The Future of Transportation

[happybrew]

With all of the talk about gas mileage and different vehicles, I thought I'd put in my . Plug-in electric. It's the way to go. The battery technology is getting better all the time. My Zap car will pay for itself in fuel savings. It costs 1 to 2 cents per mile to run it. Right now I'm using lead-acid batteries. When those wear out I'll replace them with lithium iron phosphate batteries if the price has come down on them, and I'll likely never need to replace them gain. Right now it won't completely replace a gasoline vehicle, but give it ten years and the technology should be there. Unless I'm hitting the freeway, I use this. Gasoline will only get more expensive, and eventually run out. Then we can either pedal, put all our food in the gas tank, or continue driving with already proven technology. The basic technology is over a hundred years old. It's simple. The battery technology to meet current expectations is getting better all the time.

happybrew

[Thumper]

HB --- My only concern is the safety of driving that thing.

When a 6,500 pound GVW SUV (Toyota Sequoia) hits your 1,441 pound GVW ZAP head-on, what are the chances for the family?

[Thumper]

Double post

[happybrew]

Originally Posted by Thumper

HB --- My only concern is the safety of driving that thing.

When a 6,500 pound GVW SUV (Toyota Sequoia) hits your 1,441 pound GVW ZAP head-on, what are the chances for the family?

That is a problem for that particular model. It's not a problem that can't be fixed, though. The technology is there, it's just a matter of applying it. When more American manufacturers get on board, the safety factor will improve dramatically. Some of them are already on board.

http://www.milesev.com/

http://www.zenncars.com/

http://www.myersmotors.com/

http://www.getkurrent.com/home.html

BTW, the family goes in the minivan, except to church on Sunday because we don't all fit in the minivan at the same time. If you can make a crash-safe gasoline vehicle, you can make a crash safe electric one. They just aren't doing it. The small companies and the Chinese are pioneering the battery technology. If American auto makers would jump on board, I think the market for electric vehicles would expand greatly.

Imagine a world of electric vehicles charged by solar and nuclear with fast-charge technology. Third world dictators would no longer be able to pad their bank accounts, and our national security would be vastly improved. Biodiesel could be reserved for heavy haul, and expand the rail network and utilize electric locomotives. BTW, electric locomotives are already in use, and there is no need to build new technology. It's only the fear factor and nobody wanting to jump in until everyone else does that keeps it from happening right now.

happybrew

[Thumper]

Well, good luck in an accident.

[Bait O' Eggs]

Havent you spawned like about a dozen kids

I dont see them fitting in that little thing

[BalouSC]

Thats pretty cool! Some of the guys I work with over here are from Germany. They say it is common to see hydrogen powered cars running around. This is the technology that I am looking forward to. I do like your electric car though. It would be great for commuting to and from work or running errands. How much does it affect your electric bill? Balou

[Dave G]

The State Fair always has something like that, they are pretty cool. Once I get my next boat I want to get one.

[happybrew]

Originally Posted by Bait O' Eggs

Havent you spawned like about a dozen kids

I dont see them fitting in that little thing

Actually, BOE, you can fit a dozen kids in one.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=Q1igjpt63EQ

happybrew

[happybrew]

Originally Posted by BalouSC

Thats pretty cool! Some of the guys I work with over here are from Germany. They say it is common to see hydrogen powered cars running around. This is the technology that I am looking forward to. I do like your electric car though. It would be great for commuting to and from work or running errands. How much does it affect your electric bill? Balou

Not much. Since January when I bought it I've put 2000 miles on it, which translates to between $20 and $40.

happybrew

[fishinjay]

Originally Posted by Thumper

Well, good luck in an accident.

This kind of thinking is how we got into this mess. Nobody needs a 6500lb suv that get 11mpg to commute 7 miles back and forth to work by themselfes everyday. Im not saying throw safety out the window, im saying that there are other things that are more important in a vehicle that crash test ratings. You cant live your hole life worried about getting in a car accident, and buy the biggest gas hog on the road becouse its "SAFE". What about motorcycles? Should they be banned because you might not survive an accident on one? Its to bad automakers took the path they did from the start. Automobiles are huge, heavy, and reguire alot of energy to get moving and keep moving. Poeple need to think outside the box if things are ever going to improve. Why cant people commute in small electric singe seat vehicles?

I dont mean to offend anyone. I just think that no matter how you slice it, while driving your surounded by thousands of pounds of metal and traveling at speeds up to 60 or 70 miles an hour. your going to have problems if you get into an accident whether your in a geo metro or a semi.

I think your car is cool Happybrew. I have not seen those before, were did you get it?

[happybrew]

Originally Posted by fishinjay

This kind of thinking is how we got into this mess. Nobody needs a 6500lb suv that get 11mpg to commute 7 miles back and forth to work by themselfes everyday. Im not saying throw safety out the window, im saying that there are other things that are more important in a vehicle that crash test ratings. You cant live your hole life worried about getting in a car accident, and buy the biggest gas hog on the road becouse its "SAFE". What about motorcycles? Should they be banned because you might not survive an accident on one? Its to bad automakers took the path they did from the start. Automobiles are huge, heavy, and reguire alot of energy to get moving and keep moving. Poeple need to think outside the box if things are ever going to improve. Why cant people commute in small electric singe seat vehicles?

Im not trying to **** anyone off.

I think your car is cool Happybrew. I have not seen those before, were did you get it?

I bought it at Electric Wheels, Inc. on 12th street in Salem. There is also a dealership in Grants Pass that modifies it from a 72 volt to an 84 volt with an extra battery and upgraded controller for better acceleration and range. There is also a dealership in Portland, I believe.

Amen to the SUV's. And the vehicle registers and insures as a motorcycle. My vehicle is a minimal threat to another vehicle. An SUV will squash me and any other small car. But I anticipate seeing fewer and fewer SUV's on the road as gas prices rise. But you can get killed just walking. Last year, I was almost hit crossing the street on foot by a speeding semi that ran a red light coming around a turn at least five seconds after the light turned red for him. He missed me by inches. Not even a tap on the brakes, that tiny-brained wiper of other people's bottoms. You can die just walking.

happybrew

[PapaHog]

I want one.

I saw one that had the two wheels on the front on the freeway going 60 mph. Pretty cool.

[Point-of-Sale Clerk]

I have a Yamaha IT 175 frame in my back yard with no motor and tranny. I keep looking at it thinking how cool it would be to have an electric motorcycle. I have looked at the Etec Briggs motors but have not been fully bitten by the electric bug. Maybe if Gas goes over $5.00 a gal I will.
Congrats on your electric ride… cool

[happybrew]

We need air. We need water. We need food. But we want SUV's. And that's not a bad thing. It is good to have choices, and good to live in a prosperous enough country that we can drive them. Heck, I'd like to have a Hummer, but long term it's not going to happen. It's just not sustainable. I don't see anybody here saying laws should be passed against them. To each his own. But economics are going to eventually drive different sorts of vehicle into the marketplace.

The greenies want to make everything either mandatory or illegal, but that's the wrong answer. Market forces will naturally and efficiently drive product development. It's a free country. Drive what you want. But my grandkids likely won't be able to drive a Hummer. Unless, of course, it's electric.

happybrew

[happybrew]

Originally Posted by PapaHog

I want one.

I saw one that had the two wheels on the front on the freeway going 60 mph. Pretty cool.

I would guess it was probably a Myers NmG.

[ampersat]

It's the US, you can buy whatever you want. You can also buy what you need. You can also expect someone else to have an opinion regarding your wants and needs and to express that opinion publicly. You're also quite free to tell those same people to bug off, but don't expect that to actually motivate them to bug off.

I'd be curious myself to know exactly why anyone needs a 6500lb SUV that gets 11mpg to commute 7 miles back and forth to work by themselves everyday.

I've been thinking about an electric vehicle of some sort but can't justify it just yet. Frankly, I should be spending more time riding my bike and depending on what my next gas bill looks like I just may do that.

Out of curiosity, why do they have to make them look like that? (you know what I mean) Can't they just look like a regular car? I don't really want to draw attention to myself driving some futuristic three wheeled bubble car; I just want to go the store to get some groceries or go to work like any other normal person.

[SOL]

There are only about 6-7 MILLION car accidents a year....

I like your chances in that Oh well.... You show big oil!!!

[GraphiteZen]

Originally Posted by ampersat

Out of curiosity, why do they have to make them look like that? (you know what I mean) Can't they just look like a regular car? I don't really want to draw attention to myself driving some futuristic three wheeled bubble car; I just want to go the store to get some groceries or go to work like any other normal person.

I feel the same way. Have these people not realized that if they made them lower to the ground, sleeker like a sportscar they would sell much better and get even greater mileage? Sure, you have to be traveling at close to the max speed of this type of vehicle for wind resistance to really make a difference but still...
If the body didn't look like the front half of a VW van you just might be able to afford yourself a 4th wheel and get a lot more stability in corners along with greater impact protection. How much does a Mazda Miata weigh? They scoot pretty good for a low powered 4 banger and aren't half bad on the eyes.

This is a pretty interesting idea:
http://www.flexcar.com/

[GraphiteZen]

Originally Posted by SOL

There are only about 6-7 MILLION car accidents a year....

I like your chances in that Oh well.... You show big oil!!!

And about 6 million of those are single car accidents, 5 mph rear endings at intersections, parking lot mishaps or various other minor fender benders.

[ampersat]

How much does a Mazda Miata weigh?

I've been looking at electric conversion kits and this would be one of my platforms of choice. Next choice would be a Honda Civic hatchback.

[happybrew]

Originally Posted by ampersat

Out of curiosity, why do they have to make them look like that? (you know what I mean) Can't they just look like a regular car? I don't really want to draw attention to myself driving some futuristic three wheeled bubble car; I just want to go the store to get some groceries or go to work like any other normal person.

They are three-wheeled so that they can be classified as a motorcycle. Without that classification they would need to be registered as a neighborhood electric vehicle or low speed vehicle with a max speed of 25 mph and can only go on streets with a 35 mph or less speed limit. Because it registers as a motorcycle, it gets around that classification issue. It's a regulatory thing. The other option would be for a small startup company to shell out around $10 million for DOT safety testing, which most of them can't afford.

This is why I would like to see the big auto makers jump on board with this, because they are sufficiently capitalized to absorb that cost and produce enough freeway legal vehicles to make a profit.

[WaterDog]

Originally Posted by ampersat

I'd be curious myself to know exactly why anyone needs a 6500lb SUV that gets 11mpg to commute 7 miles back and forth to work by themselves everyday.

Just a couple of things to ponder for a bit......

That big SUV might be used to pull a boat or travel trailer on the weekends and on vacations. It also might be used to transport 5 to 8 bodies to baseball or soccer practice a couple time a week. Can an electric car or econo box do that? The rest of the time it is used as a commuter becasue that is what they have.

I have an f-350 diesel. Do I need it? Yup, because it's what drags around my 8000+ pound boat. Show me an electic, hybird, or econo car that can do that? Up until 4 months ago I used the f-350 as my "commuter". It's what I had. 4 months ago I parked it and now it just sits in the driveway and I call it a lawn ornament. I only use it when I have too. I concider myself fortunate that I have the ablity to buy something else that gets 2x the mpg's and is still fucntional for my lifestyle. The last time I checked, not every one is fortunate enough to be able to have an SUV or big pickup just sitting around to be used only when needed.

When someone starts questioning why you "need" a particular vehicle, your questioning their lifestyle and your suggesting they should change that. While I can certainly agree the "need" may be greater for some than others, these fuel prices will flush that "need" out.

[Pilar]

Happybrew ... nice post, thanks buddy for leading the way. I have been looking at hybrids. The problem is they almost all are imports. What I really want is domestic and hybrid/plug in. Use the overnight charge for short range and the hybrid for longer trips. Oh and a rack for the 150 Qt cooler full of TUNA!

The news is full of automaker plant slowdowns and closures. They will get the message soon.

[butwhymalemodels]

There's an electric car charging station near 2nd and Main SW in Portland that ALWAYS has a car plugged in. They certainly are strange looking for now, but I like seeing them there. Never have seen one driving, though.

[ko]

http://www.phoenixmotorcars.com/vehi...hoenix-sut.php

There are more and more of these kind of cars coming out every year.

If they can make trains that travel at 200+ miles an hour, I am sure that they can make a truck that will pull a boat.

An electric vehicle is my next big purchase. Coupled with my solar array and a waste veggie oil powered generator I won't need to pay for fuel.

[Eaglecap]

What is the range of one of these cars? I don't know anything about them. I have heard only 40 miles between charges but i think they were talking about a car that is electric and can switch to gas.
Anybody know?

[Chromaflage]

Will it tow my 25' boat? Therein lies MY problem. The new Hybrid Tahoe will only tow 6000 lbs., which is not even enough margin for me.

[Smoked Salmon]

Originally Posted by ko

http://www.phoenixmotorcars.com/vehi...hoenix-sut.php

There are more and more of these kind of cars coming out every year.

If they can make trains that travel at 200+ miles an hour, I am sure that they can make a truck that will pull a boat.

An electric vehicle is my next big purchase. Coupled with my solar array and a waste veggie oil powered generator I won't need to pay for fuel.

Speaking of trains, when can we expect more passenger rail service? With even primary checked bags starting to be fee-based, I'm about one more excuse from never flying again.

[OutdoorBum]

These rants about oil are getting old. Don't get me wrong, I'm affected like everyone else and I'm certainly not "holier than thou", but we made this bed and now we're sleeping in it. We are the ONLY industrialized nation (besides Canada) that uses oil more for transportation than heat and power. And... 2/3 of our consumption is for transportation, and 2/3 of that is for gasoline, with the rest for jet fuel, etc. We have put these demand mechanics in place, and what did we think was going to happen? Is oil artificially high? Yes. But is it a limited natural resource that will continue to diminish and will that in turn cause prices to increase over time due to fundamental supply/demand? Yes. Have I contributed to it all with a one ton truck and a 460 engine that tows my boat? You bet. It stinks, but unless we ALL change how we drive and consume oil, its not gonna change.

[Bird Dog]

I saw a program on Discovery that featured a company in socal who will take whatever car you have, pull out the motor and fuel tank, and replace it with an electric motor and batteries. They were doing a 65 Nova for Anthony Kietes(sp) of Red Hot Chili Peppers.

I have both the 7000lb truck that is now parked (400 miles this year) and a commuter car that is a 97 Jetta. Jetta's got 120k on it and by the time the motor is ready for rebuild I'm hoping i can convert it to electric. That should be in the next 5 years, then I'll have the safety built in already.

If they can come up with an electric power plant that'll tow the boats and trailers, I'll buy it. Fact is to enjoy life the way most of us here do, we need those rigs.

C'mon Big 3! Figure out a solution we can live with!

Bird Dog

[Pilar]

These rants about oil are getting old.

THEN WAKE UP AND CHANGE IT!!!!!

The sheeple are alseep. You get the government you deserve. We got the government that is controlled by corporate interests. They are making alot of money right now ... by design.

If that does not infuriate you then you are not paying attention.

[happybrew]

Originally Posted by Eaglecap

What is the range of one of these cars? I don't know anything about them. I have heard only 40 miles between charges but i think they were talking about a car that is electric and can switch to gas.
Anybody know?

Mine has an advertised range of 25 miles with lead acid deep cycle batteries, but that is overstated, and is based on 30 mph straight run with no starts and stops, running the battery to empty which can damage it. Realistic, safe range is 15-17 miles in stop and go traffic, and then performance is degraded. It's good for a short commute. I've put 50 miles on it in a day charging between trips with no problems. I figure I could make it to Eugene if I brought along a generator and had 12 or more hours to kill! Lithium batteries offer much greater range, and next generation EV's coming out later this year will have 100+ mile range.

[OutdoorBum]

Originally Posted by Pilar

THEN WAKE UP AND CHANGE IT!!!!!

The sheeple are alseep. You get the government you deserve. We got the government that is controlled by corporate interests. They are making alot of money right now ... by design.

If that does not infuriate you then you are not paying attention.

I agree with what you are saying, and my wife and i bought a hybrid last year and love it...just doing one little thing...but I still own the gas hog truck too. I guess my point was why complain when WE made this mess, you know? As my quote said, the "rants" are getting old....I'm weathering the situation fairly well and don't plan on doing much more to change it....bad as that may sound.

[fishinjay]

I think i was misunderstood a little, i have no problem with suvs and trucks. I have a 1 ton diesel superduty for towing my boat and hunting trips. But i also have a toyota beater car for commuting to and from work and running around town. I just think it would be silly and very expensive given the price of diesel to commute with my truck or anything like it. And as nice as it would be to drive my truck everyday it just doesnt make sense to do so. Thats why i got a car that gets 35mpg to drive around. And if i could afford it right now i would get an electric car. Maybe down the road. I dont want to use up all the oil i can as fast as i can so im trying to do something, even if its just a little bit it helps.

Two years ago we bought my wife a TDI jetta (TDI is a diesel if you didnt know) and it gets 50 to 55 MPG. This in my opinion is the most fuel efficient car I could get in the US at the time. Well the TDI beetle does a little better but i was mainly refering to the all the TDI powered cars (jetta,beetle,golf). I still would like a plug-in electric though. I know i might hear it for not buying domestic, and i wanted to but American automakers are not getting there act together and producing efficient cars. Lets face it they have not made any progress in the last 10 to 20 years. There were cars in the early 90s that got 45 MPG (subaru justy, geo metro, ford aspire) and that is about the same as what hybrids are getting now.

Sorry if i offended anyone, i just get bummed out sometimes about the condition of things here on planet earth.

Cant we just hunt and fish all the time That would be alot easier on me.

[happybrew]

Originally Posted by Bird Dog

I saw a program on Discovery that featured a company in socal who will take whatever car you have, pull out the motor and fuel tank, and replace it with an electric motor and batteries. They were doing a 65 Nova for Anthony Kietes(sp) of Red Hot Chili Peppers.

I have both the 7000lb truck that is now parked (400 miles this year) and a commuter car that is a 97 Jetta. Jetta's got 120k on it and by the time the motor is ready for rebuild I'm hoping i can convert it to electric. That should be in the next 5 years, then I'll have the safety built in already.

If they can come up with an electric power plant that'll tow the boats and trailers, I'll buy it. Fact is to enjoy life the way most of us here do, we need those rigs.

C'mon Big 3! Figure out a solution we can live with!

Bird Dog

I saw a Geo Metro conversion on E-Bay once. I think there is a company in Portland that will do conversions, but I don't recall the name. Google is your friend on that. It can get spendy, though. You don't have the economies of scale and bulk purchasing power of a large auto maker.