Invading Chinook are rapidly spreading into the rivers of Chile and Argentina.

[Fishing Dear]

I saw this on Google news, they say it started 25 years ago when they tried to farm Chinooks in South America and now they call it an invasive species.

Mostly because they have no dams to stop the breeding frenzy.

Almost a nice problem to have...


http://www.sciencenews.org/view/gene..._of_the_salmon

[fyshndad]

Very interesting

I sure do hope we can learn something to help our salmon recover from this study

[NotReady]

Looks like I need to move.

[Fatkid]

Interesting article.

I never realized salmon were designed to survive and reproduce on their own. It's almost like they only need a chance to do their natural thing. What a weird concept.

It's encouraging to think the returns could recover if we let them, but I'm afraid it will never be a real priority. The power companies and government will continue buying the science that points our $ in the wrong direction.

[Tip-Sea]

Very interesting. Do they have a thriving seal population?

[Lucky one]

All they need to do is hire some local salmon managers and their problem would vanish. I'm sure we could spare a few.

[Duckwheat]

After the human race is gone and the damns have been washed away............

I think it will all get back to the way it was in the beginning. I was in Alaska back in the early 80's. There was a road that had been abandoned about 3 years earlier. It was completely disrupted with plant growth. I guesssed in another 3-4 years you would not know there was a road there.

DW

[wapiteaser]

is it closer to chile than anchorage? anyone want to bet that there will soon be some guides with trips to south america for chinook and maybe browns? cheaper than alaska. already know a bunch that run down there to fish browns. could be a boost for the government down there is they knew what they had sitting in the rivers. kind of neat just like it is though.

[tafish7]

Great article!

It goes to show you what Mother Nature can do when unhindered buy Politics, Power Companys, Commercial Nets and Big $$$.

What a nice problem to have! " To many invasive salmon " If we could only be so lucky. ?????

[HiTekRdNek]

Interesting in that the salmon have gone and found it's own habitat.
I'm curious if this is a normal pattern. Or could this be part of our changing climate?

[GreatWhiteHunter]

This has GOT to be some kind of mistake! Hatchery-raised fish thriving and reproducing in huge numbers? Aren't they too inferior and weak to do that? I predict an imminent collapse based on the obvious genetic inferiority of these fish! I mean just LOOK at all of those puny, weak 30# kings!

I love this quote from the article:

"South American chinook don’t have to cope with dams, extensive fishing and genetic mixing with hatchery fish that dilute the wild stock’s local adaptations," Stanford says.

Where does he think these fish came from? Immaculate conception?

[dre5063]

I love this quote from the article:

"South American chinook don’t have to cope with dams, extensive fishing and genetic mixing with hatchery fish that dilute the wild stock’s local adaptations," Stanford says.

Where does he think these fish came from? Immaculate conception?[/quote]

You know, the osprey's winter down there. Maybe one of them took their lunch to-go and dropped the eggs into the river. It could happen...

[ron m]

"Hatchery fish" may have more than one definition. Some folks use it to mean any fish from a hatchery regardless of if the parents were wild fish or 8th generation hatchery fish. Other folks may mean the fish that are the result of many generations of fish returning to the hatcheries.

In the fish conservation class at OSU that I sat in on this term I learned that there is a difference. One study examined the return to spawn rate of wild fish, first generation hatchery fish (i.e., wild fish as parents) and hatchery fish from several gernerations of hatchery fish. The wild fish and the hatchery fish with wild parents had the same return to spawn rate and that rate was 30% higher than the return to spawn rate of the several generation hatchery fish.

As I understood it, "hatchery fish" can mean fish from several generations of hatchery fish which may affect the gene pool of that group of fish by selecting for behavior that helps fish raised in a hatchery to survive but that can be determintal in the wild. An example may be aggressiveness. More aggressive fry might do well in a hatchery, they may get more food and grow larger and faster which may increase their chance of survival upon release. But fry in the wild that are too aggressive and quick to go for food may also be more susceptible to becoming prey themselves. hence perhaps the hatchery environment may tend to select for aggressiveness and the wild environment may tend to select for a milder level of aggressiveness, a level with some caution. If that happens for many generations, then there could be a difference in the gene pool between wild and multi-generation hatchery fish. If the same type of selection occurs for many traits over many generations, then the differences in the gene pool may become significant.

Also, I don't know where the chinook were obtained for the South American salmon farms. maybe they got their stock (or fertilized eggs) from hatcheries using multi-generation hatchery fish or maybe they got them from hatcheries that use wild stock for their eggs and fry. Maybe regardless of their source, after several generations natural selection has again occured based on the traits best suited for survival in the rivers there. And maybe those traits are not exactly the same ones that best suit the fish for survival in the rivers here because of the difference in food supply or predators or something else.
ron m

[Bait Bucket]

That's just great! They get Chinook. We get shad.

[slabhunter]

These fishes have habitat, the key to wildlife. No wonder they survive from strays.
It would be great to see if these fish move North to repopulate along our coast.

[PC Silver Streak]

It was the Marine Reserves (no-fishing zones) they put in place down there that produced these high numbers of Chinook Salmon into the rivers! The climate changes ocurring worldwide should be destroying these Chinook runs. I don't understand what is going on down there? I am sure glad they put in Marine reserves down there to save the Chinook Salmon!

I am just joking everybody!

[PC Silver Streak]

If the folks that want to put in Marine Reserves off the Oregon coast, would pay for aquaculture for the species they think need protecting, then may be we would have very sustainable fish stocks off the Oregon coast. This is an example what aquaculture can do for the Chinook Salmon down south.

[Deeman]

It is amazing to me that with the spawning returns generated in the Great Lakes area (Niagra river for one) by northwest hatchery stocks numbering in the millions, and now returns generated by Aqua-Cultured Salmon in Chile which are non-naturally occuring to the area and supposedly of such weaker stock (see generations of aqua culture{Commercial Hatchery}) that we still have ODFW and ECO- scientists claiming that Hatchery to Hatchery stock spawning will produce ZERO returns. It really explains alot about how we have gotten to where we are with respect to our Salmon runs. The idea about sending down some ODFW Bios to help grow their stocks solving their problem makes sense to me. Maybe they can send some brood stock up to help us out.

[finclipped]

Future Headline Year 2050:

"Extinct NW Chinook Salmon to be re-introduced from Chile Stock."

[fishinglady]

Originally Posted by Fishing Dear

I saw this on Google news, they say it started 25 years ago when they tried to farm Chinooks in South America and now they call it an invasive species.

Mostly because they have no dams to stop the breeding frenzy.

Almost a nice problem to have...


http://www.sciencenews.org/view/gene..._of_the_salmon

I think we have just found a new home for sea lions.

[smalldog]

They have way too many Great Whites off the coast of Chili...Sea lions become puppy chow in a big hurry...

[ron m]

Originally Posted by smalldog

They have way too many Great Whites off the coast of Chili...Sea lions become puppy chow in a big hurry...

Puppy chow? How about shark chow?!

This is an excellent argument for leaving great whites alone to do their business!

It would be great to have some off our coast for a while-- or even better, a big pod of hungry Orcas!
ron m

[Rodbender]

Originally Posted by dre5063

I love this quote from the article:

"South American chinook don’t have to cope with dams, extensive fishing and genetic mixing with hatchery fish that dilute the wild stock’s local adaptations," Stanford says.

Where does he think these fish came from? Immaculate conception?

You know, the osprey's winter down there. Maybe one of them took their lunch to-go and dropped the eggs into the river. It could happen...

Most Salmon aquaculture stock in Chile is Atlantic Salmon, as you can see in your local Costco most days of the week.

There were Japanese scientists working on introducing Chinook in Chilean rivers back in the early 90's-looks like some of their efforts have borne fruit-or fish if you prefer.

Historically, chinook ranged along the coast of North America from southern California north to mid-Alaska and west across the Pacific to Japan. The species was introduced to other areas and can now be found in the Great Lakes of the United States, and in New Zealand and Chile

from http://www.springerlink.com/content/x1786471m2k10017/

There are numerous other sources on the net for information re:introduction of wild Chinook in Chile and a few in Argentina as well.
.

[GreatWhiteHunter]

Originally Posted by Rodbender

Most Salmon aquaculture stock in Chile is Atlantic Salmon, as you can see in your local Costco most days of the week.

They do raise Atlantics, and also raise coho's from eggs aquired from SE Alaska, and apparently Kings as well.

Regardless of whether or not these fish are decendants of aqua-culture or planting efforts, the means and end are the same...king salmon were hatched and released (escaped?) and are thriving in large quantities. THAT should be our model...allow first generation hatchery fish to spawn, propogate, and thrive in every river system in the NW! Who would this not benefit from this model? Clearly the fish do!

[RazorClam]

how about we send all the commercial guys down there and let our fish recover!