English Pointers?

[BrianMaguire]

We are looking at getting a dog. Good for Uplands, Good with Kids, shortish hair. My wife likes English pointers. Any advice?

[Snug 2]

I grew up hunting chukar and quail over english pointers. Sweet dogs in more ways than one. They can be very high strung or active depending on who you are talking to, and they have a whip like tail that might move a few things off the end tables in the living room. If I wasn't a german shorthair guy (no tails in our house) I would not hesitate to own one. Good around kids and other pets. If you and the family has time to spend with them, they might be a good option. Tim at Sauvie Island Kennel raises them. Call them and go look a few over just to see what you think.

[Don Fischer]

I like EP's; heck I like all dogs! Doesn't sound to me like an EP is really what you need. You live in Portland and now and again the EP's need to stretch their legs. They can be wound pretty tight and some are really cold, they just need you to turn them loose. Their long tail has a tendency to clean off coffee tables!

I would suggest looking at GSP's. Not quite as hyper, short hair, make great pets and more adaptable to city life. Generally speaking they are more people orientated too.

[BrianMaguire]

we have 5 ac that we are building on so its not too city like but I understand.

[Bait Bucket]

Great dogs. Great hunters. They NEED room to run.

[rimurphy]

Heck, all pointing dogs make great hunting partners and awesome pets for anyone. I've owned EP's and trained quite a few as well. They tend to be a little hard headed sometimes, but give em consistant training, attention and discipline and they're darned good dogs. But, if you can stand a little hair, English Setters are a dog that once you've owned one you'll never have any other kind. I'm on #22.

[D3smartie]

You might take a look at a Vizsla.

[pathfinder]

My pointer was a super bird dog, but as me and the wife worked long 12hrs a day she started to be naughty, like diging up the flowers the the wife had planted all over the back yard,and making swiss cheese out of the hedges.She needed that attention ,But she was a excellent at minding ,and she was a super dog,friend,and companion.You cant go wrong w/ a pointer , even if you have kids!

[rimrock]

How do ya say full of energy? E-n-g-l-i-s-h P-o-i-n-t-e-r

If you get a field trail all-age dog you will have ALLOT of dog on your hands, just so you know. EP have fine temperaments typically, sure they tend to be willful but generally speaking like all English breed birddogs they make good companions.

But honestly how much upland hunting will you be doing? Less than 20 days?

[BrianMaguire]

Originally Posted by rimrock

How do ya say full of energy? E-n-g-l-i-s-h P-o-i-n-t-e-r

If you get a field trail all-age dog you will have ALLOT of dog on your hands, just so you know. EP have fine temperaments typically, sure they tend to be willful but generally speaking like all English breed birddogs they make good companions.

But honestly how much upland hunting will you be doing? Less than 20 days?

Yes less than 20. the upland part is my need, the rest is the family.

[rimrock]

Originally Posted by BrianMaguire

Yes less than 20. the upland part is my need, the rest is the family.

Since you anticipate hunting upland just a handful of times a season, then I’d encourage you to consider more than the high-powered birddogs. IMO if your criteria is a good upland dog, good family dog with lower maintenance be it grooming or livability, than isn’t that a Labrador?

Labs do well on pheasant and quail every bit as good as a pointer in the heavy cover. Sure a pointer is better at covering the ground for you on chukars but you can shoot plenty of chukar over a Lab too. I’m not trying to talk you out of a pointing breed, I prefer them myself but they do require more exercise and training on average than the retrieving breeds. Bird seasons are only 4mos of the year, and we live with them for 12mos. If you upland hunt allot or love training dogs then pointing breeds are a good way to go.

Of course an English Setter is always the best choice anyway for any hunting family scenario.

[PacificPointer]

The Pointer will run ANY and EVERY type of terrain we have here in Oregon. Dont be fooled, they shorten up real quick in the woods and I'm running SD and AA blood lines. http://perfectpedigrees.com/search.php?breed=Pointer

Hey I have a video for practically every type of terrain we have in Oregon and on many types of bird. Chuckar to grouse same dog.

If your serious, I know of a guy that has some of the closest Miller blood out there. Contact me..................

Do you want a hunting dog or do you want a Pointer with top of the line blood/linebred??? Take a look at the pedigrees prefixed Pacific on this link, I dont have all of them anymore but have breeding rights and co-own several. The Pacific Storm Front dog has a litter due to whelp soon and I trained him up and traded him for a Peruvian Paso horse. He has field trialed and thrown one set of pups which are smok'in.

PM me for info..........

[PacificPointer]

Up at Willamette Pass



and a video of a run not hunting, we did the lower section of Hardesty up Hwy 58 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vqpxZR3wlVk

[ElkChaser]

I have several friends who own german wired hair pointers. They are calm and pleasant around the house and have nice personalities. Some are real wooly looking and others have short coats. I prefer the look of the shorter coat. They also seem to hunt closer and more calmly than some of the other pointing breeds I've observed. If I were to buy a family/upland dog this would be my choice.

[tikkahunter]

those dogs are wound pretty tight if it is mostly for family dog there is a reason more labs are registered than any other dog year after year they make great pets and good for hunting also

[BrianMaguire]

What about barking?

[Snug 2]

Barking... our three dogs stay in the kennel all day while we are at work. They all wear bark collars and are fine, except when the dang squirrels get on top of the fence and chatter at them. Then they just whine a bunch. Once we are home, the dogs are in the house and pestering each other. I hunted the shorthairs about 10 days last year. The other 350 days they are house pets.

[huntumup]

Ok I feel the need to give my . We have had many Labs, all of them were great, some greater than others, and they all responded well to training and living indoors. Not very often did any of them refuse to bring to me any game that fell to my gun. In my years of owning and working with Labs I have only been around one that tried to take a chunk out of me, really in was my mother, that was not the first time for ole Ruger but it was his last. I'm sorry to get side tracked, I too spend less than 20 days a year in the field, so when my wife and I started our search for a new puppy we picked a female GSP, {she is laying by my chair right now}. We picked the GSP for the short hair, we have had enough of the Lab hair all over the place, the GSP does shed but IMO not as bad as the Lab. Yes she does have a lot of energy but if your like me, it wouln't hurt you to get out side for a little while. One thing I would like to share with you, what ever breed you choose, get them started on the tread mill, it will burn off that energy and help keep your home sane. Good Luck, Shon

[chukarchaser]

I realize that this is purely anecdotal but... I personally know of more labs that exhibit destructive behavior (digging, chewing, etc.) due to lack of exercise than english pointers. It is sad to me to see any of these sporting breeds (retrievers or pointers) not get the exercise they need. I have two English pointers and they definitely need big open spaces to run... but man are they pretty to watch do it.

A word of caution: the average upland bird hunter is not comfortable with the range most english pointers have. Most of them run BIG . Many folks get these high powered dogs and then try to get them to stay within 60 yards of them while hunting open country. If you want a closer working dog, go with a closer working breed, otherwise you are setting yourself (and the dog) up for a lot of frustration.

As far as a family dog, just about every english pointer I've met has had the sweetest disposition. My two english pointers will come and "ask" for affection before my gsp will.

CC

[PacificPointer]

Pointers get a bad rap because the people who own them dont take the time to teach them or do anything with them. Range will only be determined by what you let them do and terrain hunted, yes some bloodlines will consistantly run bigger but you will also get big runners out of every blood line.

My fastest dog who I have field trialed before is also the dog that burns out first, while my po-dunk slowest dog is the one whos still going 2-3 hours later.

And as far a family dogs excellant, a Pointer will match ANY breeds laziness when let in the house. They will bury their heads if they know they are headed outside, and house train within days.

Yes I'm partial to Pointers and I'm also all about de-bunking the myths which the bird dog world is full of. The lore' of the big running dog gets people excited and you will rarely rarely hear of any field trialers who runs chuckar talk about taking their Pointers in the woods. But that is similar to mule deer hunters vs coast range guys.

[stillwater97]

Ever thought about a Brittany Spaniel?

[rozzienoodle]

I own an English Pointer. Great dogs but high strung; very high energy. Good temperaments but they really, really follow their noses, so and while biddable, not the easiest for obedience work. They need to be introduced to the gun PROPERLY; they are far more prone than other breeds to become gun shy. If you are really serious about combining house manners, good with kids and all that, plus a good all rounder for real world hunting, I would look at a Lab or a field-bred Springer.

Originally Posted by BrianMaguire

We are looking at getting a dog. Good for Uplands, Good with Kids, shortish hair. My wife likes English pointers. Any advice?

[PacificPointer]

Originally Posted by rozzienoodle

If you are really serious about combining house manners, good with kids and all that, plus a good all rounder for real world hunting, I would look at a Lab or a field-bred Springer.

Real world hunting ??? My Pointers will stomp on any Lab and springer in a real world hunting in the coast range/Cascades/Great Basin.

[DogZilla15]

Brian:

Hummmmm. You mentioned your wife likes English Pointers but is she the one who'll be hunting with and training the dog???? You also mentioned short coat. Is this truly a coat issue or a shedding issue? If this is a sheddng issue, short coated dogs have nothing to do with shedding. Some longer coated dogs shed far less than most (possibly all) the others. If shedding is the issue consider the GWP/Drahthaar, WPG (Wirehaired Pointing Griffon) or the Pudelpointer. If you need to do some research on these breeds go to versatiledogs.com.

Picking a particular breed is far less important than picking the right breeder.

You must also ask yourself, am I really ready for a hunting dog? Is this something the whole family wants? Getting a serious hunting dog and an EP is a serious hunting dog, is much different than buying a labrador that'll be the family pet and not much more.

[D3smartie]

Originally Posted by PacificPointer

Real world hunting ??? My Pointers will stomp on any Lab and springer in a real world hunting in the coast range/Cascades/Great Basin.

I'd love to see your pointers in the middle of december retrieve a limit of ducks in the morning and a limit of quail or chukars in the afternoon. Now thats some real world hunting.

Brian, as i read through this it becomes even more evident that no matter what the breed, the dog will become an extension of their owner. I'll never own a GSP, an EP, or any other pointing dog with the possible exception of a Vizsla but thats just me and they would never fit my needs very well.
For your situation I wouldnt get a pointer but if thats what you want, and you put in the time with them, you'll have a great dog. if you talk to enough people you'll run across horror stories of every breed, pick one that will give you the best shot of what you are looking for, put your time in with the dog and you should end up with a great companion.
Good luck and i hope to see some puppy pics soon.

[BrianMaguire]

thaks eveyone, great advice. We will mull over it a little further.

[gspdog]

I have a gsp and a lab and have another gsp on the way in a couple weeks. I had the lab first and we hunted upland and waterfowl. The more chukar hunting I did the more I realized I wanted a pointer. I got my gsp and she has been easier in the house, easier to train, and more affectionate than my lab. She definitely has 2 speeds, all out when its time to train or hunt and very calm in the house. That being said I live on some land and my dogs get lots of exercise. The best lab in the world wont hold a candle to a good pointer for chukar. Good luck with getting a pointer. You will be happy, just skick with one of the "high percentage" breeds in my opinion.

[rimrock]

Retrieving is the secondary job for pointers. Locating game and holding it for the gun is their prime job. And the EP is arguably the best at it. It's not the breed I use, but they are very trainable, friendly, good with kids, nice in the home. One just better give them a job to do or like any high powered birddog, they will find one.

Of course we all know the English Setter is the best dog anyway

[Buglemn]

I Have A Gsp, He Is The Most Lovable And Loyal Dog I've Ever Had. He Just Craves My Attenion, And Gets Along WiTh All Dogs.

[Labsforme]

EPs are super dogs.I trialed GSP and had a wide shooting dog.One placed second at the Seattle trial years ago running against EP,English Setters etc.He won the open gun dog in Madras at the Brittany trial.Very good in the house.Pretty wound up though.I had a true all age dog too.The most mellow dog you saw until horses and birds were involved.Both were very tight German import breeding.One an Essers Chick grandson.Getting back to EPs.I had a grand daughter of Millers White Cloud on the bottom and Riggins White Knight on the top.She was sweet and loveable.As you can tell I now mostly waterfowl hunt and have Labs.If you want a good all around dog for both the GWP are great unless you have cats or other critters.You can't go wrong on any well bred dog.Ask to see the parents and biddability.What you put into it you get out of it.

Jeff G

[scottishsetter]

BrianM.; When I lived in Pendleton, there was someone that had an EP that hung out in the back of his PU on the tool box. It was BUFF; I mean BUFF, it looked like a pit bull, every time I saw it I thought it was a Pitt B. Well behaved. Hard wired to the max for birds.!!!
They won't quit hunting, just get in better shape.
Those type of dogs REQUIRE YOU take them out for walks.
My E. Setter/GSH was on a chain restraint for the first two years. If let off he'd go hunt pheasants on all 600AC. of wheat around us. His Mom was a E. Setter Canad. Field Trial Champ. Hard Wired.

Good Luck

[Two Fister]

Tom McGuane wrote a great story named 'Molly" about his EP. You can get a lot of insight about them reading it. A friend of mine had a couple and I hunted over them a few times. The story rings pretty true.

From "Molly"

The dogs are still inside the car, pouring around behind the glass jumping from front to back, back to front, scrambling for traction on the upholstery.

A moment of silence, and Jim (Harrison) says, "Uh, shall we let the dogs out?"

"Sure," I say, almost gaily. I open the front door a little and am rudely slammed back as the two evil hounds vault for the forest like voltage jumping a gap.

Of all instruments, the Acme Thunderer seems the least appropriate for playing dirges, but over and again Jim tried, I tried. A bluish pallor fell across our faces. From the distance the yapping of the fun couple rang in the swamps.

...Later in the day the dogs came back to relax and warm up in the car. We sealed them inside the Land Rover, then wedged our way through the doors to be sure neither of them tried anything cheap like another forty-mile-per-hour swamp crossing. But the dogs were content to save themselves in the back, studying migrating songbirds high in the sky through the window and listening to the radio.

From much later in their hunting career:

As I get ready Molly stays close to me, prancing like a cheerleader. A small cloud of butterflies dances across the tractor ruts and Molly makes after them like a rocking horse but returns to my side when I whistle.

All right, ready to go. "Find some birds," I tell her. She gives me one last look, as though from the cockpit of a fighter plane, and pours it on. I don't believe this. My heart begins to sink as she ticks off the first 880 and I realize nothing has changed.

I walk gloomily along a shelterbelt of Lombardy populars with only the vaguest reference to the shrinking liver-and-white form in the distance. At the far edge of the field I see her stop, lock up on point, then shelfishly pounce into the middle of the birds. Gloom. Gloom. Pheasants scatter. But wait - my God! They're flying this way.

Like the lowest kind of dry gulch artist, I crouch in the hedgerow. The pheasants keep coming, Molly yelping along behind. At fifty yards I rise to the balls of my feet. At twenty I stand up out of the brambles and...shoot a double!...I scramble around to gather them up before my dog can rend and eat them.

I hang the birds from my belt. Their rich, satisfying odor keeps man's best friend trotting along at my side. Now and again I hear her teeth click lightly. There is a spring I know near the thorn grove where I gather some wild, peppery watercress for our game dinner.

At last that perfect symbiosis between a man and his dog! I finally feel that Molly is as good a hunter as I am.

If you can find the book "An Outside Chance" by Tom McGuane it's full of great fishing, hunting and cutting horse short stories.

TF

[scottishsetter]

Excellent! "...her teeth click lightly.."
That is the moment..

[PacificPointer]

Originally Posted by Labsforme

EPs are super dogs.I trialed GSP and had a wide shooting dog.One placed second at the Seattle trial years ago running against EP,English Setters etc.He won the open gun dog in Madras at the Brittany trial.Very good in the house.Pretty wound up though.I had a true all age dog too.The most mellow dog you saw until horses and birds were involved.Getting back to EPs.I had a grand daughter of Millers White Cloud on the bottom and Riggins White Knight on the top.She was sweet and loveable.

I have a Miller bred female who is the same way, mellow in the house and hell bent on the ground.

[Spoiled Daddy]

I don't hunt my dogs, but have had both an GSP and a EP for house dogs. We just purchased another GSP pup.

Our oldest daughter has CP and is in a wheelchair. Our original GSP was her constant companion, was good with other kids and dogs and loved to ride in our boat. With zero training, he would constantly point on birds in the yard. He was very loyal, would not wander from the yard and learned voice commands at a very early age.

We now have an adult EP. He is much more high strung than our GSP and sheds much more. We exercise him regularly and have a rather large yard, so he can get some exercise when he wants. He too is very loyal and stays close to all three of our girls. He likes to ride in the boat, but gets sea sick about as quick as we hit our first swell when riding over the bar. We have threatened to have his tail bobbed, as he can knock small children down with his tail when he gets excited. Our EP does not like cold weather at all. He is only about 5 years old and has terrible arthritis in his hips and back, thus we are introducing a new puppy to the girls now. Neither the past GSP or the current EP make good watch dogs. Both were lovers, not fighters and would probably sleep through a burglar ransacking the house.

We hope to have the same qualities in this new pup. He seems very smart, is learning quickly and loves to sleep near the girls in their room.

Again, we don't hunt, but enjoy these dogs for the reasons stated above. I have hunted in the past with GSP's and EP's owned by friends. These dogs were very birdy, but none of them liked working in the cold weather.

Just my .

the Spoiled Daddy