Do you THINK blacktail and mule deer cross?

[speedshooterxt]

This is a subject talked about ALOT at work

Do blacktail and mule deer cross???

Is there such a thing as a Benchleg?

Vote for what you think, and post anythoughts of why you think they do or do not....if you have any REAL study answers please post those as well.

[SImudBogger]

pretty sure its a proven fact. I don't have any literature to back this up, but i know someone on here will. Hunt the white river unit or down near k falls and you will see some deer that have features of both species.

[Charlie Storey]

The mule deer in the Metolius area that summer up along the P.C.T. between Jefferson and Three Fingered Jack have some blacktail in them, and I once saw a blacktail doe in the same area that appeared to have a little mulie in her. I wouldn't call them "benchlegs" as they are all perfectly proportioned deer. The best deer meat I've ever had. I really wonder if "benchlegs" really exist. If they do they must be caused by some mutation, but not cross-breeding.

[12pulls]

Klickat deer are cross bread

[westcoastsrt4]

http://www.fs.fed.us/r6/centralorego...s/hoofed.shtml

gov seems to


and this site has some very interesting info on where muleys came from

http://www.blacktailcountry.com/html/blkpage.htm

[BlacktailBowhunter]

Originally Posted by westcoastsrt4

http://www.fs.fed.us/r6/centralorego...s/hoofed.shtml

gov seems to


and this site has some very interesting info on where muleys came from

http://www.blacktailcountry.com/html/blkpage.htm

Good links, thank.

[huntinfool]

I voted yes, but I believe you won't find many on the west side of the mountains until you get down around Ashland. One of my biggest pet peevs is when you see someone scream "benchleg" just because it's a big blacktail.

[Sneekee]

Yes mule deer and black tails have cross bread.Its nothing thats inpossible.

[Bill Monroe]

Been watching the mixtures out of The Dalles this spring during turkey season. A retired guide from The Dalles (Glenn Summers) said the mixes exist all the way to the John Day. Most telling is the tail...some with the skinny white base like the mule, others with a combo and the rest with the wide black of the blacktail...genetically, they're all in the mule deer family.

[nakoa]

if anyone has hunted the high cascades we have all seen them, big body short legs big racks. that is why anything east of I-5 and west of HWY97 is not supposed to be allowed in the record books.

[ORsouthpaw]

I'm sure of that most of the deer on either side of the cascade slope (Between I5 and Hwy 97 are considered to be benchleg. My Father in law took a nice 4x5 in the Mckenzie unit and B&C wouldn't accept him because they considered it a non typical hybrid.

[Mossyhorn]

Originally Posted by nakoa

if anyone has hunted the high cascades we have all seen them, big body short legs big racks. that is why anything east of I-5 and west of HWY97 is not supposed to be allowed in the record books.

That's not true, the border for a blacktail to be considered a blacktail, at least in the mid-valley area is the National forest boundary. I killed a blacktail east of I-5 but on Weyerhauser land this last year that made P&Y. The measurer asked where exactly I killed it cause anything east of the NF boundary wouldn't be considered for a columbian blacktail. Maybe B&C is different?

[ehunter]

Yes and mule deer can breed with whitetail too.

[Eagleclaw]

Originally Posted by Mossyhorn

That's not true, the border for a blacktail to be considered a blacktail, at least in the mid-valley area is the National forest boundary. I killed a blacktail east of I-5 but on Weyerhauser land this last year that made P&Y. The measurer asked where exactly I killed it cause anything east of the NF boundary wouldn't be considered for a columbian blacktail. Maybe B&C is different?

[Dave Smith]

I have recently got back into deer hunting and am soaking up as much information as possible. I keep hearing about these mythical "benchlegs", but nobody seems to have a picture of one. Can anyone explain why a cross between two long-legged deer would produce offspring with short legs?????????????
I believe that a blacktail and a mule deer can and do breed together and can even produce fawns- I think a rutting buck will breed any doe as long as she's semi willing, and the "plumbing" all lines up . The big questions are: do the fawns survive? are they fertile? do they grow big, or just survive (if they don't grow big, they don't get to breed much).
Here, I believe, is the biggest question of all: after MILLIONS of years of the two sub-species SEPERATING from each other, so much so that they BECAME two, distinct sub-species, how ON EARTH can we possibly believe that in the short, blink of an eye time that we have been watching these deer, that they are magically blending BACK TOGETHER?????
If mule deer and blacktails were successsfully cross-breeding, how many generations would it take to revert back to just ONE species??? NOT MANY!
Think about domestic dogs: all one species, carefully bred by human intervention to create hundreds of "breeds" (not species- there is no evidence, yet of any species transformation of any animal, though it is generally believed that it had to occur because the only alternative is creation theory and most scientist are forced to rule that out without investigation- he he). If you take human intervention out of dog breeding and just let every dog, everywhere interbreed, you would QUICKLY be back to just one breed.
Nothing in the geography of the mule deer and blacktailed-deer's habitat has changed to force a remix. They are still seperate and in the process of seperating. That slight overlap in summering and wintering ranges has been there throughout their evolution and adaptation and seperation.
The whole idea of deer in this area or that area having a little more "Sitka blood" or "Mulie blood" in them as a generality is impossible for deer that have been seperating for millions of years.
Dave Smith

[chukarchaser]

They DO cross. There have been dna samples that have confirmed hybrid genotypes. I've also read that a telltale sign of a "benchleg" is a black skunk stripe down the middle of the tail. Not sure about this though.

CC

[ommedia]

Many in the record book industry believe, and have studies that show, that the Mule Deer is a product (over centuries) of a Blacktailed Deer and a Whitetailed Deer.

Deer do cross breed. Some cross attempts are more successful than others. But, scientifically, over LONG periods of time, issolated species of deer start to take on physical characteristics (semi-genentics) of their own (some call that evolution). So the theory goes....there once were blacktailed deer and whitetailed deer. Over time, the northwestern most isolated blacktailed deer evolved into what we know as "Sitka" blacktail. The Southwestern most issolated whitetailed deer evolved into what we know as "Coues" (pronounced "Cows") whitetail. And the Northwestern most issolated whitetailed evolved into what we know as "columbian" whitetail.

Somewhere along the lines, the blacktailed deer met up with the whitetails and the offspring evolved into what we know as the "Mule" deer. I'm sure climate changes over thousands of years affected the evoluation/adaptations and, at times, further segregated the different sub-species of deer.

We are fortunate enough to live in a state where you can harvest 4 of the 5 different sub-species of North American Deer.

The only real true way to tell the "genetic" difference is by DNA. However, as a measurer, anything that scores over 160" and I want to see a field photo and I need you to tell me exactly where it was killed. For P&Y and B&C the boundaries for deer (blacktail vs. mule deer) is not exactly simple. It involves the national forest boundary (which changes over time) for good length of the state, but then waggles a bit more SE the closer you get to Medford. I think I put a post on the "From the Record Book Forum" reguarding this. The Oregon Record Book (and Washington) seek to recognize those bucks that lie between the boundary and the Pacific Crest Trail because the director knows from very detailed research that any buck that lives on the West side will generally be smaller (in rack formation), when mature, than one that lives on the East side of the state. Because of this, may bucks in the "benchleg" cloud get overlooked/unrecognized. Hence the Cascade Blacktail categories.

I could go on to give you more example with elk as well, but that's another thread.

[dfontana]

Natural Selection is defined as differencial reproductive success resulting from interaction between individuals and their environment. Dave brings up an excellent point with the logic that deer have evolved into to seperate types for reasons beyond our control. The advantageous traits of both the mule deer and blacktail have been naturally selected for in there own respective environments. Sure, I'll grant you that there are instances when cross-breeding occurs, I'll even grant you that the offspring survived. However, the individual succeeding and then reproducing, is extremely rare at best. The environment dictates that Blacktail thrive here, while mule deer thrive to our east. A hybrid would lack those certain advantageous traits needed to thrive, and consequently never survive. Thus we have two sub-species and thats the way it will remain.

I apologize if I was a little redundant, just wanted to make it as clear as possible.

DFontana

[Dave Smith]

Originally Posted by dfontana

Natural Selection is defined as differencial reproductive success resulting from interaction between individuals and their environment. Dave brings up an excellent point with the logic that deer have evolved into to seperate types for reasons beyond our control. The advantageous traits of both the mule deer and blacktail have been naturally selected for in there own respective environments. Sure, I'll grant you that there are instances when cross-breeding occurs, I'll even grant you that the offspring survived. However, the individual succeeding and then reproducing, is extremely rare at best. The environment dictates that Blacktail thrive here, while mule deer thrive to our east. A hybrid would lack those certain advantageous traits needed to thrive, and consequently never survive. Thus we have two sub-species and thats the way it will remain.

I apologize if I was a little redundant, just wanted to make it as clear as possible.

DFontana

A very good explanation. I think blacktails are generally larger in the Cascades simply because natural selection has chosen the ones that could survive in the the harsh environment. A deer's body is just a means for DNA to reproduce itself . A selfish gene can't accomplish it's "goals" with a hybridized body ( I am half serious but half kidding about this example- like I've always said: study evolution a little and you'll become a Darwinist, study evolution alot and you'll become a creationist- he he)
Dave

[cooky]

Yes, they hybridize. It has also been documented that white tails and mule deer hybridize. The latter is likely rarer than the former. In both instances the offspring are not sterile.

[Catch 22]

Mule deer are crosses of Whitetails and Blacktails. That's why they're called "Mule" deer (as in a crossbreed, think horses and donkeys). They're geographically located between Blacktails and Whitetails. It's kinda simple when you think about it.

Here's the Kicker!

They occured from crossbreeding! Why would there be some genetic mutation if they continued?


Great post Ommedia!

[Dave Smith]

Originally Posted by Catch 22

Mule deer are crosses of Whitetails and Blacktails. That's why they're called "Mule" deer (as in a crossbreed, think horses and donkeys). They're geographically located between Blacktails and Whitetails. It's kinda simple when you think about it.

Here's the Kicker!

They occured from crossbreeding! Why would there be some genetic mutation if they continued?


Great post Ommedia!

It's not quite THAT simple- if a blacktail and a whitetail successfully breed right now, the offspring is nothing like a mule deer

[Eagleclaw]

Originally Posted by Dave Smith

It's not quite THAT simple- if a blacktail and a whitetail successfully breed right now, the offspring is nothing like a mule deer

you mean to tell me the offspring wouldn't be a big bodied wide antlered Monster Mulie

[Adjhunt]

Originally Posted by Dave Smith

It's not quite THAT simple- if a blacktail and a whitetail successfully breed right now, the offspring is nothing like a mule deer

That's true.

Mule deer did not get their name from being a whitetail/blacktail cross (which they aren't), but because of their large mule-like ears.

[Adjhunt]

Originally Posted by Eagleclaw

you mean to tell me the offspring wouldn't be a big bodied wide antlered Monster Mulie

nope it could be a doe!

[Eagleclaw]

Originally Posted by Adjhunt

nope it could be a doe!

She'd still be bigger than most blacktail bucks.. it all frys up the same... tasty

[Adjhunt]

Originally Posted by Eagleclaw

She'd still be bigger than most blacktail bucks.. it all frys up the same... tasty

haha for sure!

[spottedhawk36]

Go down south into the keno unit you will see blacktails and mule deer together so yes i am 100% positive they do cross breed.

[Dave Smith]

Originally Posted by spottedhawk36

Go down south into the keno unit you will see blacktails and mule deer together so yes i am 100% positive they do cross breed.

[oregonoutdoors]

Chris, Here is a buck from the Rogue unit that I believe has some muley in it. I have spent some time hunting the Rogue unit and the deer are definitely different in looks and behavior than the bucks I hunt around the Eugene area, or the coast. Basically they are different than anywhere I have hunted blacktails, looks and behavior. - Ian

[speedshooterxt]

Originally Posted by oregonoutdoors

Chris, Here is a buck from the Rogue unit that I believe has some muley in it. I have spent some time hunting the Rogue unit and the deer are definitely different in looks and behavior than the bucks I hunt around the Eugene area, or the coast. Basically they are different than anywhere I have hunted blacktails, looks and behavior. - Ian

thats a dandy buck,
my thoughts on why they are different in looks, antler size, and color is because of there feed, location, exposure to different elements.
I dont doubt that they might go through the act of trying to breed, but I do doubt that they will have a fawn at all, and if they do, I wonder how healthy the yearling would be.

I do not think that you can say a deer is a certain species by any antler size or configuration.

Coloring changes in blacktails changes on location....high cascade bucks have more of a tendency to be dark than that of a valley buck or that of a southern oregon buck that is exposed to more sunlight and heat.

Has any of you guys ever seen a Mule Deer with a double white patch??? why would that trait not happen when(if) there was ever a true cross???

[speedshooterxt]

one thing I look at is the big differences in whitetail deer.

The size of a whitetail buck in Tennessee is very very very far from that of a saskatchewan whitetail that lives in sub 0 climate and needs more body fat reserve to survive the long winters. I think its the same in blacktails as far as the area they live in.....thats why we have so many varieties and thats why the blacktail and mule deer living in the same area have similar traits. Not because of cross breeding.

[speedshooterxt]

Originally Posted by dfontana

Natural Selection is defined as differencial reproductive success resulting from interaction between individuals and their environment. Dave brings up an excellent point with the logic that deer have evolved into to seperate types for reasons beyond our control. The advantageous traits of both the mule deer and blacktail have been naturally selected for in there own respective environments. Sure, I'll grant you that there are instances when cross-breeding occurs, I'll even grant you that the offspring survived. However, the individual succeeding and then reproducing, is extremely rare at best. The environment dictates that Blacktail thrive here, while mule deer thrive to our east. A hybrid would lack those certain advantageous traits needed to thrive, and consequently never survive. Thus we have two sub-species and thats the way it will remain.

I apologize if I was a little redundant, just wanted to make it as clear as possible.

DFontana

This is a good post.

[Mossyhorn]

Originally Posted by speedshooterxt

Has any of you guys ever seen a Mule Deer with a double white patch??? why would that trait not happen when(if) there was ever a true cross???

Yes I have seen a mule deer with a double throat patch, I killed him in 2005. A nice 22" 4x5 in NE Oregon.

[B.J. Lilly Hunter]

There was an article in the OHA magazine a while back about benchlegs. It had pictures that showed alleged bench legs with the black stripe and tip on their tail, unlike a blacktail with a an all blacktail, or a mule deer with just the black tip.

[Dave Smith]

Originally Posted by speedshooterxt

one thing I look at is the big differences in whitetail deer.

The size of a whitetail buck in Tennessee is very very very far from that of a saskatchewan whitetail that lives in sub 0 climate and needs more body fat reserve to survive the long winters. I think its the same in blacktails as far as the area they live in.....thats why we have so many varieties and thats why the blacktail and mule deer living in the same area have similar traits. Not because of cross breeding.

One thing to keep in mind is that there are over thirty sub-species of whitetailed deer. How many sub-species of blacktails?? Who knows? It would take someone to actually take the time and effort to classify them and sort them out. Consider white-cheeked geese: curently classified into 12 sub-species (unless you divide them once again into "canada" geese and "cackling" geese), of which one is extinct. Many ornithologists insist that there are actually 22 subspecies of white-cheeked geese and they might be right (for example, Dusky canadas geese, by suggestion, would now be divided into four sub-species). Could the deer in the Rogue unit have distinct, genetic traits related to exposure to that environment? I should hope so. They might even be able to be classified as an isolated breeding group or sub-species (which still makes them a black-tailed deer)While no one has proven the theory of evolution from molecule to man, there is no question that existing species adapt physiologically to their environment.
I think everyone is on track by asking the questions about the health, vigor, and fertility of the off-spring, as there is almost no question that some cross-breeding occurs.

[ScottyG]

I hunt the Nile unit up in Washington, on the east slope of the Cascades. We get every imaginable tail color configuration and ear length can very greatly. The deer have many different variations of body color also. The antlers configuration on mature deer can have tighter blacktail like baskets and can have wide and tall configurations more like the classic mule deer. At maturity, bucks seem to attain all different body sizes and leg length. Its the East Slope of the Cascades, so they are called mule deer but I'd say they have more blacktail blood in them. These deer look nothing like the mule deer that I've hunted just a little further east in Washington. I'd also say that other areas that I've hunted, further east and on the west side of both Washington and Oregon, seem to have a more homogenous size and look to the mature deer. While I've not done any scientific study, my observations tell me that within the Nile unit at least the deer herd has been cross breeding for a long time and those offspring are successfully breeding. I guess you could call it a subspecies, but I don't know that you could determine whether its a subspecies of mule deer or blacktail deer without a DNA test.

[Charlie Storey]

For what its worth I've heard that when mulies and whitetails cross-breed the offspring can't run away from danger because they can't make up their mind to run like a mulie or a whitetail so they end up just stumbling around. I've wondered why whitetails and mulies don't interbreed the way that blacktails and mulies do. In Montana they live side by side and I've never seen and not heard of any hankie pankie.

[OR_Bo_Huntr]

I would argue mine is a hybrid
He ears arent muley size, double throat patch too, two pics....

[SteelheadDC]

I wonder if those blacktail know their not supposed to step across the PCT. The whole eastern slope is cross bred. I dont think it will take long for the Merriams in the Gorge to start cross breding with the Eastern variety in Western washington.

[fergy61]

Originally Posted by B.J. Lilly Hunter

There was an article in the OHA magazine a while back about benchlegs. It had pictures that showed alleged bench legs with the black stripe and tip on their tail, unlike a blacktail with a an all blacktail, or a mule deer with just the black tip.

I read that article. There were some really good pics in it of benchlegs that I would like to post....if I still had that article I've seen the pictures & there's no doubt about it. They are blacktail mulie hybrids. The tail really gives them away.

[collinsdp]

First of all mule deer are not a result from black-tailed and white-tailed deer breeding. Black-tailed deer (Odocoileus hemionus columbianus) are considered a sub-species of mule deer (Odocoileus hemionus) hence the scientific name. Mule deer get there name from their ears. Mule deer and a white-tailed deer cross can make up its mind on when to avoid predation and color variation within and among species is purely genetic and is just considered a phenotypic variation. Ears and metatarsal glands on mule deer X white-tailed deer cross are a good way of telling a these hybrid. Which makes me wonder are shorter legs i.e., benchlegs a sign of hybridization or is it the difference between a columbia black-tailed deer and Sitka black-tailed deer. Just my two cents, my experience is from my time in western texas where mule deer and white-tailed deer coexist and at times interbreed.

The natural selection arguments are very well written but consider the ecotones where black-tailed and mule deer habitat meet. There is no defined line where black-tailed deer in the west and and mule deer in the east just stop. In these ecotones the species are more then likely going to intermingle allowing for hybridization to possibly occur. Just my two cents.

[s20055]

If I was a big mule deer stud buck, I'd chase after one of those cute little petite blacktail does...wouldn't you?

[baltz526]

eastern whitetail plus western blacktail with a million years of natural selection, equal muledeer. genetic tests have proven this, according to the experts. deer range durring the ice ages is what you need to think about, not todays desert envioroment

[Mossyhorn]

Mule and whitetail deer didn't exist millions of years ago.

[lor]

Originally Posted by baltz526

eastern whitetail plus western blacktail with a million years of natural selection, equal muledeer. genetic tests have proven this, according to the experts. deer range durring the ice ages is what you need to think about, not todays desert envioroment

From what I can tell, the information started with a book/article written by a man named Dr. Valerious Geist, I'm not sure of the year it was publish or when the DNA analysis was done. If you read it little futher it says whitetail is the oldest, blacktail branched off, and around 10K years ago mule deer formed being the youngest of the deer species.

It would be nice if another independent study either confirmed or refuted Geist's original assertion.

[Dave Smith]

Originally Posted by collinsdp

The natural selection arguments are very well written but consider the ecotones where black-tailed and mule deer habitat meet. There is no defined line where black-tailed deer in the west and and mule deer in the east just stop. In these ecotones the species are more then likely going to intermingle allowing for hybridization to possibly occur. Just my two cents.

Yeah, it seems like the only slight "barrier" is just the difference in habitat- like blacktails have a preference for the wet side and mulies a preference for the dry side, and where they intermingle, there is some hybridization.

Originally Posted by s20055

If I was a big mule deer stud buck, I'd chase after one of those cute little petite blacktail does...wouldn't you?

Yes, I would- I have seen some hotties- he he. I think a buck would breed anything during the rut, but the does get a slight say in who gets to do her breeding and pheremones come into play that are "supposed" to make an attempt and keeping it within the same subspecies most of the time.

[ommedia]

Best part about open forum is that different opinions get shared about some great topics.

For those who do research, and trust everything they read, verbatim, from Wikipedia, remember it's an "open" community wiki. I could author a page telling you anything until it gets challenged. Heck look up Crane Prairie Reservoir...there isn't anything about it...yet

Google this :"Valerius Geist" deer

This biologist is the "man" when it comes to the subject of deer. A close friend at B&C is also an author and researcher, and he finds Geist's work to be the most revered in the field.

In his words...."In 100 words or less: Whitetails pushed back north into the US and diverged into to distinctly separate populations, one in your area and the other way east. These distinct populations evolved separately, eventually forming something similar to today’s blacktails and whitetails. Then, about 10,000 years ago, when spreading populations clashed along the Rocky Mountain front, the interbreeding formed mule deer. According to Geist, muleys are twice descended from whitetails, the first time when they split, the second time, when they interbred. That’s real shorthand, though. A lot of it was done through mitochondrial DNA."

I can't wait to see a thread about the beloved "Roosevelt's Elk" genetics in Oregon.

[baltz526]

a little factual history of deer in america MILLIONS OF YEARS http://www.thewildlifemuseum.org/sta...m?contentID=39

[lor]

My last question on the Blacktail + Whitetail == Mule Deer.
If this is true, then we should see mule deer traits or actual mule deer west of I-5 in the coast range if its really that easy to produce a muley.

West of I-5 there are populations of both species.
If it was really possible, the Lewis & Clark Expedition should have run into 3 species of deer in Western Oregon.

[baltz526]

millions of years of natural selection created the mule deer, from the whitetail/blacktail mix. not the direct interbreeding last year. time scale is over several ice ages

[Herm]

yes: Mule deer are blacktails

[speedshooterxt]

Originally Posted by OR_Bo_Huntr

I would argue mine is a hybrid
He ears arent muley size, double throat patch too, two pics....

this to me looks like all blacktail 0%mule deer. Nice buck.

[OR_Bo_Huntr]

Originally Posted by speedshooterxt

this to me looks like all blacktail 0%mule deer. Nice buck.

Killed in the Metolius Unit.....with a Muley tag....muley though

[where's your bobber dude]

Does this count as a real question??? Hello.........

[speedshooterxt]

Originally Posted by OR_Bo_Huntr

Killed in the Metolius Unit.....with a Muley tag....muley though

I will have to put a picture of one I killed on here that looks exactly like that one.....although that was the early season it looks like and theres nothing stopping a blacktail from being over there. Mine is a little smaller but everything else is the same.

[Terdog13]

O.K. Boys here's the real deal. Large Mule Deer Buck heads
into the forest has couple drinks from the nearest stream.
As he's carousing about he comes upon a very attractive
Blacktail doe at first he's apprehensive cuzz he's not sure
what the other guys might think, being a gentleman he asks
aren't you a little out of your home area. The beautiful little
doe says "well yes but what does that matter"? Bucks says
good point! Next thing you know he's forking over for breakfast
and twins are in the future? HMMMMM.

The next day he's chattin with a buddy who had a similar experience
with a plump and not quite as attractive Whitetail doe.

Happens all the time.

No there is no hidden subspecies held up in a woodsy hiding place
waiting for man to prove their existence but be sure there are
crossbreeds in many different locals.

My slightly off center

[dfontana]

Originally Posted by collinsdp

First of all mule deer are not a result from black-tailed and white-tailed deer breeding. Black-tailed deer (Odocoileus hemionus columbianus) are considered a sub-species of mule deer (Odocoileus hemionus) hence the scientific name. Mule deer get there name from their ears. Mule deer and a white-tailed deer cross can make up its mind on when to avoid predation and color variation within and among species is purely genetic and is just considered a phenotypic variation. Ears and metatarsal glands on mule deer X white-tailed deer cross are a good way of telling a these hybrid. Which makes me wonder are shorter legs i.e., benchlegs a sign of hybridization or is it the difference between a columbia black-tailed deer and Sitka black-tailed deer. Just my two cents, my experience is from my time in western texas where mule deer and white-tailed deer coexist and at times interbreed.

The natural selection arguments are very well written but consider the ecotones where black-tailed and mule deer habitat meet. There is no defined line where black-tailed deer in the west and and mule deer in the east just stop. In these ecotones the species are more then likely going to intermingle allowing for hybridization to possibly occur. Just my two cents.

Very well said sir, and I would agree that there is inevitably some grey area. However, I believe it will stay just that.

[Mossyhorn]

Originally Posted by OR_Bo_Huntr

Killed in the Metolius Unit.....with a Muley tag....muley though

I would say that looks like a solid Blacktail also. Just cause it was in the metolius doesn't mean it's a muley. I have pictures of a monster blacktail in the city of Klamath Falls, a long way from the Cascade Crest. The buck had a solid black tail.

[sandy77]

Originally Posted by speedshooterxt

This is a subject talked about ALOT at work

Do blacktail and mule deer cross???

Is there such a thing as a Benchleg?

Vote for what you think, and post anythoughts of why you think they do or do not....if you have any REAL study answers please post those as well.

There ARE benchlegs. I've eaten them.