Ice

WP · 11-12-2002, 08:45 AM

I have been wondering if there are any fish buyers that will sell ice for sport boats (flake ice)? Buying 200# of ice from a market is a BIG cost! Is there any cheaper way to have enough ice aboard for a tuna trip? I would be interested in other's ways for buying large (for sport fishing) quantities of ice, inexpensively.
Might as well get my information now...before TUNA time! [img]graemlins/applause.gif[/img] [img]graemlins/applause.gif[/img]

WP

11-12-2002, 09:13 AM

In Ketchikan we got ice from Silver Lining Seafoods for free.

Deepslayer · 11-12-2002, 09:41 AM

There you go WP. We can drive up to Ketchikan and do our fishing! then drive back with a truck load of ice and fish! :shocked: :grin:

11-12-2002, 10:17 AM

The road doesn't go there. :shocked:

fish assassin · 11-12-2002, 12:15 PM

Of course, you could always get the $20 TUNA permit
and commercial fish on-and-off for the local fish
buyer ... then your ice would be FREE!!! The guy down
at Depoe Bay (Ocean Brite Seafoods) fills my two 150
quart coolers up every Friday evening and then re-fills
them every day I fish. I do buy-backs on several of
the fish when I have good days and just don't tell
him about the fish I have when I'm sport fishing ...
Kinda like, "opps, sorry Frank, the fish just weren't
biting today. Maybe next trip".

Of course, once you've developed a relationship with
the fish buyer, they will usually help out where they
can and give you extra ice if they have it on hand.

At Pacific City (home of the dory fleet) there is one
fish buyer that will sell you a tote of ice for $20.
That would be four or five 150 quart coolers
full! You usually need to be available the evening
before you go fishing, however, because most fish are
delivered in the late afternoon, early evening hours
and the fish buyers don't have any workers around in
the early morning ...

Just some kinda random thoughts about ice ...

-assAssin-

Tinman · 11-12-2002, 12:53 PM

Maybe you don't need ice at all. Consider the San Diego sportfishing fleet, consisting of over 50 open-party and charter boats, all in the 60 to 120 foot range. During albacore season, they go out daily for 24 hours trips. The boats depart at midnight, all hands sleep aboard, and wake up on the fishing grounds. Fishing continues from dawn until around 2:00 p.m, then the boats head in, arriving back at the dock around 10:00 pm.

No ice. The albacore are kept in wet gunnysacks. This has been going on for 80 years, and the albacore stay plenty fresh. Twenty years ago in fact, the fish canneries met fishermen at the dock, and exchanged whole tuna for a lesser amount of canned tuna.

Ice just isn't customary or necessary down south.

Threemuch · 11-12-2002, 01:33 PM

I have had gunny sack party boat tuna, and it's not as good as the stuff that gets ice bathed. It's fine for canning though. My fish for the grill will always get iced.
KB

pkg40 · 11-12-2002, 03:32 PM

Ice is required if you want top quality fish. That goes for bottom fish and Salmon, but doubly so for tuna. The Big ones literally cook themselves without it. As for how to get it, you can almost always get some for free from fish buyers if you aren't too greedy. Fill up those big coolers. Problem is nobody is going to go out of their way to make it available to you. Need to find a fish processor that is using ice when you need to get it. I had a reliable source for a couple of years, but they closed their ice house and I have had to hoof it around every time since. If you are in PDX, you can buy flake ice from koldkist for 5.00/40 lb bag. They are even open on the weekends. Even a Tuna Landin Permit is no garantee. A small boat just isn't going to have enough fish to sell to entice a buyer to come open up shop to give you ice and or buy your fish. You will need to work around their schedule or find a small buyer. If you do find someone to give you ice, don't abuse it. I want them to be happy if I come by ;&gt

Mark Mc · 11-12-2002, 04:40 PM

Hi Tinman, I'd like to politely disagree with you.

"No ice. The albacore are kept in wet gunnysacks. This has been going on for 80 years, and the albacore stay plenty fresh. "

No, they do not stay fresh. It is common knowledge that albacore spoil without ice, especially baking in the SoCal sunshine. Publications have been available for at least 5 years from California Sea Grant, explaining in great detail what happens if albacore are not properly handled & chilled.

"Ice just isn't customary or necessary down south. "

No again. Internet chat boards from SoCal (Allcoast, Charkbait) have had countless conversations for several years about which boats to go on (because they handle & ice fish properly) and which ones to avoid (because they don't). This includes 24 hr boats.

You will also see threads from people who have indeed gotten sick, with their whole family, from scombroid poisoning because of improperly handled tuna.

There is a reason that fish buyers check core temperature of tuna before agreeing to buy them: in addition to wanting a quality product that tastes good, they don't want their customers getting sick.

Regards.........Mark

fishwhenican · 11-12-2002, 05:54 PM

GEEZ maybe I went about it all wrong! I bought an extra freezer (needed more room for crab and fish bait). Filled it with bait and ice jugs. need crushed ice? My aluminum fish club bat does a pretty good job on the ice jug, they even almost stay together untill the ice is crushed. I even get some stress relief that way yelling HUAHAA or TUNA!! as I crush the ice. Then shift the ice to a large plastic bag and frezze some more jugs. WHACK! TUNA! yeaaaaa!

Miss B Haven · 11-12-2002, 06:11 PM

fishwhenican - I knew there was a reason I shoulda bought that 70 cu ft chest freezer that was advertised here ($50). I just couldn't see keeping any more fish, crab etc. Man - I could make ice and sell it to all these Tunaholics to pay for fuel. :grin:
PS - A ball peen hammer works great for busting up that ice. You get a lot of big chunks and a lot of small shards too. A good mix for packing around for quick cool and then lasting a while. Don't tell my wife why all those milk jugs keep disappearing out of the freezer though! The wax half gallon size stack real nice too!

pkg40 · 11-12-2002, 09:23 PM

MIZB

I can't drink enough milk to keep myself in ice jugs during tuna season.

;&gt

Miss B Haven · 11-12-2002, 11:07 PM

Keta- Miss B would go there!

Hmm... there I go teasing myself again! Arrgggg - it's really winter, THE BOATS HOME! :depressed:

By the way- I believe anyone whos sells significant quantities of fresh bait could get you a deal on bulk ice (like Tackle Time in Warrenton). Any fish processing plant/commercial offload dock would have ice. It's not there business to sell ice to sportfishers, but a few nice words and a few extra bucks are hardley ever turned down at the coast. :grin:

[ 11-12-2002, 12:10 PM: Message edited by: Miss B Haven ]

Threemuch · 11-12-2002, 11:16 PM

I buy my ice at a seafood place, shaved, 2 72 quart coolers for 5 bucks. I aint telling which one, because if everyone goes there, they will probably stop.

Most fish processing places will grind a 400 pound block into your boat for $20-$30. Comes right out a hose. Problem is you need to be in the water to get it, and they usually arent open at o dark thirty.

Deepslayer · 11-13-2002, 08:35 AM

pkg40, I've got ten kids! They go through at least two gallons a day! I've always got plenty of empty gallon containers. :grin:

WP · 11-13-2002, 09:21 AM

ED,
How is your freezer space? This may be a new business opportunity!
WP :grin:

:grin:

Mark Mc · 11-13-2002, 09:08 PM

I just stumbled onto this post from the Allcoast (So Cal) chat board, about someone's trip on a boat called the Indian, where the fish just went into gunny sacks with no ice. No, I did not make this up. Enjoy! >>>>>>>>>>>>&g t;>>>>>>>

"I had all my Albies filleted. I only live 30 minuted from the docks and when I got home I immediately removed all my fillets from their bags and placed them in Tupperware containers with lids to be placed BACK ON ICE...... Looks like most of the fish is destined for the canner---as much of the fillets are pretty mushy. Maybe because they were out on the decks most of the night for the cleaning process and being THROWN AROUND---(I guess they think they need tenderizing?)

I'm adding this commentary today 9-13-02:

As I stated earlier, the product was pretty mushy and I did can most of it----except for the bluefin I reserved for the grill and some of the better looking loins of albie for the smoker.....

Well guess what-----the smoked stuff we have eaten gave us the "runs." The smoked stuff I've given out to friends, gave them the "runs." (I initially thought I screwed up smoking somehow, even tho I have been smoking my own for 30 years) But, after last night thawing out some of the bluefin and blackening it for dinner with a little wasabe----gave us the "*****" again......

In as much as the canning process cooks the product at 10psi for 100 minutes, I guess if that can kill off botulism---it must have killed the "Indian Bacteria" as well, cause no "adverse symptoms" from it YET...

Conclusion: The Indian provided me with "grade A" spoiled fish...

Deepslayer · 11-13-2002, 11:39 PM

DAVE I ahve got two chest freezers in the basement. One is full of fish and gallon jugs, the other is full of the usual stuff! :smile:

Orca · 11-16-2002, 08:15 AM

WP,

There used to be an ice place in Corvallis called Dean's Ice. I think they have changed names. If you dropped by their shop in the afternoon, they used to give you bulk ice at a reasonable rate. Next time I'm in Corvallis, I will stop by and see if they will sell some bulk and get a price. They are a little south of Izzy's on 9th street.

WP · 11-16-2002, 02:39 PM

Thanks Orca!
WP

wak'm&stak'm · 11-16-2002, 04:10 PM

Hmmmm...I wondered when the ice subject was coming up....I have given some thought to this and I am just waiting till January to buy my own ice machine.....

I am still a little undecided as to which size...but it will be either a 600 pound or 1200 storage cap.

My other thought is, I live close enough that I can supply, even deliver to other ifshers when the time comes around if it helps.

[ 11-16-2002, 05:11 PM: Message edited by: wak'm&stak'm ]

Marty · 11-18-2002, 08:49 AM

Wak em

Let me be the first in line for any of that ice!!!! Just give me the details and where to go and how much. Are you going to purchase a shaved ice machine or cubes???

Thanks

Marty

Pilar · 11-18-2002, 01:50 PM

'Puffin' and the boys bought a 400# cube machine this last summer. They set it up in an enclosed basement with no ventilation. It heats up the basement. Also the bin is not insulated and the stuff melts as you make it.

This is enough to tend and supply one boat. If you have the doors open to the basement it makes ice twice as fast. Maybe 200# a day but never the rated 400# a day. They bag it and fill the chest freezer. I doubt the effort and time pays for the ice. A much bigger machine is needed to keep the boats at fish camp supplied.

I would locate the unit outside to ensure adequate heat dissipation and production.

Tackle Time Bait and Charters · 11-18-2002, 07:29 PM

We have an 800lb. cuber that is water cooled.The cooling water is a dead loss, so think about that if you are on a meter. The air cooled makers are cheaper to run, but do not produce as well.
We are looking at a 1-2 ton flaker or chipper for next season. We put ice on all 3 boats [Slo-Jo, Elijah,& the Lady Dee] everyday so it takes a lot of ice, sure keeps the catch premo but expensive.
Also have 30+ lb. bags available for sale next season at 4:30a.m. Send an e-mail if interested.
Also have a couple of ice maker storage bins for trading stock if anyone is interested.
Thanks Gene

wak'm&stak'm · 11-18-2002, 09:00 PM

I have the room and the ventilation, thanks for the insight.

I think it would be easy to keep several boats in ice, heck I can't use a eighth of what it would produce.

Hey...if we keep going forward....in a few years maybe we will have the Ifish ice house and resort. (ifish moorage, ifish boat works, ifish bed and breakfast, ifish sushi bar and grill)
where will it ever end.........cheers

WP · 11-19-2002, 12:26 AM

Wak,
I am there for the ice! I would be happy to come to an arrangement for this coming year! I plan to spend a great deal of time chasing the wiley albacore and that means a bunch of ice. Just can't afford the $.99 a bag from the convenience store! Need that money for clones and gas and "stuff"! Sign me up for the ice adventure.

:grin: :grin: :grin: WP

wak'm&stak'm · 11-19-2002, 04:43 AM

You got it......gee I hope winter goes fast....kinda like wishing your life away....eek

Miss B Haven · 11-19-2002, 07:56 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by wak'm&stak'm:

Hey...if we keep going forward....in a few years maybe we will have the Ifish ice house and resort. (ifish moorage, ifish boat works, ifish bed and breakfast, ifish sushi bar and grill)
where will it ever end.........cheers

<font size="2" face="verdana,arial,helv">Wak - I thought this is what Warrenton is already! :whazzup:

Gene - I see you put TUNA on your web page for next years schedule. Got those poles ready for Lady Dee? :smile:
ONLY 7 1/2 MONTHS LEFT TILL JULY! :grin:

Orca · 11-19-2002, 08:57 AM

WP,

Dean's Ice is still there, but they have no special deal. A 40 lb bag of cubes is $6. I bought 20 lbers at Safeway for $2.50 last year.

Where do the rest of you buy your 200+ lbs for Tuna fishing?

11-19-2002, 09:05 AM

I got ice at the W. Salem Safeway on the way over.

Pilar · 11-19-2002, 10:59 AM

Wak, the logical conclusion to your progression is .... Carkington Station.

A salvaged mothball Navy transport ship. You know with a floodable well deck. You could have a casino, brothel, Marina, boat repairs, gas station, fish processing facilities, helipad, Motel, restaurant ..... etc, etc, etc,

Just think .. you could blaze offshore and refuel 30 miles offshore. Or moor your boat and spend the night at sea. Then be on the fish at crack of dawn. It would mean never running out of ice, fuel or room for Tuna.

Muh ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha!

[ 11-19-2002, 12:00 PM: Message edited by: Pilar ]

fish assassin · 11-19-2002, 12:09 PM

:tongue: :tongue: :grin:

Slow Roll · 11-19-2002, 12:22 PM

Pilar,
Need an Architect on that one? Never done a brothel before, but I bet I could design the perfect one. Delightfully tacky yet refined, no wait, somebody already uses that one. [img]graemlins/eek13.gif[/img]

Ah well, I just design it, someone else can name it.

Although in my mind all that comes to mind is one of those floating cities from Waterworld. Definetly not an attractive idea there.

Paul B.

Miss B Haven · 11-19-2002, 01:28 PM

It's gunna be a looooong winter.

Here it is not even Turkey day yet and a whole thread worried about where to get ice next July. :whazzup:
And then there's Wak and Pilar dreamin' up some business plans to keep them occupied all winter (I'm in). You guys are scary, sure glad I don't have your problems. :grin:
PS - Now it's only 7 31/64ths months till July!

otter · 11-19-2002, 06:53 PM

Would this work? :grin:

wak'm&stak'm · 11-19-2002, 08:03 PM

I think you are on to something Jon....hmmm...

I started getting ice at the BP station in Agate Beach, they suggested I just get it from the ice maker. So I did and then they weren't sure what to charge. When they said 5 dollars I had to hide the smile. (They make a fortune from my gas purchases)
After that I would just load up and every new employee would ask what I get charged and I told them 10 bucks.

I am afraid next year they can't keep up, thus....new ice machine.

Marty · 11-19-2002, 08:55 PM

I called Trident Seafoods in Newport (541 265-7279) and they said their price on shaved ice was $50.00 per ton OR any part there of. I asked if I could get 500 lbs. and they said $15.00 bucks. They close at 4:30 in the afternoons, open at 8:00 and GENERALLY have enough ice for all their clients. Their commercial accounts come first, BUT they would sell to non commercial customers. They can squirt it in the boat OR you can shovel it in your ice chests.

Hope this helps

Marty

11-19-2002, 11:11 PM

Pilar,
Put me in for a few shares.

WP · 11-22-2002, 02:48 PM

John,
July? I was thinkin' maybe of lookin' in June when I get back from Mexico! Maybe they will be early this year :smile: )
WP

Wernergonefishin · 11-22-2002, 05:48 PM

What about an RSW Raw Saltwater cooled in a small water tight fish hold . When I worked in Alaska I seen two 28ft hand trollers that had built them using old freezer motors and welded tubes around the inside of there holds.And ran them off little honda generaters.
They would pump full of salt water add couple lbs of rock salt and cool with system. Fish buyers would pay 5cents more a lb for there fish becuase it was less damaging to the product.

11-22-2002, 07:06 PM

If you do this don't use metal pipe, the metal stains the tuna meat and gives it a metalic flavor.
See metal stain about half way down.

Proper Care of Tuna

[ 11-22-2002, 08:55 PM: Message edited by: Keta ]

OceanBlue · 11-25-2002, 07:23 AM

Okay, Pilar. As I've said before, you really ought to look into making Carkington Station a reality...

Just make sure you have provisions for entertaining WOMEN as well!

Muhaaaaaaa!

Pilar · 11-25-2002, 07:44 AM

Hey Keta, great link, thanks.

I printed it out for future reference. Would a 12v refrigeration system work in a portable (plastic tote) brine tank? Most of the ice we have to carry is used for the initial slushing and chilling. Something to think about on a rainy day.

Gobbaworms · 11-25-2002, 08:34 PM

How's this using stainless steel:

It's a small tube inside a large tube. The small ends can be hooked to the compressor. There are two openings in the big tube. Hook a bilge pump to one of the big ends and put in the holding tank, the water is cooled by the small tube in the middle, and discharged back into the holding tank. If you are using a 12v fridge, use the box as a storage area for this coil. Use garden hose to and from the tank to the fridge.

Maybe?

11-25-2002, 08:49 PM

I think that I'd use ABS or PVC plastic tubing and save the SS for my still :smile:

Pilar,
What about an automotive air conditioning compressor on the main engine? Use this to chill antifreze/water and then run this through a plastic heat exchanger. Quick disconects to your tote and you are in buisness.

When it isn't needed you can de-energize the clutch and not run the compressor.

:grin: Do YOU know anyone that could design the controls for this kind of system? :grin:

Pilar · 11-26-2002, 07:37 AM

Keta, you're a genius!

What you are suggesting could be easily done. There has to be a shoebox Nova with A/C on it somewhere in a junkyard. The heat exchanger shown by Gobbaworms would be a good approach as well. I thought at first about a refrigerated coil in the cooling tank. The problem with that is the hoses with the refrigerant would have to be pretty long and would probably get hammered before long.

But if you used a heat exchanger and kept the refrigerant loop short and fixed ..... the chilled water hoses could go wherever needed. Not only that but plastic hose is cheap and easily replaced. Just pump the water from the carking tank through the cooler and back to the tank. What would the blood in the water do to the heat exchanger?

Ahhhhh the possibilities ........

Keta the controls would be easy ... on/off and let it run wide open when on.

Can you say Sashimi?

Miss B Haven · 11-26-2002, 08:08 AM

One of you is going to have to change your Moniker to Jack (Daniels)! Are you guys planning on fishing or making white lightnin? :whazzup:
If you know where to get Blue Aguave (SP?), I'm in! :grin:

pkg40 · 11-26-2002, 08:49 AM

Ebay Local Ice Machine if anyone is interested

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...tem=1920922692

11-26-2002, 09:30 AM

Pilar,
I'd prefer to have a thermostat controlling the compressor so that the chill tank stayed above 34 degrees. This might not be a problem with an un-insulated tote.

A flush with clean water should take care of blood build up in the heat exchanger too.

MB,

Why not, I'm a missn teeth and play the banjo :shocked:

[ 11-26-2002, 10:34 AM: Message edited by: Keta ]

Deepslayer · 11-26-2002, 12:43 PM

pkg40, although plastic is a great insulator, increasing the surface area and decreasing the thickness will allow it to be used as a heat exchanger. That is why they have plastic solar heaters and are putting plastic radiators in cars. Titanium systems are pretty pricey for us poor recreational fishermen. :shocked: I am sure that the cooling system necessary to initially drop the temperature of the water would be substantial, but the system necessary to maintain the delta T would not necessarily be as large. Maybe using ice to achieve the initial drop and then using the low budget cooler to maintain the temperature would be acceptable. I am not sure what the cold plates are you referenced?
Most of this post is in fun, but I have seen plenty of Rube Goldberg systems function quite adequately. :smile:

11-26-2002, 12:51 PM

My thinking was to fill the tank with slush ice and then maintain the temp. with the chiller.
I'd rather have an insulated fish box than a tote too.

Miss B Haven · 11-26-2002, 01:04 PM

Not to squash this creative thread, but if we're talking about keepin' a few fish in REALLY nice shape to eat fresh, vacuum pack or even make Sushi - a little ice (is ten bags a little?) is very addequate. If we're talking about a whole lot of fish then odds are it's going in a canner. You really think it's necessary to go to all that trouble for canned Tuna? I know there will be some disagreement but lets discuss! Maybe some samples on the 6th? :grin:
Other than not having to buy the ice I'm not seeing much advantage here. If you've got room for fish, you've got room for ice.
We're not talking overnight or 3 day trips here right? That would be different in my and yes - a lot of ice or onboard cooling required.
Sides - all this talk about making ice and being dependant on mechanical devices to keep your fish makes me think of a movie I really should not like or watch at all, but can't resist! :shocked: Almost as good as Jaws!

Hmmm... How about we discuss doing an overnighter next year! That's my next goal in life! :grin:

11-26-2002, 01:09 PM

Let's fill the basement of Miss B with ice :shocked: and sell it all season.

Over nighter like SQUID jiging!

[ 11-26-2002, 02:11 PM: Message edited by: Keta ]

OceanBlue · 11-26-2002, 01:15 PM

Miss B - How was that smoked tuna? Boy, I sure wish we had frozen more fillets to throw in the smoker. It freezes okay if the fillets are nice and firm. If not, it's mush not fit for the canner.

Miss B Haven · 11-26-2002, 01:24 PM

You'll get to try some soon. I think I oversalted just a little. I was waiting for that brine to form, but it never did- gave it an hour. Should have stuck to the 30 minutes. [img]graemlins/stupid.gif[/img]
Might have smoked a little long, a lttle dryer than I think it could be. (6 hrs - man it's faster than Salmon), but it's still great! :grin:
How long does smoked Tuna keep in the fridge? I figure two weeks is safe on Salmon. This question assumes of course that any of you have ever had it last long enough to put away at all. :whazzup:
I should have another batch or two done this weekend. I'll sneek some into the 4th or the 6th for ya. You can critique for me!
:grin:

Pilar · 11-26-2002, 01:42 PM

Hey Mel, watch that longer than 30 minutes in the rock salt. It just gets way too salty. It usually does not 'brine'. The fish gets firm and the rock salt wet, but that's about it.

Don't forget to rinse really thorough too.

OceanBlue · 11-26-2002, 01:48 PM

Mel - you just made it to my list of very good friends!

My tummy's all a grumble now. What a tease!

How long the tuna will last depends on how much moisture is in it. I think the best way to keep it for longer periods in the fridge is to vac-pack it. Ziplocs create too much condensation. John and I lost a good batch that way :depressed:

pkg40 · 11-26-2002, 11:44 PM

You guys should spend a little time looking at Aquarium cooler designs to get a feel for the feasibility of your heat exchangers. A couple of key points:

1. Plastic is a great insulator and won't be usable fo heat echanger surface.

2. Saltwater is very corrosive. The Copper pipe shown by gobbawoims would be an excellent heat exchange medium, but will wear out fast (hours? days? weeks?). Saltwater aquariums that need to run 24 by 7 have heat exchangers made of titanium.

3. The size and weight of a chiller that can maintain 20 degree differential on 80 gallons is pretty substantial. This is without dumping hot tuna in every 5 minutes.

My gut feeling is that for the weight and expense, you would be better off installing cold plates in your fish boxes and using traditional iced brine to get the initial heat out of the fish.

8knots · 11-27-2002, 04:50 PM

Mel, I am on the same wavelength regarding an overnight tuna trip. I have been thinking about this for some time. Since I have a slow boat I was thinking this........monitor weather for really good stretch where we have some confidence in several days of flat water. I have been thinking of going over the CR bar about 9:00 in the evening and running our 60 miles or so ( the explosives dump off the CR where I nailed them two years ago). Hang out and sleep ( with someone always on watch) until first light and do a slow troll back in. It is just a thought, but something I would really like to try. Or, maybe head out and fish the afternoon into the evening, sleep and then troll in. Only way to really enjoy this is to have flat seas in order to enjoy the evening drifting. Fun to think about!

OceanBlue · 12-02-2002, 06:50 AM

8knots,

why go 60 miles out? We were slaughtering them at 25-30 all summer. Besides, the swordfish come in closer to shore to feed at night. Wouldn't you rather motor out at night, fish for swords, then limit on albies at first light and be home in time to enjoy some of that catch fresh off the grill? :grin:

Just my $.02