I went out for Halibut this year, it was my first halibut fishing from Newport. I went to the pile and fished. I had no idea where the Ranch was and had heard good reports from Stonewall. I did get some butt's but it was really just luck. I would have appreciated coordinates or guidance on what area of that large fishery was good butt country. Tuna is another example. I am new to this fishery (Other than some commercial experience out of CoosBay, in my youth) and really appreciated the help I got here in locating fish and hooking up with other boats. The knowledge of the coordinates for Tuna Town gave me a target to keep in mind as the fleet of boats began to separate and hunt. Salmon are even more fickle than other species and (to me) harder to identify holding areas that are consistent. A log of generally successful locations for various ports gives help in developing my own preferences!
I am not the most consistent person in entering all GPS waypoints into my GPS. I tend to write down locations on paper! (I am too old for some of these modern things, I think!) Having a storage location helps overcome this.
Going out of new ports can be "interesting" to say the least. GPS locations for fishing areas are just helpful and can help get the day off to a good start.
I don't think small spots make good references to share...too easily depleted...makes for crowds, and frustration...It seems to me GPS readings should not be too specific. Either a range or use "X"'s for the last values to generalize the "spot"
At least this got a great discussion going!

WP

WP · 11-28-2002, 08:10 AM

Marm,
Got any of that scotch to share? A gentle evening sipping scotch and sharing yarns seems like a lovely way to pass the time!
WP

Bstnwaler · 11-28-2002, 08:16 AM

Down here in California a few of the clubs and lists have posted the numbers for the MAJOR spots...DogBone,601,Weenie...etc..these are general tuna areas..they also posted the numbers for MAJOR reefs,,Cordell,Fanny,Deep..etc (of course now all of these are useless with the 120 ft closure),finally they posted the numbers of bouys and harbor entrances..it works great for helping a newcomer learn the area..I agree though small reefs and holes should be shared individaully...just my.02 worth

NAUTI-NOTIONS · 11-29-2002, 07:17 AM

I feel just GPS coordinates would some what dangerous, a comment area regarding the coordinates would be a must, If I were to post coordinates on swift sure bank out of The straits of Juan De Fuca you’d run thru some nasty ocean, when the best route takes you between the rocks and main land going south to get north, first thought on gsp coordinates was yes, great ,,, but after thinking it thru. How you get somewhere is just as important as where you end up,,,

Pitch Pocket · 11-29-2002, 10:02 AM

It's the same as zipperlip river. It would be foolish to publish exact locations of every hole you have caught fish in. I'd be upset if my little pinnacle was discovered and decimated by the charter boys too.

If you trust someone enough to give them the coordinates to your honey hole, then do it privately. The large banks are already posted on this and other websites along with the ocean charts. If you're looking for those and can't find them with the info already posted here, you probably shouldn't be out there anyway.

Uglygreen · 11-29-2002, 03:25 PM

I don't need no stinking GPS coordinates...

I don't go to the fish. The fish, they come to me!

Mojo - Mojo - Mojo - Mojo - Mojo.

Ya all just follow that ugly-********-green boat out there on the big blue. Where my boat is - thats where the feesh are.

UG

Mark Mc · 11-29-2002, 06:27 PM

Hiya WP,

Yea I agree with your idea:

"A gentle evening sipping scotch and sharing yarns seems like a lovely way to pass the time!"

Despite my last story, I'm still real open about sharing most fish information, and anything & everything related to safety on the water. That being said, feeding me a good single malt certainly speeds up the sharing process! I hope we have a chance sometime.

WP · 11-29-2002, 11:02 PM

Good thought Bumper Crome!

Mojo · 11-30-2002, 07:22 AM

UG,
You calling me? :grin:

I think there needs to be some common sense used here. Would you go out in the fog using someone elses GPS plots? I wouldn't. They might be perfectly legit on their plastic jesus, but if they have it set to the wrong datum, or otherwise hosed up that could be fatal.

I think a database of general fishing spots(and those plundered from charters J/K) is a great idea. Keep the Honey Holes to yourselves, amd pass them on to your friends if you want.