Ready to talk about 2003 rockfish problem?

Mike Gilchrist · 06-10-2002, 01:49 PM

This is a continuation of the "Rockfish Trouble" thread.

I am scheduled to be in the greater Portland area on Saturday June 15 at 1:00 PM in the afternoon with RFA executive director Jim Donofrio. Some of you have expressed interest in developing a more coastwide approach to the upcoming cutbacks expected for coastal groundfish fisheries next year. This would be a good time to gather information, discuss local plans, and dicuss the future federal legislation that will be required to address this and future problems associated with overfishing by the industrial fishing fleet.

I have not specified a location yet but have a standing recomendation of Jantzen Beach. My knowledge of Oregon geography is limited to the major cities so if this is not a good location (example, I can't get there in 3 hours from approx Tacoma Washington) I you all can point me in the right direction. I can travel up to 3+1/2 hours, but would have to push the time back to 1:30.

email: thinker@gamefishin.every1.net
phone: (253)350-5426

Mike Gilchrist · 06-11-2002, 04:54 PM

An update:

Location is set, Double tree at Janzen Beach. (I actually know that area, just did not realize it was called Janzen beach). I know there are two Double Tree's. We will be at the one with the restaurant in the back next to the river, where the PMFC meets. It has a coffee shop in it on the left as you walk in the main entrance and the restaurant straight back. As it turns out, Janice Green will be joining us. We will have the most current and update information available to us then. Only one other change, the subject will not be rockfish the entire meeting a there will people there with various interests.

Please contact me before hand if you will wanting to join us.

thinker@gamefishin.every1.net
253-350-5426

Threemuch · 06-12-2002, 05:39 AM

Wish I could make it, but I am stuck in Boston this week.

HawgJaw · 06-12-2002, 06:29 AM

Mike, What time on Saturday?

OceanBlue · 06-12-2002, 06:47 AM

Pilar says he's had no internet access while on the road. He wanted me to let y'all know that he WILL be back in town and able to make the meeting on Saturday. :grin:

Mike Gilchrist · 06-12-2002, 06:51 AM

Meeting time is 1:00 .

Mr. Fisherman · 06-13-2002, 12:06 PM

I'll plan on being there.

How long is the meeting scheduled for?
What room/area of the doubletree by the river is the meeting to be held?

Thanks for your efforts.

Check your email,

Ray

Mike Gilchrist · 06-13-2002, 11:40 PM

We need to be out of their by 3:00 or at least 3:30 because we have 2 more meetings scheduled that day.

Just meet by the restaurant in the back.

Fishplay · 06-14-2002, 04:31 PM

Mike
I'll be there. 1300 hours. I had planned on fishing the rockpile tomorrow but this is important.
I guess it's like this. Make the time to get organized and informed now or find ourselves with all kinds of time on our hands later!
If ya got any more of those RFA T shirts left in large bring em. I really liked the one with the pocket. I think I can muster a contributuion.
Greg

Pilar · 06-14-2002, 06:05 PM

Hi,
I'll be there ... what about the rest of you?

Are you going to learn how to fish for carp or learn to golf when they shut down the ocean to recreational fishing?

I thought so .........

Mike Gilchrist · 06-14-2002, 11:13 PM

Just a little update, since their are two doubletree's at the same location if you don't find us at one, go to the other. At this time I am even a little confused as to which one we are supposed to be at. I found out that both of them have the same interior layout so there is no way to desribe them. One is upstream of the bridge and one downstream. They have both had PMFC meetings in the past so that does not help. At this point I believe that we will be at the Columbia Doubletree, the one on the west side of the freeway, since this side last held the PMFC meeting. The Janzen beach is on the east side of the freeway.

OceanBlue · 06-18-2002, 09:17 PM

What I have personally heard from Brinckman himself is that the focus HAS been narrow he agrees that he should "do a story focusing on recreational fisheries". Recreational fishers have a much broader economic impact than most folks realize, yet have virtually no impact on the environment... We need to keep this in perspective. And educate, educate, educate....

Mark your calendars for July 12... Make a difference.

We need to keep in focus here that it isn't our fun that they're taking away... it is that near-shore fisheries are in danger as long as ODFW doesn't have a management plan, that we don't have adequate representation and that the coastal economy will suffer tremendously as we are forced to other areas while commercial fishers are allowed to continue the destruction... only this time, near shore.

RFA Janice · 06-19-2002, 08:19 PM

Rockfish future is looking pretty grim from PFMC meeting this week so far. It all hinges on how much yelloweye the scientists and the Council decide we can harvest without threatening the fish with extinction. If it is very little, we won't be able to do our halibut fishing. If it is like last year (about 13.5 metric tons coastwide) we will be able to do pretty well. It isn't clear what the proposed amounts will be, but it isn't looking real good.

Down California way, the bocaccio situation is so bad that most commercial fishing will be closed on July 1, until they can get some restrictions in place, probably by Oct. Recs will be restricted to less than 60 feet on July 1, and the livefish fishery will also be held to less tehan 60 feet, when they get it back open--which will take some paperwork time to do. So we are better off than some folks by a long shot.

I have been learning about what our ODFW may propose for protecting our nearshore rockfish and lingcod stocks. Will let you know more as I learn more, but it looks like we should plan to work closely with them, just asking in a polite way for a nearshore plan rather than doing a "demonstration." I think ODFW is reallly trying to figure out a way to get some restrictions in place so that we won't get wiped out by commercail fishing (or our own gradually increasing numbers). Janice

Threemuch · 06-19-2002, 08:52 PM

What Janice says about boccacio is hard to believe. As little as three years ago we would catch these fish easily out on Cordell banks out of Bodega Bay. Probably 25-40% of our catch was boccacio to 15 pounds. Hard to believe that it went that far south that fast due to overfishing, when you consider that Cordell banks has been pounded as a bottom fishing spot for the last 30 years commercially and recreationally. And we seem to be able to easily catch yelloweye and canary up here.

Has anyone taken a close look at the science used to determine the status of these stocks? Is it posssible that the perceived reduction in these stocks is due to some sort of cyclical migration to other locales or something else? Deep water trawling is not new, and niether is deep water recreational fishing. Why did these fish hit crisis time so fast, when a few years ago there were no restrictions and they were (and maybe still are) so easy to catch?

I really question it all. Even if they have accurate methods to determine population now (which I doubt) they didn't have it from 100 years ago before men started to utilize this resource. I will ask again, has anyone challenged the science, or is it irrefutable?

One thing I know is true is that if they close deep water fishing, they must set up serious commercial restrictions on the inshore, or all the shallow water fish will be gone in a year as the displaced commercial fisherman target the inshore species. I can take reduced take for recreational fishermen, but the ******* better give it up too.

I can picture it now. No deep water fishing. Every decent inshore spot set up as a marine park. Every other rock on the coast a sterile wasteland. It's really depressing.

OceanBlue · 06-20-2002, 06:27 AM

Thanks for the update, Janice. Regardless of which way this goes I would like to think that we can keep a positive spin on things where the ODFW is concerned. Assuming we move foward with a rally (rather than "demonstration"), we could certainly rally in support of a management plan that is quickly yet carefully designed and implemented.

Thoughts?

black magic · 06-20-2002, 06:52 AM

Threemuch,

I asked that same question about how do they know how many fish there are. The answer is, it is 'best available science' which is that of the fisheries people. If no one else has any population studies this science is what they go with, even if it was done with little or no accuracy. In order to contest these studies you must have studies of your own which you must fund yourself. So we are forced to use this data whether we like it or not, or until we can find a way to fund a 'second opinion' study.

06-20-2002, 07:54 AM

Threemuch and black magic,

Rock cod are slow growing fish and the 15 lb silver gray's (boccacio) you were catching were probably 30 year old fish. When a longliner puts several hundred or thousand hooks on a reef it doesn't take long to deplete the breeding population. Sport fishing pressure can do the same, I have seen this in Alaska with yellow eye and shortraker.

As for

"best available science"

, it is an excuse for the federal biologists to get away with sloppy science (as per the National Academy of Scientests)!!!! DON'T TRUST THE FEDERAL BIOLOGISTS!!!!! If they have an agenda they will not hesitate to use "bad biology" to obtain their goals. When the Klamath Basin Sucker (Mullet) was listed they didn't do any research in the majority of its habitat. They just listed it because they wanted to reduce the amount of farm land in the Klamath Basin and give the Klamath Tribe another tool to help them get the Winema National Forest for themselves (we only paid them for it twice already

). Don't allow NMFS to list these fish without input and reasearch from the Oregon and Washington Departments of Fish and Game. Don't allow the Feds to regulate fisheries within the 3 mile zone! DON"T TRUST THE NMFS!

[ 06-20-2002, 08:57 AM: Message edited by: Keta ]

Threemuch · 06-20-2002, 09:25 AM

I think a silvergray is actually a different species that is very similar. Boccacio are pinkish in color.

http://www.afsc.noaa.gov/groundfish/...s/Boccacio.htm

The thing is, if boccacio are endangered, what about tree or flag rockfish? Those are really really rare compared to boccacio, canaries and yelloweye. I have only seen 1 flag in my whole life. Maybe they were common 75 years ago.

KB

06-20-2002, 10:51 AM

Threemuch,
You might be right on the silvergrey rockfish but I think what we called silvergreys in Alaska were boccacio. Gray backs and pink to pinkish white bellies. Deeper reefs stacked with them in the 5-10 lb range with the deeper fish to 20 lbs. :smile:

OceanBlue · 06-27-2002, 07:41 AM

Info on July 12 ODFW meeting...

Slight change in plan. New information indicates that we should have about a dozen, maybe 2 dozen representatives at this meeting. A couple of people will be able to speak. Tone is very important... it will be important to remain focused, positive and yes, politically correct.

If you would like to participate:
1) Post here and/or send me your email address and phone number
2) Please plan to meet early in the morning 7/12 for a strategy session - we should be done by noon.
3) Let me know if you'd like to speak

Mark your calendars for 8/9... we will need all hands on deck for that meeting.

For July 12, the following have committed their support.

*********
Black Magic
Bob b
Bugleman
Mr. Fisherman
Fishplay
Krystalflash
Mark Mc
Pilar
Puffin's Crew
Threemuch
Trick

Anyone else?

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Gregotis98 · 06-29-2002, 08:40 AM

I may have missed the info, but please give specific info on times and place for meetings.

black magic · 06-29-2002, 09:29 AM

The meeting begins at 8:00 AM at the portland HQ of ODFW on July 12. Look at the 'meetings area on the ODFW website for more details.

black magic · 06-29-2002, 09:32 AM

Double post. Ignore

[ 06-29-2002, 10:53 AM: Message edited by: black magic ]

OceanBlue · 06-29-2002, 09:12 PM

Gregotis: If you wish, I can add you to the mailing list I've started for this event. Just send me email with your name and contact info. Thanks for your support!

:grin:

Pilar · 07-01-2002, 09:04 AM

Have any of you heard anything on the newsmedia about the restrictions in California?

I finally heard a 10 second soundbite on the radio this morning, the day the sanctions take effect.

Where is the media on this? Do they even know?

I must emphasize that is why a strong showing at the Friday 12 July meeting of the ODFW in Portland is so important.

If we could get the attention of the media maybe the rest of the public could get some kind of clue about this whole matter.

As it is now the media is ignoring this problem and the public is uninformed. If you plan on attending how about a post stating your commitment to appear.

Thanking you in advance ........

Threemuch · 07-01-2002, 12:52 PM

I think the media is missing because 90% or more of the public don't care. Most don't fish. The ones that do, 80% or more are freshwater only.

The media gets paid by advertisers, and advertisers want story's printed that relate to as much of the public as possible. Sad, but true.

I don't know a way around it, it's impossible to get people fired up about fisheries they didn't even know existed.

KB

OceanBlue · 07-03-2002, 04:50 AM

New info and how to help... Click Here

Deepslayer · 07-03-2002, 01:28 PM

Thanks Pilar's Mate. I wrote some letters today. I will mail them as soon as the post office here gets some more new stamps in.
,Ed

RFA Janice · 07-04-2002, 08:22 PM

Want the commercials coming up and fishing out your nearshore areas? The only areas you may have open except for salmon next year?

Went to the meeting at Port Orford. The commercial fishermen there weren't too pleased with the draft Interim Fish Management Plan.

High points: 1) They didn't realize that the whole purpose of dividing the state in two was that north of the midpoint, all the nearshore fish are fully utilized by the sport fishery, just as south of the line all the fish are fully utilized by the livefish fishery. They wanted the option of coming up north and fishing that "virgin" territory. Didn't get the excessive fishing picture at all.

2) A fish buyer got up and said, as nearly as I can quote him: "Two years ago you used to bring in 700 lbs. of cabezon on a good day. Now you bring in 200 lbs. on a good day. You used to bring in 400 lbs. of china cod. Now 30 to 40 lbs. is what comes in. And the fish are smaller. This just can't go on."