Help, fishing researchers needed

Pilar · 08-08-2002, 01:05 PM

NMFS has money to spend. Can you imagine doing research :grin: , government funded fishing research :grin: on your wessel? :grin: :grin:

We need to find and scientifically prove fishing methods that avoid the catch of the prohibited rockfish. This process will take years but may be the key to access to the soon to be closed areas.

You can help in several ways. If you know of gear and methods that avoid Yelloweye rockfish, Canary Rockfish and Boccacio Rockfish while catching Halibut, Salmon and the other bottom fish, speak up.

If you are familiar with the federal grant process, we need your expertise. And if you are willing to catch fish (or not catch fish) for uncle sam then speak up.

We are looking for a few brave souls and trailblazers.

If this method and gear restriction can be found it may allow access to the closed areas by sportfishers.

All kidding aside this ain't no *****! I can provide you with contact info if you want it.

[ 08-08-2002, 02:07 PM: Message edited by: Pilar ]

wak'm&stak'm · 08-08-2002, 01:19 PM

This is interesting......I know how to catch big lings and not catch reds. But it has to do with big live bait that reds don't eat.
Since I only fish the pile and not inshore reefs, let me know what I can do to help....Thanks Dan

Bait O' Eggs · 08-08-2002, 01:55 PM

I have a couple ideas for preventing fish from being caught.

1. Have either Catch and Eat or Birdhunter on board while fishing.

2. Call the trip a floatilla and have RT do the fishing

Though in all seriousness it sounds interesting. We develop a company, buy lots of equipment and go out on the water and lets do what we all love, only with experimental gear while being paid with grant money. I wonder if that grant money would pay for the big Grady White I would need to the field testing.

Pilar · 08-08-2002, 02:02 PM

Now you're talking dude!

Grady White Sailfish!!! :grin:

Deepslayer · 08-08-2002, 02:49 PM

Grady White!? Hey if this is a partnership count me in!

We can always put our wifes & mates names on the grant and call it a minority enterprise. :grin:
,Ed

avid · 08-08-2002, 02:49 PM

John,

I found this article entitled: Management of Pacific Rockfish
http://www.fisheries.org/fisheries/a...March22-29.pdf

Here are some articles from the bibliography of this piece. There are articles about spatial distribution of Rockfishes which would be key if you are looking to control the harvest of one particular specie. I suspect that since the commercials can�t target specifically as well as sport fishers potentially can that no one has even really given it much thought. Don�t take any of these citations as golden but look them up in the aforementioned article before attempting to find them.

Hallacher, L.E. and D. A. Roberts 1985 Differential utilization of space and food by the inshore rockfishes
(Scorpaenidae: Sebastes) of Carmel Bay, CA Environ. Biol. Fish. 12(2):91-110

Larson, R. J. 1980 Competition, habitat selection, and the bathymetric segregation of two rockfish (Sebastes) species. Ecol. Monogr 50:221-239

Matthews, K. R. 1991 An experimental study of the habitat preferences and movement patterns of copper, quill-back, and brown rockfishes ( Sebastes spp) Environ. Bio Fish. 29:161-178

O�Connell, V. M., D. Carlile, 1993 Habitat specific density of adult yelloweye rockfish in the easter Guld of Alaska Fish. Bull 91:304-309

Richards, L. J. 1986 Depth and habitat distributions of three species of rock-fish (Sebastes) in British Columbia: observations from the submersible PISCES IV. Environ. Biol. Fish. 17:13-21

Stein, D.L., B.N. Tissot and M.A. Hixon 1992 Fish-habitat associations on a deep reef at the edge of the Oregon continental shelf. Fish. Bull. 90:601-628

Walters C. J., and R. Bonfil 1999 Multi-species spatial assessment models for the British Columbia groundfish trawl fishery Can. J. Fish. Aquat. Sci. 56:601-628.

Book that may be of some use: http://www.uaf.edu/seagrant/Pubs_Vid...bs/MAB-25.html

Here is a very interesting web page at Pacific Fisheries Management Council with information on Yelloweye Rockfish ((Sebastes ruberrimus)) that actually tells Washington sport and commercial fisherman to avoid certain areas. Also has information on status of problem and efforts underway to protect.

http://www.pcouncil.org/groundfish/gfavoidyellow.html

This is the information I winnowed from a search at Google through and including the fifth page of returned links with the search topic �Pacific Rockfish.�

Grady White Sailfish 282, is that the ifish promotional prize for the one that breaks the code? Jennie get that boat prepped and ready for delivery. <g>

Threemuch · 08-08-2002, 03:16 PM

I am in. I can think of a couple of techniques right off the bat.

Large mackerel, sandabs, herring over 10" catch very few if any rockfish.

Similarly, jigs over 10" in length catch few rockfish as well.

This would allow us to target Lings in deep water. Bye bye shrimp flys.
KB

HawgJaw · 08-08-2002, 03:39 PM

Well, since I am a such a patriotic guy, you can count me in. Anything for uncle sam :grin: . HJ

Jsail · 08-08-2002, 04:12 PM

Do you really think it is safe to spend so much time on the ocean with just one boat? [img]graemlins/idea.gif[/img]
I'm thinking 2-3 to do a accurate assesment of rockfish. Maybe one up north another on the central coast and then another down south.
I wonder if you'd get a better deal if you bought 2-3 at once?

Just a thought; after all it's goverment money

wak'm&stak'm · 08-08-2002, 04:13 PM

I agree...kiss the shimp flies and small attachments goodbye.
Here is a bad subject but it would work....limit downriggers to 100 ft of cable. It would suck...but you would save the samon fishery (which I cant believe would be an issue here).

Pilar · 08-08-2002, 04:54 PM

Wak, you are all over it. This suggestion was made last night at the meeting in Astoria by me. I made the comment that I could catch Halibut at will trolling salmon gear on a downrigger at 100 ft. I also suggested a weight limit for bottom fish gear as others did at the Monday meeting. Any restriction we propose has to be proven scientifically and be enforceable before it will be accepted.

But we are clever, us fishers and we will figure it out.

Gear restrictions like a short downrigger wire would save the Halibut fishery. Maybe we could keep incidental halibut during salmon fishing at the pile and get away from the dangerous derby fishery we have now.

As it is now the dates are set in advance and you have to go if it is even possible. It would be much safer if you could pick your days. Same number of fish a year just more flexibility about how and when you catch them.

avid · 08-08-2002, 05:01 PM

In trying to frame this question for myself, that Grady(s) sounds awfully good, I had a "No #%@& Sherlock" kind of thought that would no doubt be taught on day one in Fisheries Management 101. There are four ways to manage a fish population
<ul type="square">[*]Season[/list]<ul type="square">[*]Location[/list]<ul type="square">[*]Technique[/list]<ul type="square">[*]Allocation[/list]I can here you guys thinking, who drug in the genius? ROFL! It just helped me start to fill in the potential blanks by making each item into a question. I will fill in with my questions later this eveing. In the meantime here are three more artilces that I found by searching on:Sebastes ruberrimus.
Nothing at the first link but some pictures; it sounds like a good article.

... resurvey. Tiger (Sebastes nigrocinctus) and yelloweye (Sebastes ruberrimus)
rockfish at Stonewall Bank at 150 foot depths in 1991. ...
Tissot: Oregon Fishery Habitat Studies

http://www.vancouver.wsu.edu/fac/tissot/heceta03.htm

Inshore Rockfish: Stock Assessment for the West Coast of Canada and Recommendations for Management
K. L. Yamanaka and L.C. Lacko

http://www.ncr.dfo.ca/csas/Csas/DocR...S2001_139e.pdf

Status of the Yelloweye Rockfish Resource in 2001
for Northern California and Oregon Waters

http://www.wa.gov/wdfw/fish/rockfish/yelloweye.htm

avid · 08-08-2002, 08:37 PM

My .02 cents worth, in my former life I used to work in land based resource management.

The more specific and less general the regulation the better it will be. (another DUH!) If you employ all four methods of regulating a fishery; season, location, time and technique you can become very specific with your goals. Obviously, it becomes more complicated for the fisherman to understand but if followed it allows the maximum freedom to fish. Personally, I hate complicated regulations but if it means open versus closed then it�s not an issue.

Now for the questions

� Season- is there any way to limit the take by limiting fishing based on time of year?
o Are there times when the endangered rockfish are more aggressive?
o More likely to be caught?
o More likely to be taken incidentally?

� Location- is there any way to limit the take by restricting fishing based on geography such as:
o Are they found between certain depths, should we exclude other depths from regulation?
o Could ODF&W delineate areas that are crucial habitat with increased restrictions in these areas on season, technique and allocations, not closures?
o Could there be voluntary restrictions based on critical habitat?

� Technique- is there any way to limit the take by defining the gear used to fish for other species?
o What do they like in bait and hardware?
o What don�t they in like bait and hardware?
o What gear is too large?
o Is there any seasonal change in preferences?
o Don�t put restrictions in place unless there is an excessive amount of incidental harvest.

� Allocation- is there some way to calculate what the sport fish take is and to slow and then stop fishing if the numbers exceed what is thought to be prudent?
o All caught endangered rockfish must be kept in order to develop numbers of incidental sport caught fish. Besides, it�s just plain foolish to release dead fish.
o There should be a series of control levels dependant upon incidental catch.
o Endangered rockfish Sport fishing catch record, again to develop data.
o Maybe recreational fishermen aren�t making any dent in the population.

Closure is not management; it�s the absence of management. The ideal system would start with an allocation, time, location and technique restrictions that would increase as the incidental harvest quota is met. It would start out with limited restrictions and as the season progressed additional restrictions would be added to slow down the take. Finally complete closure would be the last option. After several years of management like this they would have and idea about how many pounds of endangered rockfish were being harvested, what restrictions seem to work and what are the least limiting to the other sport fishing seasons. If they just close the season they have no information.

The other issue I keep seeing over and over is the matter of funding and how if the sport fishers willingly accept higher fees for better management that the legislature could take the money and put it in the general fund. It sounds like we either need a ballot initiative or a friendly legislator to sponsor a bill preventing this.

Be careful what you ask for and think it over at length. I would imagine the officials are probably desperate for an answer especially one that could be blamed on someone else. Temporary regulations have a way of becoming permanent.

I am going to the Seattle Boat show next week and I will see what the price would be for three Grady White 282 Sailfishes to a non-profit Oregon recreational sport fishing think tank. Sounds like it should be free to me. <g>

Snakebite · 08-10-2002, 07:50 AM

Avid!!!!!!!!!!
Send your .02 cents worth to the council before august 21! DO IT NOW! Those are great ideas that could be implemented NOW!

As for doing research, it can be very fun! Working at the ODFW office in Newport, I got to spend 15 days in May and June catching black rockfish to tag and release them. What a kick! One day I caught 18 lingcod before catching a black!. They were starting to get irritated with me! I've also participated in many other research projects at sea on trawlers. I guess that's why I'm an underpaid fish biologist. It's Fun! On the other hand, I'm pretty much relegated to being a computer nerd most of the time anymore.

avid · 08-10-2002, 08:07 AM

Snakebite and John,

I will take my final swing at this thing and yes, I wil send it to the commision.

You are right; any fishing technique that might be proposed in order to protect the rockfish will need to be scientifically based. How do you prove anything without data?

I think that NMFS, Pacific Fishery Management Council or ODF&W should immediately put up a website with a database behind it to start collecting information from sport fisherman. The purpose of the database would be to determine the recreational incidental catch of endangered rockfish. Secondly, to attempt to determine the techniques that are incidentally catching these fish and those that don't. In addition, to determine if there are times that the incidental harvest is greater than others. Finally, are there any trends in locations and depths where the endangered rockfish are being caught; that could be winnowed out of the data? A website with a good database won't be cheap but it could, with good cooperation of fishermen, put a lot of solid data up in short order.

How to gain the cooperation of the sport fisherman would be the trick. A concerted effort would be needed to make this not about "us versus them" but all of us together trying to preserve ocean fishing for our grandkids. It would require effort from fisherman, those that are connected, to enter the data about their catch of endangered rockfish after a trip. It would take some great fishermen and great biologists to come up with the right question set. The first cut would have to include "other" selections and therefore require some hand manipulation until the scope of the data would be understood. After an initial period, the data could be entirely manipulated by queries.

Of course, ifish would be a great resource for developing the beginning set of questions and to iron out problems once a proposed questionnaire had been developed. Then you will need that fleet of Grady Whites and ifisherman to verify the data.

Other than attempting to read the articles I posted in a previous entry, I think I have said enough. I can hear people shouting Amen! <g>

sturgn · 08-10-2002, 08:48 AM

Hell I'll do it for gas money! but it may be cheaper for them to buy me a more efficiant vessel. If anyone was interested in setting up board where we can compile information to give to the proper people, I have lots of web space and wouldnt mind using it.

tag-a-long · 08-13-2002, 09:29 PM

Hey, you will need a cook to keep everyone fed right? I'm in... We used alot of big herring and caught very few rocks this hali season... Pilar, the use of the fresh herring was the better between fresh and frozen. the 2 rocks caught were caught on frozen herring about 6 inches long.
I also think the use of the bigger circle hooks helped keep them away from the bait.

tag-a-long · 08-13-2002, 09:33 PM

ya know? I think avid is right there... If ODFW can figure where the big concentrations of rock fish are, the areas can be cordoned off by using GPS coordinates. Say a 1 mile diameter? ah, who knows. just more .02 for the kitty..