Had enough?

[Pilar]

Is anyone else out there sick of watching gas prices climb daily? What about diesel?

Well for one I am changing my summer plans. I will not be joining the mass holiday weekend migrations. No driving somewhere far away, no random fishing trips to the coast. Staying home and not buying fuel.

What are you doing about the price of fuel? What if we all stayed home and skipped the mass migration?

Would that plan have any impact the out of control rise in fuel prices? It will impact my personal bottom line.

[Eagleclaw]

How much is gas now?? i haven't filled up in a couple weeks. our family has plans for memorial day weekend so it's not going to effect us.

[butwhymalemodels]

I ride the bus to and from work every day and I have noticed a huge increase in the amount of riders in about the last 6 weeks.

Fortunately for me, work pays for an annual pass.

Could you imagine if commodity prices were exploding as gas is currently doing?

[bassettmama]

We are not going anywhere either. We wanted to go to Idaho, but with the price of gas no-go We only hope the prices go down at least a little.

[Newbs]

My wife and I sat down and analyzed our driving habits with the goal of reducing our gas $$$ by 20%. We really had no choice. We simply can't afford to drive...

We've made some adjustments and it really didn't hurt that bad. No, we won't be going anywhere this weekend.

[StickFish]

I hear you loud and clear. In an effort to save money for this summers fishing I've had to curtail other events. For instance I used to go to the gym 4-6 days a week, now only 2 or 3 days a week. I'm having a hard time justifying driving to Woodland every couple weeks to get supplies for my rod building. I also don't just jump in the truck to go get a few nails at Home Depot anymore either - I have to stack up the trips and

We can't afford to get a gas saving car cause I can't trade a gas payment for a gas payment and a car payment. Its not just gas either, groceries are going up.

And to top it off I'm having a real hard time thinking I'm going to Charleston for the OTC this year. Heck I'm just a working guy with 2.3 kids, a dog and a wife who doesn't understand we are out of money cause her debit card hasn't worn out yet.

[Newbs]

Originally Posted by Chrome Bumper

Fuel is still really cheap.

I know that some rationalize that by comparison to the average income....we spent a larger portion of our income on fuel during the gas shortages of the 70's.

But as I recall...the 70's were difficult times as well. I don't see any rational comparison that "fuel is cheap". That's an interesting perspective.

[Herring Problem]

Filled up my mustang for $41.00 for 10.7 gallons. Just my work car.got 27 mpg. that's ok.

Planning one more hali trip this Saturday if weather is good and ocean is nice.
figure this trip will burn about $400.00 bucks in diesel and gas for one days fishing. I will wait for August to come back for halibut and tuna day, by then I bet it will cost $700 for a day to fish.
I'm asking for a $6.00 dollar an hour raise Friday.

[alaskan]

[quote.
I'm asking for a $6.00 dollar an hour raise Friday.[/quote]

Good luck with that. If it works for you I'll fly you up here to negotiate one for me too.

We've already decided that there will be a lot less trips this summer. I'll have to fish closer to home, or not at all some days.

[fishkisser]

Good luck on the raise ...
I have filled the truck and parked it ...
Diesel is up to 4.98 at the ripoff stations now ...
Guess its the float tubes for a while or some trips to the lagoons ....

[69scout]

No matter what, I will not let it deterr me from enjoying my weekends with my family and friends.

Even if it puts a dent in the wallet.

[Pilar]

That's the next chapter of the story. Inflation. You ask for a raise to cover your cost of living .. your company raises prices to cover fuel and your raise and the cycle continues.

Anyone who remembers the gas prices and the first roar of OPEC in the '70's knows this story already.

I'm not missing TUNA! season but everything else is optional so I can afford it.

[Abalone]

G.W. Just sent me $1200.00 to buy gas. That's 300 gallons of gas for free......!

[Chug]

Originally Posted by Eagleclaw

How much is gas now?? i haven't filled up in a couple weeks. our family has plans for memorial day weekend so it's not going to effect us.

$3.82 In Mcminnville, that was this Morning..

I reduced Travels, & buying. $4.00 soon. 3 day's or less.

[Eagleclaw]

Originally Posted by Chug

$3.82 In Mcminnville, that was this Morning..

I reduced Travels, & buying. $4.00 soon. 3 day's or less.

I'll have to fill up the truck and the boat this weekend.. Wow i'll have to look at what gas is going for at Safeway... i have a couple .10 off so i guess now's the time to use them... i'm guessing my truck is going to be right around 110.00 to fill it up and then another 20 to 30 to fill up my boat and extra gas can. I've been riding my bike to work. I guess a added bonus to living in a small town everythings within a couple miles of our house.

[goodkarma]

Definately affecting where we drive and what we drive. Usually we'd be making weekly trips to the coast from the valley and we'd be making 3-4 trips to Sunriver. Now, those trips are cut in half at least and when we go, we take our high mileage, low fun car because the gas bill is 1/2 that of my truck.
I'm riding my bike to work on nice days, that not only helps the gas bill but is pretty good for me personally too. I suppose things like this might be the positive fall-out of the gas prices.
Oh, and I just paid my reservation fee for a "smart car" that might be available in 12-15 months.

[Irish Pennant]

We've been going to Sekiu every Memorial weekend for ever. We are not going this year. Even if we camped in the parking lot it would cost us more this year than last year. One trip to Sekiu is 3 trips to Depoe, if I pay for it all, 7 trips to Depoe if I split the cost. I'll save my money for TUNA BUTTS and the OTC.

[One Eyed Jack]

I put a 170gal of gas on in about 1/3 so it wouldn`t hurt as bad.And haven`t been out yet.This weekend it`s off to Red Bluff to the boat drags.The oldest drives a blown alcohal flat bottom.Glad I`m not paying his fuel bill.When I get back its time to burn some of mine

[negoc8]

We are headed out for the holiday weekend. Driving the Accord, leaving the truck, dogs, mini bikes, camper, DVDs mp3's, game-boys etc, etc at home.
I like to call it low impact camping. Mushroom hunting, fly fishing and plain old family conversation around the fire. Kinda like when I was a kid back in the seventies and the economy was in the tank? Hey wait a minute, that was kinda fun, if I remember right?

[CATCH AND EAT]

splashed the boat this weekend and brought the truck home. Most likely will take the truck back to the beach this weekend and leave it there for the summer. At 18 to 19 miles per gallon I cannot afford to drive it this summer and drive the boat too. Something has to give. May end up parking the boat too if things get further out of hand.

[Eagleclaw]

Originally Posted by negoc8

We are headed out for the holiday weekend. Driving the Accord, leaving the truck, dogs, mini bikes, camper, DVDs mp3's, game-boys etc, etc at home.
I like to call it low impact camping. Mushroom hunting, fly fishing and plain old family conversation around the fire. Kinda like when I was a kid back in the seventies and the economy was in the tank? Hey wait a minute, that was kinda fun, if I remember right?

I use to love to camp like when i was a kid...

[Chrome Bumper]

Fuel will be getting more expensive until we find a replacement(s) for petroleum and develop it/them.

It seems like the people who most want small government complain loudest when exposed to open market pricing

[roguesteelheader]

I sold my pride and joy 00 Jeep TJ on Saturday and we bought a little 07 Ford Focus for our main driver. My new Tundra is parked as is my Suburban. We will not be going anywhere this summer or the near future it's just to spendy. We will just do day trips to fish locally with the drift boat and not very often.

[Chrome Bumper]

Originally Posted by Newbs

I know that some rationalize that by comparison to the average income....we spent a larger portion of our income on fuel during the gas shortages of the 70's.

But as I recall...the 70's were difficult times as well. I don't see any rational comparison that "fuel is cheap". That's an interesting perspective.

There was a lot more oil in the ground 35 years(more supply) ago and the demand was much lower(lower demand).

So the price in man hours per gallon for the average income American has the potential to make the shortages of the 70's seem like the good old days.

There are some great deals on big sail boats right now. Even if you don't sail their displacement hull design makes them fuel efficient and they have pretty good range and enough speed to troll for TUNA! I for one enjoy cruising at night to move into the TUNA! ground.

[wsuweston]

Selling my boat and 2 trucks and buying a moped for my around town errands. 120 MPG sounds mighty good during the summer. Bought a pontoon boat that will fit in the car. Good to go for awhile.

[Bait Bucket]

Try surviving on a fixed income......

[Half fast Toyn]

Still way too many 4 door cars zippin by with one passenger as people commute 30 miles to work. Cant be all that bad.......

[Stymulator]

avgas is getting out of sight also, depending on remoteness of the strip , friends have paid 7.25 recently. We're still using from our bulk tank we filled last year...but that won't last the summer.. Then??????

[Thumper]

Current "inflation" is running at the annual rate of 3-4%, about the same rate as seen in 2006 and 2000.

By "inflation" in the U.S. is meant "core inflation".

There are, however, many different definitions of inflation. In recent years, the Bureau of Labor Statistics and the Fed have selectively emphasized one version, this so-called core inflation. Core inflation is the statistic that excludes costs of energy and food.

Therein lies the problem.

[scottishsetter]

I just Paid $4.59 for diesel at the best of the neighborhood stations(I checked 3 before I 'Got it.')
Wish VW could import the Diesel Lupo delivery vans at 70mpg they would be a hit with my needs.
NOW would be a good time to Let Them In.

[jokester]

I haven't totally parked my truck yet, but it sits a LOT more than what it used to.

At ~29 MPG, the wife's car gets most of the work nowadays...

-jokester

[Queeg]

don't buy food or any other goods that have been transported, either.

Hey if enough of us do absolutely nothing for long enough, the price of everything will go down!!

[garyk]

Originally Posted by Thumper

Current "inflation" is running at the annual rate of 3-4%, about the same rate as seen in 2006 and 2000.
By "inflation" in the U.S. is meant "core inflation".
There are, however, many different definitions of inflation. In recent years, the Bureau of Labor Statistics and the Fed have selectively emphasized one version, this so-called core inflation. Core inflation is the statistic that excludes costs of energy and food.
Therein lies the problem.

Very, VERY true.

Since about the LBJ administration, what's included in the "official" version of inflation has been continually re-defined........ so, Thumper, please share with us what the true rate of inflation actually is, as experienced by the typical American family -- (I'll give you first crack at it!)

[boatman]

As long as we only want to import all of our oil supply instead of drilling,LOOK OUT. If I had all the marbles I would charge what the market will bear.

[Hunt'nFish]

I know it's insane!
When I graduated from college and took my current job, I made ~10.8gal of gas per hour.
Today I make ~5.4gal/hr.....now I make 1/2 what I used to.
Since the price of everything is tied to the cost of fuel...Now, how far do you think my paycheck goes???
Every year it seems I slip farther and farther behind.

I'm thinking about quitting my job, putting my family on welfare & the Oregon Health Plan and mowing lawns for cash. I think I might do better.
Hunt'nFish

PS: and now my employer is communicating this is a pretty tough year for us and I shouldn't expect much of a raise. Gee I don't recall getting a decent one last year...or the year before. I guess a guy has to take another job offer to realize a market correction.

[scottishsetter]

In Europe every year they have a Miles per 4Liters AND Miles per 3Liters contest.
Do a search !

[BalouSC]

I picked the right time to duck out of the country thats for sure!! I will be back in August for a month and am dreading filling the truck and boat. Going to have to take out a loan to do it!! I am saving quite a bit being over here thats for sure. I haven't bought gas in over 6 months!!! Balou

[Fshklr]

I've started my Tuna fund 2 months ago....I hope to have a reasonable nest egg by July 1st!

[Dave G]

Heck, I had enough two years ago.

[Thumper]

Originally Posted by garyk

Very, VERY true.

Since about the LBJ administration, what's included in the "official" version of inflation has been continually re-defined........ so, Thumper, please share with us what the true rate of inflation actually is, as experienced by the typical American family -- (I'll give you first crack at it!)

It depends. For our family, it is very low, probably about the advertised rate of 2-4%. But I work at home, averaging only about 1,000 miles a month on my 11-yr.-old Expedition. Sooz drives about 50% more than that, still no huge drain.

I hate travel, but have to fly a lot. Fortunately the client covers travel costs.

We have no kids at home and eat relatively little, so food is not much of a factor.

And the budget for major purchases, clothing and medical is low too. Basically we already have "one of each" already.

I pity the poor nuclear family with 2-3 kids, daily commute for both parents, etc.

And my heart really goes out to the single mother trying to raise her brood, frequently without much help.

[Bloom]

Being retired, I'm just glad I don't have to commute to work over some distance. We've cut back on the unnecessary trips and probably won't be making any long trips anytime soon. Luckily, I live 2 miles from the launch ramp. Shorter runs for Rockies is the order of the day and I'm saving my $ for Tuna and 'Butts.

Trimming the fat out of the household budget helps, but it's still a bummer to see diesel at $4.69 a gallon.

[HOOKUP]

A round trip to the estuary from my house is $300 2 tanks of diesel...that is insane!

[bigjake_888]

Gas could be considered cheaper than it was in the year 2000. It just depends on what you are buying it with. Try buying gas with gold. In 1990 you could have got 184 gal of gas with an oz of gold. Today you would get about 240 gal.

I think the problem we are having also has to do with us buying gas with our deflated dollar.

I think another by product of percieved higher gas prices is a reduction is rural home values due to the higher cost of transportation.

[StickFish]

Originally Posted by bigjake_888

I think the problem we are having also has to do with us buying gas with our deflated dollar.

Yep with our economy taking a hit for about a bizillion reasons the dollar isn't done shrinking. Pretty soon though the currency hedgers are going to start trading in the dollar and that will drive up the value.

The one other thing that really chaps my hide is Oregon un-self-serve and $75 limit on the pumps. It takes just short of $100 to fill my tank now so I either get to wait and wait and wait for the attendant a second time, or go and pay inside. Some stations have changed their pumps others have not and they blame the credit card companies

[One Eyed Jack]

I have a silly one.Why don`t` we raise the price on a bushell of wheat every time the price of crud goes up?Am I just cold or what?

[CGRFish]

The comment about wheat prices makes me ponder... Commodity prices have NEVER tracked cost of production. You all know what has happened with diesel prices - ugly to be running tractors all day! Consider having to buy fertilizer - for the same fertilizer, two years ago you could buy it for $325 a ton, and it is projected to be $1,100 per ton this fall, due to both fuel prices and demand driven up by corn plantings for ethanol...

Even though there are some higher commodity prices now, most of the Oregon farmers will not benefit, because they don't grow those crops.

Bottom line, trying to grow our energy, ie ethanol, is not sustainable, and will cause much of american agriculture to suffer significantly... Hmmm, hows this for a healthy america, a bunch of bankrupt farms for producing our food, and total dependence on foreign oil.

[garyk]

Originally Posted by Thumper

It depends. For our family, it is very low, probably about the advertised rate of 2-4%. I pity the poor nuclear family with 2-3 kids, daily commute for both parents, etc.
...

Correct, it does depend on many variables.

However, for the 'average' family you mention, living in an "average-cost" area, living an 'average' lifestyle, their actual, true, realized inflation rate seems to be in the range of 10% to 13%.

What I find most scary is that real inflation is eroding the value of 401k-type retirement plans that everyone is depending on. These plans are not providing the 'true' returns called for in the retirement models. Add it up:

Earnings <minus account fees> + <minus inflation> =

[OutdoorBum]

Originally Posted by garyk

Correct, it does depend on many variables.

However, for the 'average' family you mention, living in an "average-cost" area, living an 'average' lifestyle, their actual, true, realized inflation rate seems to be in the range of 10% to 13%.

What I find most scary is that real inflation is eroding the value of 401k-type retirement plans that everyone is depending on. These plans are not providing the 'true' returns called for in the retirement models. Add it up:

Earnings <minus account fees> + <minus inflation> =

No doubt about that....hence the case for active vs. passive account management. Not advocating day trading, just saying prudent sector selection can augment returns in a down or sideways market like now. PM me and I can give you some ideas about increasing the "earnings" variable in that account, because your two deductions are all too real....

[MattPark]

It won't change my plans, it will only make them cost more. I will try to make sure I fill the boat with guys for every trip to the coast.

Fuel prices are one of the many things I have no control over. Complaining definitely won't help.

[xdynamite]

Originally Posted by MattPark

It won't change my plans, it will only make them cost more. I will try to make sure I fill the boat with guys for every trip to the coast.

Fuel prices are one of the many things I have no control over. Complaining definitely won't help.

What will help? Being ok with it definitely won't help either.

[MattPark]

Nothing you or I can do will change anything. Your choices are to buy it, or not to buy it. Pretty simple.

[Bluto]

We are driving the ChevHD, towing the 7x14 Interstate trailer from the Couve to Nashville, TN around the 17th of Next month (relocating). Let's see... she's getting around 15mpg (at best) driving that non-aerodynamic flat nosed trailer 2,500mi. And with diesel in the high 4's a gallon... it is just depressing to think about. Can't beleive I let the wife talk me into driving. Something to keep my mind occupied on the drive I guess so the dogs in the back seat don't drive me nuts.

[Phil Layer]

Years ago, a friend of mine from Sweden visited me here. I picked him up at the airport in my motorhome and we went to the gas station where I proceeded to pump about 80 gallons of gas into the motorhome. I paid and he commented that a fill-up in Sweden of his Saab would cost more than all the gas I just bought.

A couple years later, I visited Sweden and discovered there was not a lot of driving going on. Time to go to the market? Get out the bikes. Time to go to the pub? Get out the bikes.

Downtown, there would be hundreds of bikes parked outside stores. Very old people could be seen peddling around town. On very rare occassions, we would jump in the car for a "special" trip. It was a real eye opener for me and a real shock to my out of shape body back then.

Very few large cars and hardly any non-commercial trucks were driven in Sweden. I did see some camping trailers but they were all small and could be pulled behind smaller cars. I don't think I ever saw a motorhome there. And, although I was on the coast (not a port city, however), I saw no fishing boats. My friends there are not fishermen so they could not share any insights but I got the distinct impression there was not a lot of sport fishing outside of stream fishing for salmon.

I found similar economics at play when I visited France and Germany.

Are we headed in that direction? I fear we are. I hate the doom and gloom scenario but at some point, like Europeans, we probably will not be able to afford to tow big boats and burn big boat "petrol".

On the bright side, most Swedes are in good shape - I suspect from all the bike riding and walking they do. Pollution is relatively under control, too. On the not so bright side, there is a problem throughout the country of excessive drinking. I suspect it is caused by the inability to afford to do much else.

My plan - enjoy it while I can but don't expect my son to be excited when I hand him down the Ford with the 460; the camper that rides on it and the boat that follows behind it.

[Abalone]

Other countries aren't experiencing higher fuel cost like we are:

Found this article today and it's the best to explain the gasoline situation.

Long read:

How high will fuel prices go? 5-23-2008

Jim Haughey , Reed Construction Data
What do you think?

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Diesel and gasoline prices are likely to rise as much as $0.20—0.30 more into June before any price rollback occurs. Gasoline prices are already 25% higher than a year ago and diesel prices are up 45% over the last year. The real price for both fuels, after adjusting for inflation, is the highest ever, recently surpassing the previous record price level in the early 1980’s. But there is no reason to expect that either fuel will not be available this year or in 2009 to buyers willing to pay the requested price. This is because a shortage of crude oil is only part of the reason for soaring fuel prices.


Four factors contribute to the 2007-08 surge in oil prices.

• First, oil demand exceeded oil supply for the first time in many years, reducing inventory and pushing prices up sharply as always happens in an auction market.
• Second, the exchange value of the $US dollar fell 11% since the beginning of 2007 raising the price of all products whose prices are set in international markets.
• Third, significant environmental costs were imposed on US refiners who then passed as much of the cost as they could onto fuel users.
• Fourth, financial speculators, anticipating rising fuel costs, bought fuel cheap to later sell for a higher price. This process adds to demand as perceived by suppliers and removes some supply temporarily from availability to buyers. The consequence is higher prices.

Note that the environmental cost factor applied only in the US — it did not raise fuel costs elsewhere in the world. Also, the exchange rate impact in the $US worked in reverse in most of the rest of the world where currencies appreciated against the $US. The Canadian dollar, for example, appreciated 15% against the $US since January 2007 giving Canadian fuel buyers a 15% discount instead of the 115 premium US buyers had to pay.
The rise of demand relative to supply is the core problem that significantly contributed to setting off speculation and the decline of the $US. The outlook for the demand supply balance and sufficient inventory to cushion any demand surges is not good. The added demand from China and other rapidly industrializing countries will ebb only slightly in the next few years from the recent their10% annual growth pace. Compare this to the 1-2% rise in oil demand in the US in a good economic year. Transferring manufacturing from the US and Europe to developing countries caused a substantial net gain in oil consumption because these countries use much more oil per dollar of GDP.
However, the supply restraints are just as significant. Over the years we have accepted the nationalization of oil fields and refineries in many countries. Except in the Middle East where the national oil companies hired back the US and European oil companies to manage their oil business, nationalization has set off the gradual decline of oil supply capacity. Oil supplies from Iran, Iraq, Libya, Russia, Mexico and Venezuela are all declining because of poor management of oil fields and insufficient investment in new fields. In addition to this, production has been restrained in many countries because the oil fields are in war zones where the “outs” damage wells and cut pipelines. This list includes Nigeria and other African countries as well the Andes countries in South America. The supply problems are political with no resolution likely soon.
The role of speculative demand is unique. Speculators do not use oil. They do not want it delivered to their office. They buy and hold oil only when they anticipate rising prices. But they will dump their oil holdings when they come to expect steady or falling prices. They have correctly anticipated rising prices in the last year and half, adding as much as $30 the price of a barrel of crude oil. Soon, probably measured in months, they will sell their oil and leave the market when they see better profits opportunities in another commodity.
The retreat of speculators from the oil market is the most likely reason to anticipate falling fuel prices beginning this summer. There will also be a contribution from slowing oil demand growth in Asia as Asian exports to the US suffer during the US recession. There will also be a seasonal contribution. April and May are when US refiners shut down to change over to the long list of environmentally required gasoline blends mandated in different parts of the US. This is a very expensive process which significantly cuts fuel supplies for an extended period.
Contractors and shippers should expect fuel prices to be declining from the 4th of July to Thanksgiving but this will only bring gasoline down at most to $3.00/gal and diesel to $4.00/gal. The new supplies or demand reductions needed to reestablish generous oil inventories are not in sight for the next few years.

[crabbait]

Originally Posted by boatman

As long as we only want to import all of our oil supply instead of drilling,LOOK OUT. If I had all the marbles I would charge what the market will bear.

We produce over 40% of the oil we consume. Of course we are paying OPEC prices for our own oil, but that's fair, right?

Originally Posted by Thumper

I pity the poor nuclear family with 2-3 kids, daily commute for both parents, etc.

And my heart really goes out to the single mother trying to raise her brood, frequently without much help.

Ah, heck, Thump, just tell them to buy oil stocks and kick back!

On second thought, the oil companies were operating at a tidy profit when oil was $26 a barrel and cost $1.00 at the pump. Now that crude is $130 a barrel and prices edge over $4.00 a gallon, they can't seem to make more than 10% profit even thought their costs for domestic oil are basically unchanged. Eventually, they are going to run short on smoke and mirrors but not anytime soon I imagine.

[HuntnCoug]

I just drove the Alcan last week, From Everett, WA to Valdez, AK was 600 dollars and it was 2300 miles. We were driving a new Toyota Tundra and gas along the way was up to 1.50 per litre.