Vacuum Packer question

Hook-up · 10-02-2002, 11:50 PM

My Dad asked me to research a good vacuum packer. I have read some of the threads in the past regarding tricks of the trade for vacuum packing, but I do not remember specific brand recommendations. A lot of people have the food saver types (sold at Costco/Bimart, etc.), however I have been told by a few friends that the liquid from packing fresh fish causes problems.
Are there any other good brands out there that do not have this problem? Dad does not mind spending more for a better product. Especially if you do not have to freeze your fish first, put it in a veggie bag first, prop the unit up in some special way, customize the seal, or any of the other hassles associated with vacuum packing fresh fish.
Any advice on brand, cost and best location to buy one are greatly appreciated.
Thanks

[ 10-03-2002, 12:51 AM: Message edited by: Hook-up ]

black magic · 10-03-2002, 07:00 AM

Hook-up,

While I can't offer advice on a good brand of vacuum packer, I can verify that a Food Saver is not a very good choice I have owned one for about four years. The one I have never has worked very well. It has two basic problems, the vacuum pump is totally inadequate in that it lacks even minimal capacity and the sealer has only two settings: 1. doesn't seal fully, or 2. melts through the plastic.

PeterMac · 10-03-2002, 07:41 AM

I got so P - O 'ed at my foodsaver last time I used it I smacked it hard enough to put it out of its misery

. I would love to find a more industrial one. Maybe Cabellas?

PeterMac

Pitch Pocket · 10-03-2002, 08:04 AM

I too get frustrated with my Food Saver. I've had it many years and have vacuum packed a lot of fish. I have found that the wide bags are the hardest to seal. I find myself just not using them and sticking to the 8" bags.

The sealing heater (at least on mine) is adjustable, but I've melted through a couple of bags.

I've also found flaws in the bags. Some bags just won't vacuum. When I finally give up and test the bag, it has a small hole in it somewhere. The next bag I make seals just fine.

The commercial units are very expensive and . I find that for the money, I can fiddle around with the Food Saver.

Myles · 10-03-2002, 10:08 AM

I don't know what your timeframe is but there's someone at the sportsman show in Jan. or Feb. I didn't watch the whole demo since I wasn't buying, but it looked like a semi-pro machine. I just looked at another web site that I thought might have an alternative, they do but you could buy a used car for the amount they're asking :shocked:

http://alliedkenco.com/store.htm
kinda interesting to browse anyway
myles

8knots · 10-03-2002, 10:23 AM

Ditto on the Tilia Foodsaver models that I have had. I also think that the quality of the bags has a lot to do with it. I lost a lot of good fish from my tuna and Canada trips last year due to poor vacuum on the bags. That spurred me to do a lot of web-based research. The commercial models are just too expensive and big. However, I did find a beefier unit called Maxima Magic Vac..........who know who really makes it, but I have been very pleased with it. It has a double pump for greater vacuum and they sell superior bags. I bought extra bags and they work much better than the ones from FoodSaver. It is Model #87301. You can find in online at www.shopdirect.com or 800 266-6971. It is currently $250 with free shipping. Good Luck.

blubeast · 10-03-2002, 10:43 AM

While I've only had my Food Saver a couiple of years... I've used it for alot of fish. I too have had trouble with faulty seals from the heating unit.

Now I routinely double seal both the ends... now rarely have a problem with the vaccum not holding.

OceanBlue · 10-03-2002, 12:53 PM

I just bought my Foodsaver last spring. It works just fine if you pat fish dry before placing in the bag and sealing. [img]graemlins/idea.gif[/img]

Small bones, or hard, dry items like jerky can cause minute holes that will keep bags from sealing properly, but for the most part, the unit has worked flawlessly. :smile:

rojo · 10-03-2002, 01:13 PM

I use the 8" bags in my food saver, but I prewrap fish and meat in one layer of plastic wrap and then freeze till just firm then vacum pack. No problems thus far...Roger

Miss B Haven · 10-03-2002, 02:37 PM

I have one of the first model "Foodsavers" (12 or so yrs old?). It's completely manual and only has two modes, suck and seal (no adjustable anything).
I used to have problems with the bags not sealing until I did two things. First, stop buying the cheap crap bags that are all wrinkled when you get a little inside the roll.

Second, I double seal every seam. Hit it once, keep the pressure on the lid, wait about 10 secs and reseal. I haven't had a bag not seal since I started doing this. :grin:

fishwhenican · 10-03-2002, 06:15 PM

I did have a food saver unit. Had it for several years, then the vacuum sensing switch went out. I callled food saver (Tillia) they told me to send it in with $50.00 and they would send me a refurbished unit in say 4-6 weeks. I asked for just the part--NO. Faster freight?--NO! Any way to fix it any sooner --NO! !@#@#%^*)()%^ !!! Food Saver is saved for parts. I saw a unit at the Portland sports show called VacUpack,800-227-3769 www.profmarket.com I have been happy with its performance so far (and they told me they would sell individual parts)

Fishplay · 10-03-2002, 08:43 PM

I think the model of foodsaver is everything. My Tila is 12 years old and has sealed literaly tons of product. I'm not sure of the model # but it was the first model to have the vacuume chamber verses the nozzle with the silly sponge that protects the vacume pump.
What I have learned from others is don't buy the cheap models especialy the one that is one button opperational. You want sepparate buttons for sealing and vacuuming. If your gonna buy Tila spend the money and buy there professional model.
My .02
Greg

fishinfool · 10-04-2002, 04:34 PM

My dad and I bought a foodsaver ultra last year and it worked great but there was some preparation first of the fish. Like someone earlier said pat it dry with a paper towel and then put it in the bag. Second we fold paper towels into 1/8's and cut them apart and put a part of the towel into the top of the bag and seal. That part of the paper towel catches any moisture that comes out of the fish and doesn't let it get caught in your sealer which will ruin the sealer. All you have to make sure is not part of that towel gets in the seal and it works great.

RJ · 10-04-2002, 08:11 PM

http://www.aryvacmaster.com/vacmaster/main/index.htm check this link out if your after a serious vacuum sealer there the best on the market from what I've seen and worked with .I have the SVP-5 .I did get to see and work with the SVP-15 while I was up in Alaska Fly fishing and was Really Impressed there not cheap though.RJ

[ 10-04-2002, 09:15 PM: Message edited by: RJ ]

Silver One · 10-04-2002, 08:57 PM

Hook-up, As you can see we all need to become rocket scientists in order to make these "simple" machines work. I will add my .02. 1. Seal the package once as described by others. 2. Instead of resealing with the same sometimes faulty heat element on the vac packer use that thing your wife uses on clothes with a large standing board. I think she calls it a..........oh ya Iron. Warning, don't over familarize yourself with this object. Better yet, let her do it. This does an incredible job.3. Instead of stacking packages in the freezer randomly, place them in a container, preferably a small box (after frozen), stack them carefully using a layer of fish then a layer of newspaper, repeat till full. I have found that the loss of vacuum and thereby freezer burned fish is caused by a small hole brought about by handling and stacking frozen and brittle ( -10 degrees F on sharp bends!) plastic foodsaver packaging. By minimizing handling and inserting the newspaper cushion product loss is minimized. I will continue using this system untill I can justify buying a totally different vacuum packer. The one I'm looking at was at the Portland Sportsman show last February. It is called a "VacMaster" and is sold by "Clark Meat Processing Prod." in Clackamas, OR. 503-557-1172. I got one of their broshures at the show and saw the product working. Quite efficient I thought. My main reason for considering that product was bag cost. Nearly 1/10 the cost of foodsaver bags and they are exactly the same bags you see in grocery stores to vac-pac everything we buy (4 mil thickness and the clear soft plastic, less brittle than foodsavers). The big drawback is initial outlay, over a grand. I have thought about partnering up to lessen that outlay. You might want to check them out. Good luck! Mike

Miss B Haven · 10-04-2002, 09:06 PM

Silver One - Sounds like a sales pitch I tried to ignore once before. Did I see you at the State fair? :whazzup: [img]graemlins/1zhelp.gif[/img]

[ 10-04-2002, 10:07 PM: Message edited by: Miss B Haven ]

Silver One · 10-04-2002, 10:00 PM

Miss B Haven, By that I guess you're wondering if I'm a representitive or have an interest in this product. I do not. I have had the great frustration of throwing away in the last several years some of the finest silver and chinook salmon ever. This lead me on a journey of discovery as to the cause and how I might solve it. If you've not ever had this problem please share with me where I have gone wrong!

Miss B Haven · 10-04-2002, 10:09 PM

Silver - Sorry, as I stated above, I have a 12-15 year old $150 dollar foodsaver and it works great. I keep fish up to one year and although not like fresh/unfrozen, it is like last weeks just frozen. I can not see spending $1000.00 to do the same.
As stated above, I had a bad experiance with cheap bags that were full of wrinkles (not holding seal) and learned to double seal (I think my element is a little on the cool side), but for $800 bucks delta, a little learning I can deal with.
Sorry again, but that last part of your post just sounded like a pitch!

Silver One · 10-04-2002, 10:18 PM

Miss B Haven, No problem, I live in Medford and get our bags from Costco and Bi-Mart. They are Food-Saver bags. Who makes yours and where do you get them? Cost?

Miss B Haven · 10-04-2002, 10:27 PM

Ditto now (Costco bulk pack). I don't remember who made the crummy ones. They were OK at the head of the roll, but about 1/4 way down the wrinkles started. They just got worse as you got down thru. It was a nightmare to try to pull the wrinkles out and get a seal (the wrinkles were like 4 layers of material instead of 2 and of course the edge is there). That's when I started the double seal. Although it takes a little longer, I haven't had a bag that lost vacuum since.

If it works, do it! :grin:

Silver One · 10-04-2002, 10:37 PM

Miss B Haven, Thanks for the input. I think I'll still use the Iron/Cardboard box routine though as long as it works. Good fish is just to valuble to loose. Thanks....Mike

Orca · 10-05-2002, 07:25 AM

I have an original foodsaver (12+ yrs old) and it works for me. Occasionally I have a bag that doesn't take, but have also recently gone to double seals. I also follow other advice given above - paper towel strips at top of bags to catch liquid, dry fish first before bagging, double seal, etc.

Also if I am bagging sharp pointy objects like fish with bones poking out, or crab in the shell, I wrap the item in a couple other layers of regular plastic bags to keep from getting a hole in the foodsaver bags.

Cabela's (www.cabelas.com) has the VacMaster SVP-5 for $499, and they carry the bags also. Thay have another "commercial" unit with their name on it for $399. I may try these bags in the furture.

Netscape · 10-05-2002, 08:44 PM

We use a Food Saver - great vacuum and the bags stay sealed. To keep the liquid from being sucked out, a folded paper towel can be layed in the bag (not on the fish but up by the sealer). All liquid goes into the towel and doesn't interfer with the contents. You only need an extra half inch or less of bag to make room for the towel.

You say freezing first is not an option but we've found that to be a much more efficient method. We lay the pieces on a cookie sheet just covered with cling wrap. When frozen, we glaze them with a mixture of Vit C crystals and water (2 tsp to a quart) either by dipping or spraying. We do this twice, a couple of hours between each glaze to give them time to freeze well, then vacuum seal the pieces. Frozen individually like this, you can take what you need from the package and reseal at any time. When used months later, these fish are just like fresh.

We got this idea from RFA Janice and use it for salmon, tuna, and any other fish we catch. The solution is so weak that there is no residual taste left on the fish. Why this works, we have no idea, but it really does work!

Kim Katsion · 10-05-2002, 10:31 PM

fishwhenican, I would never again use the group that you recommend. They sold me the SV 10 and there was a seal problem, they drug their feet and finally sent me a new seal. Not overnight express, it took six days to get here. I wanted to talk to the owner of the company and left him many messages and he never returned my call.

It is a good machine, but I would buy it through the Clackamas store, I have hear good things about them.

I burned up three machines to the tune of about 500-600 hundred dollars, now I spent 1,500 and got a good product. Call the Clack place not the other one.

Tight lines,

Kim

Sensei-san · 10-06-2002, 10:11 AM

Netscape, as another famous Oregonian named Linus Pauling found out years ago, Vitamin C is a powerful anti-oxidant. He used to take megadoses of vitamin C and wrote several books on its health benefits. Linus Pauling lived to be in his 90's. He died of old age not alzheimer's.

In any dosage it will stop the formation of free radicals. No, not the type that cause riots in Eugene, OR. Free radicals are suspected of causing many health related problems and spoilage in preserved foods. Vitamin C is commonly called ascorbic acid. You can get it at health food stores in crystal form. If you look at most packaged foods you will find ascorbic acid or vitamin C listed on the ingredients.

It is probably the most benign of the various preservatives that one could use. The other being NaCl or salt. But that one has definite bad side effects.

TheRogue · 10-06-2002, 10:56 AM

OLLLLDDD Foodsaver... Double seal bags, prewrap everything in plastic wrap, papertowel in the top of the bag. No problems!!

That thing that some people call an "iron" is an interesting idea, though! Not that I would want to be caught dead using one, though :grin: :grin:

8knots · 10-06-2002, 03:55 PM

For what it's worth....the Maxima Magic Vac that I have has an adjustable sealing element.
When I turn it up it will actually burn right through the bag so I use a mid-high setting. It also has an adjustable setting for the vacuum but I leave that on high as I can't see a downside to being aggressive about getting all the air out.

This unit looks similar to, and has many of the same features found on the Foodsaver Sportsman model. By buying online I saved some dough. Bottom line for me is that it just sucks and seals a lot better than the Foodsaver Ultima that I still have. I also freeze the fish and use paper towel in the bag to catch any liquid. When you are doing a lot of fish at one time the reliability of the Maxima over my lower end Foodsaver has been well worth it. Love it when something associated with boating and fishing works reliably.

Hook-up · 10-07-2002, 09:41 PM

Thanks everyone for all of the input. It is much appreciated.

[ 10-07-2002, 10:41 PM: Message edited by: Hook-up ]