Albacore Tuna Landing Licence - $20?

[Uglygreen]

Forget recreational TUNA fishing - Lets go commercial....

I was perusing the ORS chapters relating to commercial fishing laws, and found the following:

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ORS 508.300 Albacore tuna landing license in lieu of other licenses. Notwithstanding any other provision of this chapter, the only license required for landing albacore tuna from the waters of the Pacific Ocean at any point in this state is an albacore tuna landing license. [1973 c.768 §17]

ORS 508.285 License fees. (1) The fee for each license required by this chapter is as follows:

(a) Albacore tuna landing license, $20.

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I read the rest of all of the chapters (506-513) relating to commercial fishing laws, and found no gear restrictions, chum or live bait restrictions, or catch limits for tuna. You do not need the regular commercial boat licence or personal commercial fishing licence (as described in ORS 508.035), the albicore landing licence is in lieu of those licences.

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Personal use?

ORS 508.240 Acts by commercial fishing licensee prohibited. It is unlawful for any person licensed to take food fish for commercial purposes, as required under ORS 508.035, to:

(1) Keep any food fish the person takes under such license for personal use; or

(2) Sell any food fish the person takes under such license to other than a wholesaler, canner, fish bait dealer or buyer licensed as required under ORS 508.035. [1965 c.570 §77a; 1971 c.540 §6]

I believe that the important part of this section is the section that reads "It is unlawful for any person licensed to take food fish for commercial purposes, as required under ORS 508.035 , to:" Reading this, I don't think prohabition on personal use applies, as once again the the albacore tuna landing licence is in lieu of the other licences described in ORS 508.035, and you are not required to be licenced under ORS 508.035 to land albacore tuna.

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Payment of fees?

ORS 508.505 Additional fees based on value of fish at time of landing;

(1) Additional fees shall be collected by the State Fish and Wildlife Director in the amount prescribed by this section, except as provided in ORS 508.510. Every person operating within the state as a canner, buyer, bait dealer or wholesaler of any food fish or shellfish shall pay, in addition to all other licenses or fees provided by law, a fee equal to the value of the food fish at the point of landing multiplied by the following rates:

(a) All salmon and steelhead, 3.15 percent.

(b) All other food fish and shellfish, 1.09 percent

The "canner, buyer, bait dealer or wholesaler of any food fish or shellfish" is responsible for payment of fees. If the fish are not sold, I believe there are no catch fees.

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This is just a theory based on my reading of these chapters of the Oregon Revised Statutes. But my idea is that with the "Albacore Tuna Landing Licence", you basically have an insurance policy against those silly OSP guys trying to give you a ticket. For twenty bucks you can throw out the whole recreational fishing rulebook and associated restrictions, and fish like we all want to. Plus, you can sell your catch if you want to. Legally instead of under the table. Also, you can clean or dress your fish at sea.

ORS 508.505 (2) "Dressed" includes but is not limited to beheaded, gutted, filleted, loined or shucked.

This all sounds pretty good to me... can any of you poke any holes in my theory??

Here is the link to the ORS chapters 506-513 the "Commercial Fishing Laws"

http://www.leg.state.or.us/ors/orschs-9.html

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UG

[Miss B Haven]

Just figured that out huh UG? Lets here from some of the guys who have these on the board. Opinions, comments? :smile:

We can pay for the ice, now how about coming up with gas money.

[Deepslayer]

I think fish ASSasin can answer most of the questions on this topic. I think this is the kind of license he gets for fishing albacore.

[Uglygreen]

I never heard it mentioned before. Was there a previous thread regarding this?

UG

[ 10-27-2002, 09:32 PM: Message edited by: Uglygreen ]

[Chum King]

A commercial license, whether it is the albacore or regular commercial license, would allow you to run multiple lines, chum, and no bag limit would be in effect, but all of the fish from your trip would have to be sold to a commercial fish dealer. If you had the albacore license, you are not be allowed to do any type of recreational fishing especially for non-albacore species during the trip. And if per chance you did run into "bill" he'd have to go back over the side.

The license would not allow you to retain any albacore for personal use. However, you can do what is called a "buy back" from most fish dealers where you would pay the tax on the landed fish and then you could take them for personal use. You would want to make sure that you had a commercial fish plant that was willing to even handle your fish for a buyback. The fish plants are generally dealing in volume when it comes to albacore, and in many cases will not buy fish from boats that are not selling to them from other fisheries.

One other set of pitfalls is although this might be all you would need from a state licensing issue. There are federal requirements for commercial fishing. If you are commercial fishing there are US Coast Guard requirements that you would have to meet. I don't know all of the requirements, but I believe you are mandated to have survival suits, a life raft (if you are over a certain distance from shore), and an EPIRB. You would definitely want to check with the Coast Guard to find out what is required. I believe that commercial albacore fishers are also required to maintain logbooks on activity and catch as well (I believe that is a federal requirement).

UG: I can try and research this some more for you if you'd like, but I don't think it's worth the effort to even go there.

[corrirod]

Hahahaha! LMAO!

I only wish you'd spend half your time trying to change the restrictions rather than find the loopholes.

Knowing UG I'm sure he'll test this in court too.

Good luck UG, I hope you're right.

This line is priceless:

you basically have an insurance policy against those silly OSP guys trying to give you a ticket. For twenty bucks you can throw out the whole recreational fishing rulebook and associated restrictions, and fish like we all want to. Plus, you can sell your catch if you want to. Legally instead of under the table.

<font size="2" face="verdana,arial,helv">Yeah, those silly OSP guys. What are they thinking anyway, trying to do their jobs by enforcing the written law? Kinda like those ODFW fish checker #$@!#@! just doing their jobs too! [img]graemlins/eek13.gif[/img]

Also, how'z the "under the table" fish market been lately? [img]graemlins/idea.gif[/img] Maybe that's what I'll do for my next job!
[img]graemlins/lurk.gif[/img]

[Uglygreen]

First Corrirod, it was trying to find how Chumking read a commercial regulation into a recreational law that led me to this. (I never found the legislative authorization for that anyhow, or the supposed AG's opinion in their searchable database regarding how ORS 506.755 could be interpreted to cover recreational fishing)

Second, Chumking, as I pointed out, ORS 508.240 prohibits personal use only for those required specifically to hold a commercial licence as listed under ORS 508.035. It makes NO mention of those who hold a Albacore Tuna Landing License under ORS 508.300 being prohibited from retaining their catch for personal use. It says "Notwithstanding ANY other provisions of this chapter" Please comment on that.

Third, corrirod, regarding "those silly OSP guys", in my humble opinion they consistantly step way over the line in regard to enforcing fish and game laws.

In many cases they can have a tendancy to make up the law as they go, based on the assumption that us "silly" citizens will never check it out or call their bluff. Most people meekly send in their fine or whatever w/o ever checking if the OSP was right. Ask any OSP officer, they will tell you that many of the published regs are open to interpertation, not based on law, and they (OSP) will nearly always take the hard side of that line, no matter what common sence says. I have little respect for that agency based on that fact alone. I have personally been told by OSP officers that they have "no discresion" regarding weather or not to write a ticket and that it is "unofficial" OSP policy to try to generate as much revenue through fines as possible.

My opinion, I just believe that the state should follow its own the rules as carefully as it requires its citizens to. Unfortunatly, I don't think it happens very often.

UG

[Uglygreen]

And regarding the under the table fish market, I have never sold any "under the table fish" but I know some Ifishers do. I will assume they dont want their names posted.

Also, I have no problem with a little under the table selling, no problem at all.

UG

[Uglygreen]

And if this is doable, I certainly wouldnt mind having the option of paying for some of my gas selling some of my catch. :grin:

UG

[Uglygreen]

Finally, Chumking wrote:

"If you had the albacore license, you are not be allowed to do any type of recreational fishing especially for non-albacore species during the trip. And if per chance you did run into "bill" he'd have to go back over the side."

What is the basis for this? When I used to work commercial boats summers in college we all had recreational licences to mooch/troll for salmon on the way in / out from setting crab pots...

UG

[ 10-27-2002, 11:40 PM: Message edited by: Uglygreen ]

[Chum King]

This will be my last reply of the evening.

UG: The albacore landing license is in lieu of a regular commercial license if all you are doing is commercially fishing albacore. The standard provisions related to commercial fishing still apply. It does not give free reign for personal use of commercially caught albacore.

[Uglygreen]

And you base that on what statute?

UG

[deefly]

Im just a searun cutt fisher, but am I right in wondering if in 10 years the state of Oregon and some ifishers are going to wonder where all the fishees went? (ie tuna) Sounds like this could be just another understaffed, underfunded, shortsighted reg!! Just another one of those sucking thoughts. Ill put it back in the black well! (Im probably all wrong on this though!) [img]graemlins/icon_argue.gif[/img]

[fish assassin]

Deepslayer has the right of it by saying that I have
some insight into the $20/year tuna landing permit ...
I have urged several people that absolutly love to
tuna fish to get one of these licenses so that they
can make a little spare money to help pay for fuel and
other expenses so they can fish more often. I know of
at least one Ifisher who got the license this year and
was selling at the fish dock at Depoe Bay.

Here is what I know about the issue ... The license
costs $20 a year, and can be obtained by calling
ODFW Licensing at (503)872-5275. This permit allows
you to sell sport caught tuna to a registered fish
buyer ONLY. This does not allow you to sell the fish
to citizens at the dock ... or at home for that matter.

If you sell any of your fish, you must sell them *all*.
You are not allowed to keep any for personal use
[/B]However[/B], there is a buy back provision in the
law that allows you to buy the fish back from the
fish buyer at the same cost he is paying you, less
the applicable tax ... and I believe that is a 1%
tax or "tuna commision fee".

I personally do not have one of these permits for my
boats. I have full fledged commercial fishing permits
on *both* my boats (Pacific Mistress and Fish Assassin).
I do this because it gives me a little
more latitude when fishing and gives me *lots* more
days on the ocean.

The downside is that as a licensed commercial boat you
are required to carry a lot more saftey equiptment that
is expensive to buy and expensive to upkeep. As a
sport boat with a tuna landing permit you are essentially
sport fishing and selling "excess catch".

Remember, this is only an Oregon State *landing permit*
and does not make you a commercial boat per say. You
and your boat are still regarded as sport fishermen/
sport fishing boat until you pull up to the dock to
sell your fish.

That's all I know about that! Hope this helps! If
you have questions about this permit I would urge you
to call ODFW at the above listed number!!

-assAssin-

[wak'm&stak'm]

I knew about this lic. as well, and all the time there was talk about 5, 10, 15, fish limits....I was not to worried because I would take this route.

If I needed to I would get a full fledged comm. lic. and do the tuna buy back. I also considered the tax loop holes as well.

I have no trouble sell tuna under the table to help with gas, but we just gave them away this year.

UG.......I am agree with you....and I wonder how many of the folks out there send hours on finding loop holes come tax time.

As long as it stays reasonable (tackle and limits) it is no big deal I figure.

[Uglygreen]

Thanks assAssin... Called the number listed and asked the pertanint questions.

1) You do not need a regular commercial licence or a sport licence with the Albacore Tuna landing Licence. (Tuna only)

2) You do not need EBIRP, Life Rafts, etc... Sport boats are fine, for this permit only. You do need all the regular coast guard stuff (lifejackets, Flares, etc...)

3) You can sport fish for salmon / halibut / etc.. if properly sport licenced and tagged for those species on the same trip, you obviously can only sell the tuna.

4) In regards to tuna, you have to sell all or none of your catch. You cannot sell a portion of your catch and retain a portion of your catch. You can, however, retain all of your catch for personal use if so desired.

5) If you want to sell your catch and take some home as well - you can do the "buyback" as described by fish assAssin. There is generally a small fee assessed on the portion you keep.

6) There are no gear restrictions, or limits etc... If you have the licence, sport rules do not apply on the ocean.

7) This licence was orignally put in place in the 1970's primarly by and for the Dory fleet out of PC, not full fledged commercial fishers, but guys wanting to catch and occasionally sell some TUNA.

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This sounds like it addresses all the concerns voiced by Pilar and others. It sounds like it was made to order for us "sport guys" wanting to catch (and maybe sell) a few tuna. Not a "loophole" but a policy already in place for the all changes you all want to make in the sportfishing regs. Good luck.

I already asked them to send me my application, I'll have one of these licences on my boat for next year.

UG

[ 10-28-2002, 08:57 AM: Message edited by: Uglygreen ]

[Deepslayer]

Thanks fish assAssin. I thought I remembered you mentioning the Albacore License months ago, when the tuna talk was really hot. Can't be too sure now that I am considered a senior citizen at some places, the memory ain't what it used to be! :depressed: I still remember how good your boat looks though!
thanks Uglygreen for calling the ODFW Licensing and asking the pertinent questions! I remember what your boat looks like too! I figured we could come to a meeting of the minds and a happy solution for the Salty Dogs.
Now if I get a boat I can take all summer off from work and just tuna fish! I've got enough kids, so I could rotate a couple or three of them every week, as deck hands. :grin: :grin:

[WP]

Ed,
Let's talk! 2-3 months as "commercials" would allow an additional year before we run out of money! We could split the $20 fee and go down together!
WP

Can we write off our boat, fuel and gear with out risk of an audit :shocked:

[fish assassin]

UG,

That was the guys name ... Norm Whitten. I've talked
to him on several occasions about different licensing
issues. If he can't give you a good answer, *nobody*
can!!

Now, a little history lesson ...

The tuna landing permit was originally devised so that
boats that were fishing tuna from ports in other
states could legally land tuna in Oregon. The reason
this was needed was because *real* tuna boats have
vast range and travel far from home and it is hardly
ever economically feasable for these boats to go back
to thier home ports to off-load fish. It was also
billed as a "saftey at sea" issue by arguing that if
a boat had a full load of fish and was far from home
it had more chance of sinking if the boats captain
could not sell his fish at the nearest port.

It is my understanding (and if somebody else knows
better, please correct me) that this permit action
is a reciprocal one amongst all the West Coast states/
countries from California to Alaska (believe it or not,
they actually have quite a few tuna landings in Alaska!).

The guys fishing out of one small port in Oregon, Pacific
City, asked for an interpretation of this regulation
to allow dories to land tuna at Pacific City. The
State of Oregon did them one better and applied this
rule to *all* ports on the Oregon coast. This ruling
gave sport fishermen the opportunity to land sport
caught fish in Oregon and sell them just like their
"big brothers" in the commercial fleet.

Pretty nifty, HUH??

-assAssin-

Albacore, the *other* white meat.

[Chum King]

UG: After your last post, I contacted Mr. Norm Whitten with ODFW's Portland headquarters. He did remember speaking with someone this morning on this issue, but he had a very different recollection of the answers that he provided to that person. The following came out of my conversation with Mr. Whitten:

1. Mr. Whitten confirmed that the albacore license is a commercial fishing license. He also stated that only albacore could be kept on a trip using that license, and that all fish must be sold to a fish dealer (buybacks are allowed). He also stated that he confirmed this issue with his phone contact this morning several times.
2. Mr. Whitten says that he was not asked about the US Coast Guard fishing vessel safety requirements. He stated that if he had been, he would have deferred the question to the Coast Guard.
3. Mr. Whitten confirmed that a vessel cannot be used for both commercial and sport fishing on the same trip. As this license is a commercial license and not a sport license, and the Oregon regulations state that you cannot both sport and commercial fish on the same trip.
4. Mr. Whitten was not of the opinion that the albacore landing license originated with the Pacific City dory fleet. His recollection was that it was to allow landings from out of state and foreign tuna boats (read Canadian) to the Oregon canneries of that time (we used to have a lot of canneries in Astoria). It was not a license that was created to allow sport anglers to exceed the bag limit or circumvent other existing sport fishing regulations.
The Pacific City fleet of that era included a large number of small trollers that were "serious" commercial fishermen that targetted coho during the summer months. Those fishermen already had the commercial licenses needed to fish albacore.

Oh and yes, I do read the stuff I am posting. It is just obvious that you and I are interpreting the regulations differently.

Pilar got any [img]graemlins/lurk.gif[/img] left? At this point I wish I was on the sidelines too.

[Pilar]

ChumKing and Uglygreen, I am not so much on the sidelines as just totally ignorant of the rules regarding the tuna license.

So I watch you two .. you totally disagree on most points .. and you somehow manage to not let disagreement interfere with a rational discussion. To both of your great credit by the way.

I see that you could use this permit to 'Commercially fish' for tuna, use multiple lines, chum, cark at sea, etc, etc. But by doing so you have to follow more rules. Specifically the ones about either selling the whole catch or using it yourself. In the near future I am going to discuss this issue with a commercial fisher or two that I know and get the practical on how it all works for them.

Bottom line is I would rather be using the success generating methods as a big game sport fisher, with the blessing of the authorities. And that is why I think we need to work on the rules for sport guys.

Keep going with this ... I don't know about the rest of you but it is fascinating to me. So many sea lawyers in one spot ... reminds me of usta-fish on the midwatch. No topic was safe and everyone was right.

[Miss B Haven]

Ok - So I just have one question. Why would anybody want to take a perfectly fine hobby and make into a dang JOB! [img]graemlins/berry.gif[/img] (sorry fish assassin- I know you like your work- not for me though!) :grin:
I'd have to take a hundred Tuna just to break even every trip. Man - that would be just like w...w...w....work (man I hate that word.)

[Uglygreen]

Chumking -

Perhaps I should have been more clear.

I spoke with several people regarding this topic this AM.

In no particular order.

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1) Regarding the USCG regulations: I spoke with the watch supervisor at the Portland USCG base. Chief Petty Officer something or other, I have his name at the office and will post it tomrrow so you can call and check up on our conversation if you wish. Only those vessels required to have a commercial boat licence are required to meet commercial safety equipment standards. You are not required to have a commercial boat licence under federal or state laws or regulations if you have an Albacore Tuna Landing licence. Which was confirmed by Mr. Whitten. You are wrong on this, why do you continue to insist otherwise?

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2) With regards to the history of the licence, I spoke with Terry Clark, longtime resident of the Pacific City Area (Woods) who refered me to Oscar Davis, A longtime (now retired) Pacific City dory fisherman who lives in Beaver, Oregon. He gave me the same basic story as fish assAssin posted.

"The guys fishing out of one small port in Oregon, Pacific City, asked for an interpretation of this regulation to allow dories to land tuna at Pacific City. The State of Oregon did them one better and applied this rule to *all* ports on the Oregon coast. This ruling gave sport fishermen the opportunity to land sport caught fish in Oregon and sell them just like their "big brothers" in the commercial fleet.

Pretty nifty, HUH??"

I have no personal knowledge of this, however, hearing essentially the same story from different sources leads me to belive it is likely true.

At the time I made the post I had no information in regard to the the "foreign" or "long range" tuna boat aspect. Once again, If you feel the need to check up on this conversation, I will email you Mr. Davis's phone number.

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3) You state: "Mr. Whitten confirmed that the albacore license is a commercial fishing license." Not. I confirmed with him that the albacore landing licence was in lieu of a standard commercial fishing licence as the law states. I was very specific with Mr. Whitten on this point, however, you are correct that I confirmed it with him several times.

"He also stated that only albacore could be kept on a trip using that license,"

You got me there.

I think it is pretty darn obvious that only albacore tuna could be landed on a "albacore tuna landing license".

Let me state for the record that I fully understand that salmon, bottomfish, seals, dolphin, whales, seagulls or marine invertrabrates cannot be landed on a albacore tuna landing license...

"and that all fish must be sold to a fish dealer (buybacks are allowed)."

Actually what he told me was that all fish sold must be sold to a licenced fish dealer unless you also hold a "limited fish seller permit", in which case you can sell direct to the public off the dock subject to the provisions of that permit, (notification of time and place of sale, etc...)

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4) You say "Mr. Whitten confirmed that a vessel cannot be used for both commercial and sport fishing on the same trip."

I think you forgot to mention a very important little piece of that. Actually what Mr. Whitten told me was that a vessel cannot be used for commercial and sport fishing for the same species on the same trip. He was very clear that you must sell either all (albacore tuna landing license) or none (sport fishing license) of your catch. If you want so sell some and take some home you must do the buyback previously described, as I previously posted.

"As this license is a commercial license and not a sport license,"

I think we covered that already.

ORS 508.300 Albacore tuna landing license in lieu of other licenses. Notwithstanding any other provision of this chapter, the only license required for landing albacore tuna from the waters of the Pacific Ocean at any point in this state is an albacore tuna landing license. [1973 c.768 §17]

"and the Oregon regulations state that you cannot both sport and commercial fish on the same trip."

And I think we covered that already as well.

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Chumking - Think whatever you want. I could care less, Please don't try to twist what I say just to prove a point. I am fully convinced that the albacore tuna landing license works as advertised, I have recieved emails form several Ifishers following this thread that do the sport/commercial Tuna trip thing and confirm that they have never had any trouble with the fish buyers, OSP, or the Coast Guard.

I also called one of the licenced fish dealers in Astoria and was told they were fully aware of the albacore tuna landing license and bought fish from several local sport/commercial guys on a regular basis. Their fee for the "buyback" was the total of the tax plus $1 per fish for doing the paperwork.

UG

[ 10-28-2002, 06:25 PM: Message edited by: Uglygreen ]

[Chum King]

UG: Thanks for the clarification about the fact that you called several people regarding the various issues. I was afraid that you would take offense at my calling ODFW, you have my apologies for any offense. But since your interpretations of the rules still did not jive with mine, I felt I needed to check into it further. As I stated earlier, Mr. Whitten did not seem to have entirely the same recollection of the conversation. He was quite firm about the fact that you cannot mix sport and commercial fishing on the same trip, and that the "Albacore Landing Permit" is a commercial license. It is in lieu of the standard commercial boat and individual commercial fish licenses, but it is still a type of commercial fishing license.

As for the USCG regulations, please understand that I am not insisting that they apply to a boat that is operating on a trip under the guidelines of the "Albacore Landing Permit". My point, was that ODFW was not the source to get that information. As you pointed out in your last posting that you also contacted the USCG. And no, I am not interested in trying to verify your call to the USCG. For anyone who is interested, USCG has a pamphlet on line regarding commercial fishing vessel safety requirements, and UG I am not drawing any conclusions about whether it applies in this case: http://www.uscg.mil/hq/g-m/cfvs/images/pamphlet.pdf

As for the Pacific City reinterpretation of the rules regarding the "Albacore Landing Permit". Since that interpretation does not appear in either statute or administrative law, it is difficult to see how it would hold water. I am sure that the "Albacore Landing Permit" can be used by a sport boat to commercially fish for albacore and sell albacore, but from that point on we differ on the interpretation and application of the license.

UG I can't apologize for challenging your conclusions and interpretations since we still disagree. However, I do apologize for any ill feelings I may have caused. I am not trying to twist your words any more than it appears that you are trying to twist mine. You and I are obviously not going to come to agreement on this issue. Essentially what we say doesn't matter anyway. My primary concern is that I do not want to see someone get cited by OSP based on the "hot tip" they got here.

So with that in mind, my parting recommendation is that anyone interested in pursuing the "Albacore Tuna Landing License" should do their own research by contacting ODFW and USCG to get the clear scoop on what is allowed, what the limitations are, and what (if any) special requirements apply.

I think I need to get back to duck hunting.

[Chum King]

UG in response to your question: "The 2002 Synopsis OregonCommercial Fishing Regulations" page 6:
"Commercial harvesters may use their boats for sport fishing as long as they decide to do so before they go out, use only sport gear, and all passengers and crew stay within sport bag and size limits."

Pages 7-8: "Albacore Tuna Landing License, Fee $20. May be obtained in lieu of commercial fishing and and boat licenses when landing only albacore tuna. Application for this license may be made and the fee paid at the time of landing, on the ODFW license application form. This license allows unlimited landings of albacore tuna by the vessel during the calendar year of issue."
The albacore landing license is still a commercial fishing license. The only exception that it provides is to exempt the boat and individual commercial fishing license requirements.

Who did you talk to with ODFW that gave you your information? It seems that what you have heard is in direct contradiction to other existing laws i.e. the albacore license would not allow you to sport and commercial fish on the same trip, etc. Also ODFW could not have answered the questions about the safety requirements from the USCG.

You might want to keep in mind that the Oregon Revised Statutes are just one part of the regulations. The Oregon Administrative Rules which are those that are developed through the Oregon Fish and Wildlife Commission also apply. A couple of key OARs related to this issue include the following:

635-006-0015

Personal Use Fishing with Commercial Fishing Gear Prohibited

In accordance with ORS 508.240, it is unlawful to retain any species of food fish for personal use taken while fishing under a commercial fishing license. In addition, except as the Commission by rule may provide otherwise, it is unlawful to use commercial fishing gear to take any species of food fish for personal use.

635-006-0001

Definitions

For the purposes of OAR 635-006-0001 through 635-006-0235:

(1) "Commercial fishing license" means those things required by ORS 508.235 and, for purposes of the Limited Fish Seller Permit, includes an Albacore Tuna Landing License.

635-011-0100

General Rule

It is unlawful to take any fish, shellfish, or marine invertebrates for personal use except as provided in these rules which include and incorporate the 2002 Sport Fishing Regulations as posted on www.dfw.state.or.us by reference.

[Pilar]

[img]graemlins/lurk.gif[/img] [img]graemlins/lurk.gif[/img]

[fish assassin]

Originally posted by Keta:
Can we write off our boat, fuel and gear with out risk of an audit :shocked:

<font size="2" face="verdana,arial,helv">I don't think so, Vern!!

That's one of the main reasons to buy a commercial
boat license ($200) and a commercial personal license
($50) and as many "crew member licenses" as needed to
fill out the compliment of your fishing trip ($85/each).
You can then write off your boat, equiptment, fuel,
morage, fuel to and from your place of residence to
your place of fishing, etc.

Also a little known fact ... Commercial fishing falls
under the rules and regs of an agricultural business
for tax purposes. What this means is that you don't
*ever* have to show a profit as long as you are showing
"effort" to make money fishing. Effort in this case
can be proved by having at least a couple of sales of
fish a year.

The folks that get in trouble are the "old time fisher-
men" that *used* to commercial fish, but really no
longer do. They just keep writing things like boat
expenses (to go sport fishing), second vehicles (to
pull the boat with) and sometimes even second residences
(a place to stay when they are fishing). The feds will
sooner or later realize that these guys are still
writing things off without any fishing effort at all
and will be declared as a "hobbiest" commercial
fisherman. The government can then go back as far
as 20 years and disallow tax writeoffs for that period.

Of course, none of this applies to the $20 landing
permit ... only if you license yourself, boat and
crew.

-assAssin-

Albacore, the *other* white meat!

[Uglygreen]

Chumking - do you even read the stuff you post?

Everything you put up agrees with my point on this.

I cant tell what point you are trying to get across.

635-006-0015

Personal Use Fishing with Commercial Fishing Gear Prohibited

In accordance with ORS 508.240, it is unlawful to retain any species of food fish for personal use taken while fishing under a commercial fishing license . In addition, except as the Commission by rule may provide otherwise, it is unlawful to use commercial fishing gear to take any species of food fish for personal use.

635-006-0001

Definitions

For the purposes of OAR 635-006-0001 through 635-006-0235:

(1) " Commercial fishing license " means those things required by ORS 508.235 and, for purposes of the Limited Fish Seller Permit , includes an Albacore Tuna Landing License.

ORS 508.235 Commercial fishing license. (1) A commercial fishing license must be obtained by each individual who, for commercial purposes:

(a) Takes or assists in the taking of any food fish from the waters or land of this state;

(b) Operates or assists in the operation of any boat or fishing gear for the taking of food fish in the waters of this state; or

(c) Lands food fish from the waters of the Pacific Ocean at any point in this state.

508.300 Albacore tuna landing license in lieu of other licenses. Notwithstanding any other provision of this chapter , the only license required for landing albacore tuna from the waters of the Pacific Ocean at any point in this state is an albacore tuna landing license. [1973 c.768 §17]

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I dont understand why you keep insisting that a albacore tuna landing licence is a commercial licence when clearly it is not, and all the prohabitions relating to commercial fishing licences apply to the albacore licence when clearly they do not.

The statute law and administrative rule are very clear that the albacore landing licence is only considered a commercial licence for the purposes of the Limited Fish Seller Permit, which only applies to selling fish from your boat directly to Jonh Q. Public.

You say: "The albacore landing license is still a commercial fishing license. The only exception that it provides is to exempt the boat and individual commercial fishing license requirements."

Please explain to me how you can have a commercial fishing licence that exempts the boat and indivigual from the commercial fishing licence requirements. That is a contradiction in and of itself.

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635-011-0100

General Rule

It is unlawful to take any fish, shellfish, or marine invertebrates for personal use except as provided in these rules which include and incorporate the 2002 Sport Fishing Regulations as posted on www.dfw.state.or.us by reference.

Okay, so the albacore landing licence is an exception , that is the whole point of this discussion.

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UG

[ 10-28-2002, 01:01 PM: Message edited by: Uglygreen ]

[Deepslayer]

Hey Dave (WP) when do we start? I think the full fledged commercial fishing license is the way to go! Maybe I'll buy a boat now and let our goverment "revenoors" pay for it. I've got all that vacation to burn before the new rules **** me!!! Looks like ocean fishing is out for Tuesday. Are you still thinking of going someplace? Let me know.
,Ed

[Uglygreen]

Sorry, I forgot the rest of Chumkings post.

"Who did you talk to with ODFW that gave you your information? It seems that what you have heard is in direct contradiction to other existing laws i.e. the albacore license would not allow you to sport and commercial fish on the same trip, etc. Also ODFW could not have answered the questions about the safety requirements from the USCG."

Norm Whitten is the gentelman in the ODFW licencing department that I spoke to.

It is clear that you do not need a commercial boat licence. The USCG requirements for commercially licenced boats only apply to boats that are commercially licenced. The USCG requirements do not apply to boats that are not commercially licenced. You do not need a commercial boat licence. Thereby you do not need to have the commercial boat gear. That is obvious.

I fail to see the contradiction you speak of. The Statute law and administrative rules clearly provide an exception to the normal sport and commercial requirements in regards to Albacore tuna. You may not like it, but it is there nonetheless.

UG

[Pitch Pocket]

[img]graemlins/lurk.gif[/img]

[pkg40]

It is pretty obvious that the regulations are subject to interpretation. The following are also clear:

1. Albacore landing permit is a commercial angling license.

2. The rubber hits the road with the agents of enforcement. Most of us have better things to do than prove in court that we are right and the local law enforcement agent is wrong.

My conclusion is that you should decide if you want to sport fish or commercial fish before you leave the dock. This means fish only for albacore and plan to sell all of your catch to the buyer you have made arrangements with. If you wish to commercial fish only for Albacore, get an Albacore landing permit as it is the most economical. For many of this crowd who get out many times a SUmmer, it seems reasonable that you can catch all you can personally use in the first couple of trips and further trips could be devote to commercial trips where you buy back a fish or two if you want fresh. That was my plan this year unfortunately I didn't have the time to make it out as much as I wanted to, so I never got the chance to go commercial fishing.

[ 11-11-2002, 06:54 PM: Message edited by: pkg40 ]